• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Final Fantasy XII (PS2) is still a gorgeous game

Shepard

Member
Mar 11, 2011
4,524
0
0
Could somebody explain the quickenings to me? They are part of the game that I just didn't get. The game seemed to build itself around a believable and grounded world that followed its own rules, but then the characters were suddenly able to just shoot laser beams and hurl death orbs all over the place. Was it just a gamey super move to make battle more interesting, or was there a story reason why that sort of thing was possible? I mean, even in the intro tutorial area, nobody seems to bat an eye when it happens right in front of them.
I guess just super moves, like VII's limit breaks. I don't think they are tied to the story.
 

Red

Member
Feb 16, 2008
23,704
2
0
I remember a lot of criticism leveled at this game on release but am glad to see memories of it (at least in this thread) are mostly positive. Similar thing happened with FFIX, my other favorite Final Fantasy.
 

DJIzana

Member
Jan 25, 2012
7,061
0
0
Vancouver, B.C.
FFXII is, without a doubt, my favorite mainline entry of the Final Fantasy series. I absolutely LOVE the Ivalice universe. I think the only negative thing about XII is really how certain areas lack color. It's very brown in a lot of areas. Even the green areas look.... very brown-green but that's just one very minor element to a veeeeeeeeeeeery amazing game.
 

KojiKnight

Member
May 24, 2012
20,246
8
630
I really cant understand this type of complains. The battle system is basically the same of Baldur's Gate/Dragon Age and I don't see this kind of criticism towards those games. Also, you can issue every single command in battle, if you want: if you think this is slow, well, that's how the older final fantasies played before XII. If people think FFXII is automated, God forbid them from playing XIII.
I can only speak for myself, and yes it is similar to BG and DA... and yes I don't like the combat in them either. And yes, FFXIII is far worse and it's easily amongst my top complaints for that game... so yeah you're kind of confirming my stance further :)

Though I guess finding gambits so you can program your own party AI is... err... neat?
 

Fbh

Member
Dec 6, 2013
14,516
9,171
960
Yeah the technical side was VERY impressive for the Ps2. You have to hand it to Square, when they really want to they are great on the technical side of things.

But I remember not liking the game that much, mostly because I didn't really like anyone other than Balthier. You'd think that after Tidus the next main character can only be better, then we get Vaan, and then Lightning, and then Serah, and then One Direction.

Still, I'd be more than willing to give this a second chance if we ever get a remaster. While I disliked the cast, I remember the gameplay being great
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
Jun 6, 2004
28,302
4
1,510
A real showpiece on PCSX2 as well.
Yes, this was my favorite to play for my offline FFXI fix. Playing it in supersampled hd is gorgeous. If they do a remake it better be 60fps. Oh it also has to be international version, they never brought that over.

I can only speak for myself, and yes it is similar to BG and DA... and yes I don't like the combat in them either. And yes, FFXIII is far worse and it's easily amongst my top complaints for that game... so yeah you're kind of confirming my stance further :)

Though I guess finding gambits so you can program your own party AI is... err... neat?
Better than neat, it's awesome (gambits, not the finding them part. That is fixed in the international version I think). Sadly Dragon Age Inquisition dialed back on the complexity of their tactics options found in Dragon Age 2 and it suffered for it. Not only did the game feel more forgiving but to play the way you want required way too much babysitting. Then they screwed up tactical cam options (the pause view where you give detailed commands to the party)... I still play DAI but mainly MP since the game seems to be designed around controlling one character.
 

TheUsual

Member
Dec 10, 2009
2,637
346
960
Its been years since I've last seen or touched this game, and it definitely still looks great.

Guess I will need to see how gorgeous this looks on an emulator.
 

BossDarkseid

Member
Feb 20, 2015
6,630
2
0
London
twitter.com
Did it really sell that poorly that it won't get a remaster? I want to play it.
No, it sold about 5 million.

It's bizzare that when people talk about FF going downhill with X (something I strongly disagree with) XII sells 5 million which is still an amount of sales 90% of games would kill for.

God I just want a 1080p/60fps, AA, IZJS in english version SE...
 

Razmos

Member
Jan 19, 2015
9,008
0
0
Manchester, England
Could somebody explain the quickenings to me? They are part of the game that I just didn't get. The game seemed to build itself around a believable and grounded world that followed its own rules, but then the characters were suddenly able to just shoot laser beams and hurl death orbs all over the place. Was it just a gamey super move to make battle more interesting, or was there a story reason why that sort of thing was possible? I mean, even in the intro tutorial area, nobody seems to bat an eye when it happens right in front of them.
I think there was a story reason, in that the characters gained "Mist Charges" when they contracted with the Espers they beat in battle.

A quickening was the character harnessing the power of Mist through the espers into a super move.
 

KojiKnight

Member
May 24, 2012
20,246
8
630
No, it sold about 5 million.
Which was less than the 6.6 million set by FFX. Heck, lower than the 5.3 million of FFIX

Sales don't indicate whether a game is truly good or not... but it can be a pretty clear indication of a general consensus, especially on long running series where word of mouth is going to be strongest (good and bad).
 
Feb 27, 2014
8,414
0
0
I can only speak for myself, and yes it is similar to BG and DA... and yes I don't like the combat in them either. And yes, FFXIII is far worse and it's easily amongst my top complaints for that game... so yeah you're kind of confirming my stance further :)

Though I guess finding gambits so you can program your own party AI is... err... neat?
I actually loved the gambit system. Sure for mobs it meant walk up and let the AI smack them to death but some of the bosses were pretty fun thanks to it. Sure there may have been less on the spot strategy, but it was about preparing for the battle instead.

One boss in particular seemed impossible to kill even at max level with the best weapons without using an extremely complex gambit and equipment setup that would pull damage of a certain element towards one main character who could absorb a small amount of the damage while the others cast specific buffs and spam heals. This guy was literally shelling out only a few points less than max damage every half a second so to actually work out a gambit system that would allow to survive for more than 2 seconds, let alone win, was extremely satisfying. Just in a different way to most FF games.
 

Red

Member
Feb 16, 2008
23,704
2
0
Basch, Fran, and Balthier were all great characters but I think the criticism of Vaan is overstated. He is boring and formulaic but he is not actively bad, and fades out of the limelight as the game progresses. He functions mostly as a surrogate for the player, and his story eases you into the world. The game until Fran and Balthier are introduced is basically an extended prologue. That may not seem necessary, but FFXII is a relatively complex game and its story is easier to follow once some foundational relationships between classes and factions are established. Playing as Vaan provides a ground-level view of the politics in Ivalice. I'm not saying the story couldn't have been presented a different, more elegant way, but Vaan worked as a way in. He didn't detract, even if he didn't add to or differentiate the context.
 
Sep 16, 2013
1,219
0
0
One of my favorite RPGs of all time. Don't expect an HD announcement at E3, I'd say TGS but they could surprise us seeing as how E3 is where they announced KH3 and rebranded Versus 13.
 

Modest Mauser

Member
Nov 5, 2014
2,553
0
0
I actually loved the gambit system. Sure for mobs it meant walk up and let the AI smack them to death but some of the bosses were pretty fun thanks to it. Sure there may have been less on the spot strategy, but it was about preparing for the battle instead.

One boss in particular seemed impossible to kill even at max level with the best weapons without using an extremely complex gambit and equipment setup that would pull damage of a certain element towards one main character who could absorb a small amount of the damage while the others cast specific buffs and spam heals. This guy was literally shelling out only a few points less than max damage every half a second so to actually work out a gambit system that would allow to survive for more than 2 seconds, let alone win, was extremely satisfying. Just in a different way to most FF games.
I actually liked how gambits let the AI deal with random mobs on its own, it made fighting lower leveled enemies less tedious, but without removing any complexity from the game as you were still setting up everything yourself.
 

Parsnip

Member
Feb 5, 2010
9,228
0
0
Finland
It's the best FF game for me, hands down.
Fun combat, favorite soundtrack, most interesting story, awesome translation (Alexander O. Smith is the best), great cast. I could even tolerate Vaan some of the time.

I'd buy a remaster in a heartbeat.
On PC
 

Bousf

Member
Dec 1, 2014
939
0
0
twitter.com
Kingdom Hearts II sold less than 5 million and still got an HD Remaster (and got its soundtrack reorchestrated plus the content of the FM version brought to EU/AU/NA)

Dragon Quest VIII sold almost the same as FFXII did and DQVIII has jumped all over mobile devices and is now leaping onto 3DS (and who knows what else in the future)

I think FFXII HD is absolutely justified sales-wise. All left to know if whether if SE thinks it's a good idea or not. We may find out as soon as in three weeks.

Also, the gambit system was so fun to mess around with, it made strategy something to be made before combat rather than in the middle of it, it's no less strategic and complex because of that. Also all be said, it was pretty awesome seeing your unbeatable gambit combination obliterate everything around your party xD
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
Jun 6, 2004
28,302
4
1,510
I actually liked how gambits let the AI deal with random mobs on its own, it made fighting lower leveled enemies less tedious, but without removing any complexity from the game as you were still setting up everything yourself.
Yeah, you were still required to respond to stiuations in real time or pausing the action. Good stuff.
 

Ultratech

Member
Feb 27, 2011
19,784
1
610
Texas
Yeah, an FFXII HD would be awesome.

Especially IZJS. (So much better than the original game.)

And really, the Gambit system is not bad.

Wanna set up the game to play itself? Sure, you can do that.
Wanna be OCD about doing commands for every action? You can do that too!

That said, it's pretty neat when you can make a gambit setup that can take care of most situations.
(Or if you do run into something weird, changing gambits isn't too hard anyhow. Luckily IZJS gives you most of them early on.)

FFXII HD Remaster and Valkyrie Profile 2 would make my Decade =D
Indeed.

VP2 would look gorgeous if they went back in and touched it up.

It's already got 1080i, just needs some work to not make it look all stretched out.
 

ehnox

Member
Aug 28, 2014
56
24
345
Brazil
It looks superb on a sony RGB monitor with component monster cable, I love to see the PS2 reaching its boundaries running this game.
 

Elios83

Member
Jun 30, 2004
14,696
449
1,670
No, it sold about 5 million.

It's bizzare that when people talk about FF going downhill with X (something I strongly disagree with) XII sells 5 million which is still an amount of sales 90% of games would kill for.

God I just want a 1080p/60fps, AA, IZJS in english version SE...
That's because FFX was the last main entry in the series to be bought by casuals not really interested in the genre but because of marketing reasons and the mass popularity the series gained with FFVII. You know those people who thought the CG cutscenes and the summons were really cool to look at (lol).
FFXII took a lot of time to be released since FFX and in the meantime those people moved on and were attracted by other series.
Still you're totally right that FFXII sold really well and imo it's one of the best episodes in the series, it got criticized because the characters weren't developed at a personal level (Vaan and Penelo particuarly) and the focus was on the main plot based on politics. But I really liked the mature story and I welcomed the lack of awkward teen drama.

So I really can't wait until they announce the PS4 remaster, the game has such an amazing texture work and so many details which were hidden and buried below the PS2 really low res presentation.
 

Son Of D

Member
Sep 18, 2013
9,299
1
0
Which was less than the 6.6 million set by FFX. Heck, lower than the 5.3 million of FFIX

Sales don't indicate whether a game is truly good or not... but it can be a pretty clear indication of a general consensus, especially on long running series where word of mouth is going to be strongest (good and bad).
Kh2 sold less than FFXII and got a remaster. Different company but DmC got a remaster and I think that barely sold a fifth of what XII sold. You can't use the excuse of "poor" sales to determine why a game shouldn't get remastered.

Also if I recall it came out close to the PS3/360/Wii launches, which wouldn't have helped.
 

Parsnip

Member
Feb 5, 2010
9,228
0
0
Finland
The best part about gambit system is that you can manually take over at any time during combat or, if you are crazy person, disable gambits entirely.
 

KojiKnight

Member
May 24, 2012
20,246
8
630
Kh2 sold less than FFXII and got a remaster. Different company but DmC got a remaster and I think that barely sold a fifth of what XII sold. You can't use the excuse of "poor" sales to determine why a game shouldn't get remastered.

Also if I recall it came out close to the PS3/360/Wii launches, which wouldn't have helped.
But when you're a big company like SE and you have a ton of properties, many of which may be up for future HD edition, it can make the difference between now and possibly never. Especially since remake sales can be rather capricious, especially for games that weren't considered massive hits (regardless of total sales).

I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm not saying a remake won't sell, I'm only saying that SE is run by it's CEOs green lighting projects they believe will get them the most money for their investment and they may not see that in FFXII.
 

fallingdove

Member
Dec 8, 2011
1,613
723
735
Final Fantasy: Record Keeper has put me on a bit of a FF nostalgia binge recently, and reading up about FF III led me to reading about XII, and finally onto watching this video:

Final Fantasy XII: Esper Deathblows
And it struck me how gorgeous this game is, even now. It has definitely aged a bit now, and is showing it. But I am constantly amazed by how good this looked on the PS2.




I honestly find the visuals more appealing than 13 or 15.
And it's not just the graphics either. The character design (except Vaan), monster designs and the world itself were all amazing.

Do you think this game is in need of a current gen remaster like X? or do you think it holds up better and doesn't need it?

Either way a remake would be very cool, perhaps finally giving the west chance to play the International Zodiac Job version.
I would love a remaster. This is one of my favorite entries in the series.

If they could remaster IZJS, fix the inverted camera issue, and give the option to change the party leader while in towns/cities, the game would be close to perfect.
 

rjc571

Banned
Jun 23, 2012
8,106
3
0
I thought it was overshadowed at the time it was released by Valkyrie Profile 2. That game had stunning environments, beautifully rendered and animated character models, and crazy special effects, all while running at 60 fps. Tri-Ace were gods on the PS2 hardware and it's sad to see how far they've fallen.
 

Darknight

Member
Mar 20, 2007
5,477
0
0
Anyone know if they lost the source files for this game? WOuldnt that take them a long time to remaster? Wouldnt they mess up the faces once again?
 

Naked Lunch

Member
Oct 17, 2011
2,285
769
810
The artstyle was like the perfect mix between Final Fantasy and Vagrant Story. By far the best FF game and it needs an HD remaster. One of the few RPGs I like to replay over and over.
 

Squall5042

Member
Apr 16, 2005
2,008
0
1,210
My favorite Final Fantasy - the absolute best battle system IMO. The graphics and environs were just amazing.
 

LiK

Member
Mar 26, 2007
128,989
5
0
MA
twitter.com
Unless you're playing on an emulator, the game is a huge jaggie mess. I tried both CRTs and HDTVs with component on my PS2 and still find the visuals unbearable especially today. A HD remake would be really nice.
 

Synless

Member
May 13, 2007
11,286
274
1,285
Michigan
Which was less than the 6.6 million set by FFX. Heck, lower than the 5.3 million of FFIX

Sales don't indicate whether a game is truly good or not... but it can be a pretty clear indication of a general consensus, especially on long running series where word of mouth is going to be strongest (good and bad).
It was released at the end of the ps2 lifecycle when PS3 and Wii came out. Of course it didn't sell as well.
 

Mar Nosso

Banned
May 19, 2013
723
0
0
Spent 120 hours with it in a very intense love/hate relationship. Still comes to my mind often all these years later. One of the strongest in the series, for all its faults and successes, I can finally admit and recognise.
 

TheUsual

Member
Dec 10, 2009
2,637
346
960
Unless you're playing on an emulator, the game is a huge jaggie mess. I tried both CRTs and HDTVs with component on my PS2 and still find the visuals unbearable especially today. A HD remake would be really nice.
I swear I read a long time ago that to get the level of detail in the game, the game was rendered in half the normal resolution of typical ps2 games at the time.
Not sure though.
 

Darknight

Member
Mar 20, 2007
5,477
0
0
Im sure its gonna be remastered at one point like all their other games. (ports or whatever)

I really hope its for PS4 at least. I never played it but would love to. I have a feeling if they do, its gonna be a cross gen game for PS3 and Vita + PS4. If so they may delay the PS4 version to give it a 60FPS boost and uncompressed original audio.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Feb 14, 2009
56,110
0
800
An HD remake wouldn't fix the combat though...
Which isn't broke and fixes the boring combat of the ATB system by having the ATB system do the work for you. Might as well let the "game play itself" instead of smashing X in menus (oh... sup... FF13 which tried to merge the two ideas) for hours.

Seriously, most bosses were press button for awesome, repeat til boss is dead.
Uh... no they weren't. Definitely not the Hunts past Hunt 20 if that. You can't quickening abuse in Vanilla. Maybe MAYBE in International and that's only with the MP/recharge skill change. But one bar for quickening isn't going to get you much damage.
 

ViciousDS

Banned
Aug 14, 2013
15,103
0
0
I'm not sure how I feel about that zodiac system. Not being able to change a characters job is interesting. At that point they should have just locked characters to a specific job.
 

KojiKnight

Member
May 24, 2012
20,246
8
630
Anyone know if they lost the source files for this game? WOuldnt that take them a long time to remaster? Wouldnt they mess up the faces once again?
I don't think there has ever been an official comment on this... Games from this era were usually backed up and data stored securely though. At least at the big game companies like Square, Nintendo, etc.
 

Glendemonium

Member
Mar 14, 2015
1,846
6
345
Arizona
I've been asking for this since I missed out on the original, my PS2 stopped reading discs at some point when console gens changed. I could of played it on the backwards compatible first gen PS3 but we remember how shoddy PS2 games looked on it.

Also being highly addicted to FFXI was another reason I've never played it. It would literally give me another good reason to get a PS4, unless there's a PC port, which would be wishful thinking.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Jun 26, 2009
23,334
1
1,030
Norway
I'm not sure how I feel about that zodiac system. Not being able to change a characters job is interesting. At that point they should have just locked characters to a specific job.
That's the one change I don't really like about the Japanese version, but they could just put both the regular version and the IZJS version on the same disc and let players choose what version they want to play.

I'd go for the regular version.

Also being highly addicted to FFXI was another reason I've never played it. It would literally give me another good reason to get a PS4, unless there's a PC port, which would be wishful thinking.
I doubt there'd be a PC version. Isn't the PS3/PS4/Vita exclusivity of the KH games and FF X (at least partially) due to SE using some proprietary Sony tools to port from PS2 to PS3/PS4/Vita?
 

Erasus

Member
Nov 7, 2009
4,742
0
0
Sweden
My favourite FF I think.

Amazing on PCSX2, the patched International edition works great. I still havent played that through...

Also being highly addicted to FFXI was another reason I've never played it. It would literally give me another good reason to get a PS4, unless there's a PC port, which would be wishful thinking.
Just emulate it. I doubt square will bust your door down for that.

I would still love a PS3/4/Vita port like FFX!!
Official PC ver would be awesome.
 

ViciousDS

Banned
Aug 14, 2013
15,103
0
0
That's the one change I don't really like about the Japanese version, but they could just put both the regular version and the IZJS version on the same disc and let players choose what version they want to play.

I'd go for the regular version.



I doubt there'd be a PC version. Isn't the PS3/PS4/Vita exclusivity of the KH games and FF X (at least partially) due to SE using some proprietary Sony tools to port from PS2 to PS3/PS4/Vita?
Yes was searching around.... I would follow a huge detailed zodiac guide I found. Basically lists every job and characters for that job from best to worst.
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
after IX my favorite FF title. really screams for a HD remaster...

one day...one day...

I would play a 3rd person shooter/action game ala Tomb Raider 2013 staring these two. They can explore tombs and ruins in search of treasures together.
 

poy1990

Neo Member
Feb 21, 2015
70
0
0
Now if only companies could try to understand that games like this can generate sales. Although I do love how FFXV is turning out I believe, in my opinion, that you don't have to have graphics like FFXV to sell a great game. I believe that they could create a game with the graphic level of FFXII at 1080p 60fps with a solid gameplay mechanic and a great story. Triple A games are not helping developers anymore and I really think if this trend continues more companies are gonna close down or move to mobile. That just my opinion :p
 

Megalosaro

Banned
Aug 19, 2012
12,134
0
0
SoCal
Now if only companies could try to understand that games like this can generate sales. Although I do love how FFXV is turning out I believe, in my opinion, that you don't have to have graphics like FFXV to sell a great game. I believe that they could create a game with the graphic level of FFXII at 1080p 60fps with a solid gameplay mechanic and a great story. Triple A games are not helping developers anymore and I really think if this trend continues more companies are gonna close down or move to mobile. That just my opinion :p
I agree. If you can't make money on a game that sells 1 million copies ou need to dial back. Otherwise your ego is in the way