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[sappyday]

The difference is based on how both directors viewed this character. The original creator who designed the 'dark aesthetic' for him, and the new director, who reinterpreted him entirely.

Nomura's Noctis was a badass who acted cool, and essentially was cool, but didn't feel cool on the inside when push came to shove. He was more emotionally reserved and kept his poker face on, but i doubt there was less emotional stirring in him than what we're seeing here, it would just take more consideration for the player to pick out.

In the 2009 trailer with Stella at the party scene, i was always shocked because you always kind of assumed that Noctis would always be the cool badass guy who never broke from character, but he was very amicable and lighthearted when talking in normal conversation when talking with her, even though he was still reserved to a point.

On the other hand, Tabata's Noctis is more of a teenager in that all of his actions are directly telegraphed to the viewer via him outwardly projecting those feelings, screaming or ranting, or actively showing the viewer his emotions on his sleeve in a far more simple manner. If this was an anime, this is the character people would be complaining about him whining like a little girl throughout these instances.

For me though, again, its just a matter of how the character is interpreted. They are different takes, but i don't think the initial premise of each type of the character is inferior or superior.

I think we've just seen more of him. IMO he's still the somewhat the same as to what Nomura described years ago. http://gematsu.com/2010/08/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-all-the-details-so-far

Everything we've seen him so far in XV has been interacting with the bros. Some of what Nomura said in that interview describes Noctis with his friends such as the calm and confident part. The shy part can been in very small glimpses such as in Brotherhood ep4 where he shys away from talking to the two girls or doesn't talk much to Cindy in the Duscae demo.

We've only seen him interact with Luna as a kid so when he does eventually meet up with her it won't be the same since they haven't seen each other for 12 years. So that version of we see of him in the Stella scene could very well still be there. Just another side of his personality that we haven't seen.

And that's the thing with the Versus stuff. We had very little context on his character besides the scene where he talks with Stella. We all thought he was badass/cool cause of the way he was introduced to us. However, I still think his character hasn't changed much. I can look back at the Stella scene and not feel a disconnect with that Noctis and with the current Noctis.

 

[Aters]

I feel like there are people looking for huge "OMG WTF PLOT TWIST 10/10, 100/100, BEST GAME, BEST GAME" to take the actual story we've seen to the next level in their minds, and i think they are going to be disappointed for the most part.

While i do enjoy those types of games that really throw in a lot of twists and turns and shocking moments(not to be confused with convolution), i think all FF15 really needs to be successful is having a story that generally doesn't collapse on itself. And if having a straightforward story about Noctis ascending the throne, beating the bad guy and protecting the girl, that essentially is all that is neccesary.

I think most of the game will be gameplay segments, off the beaten path optional quests and such rather than story anyways.

Yeah. I just want a road trip with bros with some father and son bits thrown into it. I don't want a plain love story or "deep lore" like FFXIII or "delete your save" kind of crazy shit. I liked that the devs said they took inspiration from The Last of Us. To me TLoU is a great example of straightforward story with feels.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think we've just seen more of him. IMO he's still the somewhat the same as to what Nomura described years ago. http://gematsu.com/2010/08/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-all-the-details-so-far

Everything we've seen him so far in XV has been interacting with the bros. Some of what Nomura said in that interview describes Noctis with his friends such as the calm and confident part. The shy part can been in very small glimpses such as in Brotherhood ep4 where he shys away from talking to the two girls or doesn't talk much to Cindy in the Duscae demo.

We've only seen him interact with Luna as a kid so when he does eventually meet up with her it won't be the same since they haven't seen each other for 12 years. So that version of we see of him in the Stella scene could very well still be there. Just another side of his personality that we haven't seen.

And that's the thing with the Versus stuff. We had very little context on his character besides the scene where he talks with Stella. We all thought he was badass cause of the way he was introduced to us.

In basically every scene he showed no changes, even up to 2013 trailer, he continued to act in that manner. It just so happend that after Nomura left, Noctis started showing all of these outward emotions.

I think its plainly obvious that Tabata changed a lot of things around to suit his own tastes, just like changing Stella to Luna, and Noctis's character was apart of that.

The writers who were previously working on the concept were gone, and the Dissidia 012 writer and Tabata working on the script and characters wholesale full time. Its impossible for them to emulate how Nomura and the other staff originally developed these characters to begin with, nor should they expected to do so.

 

[sappyday]

In basically every scene he showed no changes, even up to 2013 trailer, he continued to act in that manner. It just so happend that after Nomura left, Noctis started showing all of these outward emotions.

I think its plainly obvious that Tabata changed a lot of things around to suit his own tastes, just like changing Stella to Luna, and Noctis's character was apart of that.

The writers who were previously working on the concept were gone, and the Dissidia 012 writer and Tabata working on the script and characters wholesale full time. Its impossible for them to emulate how Nomura and the other staff originally developed these characters to begin with, nor should they expected to do so.

In the Versus XIII 2011 trailer he acts the way he acts in the XV stuff when he's talking with the bros. The only problem is that it was mainly VO except for the last part. I'm pretty sure that Nomura told Tabata and the new writers what traits Noctis have. The writers worked with these traits in their own way but I don't think they've changed it completely.

I'm mainly talking about Noctis. Tabata has changed a lot of things, but Noctis is one of the few things that feel unchanged. He's just now under a different light and is a full fledged character instead of a concept character.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Jesus, the way some people talk about this game it's like Tabata killed they their dogs or something. It's not any worse than the "go fetch these materials for the potion maker" quests in like every game ever. And there's a bit of humor/urgency at the end.

The pacing of the quest is even worst that those, since you have to witness all that bad dialogue in the middle of it.

Sorry is just that bad.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'm mainly talking about Noctis. Tabata has changed a lot of things, but Noctis is one of the few things that feel unchanged. He's just now under a different light and is a full fledged character instead of a concept character.

He was a full fledged character when Nomura wrote his script too for Versus and his original version of 15, they were different interpretations entirely. What your seeing now is the changes.

I don't see why you would think that only now the character is an actual character?

Yeah. I just want a road trip with bros with some father and son bits thrown into it. I don't want a plain love story or "deep lore" like FFXIII or "delete your save" kind of crazy shit. I liked that the devs said they took inspiration from The Last of Us. To me TLoU is a great example of straightforward story with feels.

FF13 didn't have a deep lore, it just had a confusing lore. There's a difference.

Although i will contest your point. Even TLOU had shocking moments and twists in the story, even though it was also essentially a road trip in a way.

I just don't think FF15 will have many of those outside the plot detail that causes the timeskip, and generally speaking,i don't think FF15 needs those kinds of twists either

 

[sappyday]

He was a full fledged character when Nomura wrote his script too for Versus and his original version of 15, they were different interpretations entirely. What your seeing now is the changes.

I don't see why you would think that only now the character is an actual character?



FF13 didn't have a deep lore, it just had a confusing lore. There's a difference.

Although i will contest your point. Even TLOU had shocking moments and twists in the story, even though it was also essentially a road trip in a way.

I just don't think FF15 will have many of those outside the plot detail that causes the timeskip, and generally speaking,i don't think FF15 needs those kinds of twists either

Cause Versus was never complete and XV is complete. To think Nomura had everything finalized but never got to program it is naive.

What changes am I seeing? I've been explaining how I don't see changes but just more of a character. You've only said that "Noctis looks cool but in front of Stella he tries to hide his emotions." That is two thing about his character that are dependent on who he was interacting with and where he was as well. Two things don't make an entire character. Nomura himself described Noctis (but never got a chance to really show it cause Versus was a mess) and I've pointed out how XV shows those traits still in him. The party scene is something we haven't seen current Noctis react to so those traits could be in the game. But as of now he seems loyal to what Nomura described him as, with even more stuff about him we didn't know about cause the game is finally coming out.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Cause Versus was never complete and XV is complete. To think Nomura had everything finalized but never got to program it is naive.

What changes am I seeing? I've been explaining how I don't see changes but just more of a character. You've only said that "Noctis looks cool but in front of Stella he tries to hide his emotions." That is two thing about his character that are dependent on who he was interacting with and where he was as well. Two things don't make an entire character. Nomura himself described Noctis (but never got a chance to really show it cause Versus was a mess) and I've pointed out how XV shows those traits still in him. The party scene is something we haven't seen current Noctis react to so those traits could be in the game. But as of now he seems loyal to what Nomura described him as, with even more stuff about him we didn't know about cause the game is finally coming out.

Not gonna comment on the changes Noctis went between bith games. But Nojima finalized Versus script, so yeah Noctis Versus character was indeed finalized.

 

[Mediking]

Reminder that discussions like these will mostly die when the game releases in a month or so.

Reminder that NoctisVsStar oughta be coming back in a few days or so.... I think.

 

[Aters]

Reminder that discussions like these will mostly die when the game releases in a month or so.

Reminder that NoctisVsStar oughta be coming back in a few days or so.... I think.

Oh trust me, this kind of discussion will pop up even five years after the game is released.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think i will stop for the sanity of the thread

And yeah, these types of conversations will continue i think indefinately, long after the game is out. Its just a consequence of the development of the title having come to this point. No difference from FF12's journey with people still complaining about Matsuno's vision or FF14's journey with people talking about how the first version of the game almost doomed SE itself.

 

[BocoDragon]

Oh trust me, this kind of discussion will pop up even five years after the game is released.

"Argh... I'm still pissed Final Fantasy VII wasn't set in New York with Hot Blooded Detective Joe! The original vision!!!"*

*

Spoiler

I am joking, only because previous versions of FF games were never given trailers and years of publicity to breed a fanbase that NEVER FORGETS.

 

[Rappy]

The pacing of the quest is even worst that those, since you have to witness all that bad dialogue in the middle of it.

Sorry is just that bad.

I'm sorry, but if you found some cliche one liner sayings/idioms with mushroom puns or just a word replaced by 'shroom' one of the most cringeworthy dialogue in the series (that aren't even voiced!), I feel like you haven't played much of the series. And no, the pacing isn't any worse than any of those kinds of quests where you can't/don't already have the items before starting them.

 

[Kuraudo]

Oh trust me, this kind of discussion will pop up even five years after the game is released.

Five years is pretty conservative. People are still complaining about not getting the hookman version of RE4 despite the RE4 we did receive being by anyone's standard a pretty incredible game.

 

[BocoDragon]

Five years is pretty conservative. People are still complaining about not getting the hookman version of RE4 despite the RE4 we did receive being by anyone's standard a pretty incredible game.

I like the analogy. But Versus XIII is like RE4 hookman on 1000000x steroids.

 

[Rappy]

Five years is pretty conservative. People are still complaining about not getting the hookman version of RE4 despite the RE4 we did receive being by anyone's standard a pretty incredible game.

Yep...I can already tell from thousands of posts I've read about this game on this site alone that no matter good or bad XV turns out, Versus XIII will always be brought up. It'll always be "the Final Fantasy that used to be Versus XIII" to some. I recall a certain post saying it's impossible to discuss XV without bringing up Versus XIII. It's entirely possible. People just don't want to let go.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I'm sorry, but if you found some cliche one liner sayings/idioms with mushroom puns or just a word replaced by 'shroom' one of the most cringeworthy dialogue in the series (that aren't even voiced!), I feel like you haven't played much of the series. And no, the pacing isn't any worse than any of those kinds of quests where you can't/don't already have the items before starting them.

The pacing is worst because you have to watch to unfold the event before you, you can't just pick the mushrooms and be done with it. You have to slowly crawl between those awful one liners and prompto catching with the event itself.

And yeah, it conjuction with the very poor thought off quest it comes as one of the worst in the series, at least the "hahaha" was a cutscene.

The only hope is that is just that one, but watching the race with Gladio seems to be norm, than the exception.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

The difference is based on how both directors viewed this character. The original creator who designed the 'dark aesthetic' for him, and the new director, who reinterpreted him entirely.

Nomura's Noctis was a badass who acted cool, and essentially was cool, but didn't feel cool on the inside when push came to shove. He was more emotionally reserved and kept his poker face on, but i doubt there was less emotional stirring in him than what we're seeing here, it would just take more consideration for the player to pick out.

I don't think that's the only facet to Nomura's Noctis. In this 2011 trailer, for example, he's acting expressively bratty and hotheaded.

 

[Gbraga]

He didn't overcome anything in Brotherhood. Brotherhood just showed he is aware of the responsibilities but tries to push them away as much as he can. Mainly cause he knows not only does it bring such a burden on his shoulders, but also cause he'll lose the only life and blood he has. In the actual game that burden has finally come, and it happens so suddenly. He doesn't act like a jerk afterwards. Just frustration, and even then he calms down after the bit, but not all the way and even needs moments to think by himself.


My biggest worry for the story is there isn't much of it in between. I would like to believe the marketing is intentionally hiding a lot of the cutscenes, but we all know it's possible that it isn't.

I'm not concerned about this, personally. With the radio and car interactions, I'm assuming there will be a bunch of story during your travels. That might not be ideal for a lot of people, but it's better than not having anything between each cutscene.

I also consider those events that happen while camping and stuff to be part of the storytelling, without a doubt. Those moments that evoke Brotherhood are very important to build their relationship even further.

I feel like there are people looking for huge "OMG WTF PLOT TWIST 10/10, 100/100, BEST GAME, BEST GAME" to take the actual story we've seen to the next level in their minds, and i think they are going to be disappointed for the most part.

While i do enjoy those types of games that really throw in a lot of twists and turns and shocking moments(not to be confused with convolution), i think all FF15 really needs to be successful is having a story that generally doesn't collapse on itself. And if having a straightforward story about Noctis ascending the throne, beating the bad guy and protecting the girl, that essentially is all that is neccesary.

I think most of the game will be gameplay segments, off the beaten path optional quests and such rather than story anyways.

Agreed. And I mean, it's four friends on a journey with Stand By Me as its theme song, it doesn't get any more "the journey is more important than the destination" than that.

I think we've just seen more of him. IMO he's still the somewhat the same as to what Nomura described years ago. http://gematsu.com/2010/08/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-all-the-details-so-far

Everything we've seen him so far in XV has been interacting with the bros. Some of what Nomura said in that interview describes Noctis with his friends such as the calm and confident part. The shy part can been in very small glimpses such as in Brotherhood ep4 where he shys away from talking to the two girls or doesn't talk much to Cindy in the Duscae demo.

We've only seen him interact with Luna as a kid so when he does eventually meet up with her it won't be the same since they haven't seen each other for 12 years. So that version of we see of him in the Stella scene could very well still be there. Just another side of his personality that we haven't seen.

And that's the thing with the Versus stuff. We had very little context on his character besides the scene where he talks with Stella. We all thought he was badass/cool cause of the way he was introduced to us. However, I still think his character hasn't changed much. I can look back at the Stella scene and not feel a disconnect with that Noctis and with the current Noctis.

I also agree with this. I'm mainly referencing his in-game dialogue from both the 2011 and 2013 trailers. That wasn't very interesting, to me. The Stella scene was great.

In basically every scene he showed no changes, even up to 2013 trailer, he continued to act in that manner. It just so happend that after Nomura left, Noctis started showing all of these outward emotions.

I think its plainly obvious that Tabata changed a lot of things around to suit his own tastes, just like changing Stella to Luna, and Noctis's character was apart of that.

The writers who were previously working on the concept were gone, and the Dissidia 012 writer and Tabata working on the script and characters wholesale full time. Its impossible for them to emulate how Nomura and the other staff originally developed these characters to begin with, nor should they expected to do so.

Noctis having changes to suit his tastes is a given, but I'm not sure I agree with Stella being changed to Luna was just his preference. If anything, keeping Luna similar to Stella was just him feeling external pressure to keep as many similarities to the original concept as possible. I'm sure if it was up to him, he would change the design completely to avoid comparisons.

The leak that mentioned the Versus trilogy gives us a better idea of a reason why Stella was cut. If we believe him and the first game was supposed to be invasion + Stella storyline, the second game Reclaim Your Throne and the third game the Plague of the Stars shit, with each game being around 25 hours, everything suddenly fits.

They wanted to make a single game, they cut the invasion, if they cut Stella as well, that's the first game gone, right here. And when you have reports of this game being 40~50 hours long, and we know for a fact that both the Reclaim Your Throne storyline and at least some of the Plague of the Stars stuff is still present, it all makes sense.

Yep...I can already tell from thousands of posts I've read about this game on this site alone that no matter good or bad XV turns out, Versus XIII will always be brought up. It'll always be "the Final Fantasy that used to be Versus XIII" to some. I recall a certain post saying it's impossible to discuss XV without bringing up Versus XIII. It's entirely possible. People just don't want to let go.

 

[Lavalamp1138]

The pacing is worst because you have to watch to unfold the event before you, you can't just pick the mushrooms and be done with it. You have to slowly crawl between those awful one liners and prompto catching with the event itself.

But isn't that the point of these particular side quests? They are entirely optional and are meant for the player to spend more time with these companion characters and see them interact with Noctis. If you could just grab the mushrooms and skip the interactions, you might as well have not even bothered to do the side quest in the first place.

 

[Ferr986]

Honestly, both Noctis are kind of meh, but Versus Noctis reminds me too much to Squall so XV Noctis wins for me.

At the end, I don't expect the XV story to be amazing or anything like that, but I agree with Gbraga, what I expect, more than a FF story about twists, complicated plotilines and such, it's a good story about 4 friends in a road trip in a semi fantasy world, and how they bonds as friends develops, the wars betweem realms and gods stuff is second stuff for me right now. It's a fresh enough concept to look forward how they implement it.

 

[Gbraga]

Honestly, both Noctis are kind of meh, but Versus Noctis reminds me too much to Squall so XV Noctis wins for me.

At the end, I don't expect the XV story to be amazing or anything like that, but I agree with Gbraga, what I expect, more than a FF story about twists, complicated plotilines and such, it's a good story about 4 friends in a road trip in a semi fantasy world, and how they bonds as friends develops, the wars betweem realms and gods stuff is second stuff for me right now. It's a fresh enough concept to look forward how they implement it.

Yeah, I'm with you. When it comes to "god stuff", what I'm most interested in is the possible crazy optional bosses that might come from this, because I really enjoy the battle system.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

But isn't that the point of these particular side quests? They are entirely optional and are meant for the player to spend more time with these companion characters and see them interact with Noctis. If you could just grab the mushrooms and skip the interactions, you might as well have not even bothered to do the side quest in the first place.

You can pick the mushrooms and have the skit. Done.

 

[DrBretto]

I think its plainly obvious that Tabata changed a lot of things around to suit his own tastes, just like changing Stella to Luna, and Noctis's character was apart of that.

THIS is the kind of thing that makes the Nomura worship toxic. And stay with me here, I'm not trying to be mean. I just want to point out where the problem is. And this is important.

This is a wild assumption, no matter how "obvious" it seems. For one, neither Tabata nor Nomura write the story. They're directors. For another, this is the part people are referring to when they tease people about the Versus stuff not being a fully realized story. They're not just making fun of people filling in the blanks with their own head canon, it's that by the time those clips came out in the first place, there WAS no story to fit them in.

And think about it. With Stella's involvement apparently requiring three separate chapters just to fit in, that means Nojima's attempt to write a story around those clips already failed when it was VS. There's actually no reason not to believe that the story we're about to get is, by and large, pretty close to what the VS story was actually going to be. I contend that most of the VS fans would have been just as disappointed in what VS would have been as well.

But the real issue is that it creates this imbalance. Nomura gets absolved of any wrongdoing, despite being the one responsible for putting together these clips without context and not necessarily being able to put it together. And Tabata becomes a willing scapegoat. Any frustration about the story not being what Nomura got your hopes up to be becomes some whim of Tabata's, apparently for no reason but to piss Nomura fans off. That's just crazy.

I did a lot of research on this. Digging through the documents, it appears that the fundamental transition from Stella to Luna had happened in all but name prior to Nomura's exit. By the time the E3 2013 trailer was cut, the character we now know as Luna was still called Stella publicly (and there are interviews after this trailer with Nomura stating that she was still in-game) but the character was already Luna in every way but name. This change occurred as a result of condensing the story into a single project, which is best for everyone after the XIII saga. All Tabata did was decide to rename her because she was already so different from the false expectations Nomura gave everyone. And instead of blaming Nomura, he took the bullet so the issue would be put to rest. If not for people's inability to let her go.

I really think a lot of you out there are missing out on what looks to be a pretty awesome game because of this. And that's a shame, because I'm quite certain most of you should be about as excited about this game coming out as I am.

 

[Falk]

I think its plainly obvious that Tabata changed a lot of things around to suit his own tastes, just like changing Stella to Luna, and Noctis's character was apart of that.

Sigh, I know I repeat this every time it comes up, but I really have one thing to say in response to this.

Spoiler

"apart" and "a part" mean opposite things

 

[artsi]

Tabata was brought in to finish the other guy's project, on a budget and tight deadline, with extreme pressure to generate sufficient sales. I really, really doubt he had the luxury of changing major elements just because of his tastes.

 

[Gbraga]

Sigh, I know I repeat this every time it comes up, but I really have one thing to say in response to this.

Spoiler

"apart" and "a part" mean opposite things

That's just evil, Falk. Why would you do this?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Tabata was brought in to finish the other guy's project, on a budget and tight deadline, with extreme pressure to generate sufficient sales. I really, really doubt he had the luxury of changing major elements just because of his tastes.

A tight deadline that has been pushed back at needed.

He clearly brought to the project the lead people he wanted, throw to the trash the previous script and using another one penned by a totally different writter, presumably choosen by him.

We can only guess he deemed necesary all this because he wanted to do the XV he realized on his mind, rather than retelling the game Nomura and Nojima had in mind.

 

[DrBretto]

A tight deadline that has been pushed back at needed.

He clearly brought to the project the lead people he wanted, throw to the trash the previous script and using another one penned by a totally different writter, presumably choosen by him.

We can only guess he deemed necesary all this because he wanted to do the XV he realized on his mind, rather than retelling the game Nomura and Nojima had in mind.

That's an awful lot of presuming you're doing there.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

That's an awful lot of presuming you're doing there.

You say that, but you did a lot of fanfiction, right there above me...

 

[DrBretto]

You say that, but you did a lot of fanfiction, right there above me...

I did no fan fiction. I did extensive research.

I came into this after the Stella debacle, and without bias or emotion, I poured through every article I missed to get an accurate timeline. How I described it is how it happened.

 

[Venom Fox]

I did no fan fiction. I did extensive research.

I came into this after the Stella debacle, and without bias or emotion, I poured through every article I missed to get an accurate timeline. How I described it is how it happened.

But you say "this is a wild assumption" and "apparently" a few times... Also after you say you did research you state "it appears", so you've just interpreted this as to what you think it means. Doesn't mean it's fact.

 

[DrBretto]

But you say "this is a wild assumption" and "apparently" a few times...

The person I was quoting made the wild assumptions.

Perhaps I should have said "That" was a wild assumption instead, if it was not clear enough.

 

[Venom Fox]

The person I was quoting made the wild assumptions.

I was just giving my thoughts on your post, mostly because the guy you quoted actually says its presumptions but your post does not.

 

[Ferr986]

Talking about Versus and XV will led to wild assumptions either way.

No one knows much about Versus, who changed shit first and why they did.

 

[LouisaFerre]

A tight deadline that has been pushed back at needed.

He clearly brought to the project the lead people he wanted, throw to the trash the previous script and using another one penned by a totally different writter, presumably choosen by him.

We can only guess he deemed necesary all this because he wanted to do the XV he realized on his mind, rather than retelling the game Nomura and Nojima had in mind.

Nomura was credited as creative producer on pretty much all of the games Tabata directed, and Tabby also co directed KH:Coded. On top of that, Type-Next was also put on hold specifically because of XV. I find it kind of hard to believe that Tabata really made any decisions for the sake of a creative vision instead of just trying to get the game done with the restrictions placed on him by upper management. They needed to scale back the project, so they edited the script to cut out events of the game that would have been too costly to implement, or to cut the story down so that they wouldn't have to do any sequels. I mean, the whole idea of going around and collecting phantom swords, and finding out about the invasion from a newspaper both seem like they were done specifically because they save the team from having to construct more dynamic sequences that would push the game over budget.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I did no fan fiction. I did extensive research.

I came into this after the Stella debacle, and without bias or emotion, I poured through every article I missed to get an accurate timeline. How I described it is how it happened.

Where's the proof that Luna lines and character was already written in 2013?

 

[DrBretto]

I was just giving my thoughts on your post, mostly because the guy you quoted actually says its presumptions but your post does not.

My post is about the toxicity of those presumptions. And attempts to fill in the blanks people are filling in with their emotional responses, with the way the story appears to unfold from an unemotional perspective. That's a very different thing.

 

[DrBretto]

Where's the proof that Luna lines and character was already written in 2013?

The 2013 E3 trailer, where the character that was (at the time) thought to be Stella is clearly in the Luna role. I did make any claims about "lines". I'm referring to the character.

In VS, Stella meets Noctis for the first time as young adults. In the E3 trailer, they clearly meet as kids, as Noctis and Luna have. Already fundamentally different from OG Stella. It had already changed as a result of the switch over to a single story, adapted to be a numbered title.

If you want some speculation, though, I'd say that that scene of them running through the field or whatever takes place not terribly long before the opening scene in Kingsglaive, prior to kid Noctis ending up in a wheelchair. That's a guess, thoguh, but it fits the narrative as we know it at least.

But, that's not the point. The point is that Stella is already fundamentally a different character at that point, and that's under Nomara's direction. Whether there were more re-writes after that or not is irrelevant. The shift had already happened.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Like clockwork...

 

[Kagari]

Where's the proof that Luna lines and character was already written in 2013?

There is no proof, people like to make things up despite Nomura's comments in several 2013 interviews.

 

[DrBretto]

There is no proof, people like to make things up despite Nomura's comments in several 2013 interviews.

There's only one side that's making anything up. And you know what side that is.

The E3 2013 trailer is the smoking gun. That is NOT the Stella that people are pining over already. How fleshed out it is at that point is irrelevant. That is Stella by name, but Luna the character. It's already changed at that point and that's indisputable.

 

[YankeeDonB]

There's only one side that's making anything up. And you know what side that is.

The E3 2013 trailer is the smoking gun. That is NOT the Stella that people are pining over already. How fleshed out it is at that point is irrelevant. That is Stella by name, but Luna the character. It's already changed at that point and that's indisputable.

Got to say this was more or less my impression as well. That by that point Stella's role had significantly changed, and later they went w/ the rename for good measure.

Caveat being that I suspect there were lots of little changes over a long period of time both prior to and after E3 2013, and trying to determine exactly when the character of Stella had changed beyond the parameters of what Stella-heads still seem to hold so dear is a philosophical dead end (ship of Theseus and all that).

Also, these endless Stella/Luna conversations are probably some of the most boring that this community has. Maybe that's just because familiarity breeds contempt and they infect literally every XV thread.

 

[Falk]

Also, these endless Stella/Luna conversations are probably some of the most boring that this community has. Maybe that's just because familiarity breeds contempt and they infect literally every XV thread.

There really isn't much else going on right now. The going-in-circles thing only really bugs me when it's one topic that smothers everything else out when there actually IS stuff to discuss.

Like Cindy yay/naysaying for pages when people wanted to actually talk about the combat right after Episode Duscae released but eventually got smothered out and stopped bothering.

 

[Kagari]

There's only one side that's making anything up. And you know what side that is.

The E3 2013 trailer is the smoking gun. That is NOT the Stella that people are pining over already. How fleshed out it is at that point is irrelevant. That is Stella by name, but Luna the character. It's already changed at that point and that's indisputable.

But it's not. Tabata himself said they changed the character following his takeover on the project.

 

[DrBretto]

Got to say this was more or less my impression as well. That by that point Stella's role had significantly changed, and later they went w/ the rename for good measure.

Caveat being that I suspect there were lots of little changes over a long period of time both prior to and after E3 2013, and trying to determine exactly when the character of Stella had changed beyond the parameters of what Stella-heads still seem to hold so dear is a philosophical dead end (ship of Theseus and all that).

Also, these endless Stella/Luna conversations are probably some of the most boring that this community has. Maybe that's just because familiarity breeds contempt and they infect literally every XV thread.

Yeah, there may well be other changes along the way. I'm sure along with the name change, they also rounded out Luna to be more of her own character as well. All that is totally conjecture at this point. My gripe is with the scapegoating.

The reason, IMO, that the conversation keeps coming up is because it's very much an emotional thing for the Stella fans, and because of that, it's incredibly hard to have a rational conversation about it.

I am absolutely totally all for an embargo on Stella talk because it always does go this way. I'm just hugely against scapegoating and witch hunts in general, and this is exactly what is happening here. I liked the idea of VS. I like Nomura. I'm not against any of that.

 

[OrionX]

I wonder if there is a significant reason for the name change, or if it really was Tabata's way of trying to get people to "let go" of Stella. If it was, it backfired lol, cuz all it did was open the floodgates wider for people to compare and contrast, further cementing them as separate characters.

I know things change during a game's development, and it's Tabata's right as director to make such changes, but I think he would've been better off keeping the name and saying that the core of the character hadn't changed, even if there were differences in her backstory and role in the story. I mean, Noctis probably isn't exactly the same as he was in Versus, but they didn't change his name, or any of the other guys for that matter. Their appearances and clothing all underwent changes as well, just like the Stella to Luna transition. Hell, Regis got a complete overhaul too.

As people keep saying, we never really knew Stella or what her full role would be, so it seems silly to change the name for a superficial reason. Both names reference a light in the night sky, but why the moon instead of the stars? If it was just done to make people forget Stella, they should've known that was never gonna happen. Instead, all they did was enrage Versus fans more by snuffing out the last piece of Stella's existence. xD

I really hope we hear some inside stories someday, cuz I wanna know so bad what went on behind the scenes.

 

[DrBretto]

But it's not. Tabata himself said they changed the character following his takeover on the project.

And if you keep on repeating that to yourself, you will continue to reinforce this belief. And, continue to spread it. You are mistaken in your interpretation.

I covered this part. Tabata changed the name because the character was already a bastardization of Nomura's vision. It was still Stella in name, but Luna in character. Tabata took the hit so people don't blame Nomura for failing to realize his vision prior to leaving the project.

I understand that if you're following this thing from the beginning, it totally looks like Tabata came in there to be the bad guy, but when you separate yourself from that and look back at the timeline, there can be no mistake on this. When the E3 trailer had come out, no one knew to think about that character as being anything but Stella. Even Nomura himself in interviews referred to her as Stella, but she was clearly already different. You can't pin that all on Tabata. It was under Nomura's watch. Tabata did the right thing and changed the name and a few details to separate her from the character Nomura put into all of your heads.

I wonder if there is a significant reason for the name change, or if it really was Tabata's way of trying to get people to "let go" of Stella. If it was, it backfired lol

It was exactly that. And he's stated as such multiple times. And yes, it has ABSOLUTELY, spectacularly, backfired, lol.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

There really isn't much else going on right now. The going-in-circles thing only really bugs me when it's one topic that smothers everything else out when there actually IS stuff to discuss.

Like Cindy yay/naysaying for pages when people wanted to actually talk about the combat right after Episode Duscae released but eventually got smothered out and stopped bothering.

That finds its way as well

 

[Death Penalty]

But it's not. Tabata himself said they changed the character following his takeover on the project.

Tabata himself also said the story and the game drastically changed under him, but I guess the word straight from the new director's mouth isn't sufficient for some reason. Clearly Tabata is just so interested in preserving Nomura's reputation that he'd throw himself and the game he's developing and trying to sell under the bus for Nomura's sake. Anyone who doesn't think gigantic changes and reworks happened under Tabata are kidding themselves.