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[decisions]

As a huge fan of Japanese gaming, today I have finally concluded that Kingdom Hearts is really not a very good series.

I went to back to replay BBS and II before III comes out because I've always heard BBS is one of the better entries and II was the only one I really ever enjoyed.

I tried BBS and just couldn't do it. I was bored and cringing throughout the whole first hour. As for II, I think I'm just going to leave my memories in tact. I also tried to replay KHI in the past year and had similar experience.

For me, the combat fails to be interesting. I'm a huge fan of turn-based RPGs, and a huge fan of character action games, but the combat here just feels like a weird, clunky, unsatisfying half-step that I don't find engaging at all.

The other supposed major draw of the series, the story, I find to be rarely, if ever, effective. I'm a fan of the melodramatic style of storytelling found in many JRPGs - what's found here is just bad. The scripts have weird timing and make the characters out to be shallow and predictable. Another major problem with the story is found in one of the game's essential qualities: the tone created by the mixture of Disney and JRPG characters. This does not work at all. One is melodramatic and serious, the other is jovial and family-friendly. This leads to a lot of weird moments and juxtapositions such as an almighty, adept warrior being...Mickey Mouse. There's also the fact that the plot makes no sense and relies on esoteric, confusing plot points but many people have complained about that in the past. What I'm saying here is that the lack of quality in the story isn't just about the overall plot - what's going on on-screen at almost any given time is just simply not very effective.

I guess when playing as a kid you may be less likely to notice how ridiculous these games are. I really just don't get it any more. If I do play KHIII, it will be out of nothing more than mere curiosity.

What do you guys think? Did you ever like this series, or have you fallen out of love as you've gotten older? Do you still like it?

 

[YayNJ]

To me it's always been one of those series that people claimed they liked for kudos, rather than actually liked. Personally I think the series is garbage. It's aged like a rotting sack of carrots too.

 

[Danjin44]

I personally LOOOOOVE the series. It may not be your cup of tea but that doesn't make the series bad. Also people keep forgetting that BBS made for PSP which only had one along stick, so the combat worked pretty damn well for that system. Also in my opinion KH2 final mix has the best combat in ARPG especially if you play it in critical difficulty.


I'm so HYPED for Kingdom Hearts III, its my most anticipated game in 2019. So I highly disagree with you.

 

[sensor]

To me it's always been one of those series that people claimed they liked for kudos, rather than actually liked. Personally I think the series is garbage. It's aged like a rotting sack of carrots too.

What kudos? I've never seen anyone try to get cred for liking Kingdom Hearts. It's a bunch of edgelord nonsense, albeit a vaguely charming, playable bunch of edgelord nonsense.

 

[Threeshotgamer]

I've always enjoyed the series but I freely admit that i'm looking at it through some pretty heavy nostalgia glasses. And now I get to share that with my daughters in an all new one that we get to discover together so i'm pretty pumped

 

[fallingdove]

Kingdom Hearts 2 was my favorite game from the PS2 era. And like you OP, I decided to play through the games in advance of 3’s release.

And I totally agree, the games do not hold up well. I enjoyed BBS the most of the bunch when I replayed them, but they all suffer from terrible story and dialogue, and god awful level design.

I really hope 3 has some connective tissue between the areas to help with the pacing. I am not interested in playing isolated Disney themed experiences strung together with whatever nonsense KH’s story has become. I am surprised I was when I was younger to be honest.

 

[decisions]

I really hope 3 has some connective tissue between the areas and the story. I am not interested in playing isolated Disney themed experiences strung together with whatever nonsense KH’s story has become. I am surprised I was when I was younger to be honest.

That's another thing I've realized. I guess one way of putting it is that for a series that has so many "worlds"...it feels like there is no world. I really don't have a sense of place attached to the series. Yet, for other JRPGs like FFX, one of my favorite things about them is the world. I really enjoy exploring/learning about it. KH has none of that, except the start of KH2, which is obviously flawed for other reasons.

 

[fallingdove]

That's another thing I've realized. I guess one way of putting it is that for a series that has so many "worlds"...it feels like there is no world. I really don't have a sense of place attached to the series. Yet, for other JRPGs like FFX, one of my favorite things about them is the world. I really enjoy exploring/learning about it. KH has none of that, except the start of KH2, which is obviously flawed for other reasons.

Playing through bbs, I kept thinking, technical limitations aside, why can’t I keep these characters I am meeting in my party. That would at least establish a sense of accumulation/progression. Nope, off to the next world, that area was just another hurdle on my path to the final boss.

 

[Wings 嫩翼翻せ]

If you went backwards from KHII to KHI you did it wrong and I'm sorry. I know for a fact if I did the same thing I wouldn't tolerate the latter.

No one can doubt KHII was the best one. Lotsa good mems.

 

[Zannegan]

I've dabbled in the series over the years, but I have the most experience with the first one. I like a lot of things about the games, but I'm one of those people who thinks the FF element adds nothing and would be better off dropped, and let's not get into the "story." I've held a vague hope that they'd wrap the series up nicely with Three, so they can start another Disney Worlds crossover series without the jargon-riddled nonsense story, but I don't realistically see that happening.

KH is not for me (anymore), but I wouldn't say that makes the games bad. The story, sure, but when has a bad story made a game bad? If Mirror's Edge gets a pass, then everything else does too. Lol.

The fans seem happy, so more power to SE/Disney. *shrug*

 

[Stuart360]

Never really understood the appeal of Disney characters in a JRPG. Maybe i have just outgrown that kind of stuff. DSP did have a couple of hilarious rage and fails filled playthroughs though that were pretty entertaining.

 

[Zog]

What kudos? I've never seen anyone try to get cred for liking Kingdom Hearts. It's a bunch of edgelord nonsense, albeit a vaguely charming, playable bunch of edgelord nonsense.

You mean they didn't tell you they only pretended to like it?

 

[Wings 嫩翼翻せ]

Never really understood the appeal of Disney characters in a JRPG. Maybe i have just outgrown that kind of stuff. DSP did have a couple of hilarious rage and fails filled playthroughs though that were pretty entertaining.

For me it was more of, "hey we have this cool story for a video game" and the incorporation of well-known characters in an awesome type way. This conglomerate was the appeal for me.

 

[Husky]

I love the ser--oh, no shit, guess my avatar gives that away--but I'm still cringing at most of the dialogue. But I love that gameplay and those characters, and somehow that story too.

 

[Alexios]

I don't think Birth by Sleep is considered among the best? I mean, it's a PSP game, even if good it surely was compromised in a big way even compared to the very first KH not only in the quality of visuals but also in gameplay with the more limited inputs and less on-screen enemies and stuff happening in general and what not. And yeah entries after 1 also did more with the gameplay, I mean, it was the first try.

 

[Grinchy]

I’ve never understood the following it has. I expect people to like things I don’t like, but this series is so big somehow. I’ve never liked the combat and the story isn’t good and everyone just looks dumb in it.

I can understand the “my favorite Disney character is here so I clap” mentality but how does that push a person all the way through a long rpg that has really bad aspects?

 

[Spukc]

Never got that weeb crap from day one .
I like some Disney. But omg that ff sauce on it no ty.
I rather play ff7 instead of this cringefest.

 

[old]

The story is fucking stupid, the action rpg battle system is shallow, and artificially difficult bosses are frustrating. And that’s not even mentioning how terrible the game can be at hinting to you where you need to go or what you need to do to progress.

But it was Disney and Square, all those beloved characters, the budget, and the music. So we excused it all. The shine has worn off and people are now seeing just how truly bad the games were.

Worst of all, instead of the sequels fixing the problems, they just got worse. The story got stupider and more incomprehensible. The gameplay got more frustrating.

 

[Danjin44]

I love the ser--oh, no shit, guess my avatar gives that away--but I'm still cringing at most of the dialogue. But I love that gameplay and those characters, and somehow that story too.

The story is convoluted as fuck but very entertaining and I care about the characters and care what happens to them.

 

[peronmls]

The series is not supposed to be taken seriously. It’s just charming with amazing gameplay.

 

[Punished Miku]

The only one I ever played was BBS. For the PSP at the time, it was a good game. Very polished and graphically impressive for the system, and I loved a lot of the cutscenes.

I'm excited about part 3 after the gameplay bits I've seen. Looks extremely fluid with some interesting magic, and lots of crazy verticality and flying around in the levels.

 

[woigemok]

A primary school student can write a better cohesive story than the entire Kingdom Hearts team.

 

[Z..]

It's a monumentally stupid series but it's decent enough. It's far from terrible but even at its absolute peak it has never reached true greatness. 1, Birth By Sleep and Dream Drop Distance are all very solid 6s and 2 is a strong 7. It's a fun series, even if it is a complete mess in many ways.

 

[Danjin44]

It's a monumentally stupid series but it's decent enough. It's far from terrible but even at its absolute peak it has never reached true greatness. 1, Birth By Sleep and Dream Drop Distance are all very solid 6s and 2 is a strong 7. It's a fun series, even if it is a complete mess in many ways.

I personally disagree with that. For me Kingdom Heart 1 is 8 and Kingdom Hearts 2 is strong 9. I absolutely love the combat system in KH2FM and I like said before the story is convoluted but I personally find it very entertaining, so you either like that type of story telling or you don't.

 

[cartman414]

The beginning premise is super corny: two friends fight over this fruit that's supposed to make anyone who shares it best friends forever, so they can share with this chick they're both into. And then it gets convoluted.

Kingdom Hearts is kind of like Family Guy in a sense. Lots of references with little regard to character or narrative.

 

[xwez]

Blasphemy

 

[The Shepard]

The first one was the only good one Imo, the story just goes shit crazy after that one. I replayed them just last year.

 

[Fahdis]

Probably one of the most convoluted garbage franchise in history. My wife is a Disney fan and after playing the 1st one (that too because I pushed her on to finish), she didn't even bother playing the whole collection.

 

[Sparda]

I was a huge kh fanboy. I gave up with the story after bbs. However the gameplay is still very good.

 

[HaveButOneLife]

That's it, I want him banned! /s

 

[Fbh]

Haven't played a whole lot of them (only 2, and that 3DS one) but I could never really get into them.

It's fun at at first visiting all these Disney worlds and interacting with the characters. But every plot element that's not directly linked to Disney is terrible, the characters, writing and plot are all abysmal.

And even the Disney worlds start to lose their appeal because of how gamey they are. Rather than visiting each respective world it just feels like you are thrown into a bunch of empty fight arenas themed after some Disney IP.

If I'm visiting Agrabah I want busy streets and NPC's and fun characters to interact with. Not deserted blocky streets

 

[shark sandwich]

I like jumping into these different Disney worlds and fighting bad guys. It’s unfortunate that that’s buried under a giant pile of convoluted, repulsive tween melodrama.

The core gameplay is fun but it wold be a vastly better game if it didn’t have all the terrible shounen diarrhea all over it.

 

[ROMhack]

Kingdom Hearts always seemed like a game you either got into heavily as a teenager or didn't at all.

 

[Z..]

I personally disagree with that. For me Kingdom Heart 1 is 8 and Kingdom Hearts 2 is strong 9. I absolutely love the combat system in KH2FM and I like said before the story is convoluted but I personally find it very entertaining, so you either like that type of story telling or you don't.

If we're talking IGN/metacritic style ratings where anything below a 7 is straight trash then I'd agree they're 8s.

But I actually use the full spectrum, meaning a 5 = average and a 6 is above average. By that metric, there is no way in hell that KH2 is a 9.
A low 8? Sure. But no way in hell is it a 9. Just for reference it's my favorite game in the series and I've been buying them all since #1 and have also double dipped for all 3 HD collections so far.

Same for 1 being an 8.

I think alot of people confuse "how much I like it" with "how good is it". Shenmue 1/2 and Skies of Arcadia are both in my all time top 5 and I wouldn't rate either of them higher than a 7, despite my enjoyment being a solid 10. There's no shortage of 10s out there either, how much you like something can have no bearing on how high your rating of it is otherwise you're betraying the supposed impartiality of the reviewing process. I say this in regard to your comment on the storytelling. I enjoy it quite a bit too, but it's not good no matter how much we may like it, it's a complete mess.

 

[Danjin44]

If we're talking IGN/metacritic style ratings where anything below a 7 is straight trash then I'd agree they're 8s.

But I actually use the full spectrum, meaning a 5 = average and a 6 is above average. By that metric, there is no way in hell that KH2 is a 9.
A low 8? Sure. But no way in hell is it a 9. Just for reference it's my favorite game in the series and I've been buying them all since #1 and have also double dipped for all 3 HD collections so far.

Same for 1 being an 8.

I think alot of people confuse "how much I like it" with "how good is it". Shenmue 1/2 and Skies of Arcadia are both in my all time top 5 and I wouldn't rate either of them higher than a 7, despite my enjoyment being a solid 10. There's no shortage of 10s out there either, how much you like something can have no bearing on how high your rating of it is otherwise you're betraying the supposed impartiality of the reviewing process. I say this in regard to your comment on the storytelling. I enjoy it quite a bit too, but it's not good no matter how much we may like it, it's a complete mess.

I honestly don't care much for review scores. Catherine was my GOTY in 2011 but it had low metacritic score because most of mainstream reviews got frustrated by the puzzles. I bet you anything 90% of the main stream reviewers didn't play pervious KH games or only played first and second game so they are going find story for KH3 absolutely confusing but that doesn't really apply to me because I played all games and I know what going on with plot and I understand the story in KH series is convoluted and messy but I personally find it highly entertaining.

Just like Catherine, KH series are acquired taste so you either going like the games or you don't. So I personally find reviews useless for these type of games.

 

[Itachi87]

I played both KH 1 & 2 at release. I remembered thinking KH 1 was OK. Played 2 and was disappointed; I was in high school at the time and it's like what you said OP, I couldn't ignore how bad the character and story was. Also, the gameplay felt like a button-masher with little to no complexity and barely improved from the original. The concept of merging Disney and Square worlds was interesting, but the execution was severely flawed. I never had any urge to play the spin-offs. Just not my cup of tea.

 

[Breakage]

I played a few hours of the first game on PS2 and couldn't get into it.
The Utada Hikaru theme songs for 1 & 2 remind me of MySpace for some reason.

 

[haxan7]

It was awesome when it was new.

I didn't make it through any of my playthroughs on the remaster collection.

I'm thinking KHIII will recapture some of the old magic.

 

[Neolombax]

I have not replayed any of the old games. In retrospect, I remember them being excellent and had one of the best gaming experiences with the KH series. I do not want to tarnish that memory. ahaha.

I only remember the camera controls being really bad and the gummi ship sequence for KH1 at least to suck balls.

 

[bigDdestruction]

I never quite got the love for BBS, the movement and gameplay felt stiff i know that's because of it being made on PSP. I honestly think KH1 has the better story, characters, villains, and exploration while KH2 has the better combat. KH3 seems to be a combination of these things so i'm pretty excited. The story is batshit crazy and only went that way once we got to Chain of Memories. KH1's story was very easy to follow imo. I'm loving that the worlds in KH3 look to be filled with actual things in them instead of being big empty rooms for heartless to spawn. I got a chance to play the KH3 demo at NYCC this year and was very impressed.

 

[888]

I made it to the Tarzan area of the first game and said screw it.

The boss in the Alice area was harder than most Dark Souls bosses that I can breeze thru. And it was hard because the gameplay is ass.

I like Disney stuff. I like Final fantasy stuff. Just don’t seem to like this. I have tried about 5 times over the years and it just isn’t good. Perhaps I’ll consider trying 3 if the gameplay isn’t crap.

 

[danielberg]

The first KH has the charm and the combat is a proof of concept, KH2 and especially KH2fm has excellent combat and the Org13 boss fights are easily some of the best bosses in the entire action genre, KH2 is up there with games like DMC3,NGB, NG2 and Bayo imo

 

[Danjin44]

The boss in the Alice area was harder than most Dark Souls bosses that I can breeze thru. And it was hard because the gameplay is ass.

Really? Even if that was the case you could have just put it on easier difficulty. Man, good thing you didn’t try to beat secret bosses like sephiroth or the Unknown.

 

[888]

Really? Even if that was the case you could have just put it on easier difficulty. Man, good thing you didn’t try to beat secret bosses like sephiroth or the Unknown.

Yup. Really, it was more frustrating because of the gameplay that didn’t age well at all. I love challenging games but that was just frustrating. I don’t play games on easy. If the game is just not fun to play I won’t play it.

I’m one that personally finds most of the souls style games easier than what people have always claimed. Even then difficulty is something I appreciate when it is difficult for the right reasons. The Surge was one that had a nice difficulty curve that I appreciated just the other week.

Kingdom Hearts 1 had a terrible platforming aspect from the get go and having to use that in a boss fight was just not fun. Then once I got to the Tarzan area and had more of that sweet sweet platforming I had just had about enough.

 

[Dr. Claus]

If we're talking IGN/metacritic style ratings where anything below a 7 is straight trash then I'd agree they're 8s.

But I actually use the full spectrum, meaning a 5 = average and a 6 is above average. By that metric, there is no way in hell that KH2 is a 9.
A low 8? Sure. But no way in hell is it a 9. Just for reference it's my favorite game in the series and I've been buying them all since #1 and have also double dipped for all 3 HD collections so far.

Same for 1 being an 8.

I think alot of people confuse "how much I like it" with "how good is it". Shenmue 1/2 and Skies of Arcadia are both in my all time top 5 and I wouldn't rate either of them higher than a 7, despite my enjoyment being a solid 10. There's no shortage of 10s out there either, how much you like something can have no bearing on how high your rating of it is otherwise you're betraying the supposed impartiality of the reviewing process. I say this in regard to your comment on the storytelling. I enjoy it quite a bit too, but it's not good no matter how much we may like it, it's a complete mess.

Using the "Full Spectrum", then no. I would still consider you absolutely incorrect.

KH 1 - 8/10
KH 2 - 9.5/10
KH: CoM (GBA) - 7/10
KH: CoM (PS2) - 7.5/10
KH: BBS - 8.5/10
KH: DDD - 8/10
KH: ReCoded - 4/10
KH: 358/2 Days - 6/10

The games are genuinely great. It would not have gotten such widespread acclaim and a huge fanbase otherwise.

 

[Danjin44]

Yup. Really, it was more frustrating because of the gameplay that didn’t age well at all. I love challenging games but that was just frustrating. I don’t play games on easy. If the game is just not fun to play I won’t play it.

I’m one that personally finds most of the souls style games easier than what people have always claimed. Even then difficulty is something I appreciate when it is difficult for the right reasons. The Surge was one that had a nice difficulty curve that I appreciated just the other week.

Kingdom Hearts 1 had a terrible platforming aspect from the get go and having to use that in a boss fight was just not fun. Then once I got to the Tarzan area and had more of that sweet sweet platforming I had just had about enough.

Original Kingdom Hearts came in 2002 so yeah the controls for platforming has not aged well but I personally think combat works pretty damn well, especially if you take advantage of tech system. Besides later on you unlock High Jump and glide which makes platforming no longer a issue.

 

[OldGamer]

When I first played this, it turned me off despite being a big FF and Disney fan. For one, it came across as one of the first major signs of Square (now S-E) getting up its own ass and getting past FF characters involved in the plot, especially before the Disney characters really get into it.

The first game was also more or less torture to get through the first acts. I could swallow the plot and accept its earnest JRPG Care Bears plot, but there is sooo much fetch questing and dodgy platforming. Thank goodness the game does get better and that you get more mobility later on. And the locations are just...not good up until maybe Agrabah.

Then you have the Gummi Ship. It's like they want you to give up before getting to the good stuff.

Another major gripe I have is that, despite the game making the Disney characters combat ready, you are never allowed to actually play as them. I could forgive a heck of a lot of plot garbage, if I am simply given the opportunity to play the whole game as Goofy, kick ass, and save the world....as Goofy....or Donald....or Mickey. Even if it was only a segment of the game. Bonus points is your are fighting against said FF characters.

However, I do appreciate the game being relatively skill-based in Proud Mode

Haven't played a whole lot of them (only 2, and that 3DS one) but I could never really get into them.

It's fun at at first visiting all these Disney worlds and interacting with the characters. But every plot element that's not directly linked to Disney is terrible, the characters, writing and plot are all abysmal.

And even the Disney worlds start to lose their appeal because of how gamey they are. Rather than visiting each respective world it just feels like you are thrown into a bunch of empty fight arenas themed after some Disney IP.

If I'm visiting Agrabah I want busy streets and NPC's and fun characters to interact with. Not deserted blocky streets

The Disney worlds and the general concept was mostly wasted except for using the said characters as summons and the presence of Donald and Goofy. Oh, and the 100 Acre Wood since there's both no enemies there somehow and every character is there (with Sora filling in for Christopher Robin)

This obviously attributed partly to hardware limitations but still......these worlds were mostly lifeless outside of cutscenes because even Traverse Town is mostly just a random monster spawn.

What I would actually want of such a use of an IP in JRPG setting is something more akin to Paper Mario or the like. Have different worlds, sure, but have them spill into one another and have character interactions. And why so selective of the Disney Animation IPs still? Have virtually every Disney character show up, even as NPCs filling up the town. Traverse Town slightly succeeds to a limited degree, but it could be so much more.

They also kindo shoot themselves in the foot my "realistically" establishing that Sora can't talk to non-anthropomorphic animal characters, which limits the appeal the odd scenario in which you can talk to with Chip and Dale but can't with the Dalmations or the Gorillas. That kinda leaves the "animal" disney features in the dust.

 

[Mondai]

Kingdom Hearts has never been good storywise , people love it for the crossovers. (AT least I hope thats why most people like it).

 

[888]

Original Kingdom Hearts came in 2002 so yeah the controls for platforming has not aged well but I personally think combat works pretty damn well, especially if you take advantage of tech system. Besides later on you unlock High Jump and glide which makes platforming no longer a issue.

The combat didn’t really bother me. It was more of having to rely on the jumping mechanics which was awful.

Hopefully 3 feels good and I’ll just give the first game a YouTube viewing and maybe try the 2nd game to see if it feels any better.

 

[Artistic]

Xbox One remasters you know?

A delay is warranted for this very reason.