silvermember
Banned
I really doubt you played chapter 19xx Hector route to see why nergal is considered a tragic character.
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Fire Emblem Fates is absolutely great
- Thread starter Blackquill
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NeonZ
Member
That "solution" only exists in the first place with the avatar support though, so it wasn't really necessary at all. Most other 2nd generation male characters can pair up with her without that plot device at all.
That could be considered a plot hole; I was speaking more in terms of narrative tension. If you introduce someone with a character-defining flaw, you need closure for it at some point. Even if it's part of an optional conversation not everyone will see, it was necessary to show one way Soleil could overcome her affliction.
Blackquill
Member
My favorite vilain is the Black knight too, Alvis comes to a close second tho. Their themes are also both awesome.
Also, I'm stuck on a chapter for two days now, both love and hate that lol
Also, I'm stuck on a chapter for two days now, both love and hate that lol
Bowser is a good villain
dakkumauji
Member
Neoleo2143
Member
Validar and the Grimleal are sort of framed as a Lovecraft cult "WTF is with these people?" In retrospect Grima kinda fits into that idea as well (Robin aside, he's basically "unkillable", effectively a force of nature really beyond the scope of mankind unless they enlist the power of another god and even then, he/she/it can't be truly killed) as well but the issue is that Awakening couldn't really make up its mind about Grima and failed to really make the Grimleal threatening, something previous dark cults such as the Lopto sect succeeded at.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
You know that even when he shows up as a good guy he's going to be bad news later on. Even his brother admits to being scared of him. The fact that he has a half-brother so very different from him is a nice touch to his character, and I love how he doesn't start off as blatantly evil, even offering to help you out.
His son being Seliph's half-brother is also pretty powerful.
Blackquill
Member
That's pretty fucked up when you think about that spoiler lol
I said the soundtrack was good, forget what I said, it's actually FUCKING AMAZING https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f_lhRTh1IE
NeonZ
Member
The Hoshido story is decent, just cliche. Nohr attempts some new concepts for the series, but stumbles at points. Some of those problems are pretty bad though. However, I really think just making the Hoshido sound more aggressive could improve the Nohr story a lot, since then the 2nd half of the story wouldn't be seen as happening solely due to a certain dumb plot device. At least based on what has been seen of the localized version, there's a chance they could be doing that, since a Hoshido character who seemed fairly neutral in the original sounded more anti-Nohr in the prologue chapters.
Basically, in the first half of Norh's story, the Nohr army retreats back to within the country after the avatar chooses to go with them, but Hoshido keeps attacking Nohr and helping rebellions against Norh, and yet, the reason the mc actually goes along with the Hoshido invasion in the 2nd half of the story is a magical plot device there, while the Hoshido, including their army, are all seen as innocent. The mc is also portrayed in a good light through it all - while the game only points out innocents dying due to Nohr's army and the Hoshido invasions never have any effect, which makes the treatment of the avatar questionable. They could easily tweak the dialogue to include protecting Nohr as a justification for the 2nd half of the story though, without changing the game's events at all. If they do that, then the 2nd half wouldn't exist only due to the dumb plot device which would make it all flow much better.
However, the DLC-only "Revelations" story has some background revelations that basically damage both base campaigns, and that couldn't be fixed without a complete rewritting, which certainly won't happen. In fact, there's also a small 2 chapter DLC prologue focusing on 3 certain Norh characters that just hurts things too.
More puzzle like, lots of stage gimmicks. I also wouldn't say conquest is more classic FE as its more relentless than some classic FEs.
Shouldn't the game have characters that do terrible things? I mean its still a army and everyone in the army isn't a saint.
DecoReturns
Member
Lord of Ostia
Member
Nergal is most definitely a tragic character, the only problem is that to see why you have the access the extremely obtuse gaiden chapters of FE 7. He always made sense as a villain though, and once you understand his full back story his motivations, while insane, are at least understandable. Ashnard is another great example of a villain that is clearly evil or deranged but his point of view and motivations seem like something an actual human being could believe. Stuff like the demon king in Sacred Stones is much less interesting, I'm not so much into primal evils that are just defined by that one aspect to their character and only amount to vessels of evil. Same logic applies to Grima. It's just not as compelling.
... wait, what? I don't recall the darksphere/sable, having any story relevance other than it needing to be in the FE in Awakening. The darkshpere still has it's mind corruption/immortality powers in Awakening? Huh.
victreeb3l
Member
I have the special edition pre-ordered with Gamestop but I'd much prefer Amazon or Best Buy so I can save more money. Hope more orders open up closer to launch.
Neoleo2143
Member
Probably won't, and the keychains most likely will be worth something to somebody so you can recoup some of the money tha way.
That's... not what happened. The Grimleal cult spent centuries trying to revive Grima, and . Validar was a direct descendant of that cult. He inherited his forefathers will to revive Grima and house it in a human.
Incidentally, it's a damn shame the Grima arc is literally compressed into the last 3rd of the game. It could have been have legitimately compelling with proper set up
giving more time to develop Robin's origin
DecoReturns
Member
Whoops thinking of scared stones guy for a second.
Vaildar was just trying to resurrect Grima. They need Robin 1 and 2 because reasons. Actually Robin 1 was
Grima
For some reason I had sacred stones in my head.
Really should have cut Walhart's arc out of the game.
Neoleo2143
Member
The more thought I put into this, I keep thinking Awakening tried to bring up the base for pretty much every plot point in the series as a recollection of everything in the franchise than really try to stand on its own two feet.
There's really no reason for the Valm arc to really exist unless I look at it from this context.
Novel Mike
Member
Playing through Awakening again since I never finished it in the first place and I'm starting to remember why.
Awakening... isn't very good.
There are numerous things wrong with it just going to tally these out...
- The design of the game is completely linear making secondary playthroughs a lot less interesting as one of the bigger factors in the GBA titles for me was seeing the different chapters and characters you could recruit a second time around. Nothing like that in this game. Sure its the same as it was as PoR/RD from what I remember but its one of the issues that's more noticeable in Awakening because of all of the other issues I'm going to list.
- So characters and supports.... I'm going to spoilertag this: (Big awakening spoilers!!)
In general I found the support system lacking as it hasn't really changed much since its inception, there is a battle benefit to doing the supports so its needed but the actual conversations between most of the cast are very lacking, I can think of several conversations between casts of previous FE games off the top of my head but I barely remember the pairings of most of the Awakening cast at all. Another thing that I always found odd is that despite the game saying over and over again that Cordelia is in love with Chrom... they can't support each other. Why...? This never made any sense to me.
- Then you have the way the class system works which I HATE. The second seal system completely ruins the game making it vastly too easy (except maybe on Nightmare but I generally don't even want to try Nightmare half the time) and ruins one of the main defining things about each character, the class that they are. I see Chrom as a lord, Virion as an archer, ect I don't want to see them be anything else and sure the second seal system is optional fine but I am generally a completionist in games like these I want to max out my characters so if you give me this option I want to at least try it to see how it works but then if I do it only like 1 or 2 characters those characters are massively overpowered then any other class. It would be one thing if the game were turned around this system but its not making normal a complete and otter joke in terms of difficulty with it and pretty easy even if you never do it. Hard isn't much better. The second seal system should have been a new game + feature.
Oh and I'm still not done, why does EVERY single advanced class need to have additional weapon types? Why do the advanced forms of Pegasus Knights need Tomes or Staves? It just comes across as overkill and takes away many advantages you would have picking out your team to cover certain characters weaknesses, speaking of that the pairing system only makes this worse and makes a single paired unit far to powerful. Gone are the days of building a defensive wall and strategically placing your troops to shield your weaker units, now just pair up a weak unit with a strong one and generally neither will ever be in danger. It kills the actual strategy aspect of the game.
- Also going to mention that the chapters themselves are fairly lackluster almost all of them are Rout the enemy (even when you kill a major boss the battle can keep going
) giving you very little to do besides killing enemies, there are a few defensive based chapters but that's really it. Previous games had much more objective style setups or at the very least the routing the enemies was generally done on constantly different conditions and locations
- Then you have the story which I think other people have touched on better in previous pages but I'll say this: There were far to many arcs and the game was severely hampered by it, every part of the game has poor pacing, and once the
show up everything just gets worse and worse. I really think they should have split the game into two parts
Okay despite what I said I don't hate the game but for me I think its one of the worst in the series, I miss a lot of the charm that the GBA games had both in its character designs and battle styles, some of the critical hit animations in the GBA games are just stunning to watch and the modern games just don't have that style or flair. Not that the GBA games were perfect mind you (I still love PoR despite its non-ending because RD was being made) but I really want to get into Fates and I replayed Awakening because I was super excited for it but now I'm concerned, thankfully at least the gameplay seems to have had a major shake up which has certainly been needed for awhile.
Awakening... isn't very good.
There are numerous things wrong with it just going to tally these out...
- The design of the game is completely linear making secondary playthroughs a lot less interesting as one of the bigger factors in the GBA titles for me was seeing the different chapters and characters you could recruit a second time around. Nothing like that in this game. Sure its the same as it was as PoR/RD from what I remember but its one of the issues that's more noticeable in Awakening because of all of the other issues I'm going to list.
- So characters and supports.... I'm going to spoilertag this: (Big awakening spoilers!!)
Almost all of the characters are completely uninteresting outside of Lucina, Chrom and 'somewhat' Robin, none of them have an arc really even in the support conversations and then you have the the kids that show up, Lucina is a great addition to the cast everyone else not so much to make matters worse the conversations between parents/children in supports are shared so it doesn't matter whom Chrom marries they have the exact same conversations with Luncina and same with all the fathers with the rest of the cast, its rather boring to see this play out in a second playthrough and see that Lucina is taking Oliva dress shopping just like she did with Sumia in my first playthrough and from what I understand pretty much this is the same throughout. This very much limits my interest in this system. To make matters worse post chapter 13 these are ALL of the side quests you get, sure you can get some really powerful characters but they are all low level and just take more time to level up and they aren't really needed at all.
In general I found the support system lacking as it hasn't really changed much since its inception, there is a battle benefit to doing the supports so its needed but the actual conversations between most of the cast are very lacking, I can think of several conversations between casts of previous FE games off the top of my head but I barely remember the pairings of most of the Awakening cast at all. Another thing that I always found odd is that despite the game saying over and over again that Cordelia is in love with Chrom... they can't support each other. Why...? This never made any sense to me.
- Then you have the way the class system works which I HATE. The second seal system completely ruins the game making it vastly too easy (except maybe on Nightmare but I generally don't even want to try Nightmare half the time) and ruins one of the main defining things about each character, the class that they are. I see Chrom as a lord, Virion as an archer, ect I don't want to see them be anything else and sure the second seal system is optional fine but I am generally a completionist in games like these I want to max out my characters so if you give me this option I want to at least try it to see how it works but then if I do it only like 1 or 2 characters those characters are massively overpowered then any other class. It would be one thing if the game were turned around this system but its not making normal a complete and otter joke in terms of difficulty with it and pretty easy even if you never do it. Hard isn't much better. The second seal system should have been a new game + feature.
Oh and I'm still not done, why does EVERY single advanced class need to have additional weapon types? Why do the advanced forms of Pegasus Knights need Tomes or Staves? It just comes across as overkill and takes away many advantages you would have picking out your team to cover certain characters weaknesses, speaking of that the pairing system only makes this worse and makes a single paired unit far to powerful. Gone are the days of building a defensive wall and strategically placing your troops to shield your weaker units, now just pair up a weak unit with a strong one and generally neither will ever be in danger. It kills the actual strategy aspect of the game.
- Also going to mention that the chapters themselves are fairly lackluster almost all of them are Rout the enemy (even when you kill a major boss the battle can keep going
) giving you very little to do besides killing enemies, there are a few defensive based chapters but that's really it. Previous games had much more objective style setups or at the very least the routing the enemies was generally done on constantly different conditions and locations- Then you have the story which I think other people have touched on better in previous pages but I'll say this: There were far to many arcs and the game was severely hampered by it, every part of the game has poor pacing, and once the
kids
Have Chrom's story actually be about Chrom and becoming a leader and having a kid and then have second part be about Lucina in the future building up her forces with the help of the kids of the parents you pair together in Chrom's story and only at the very end do they come together as a united force. Recruiting each kid in the side chapters is by far one of the most tedious and annoying things in Awakening which is made worse by the varying degrees of difficulty for these chapters because you can go up against units that are 10+ promoted right after Chapter 13 when you would BARELY have anyone promoted at this point. Who thought that made sense? It doesn't help that almost all of the kids you encounter in these chapters come off as... idiots. Not trying to find Lucina or Chrom or anything but just wondering around in the world generally getting themselves into trouble at every turn.
Okay despite what I said I don't hate the game but for me I think its one of the worst in the series, I miss a lot of the charm that the GBA games had both in its character designs and battle styles, some of the critical hit animations in the GBA games are just stunning to watch and the modern games just don't have that style or flair. Not that the GBA games were perfect mind you (I still love PoR despite its non-ending because RD was being made) but I really want to get into Fates and I replayed Awakening because I was super excited for it but now I'm concerned, thankfully at least the gameplay seems to have had a major shake up which has certainly been needed for awhile.
Neoleo2143
Member
Playing through Awakening again since I never finished it in the first place and I'm starting to remember why.
Awakening... isn't very good.
There are numerous things wrong with it just going to tally these out...
- The design of the game is completely linear making secondary playthroughs a lot less interesting as one of the bigger factors in the GBA titles for me was seeing the different chapters and characters you could recruit a second time around. Nothing like that in this game. Sure its the same as it was as PoR/RD from what I remember but its one of the issues that's more noticeable in Awakening because of all of the other issues I'm going to list.
- So characters and supports.... I'm going to spoilertag this: (Big awakening spoilers!!)Almost all of the characters are completely uninteresting outside of Lucina, Chrom and 'somewhat' Robin, none of them have an arc really even in the support conversations and then you have the the kids that show up, Lucina is a great addition to the cast everyone else not so much to make matters worse the conversations between parents/children in supports are shared so it doesn't matter whom Chrom marries they have the exact same conversations with Luncina and same with all the fathers with the rest of the cast, its rather boring to see this play out in a second playthrough and see that Lucina is taking Oliva dress shopping just like she did with Sumia in my first playthrough and from what I understand pretty much this is the same throughout. This very much limits my interest in this system. To make matters worse post chapter 13 these are ALL of the side quests you get, sure you can get some really powerful characters but they are all low level and just take more time to level up and they aren't really needed at all.
In general I found the support system lacking as it hasn't really changed much since its inception, there is a battle benefit to doing the supports so its needed but the actual conversations between most of the cast are very lacking, I can think of several conversations between casts of previous FE games off the top of my head but I barely remember the pairings of most of the Awakening cast at all. Another thing that I always found odd is that despite the game saying over and over again that Cordelia is in love with Chrom... they can't support each other. Why...? This never made any sense to me.
- Then you have the way the class system works which I HATE. The second seal system completely ruins the game making it vastly too easy (except maybe on Nightmare but I generally don't even want to try Nightmare half the time) and ruins one of the main defining things about each character, the class that they are. I see Chrom as a lord, Virion as an archer, ect I don't want to see them be anything else and sure the second seal system is optional fine but I am generally a completionist in games like these I want to max out my characters so if you give me this option I want to at least try it to see how it works but then if I do it only like 1 or 2 characters those characters are massively overpowered then any other class. It would be one thing if the game were turned around this system but its not making normal a complete and otter joke in terms of difficulty with it and pretty easy even if you never do it. Hard isn't much better. The second seal system should have been a new game + feature.
Oh and I'm still not done, why does EVERY single advanced class need to have additional weapon types? Why do the advanced forms of Pegasus Knights need Tomes or Staves? It just comes across as overkill and takes away many advantages you would have picking out your team to cover certain characters weaknesses, speaking of that the pairing system only makes this worse and makes a single paired unit far to powerful. Gone are the days of building a defensive wall and strategically placing your troops to shield your weaker units, now just pair up a weak unit with a strong one and generally neither will ever be in danger. It kills the actual strategy aspect of the game.
- Also going to mention that the chapters themselves are fairly lackluster almost all of them are Rout the enemy (even when you kill a major boss the battle can keep going
- Then you have the story which I think other people have touched on better in previous pages but I'll say this: There were far to many arcs and the game was severely hampered by it, every part of the game has poor pacing, and once theshow up everything just gets worse and worse. I really think they should have split the game into two partskidsHave Chrom's story actually be about Chrom and becoming a leader and having a kid and then have second part be about Lucina in the future building up her forces with the help of the kids of the parents you pair together in Chrom's story and only at the very end do they come together as a united force. Recruiting each kid in the side chapters is by far one of the most tedious and annoying things in Awakening which is made worse by the varying degrees of difficulty for these chapters because you can go up against units that are 10+ promoted right after Chapter 13 when you would BARELY have anyone promoted at this point. Who thought that made sense? It doesn't help that almost all of the kids you encounter in these chapters come off as... idiots. Not trying to find Lucina or Chrom or anything but just wondering around in the world generally getting themselves into trouble at every turn.
.
Previous games were really seize oriented, which is a much better standard objective than rout, unless enemies and set ups they have are actually threatening and your units aren't very bulky meaning you have to be really careful. That being said, I'm fond of a couple of moments in Awakening. The mire sorcerers in Ch 21 are incredibly creative and Ch 9 is still an excellent map. Otherwise Birthright pretty much does what awakening tries to do from a gameplay perspective much better, aside for pretty much one crazy as fuck unit that was pretty much hyped from the beginning of the game to be like that. The most enjoyment I get out of awakening are from challenge runs, and Birthright facilitates that idea much much smoother and I remember a number of really tense moments from my lunatic playthrough quite vividly like Chapter 23.
Second Seals were changed into parallel seals and skill acquiring, which is pretty much the most important change in Fates outside the dual system update. There's a time and place to class change to pick up extra skills and it doesn't reset your levels and force you to grind, instead you pick up 1 skill for each time you level up in the class if you meet the level requirement. Also there's way less emphasis on avoidance/hit boosters and more on damage and stat modifiers and percentage damage chip. (Oh and there's only a limited amount until Chapter 21)
Also Advanced classes in Fates also get additional weapon types but they're more limited because only single weapon typed classes (Like Trueblades, Beserkers and Sorcerers) can go up to the max weapon rank vs others.
Cordelia is a "catria" archetype, albeit probably the worst version in the franchise. A character who has unrequited love for the lord character.
Man, it's like they addressed nearly every gameplay issue I had with Awakening. Based Intelligent Systems.
After putting down Conquest for months I finally picked it back up and got into the meat of the campaign (at Ch. 17 right now), and I'm still laughing at how blunt the plot device to justify the second half of the game is. The whole
you can't talk about Touma or you'll die/only the Hoshido throne can show demonic possession
Also, yes, I would say this game improves on virtually every gameplay system from Awakening.
One thing I don't get about the FE fandom, is that they complain about awakening being too cartoony anime (which is completely fine), but then they go on and on and on about the GBA combat animations ... which are incredibly cartoony anime with over the top animations and designs (hi armor knights/generals).
Well there are still story issues. I'm wondering if it's because of the change of narrative style and they thought PoR/RD had too much narration.
Well there are still story issues. I'm wondering if it's because of the change of narrative style and they thought PoR/RD had too much narration.
It's a similar term for two different concepts. The negativity towards more 'anime' character archetypes and designs is presumably not because of the fact that they're unrealistic in themselves, but that they dislike those specific exaggerations and prefer a different style, or less charitably; are clinging to the past. There's a difference between liking Lyn's anime sword stuff and wanting to run into Camilla's chest in first person, at least.
I completely understand people being critical of the direction of the fanservice in the latest games, but call it that.
And you can accuse me of clinging to the past as well 3/4/5 animations forever!
dakkumauji
Member
honestly if people wanted to cling to battle animations, they should be clinging to the magnificent ones in Radiant Dawn
Neoleo2143
Member
You talking about lyn's boob physics in her blade lord animation?
But I get this point. I also dunno why this series never got over its obsession with zetai ryouiki (or whatever how it's spelled). I'm not a fan of some characters in prior FE games either like florina who is just a shy girl...and that's pretty much it (and her support with Hector is pretty bad). Lolis will forever be apart of this series. And I'm fine with that. Because fire emblem since the beginning has had that. But as long as they give me really interesting characters like Xander, then I'm alright. But I will recognize when others really dislike elements of this franchise.
He didn't meant the fanservice, just the impracticality of the attack.
DecoReturns
Member
I think they wanted to get a larger audience. And put focus on design, cutscenes and other aspects and simplified the gameplay.
It succeeded and it kinda shows they knew that, I feel the choice to make two was based on how they wanted to represent the gameplay not the story. I'm just happy that both games seem to play different because I did enjoy awakening, but I wanted a radiant dawn
There are many words I would use to describe Radiant "wow this game is really ugly" Dawn and its animation. Magnificent is not one of them. Outside of a handful of critical hit animations, it's an eyesore. Still love Senri Kita's character artwork.
Also, the Game Boy Advance games have this:
And this:
This is without getting into the SNES trilogy's all-around terrific animation, of course.
As has been said, it's not that it's anime (even though people say this when they really mean fanservicey) it's that they don't like how it's like modern anime.
I don't think having ridiculous attack animations was ever a problem.
Novel Mike
Member
You have no idea how happy it makes me to hear that.
Dicktatorship
Junior Member
What's the gaf consensus on Radiant Dawn? I remember getting it for Christmas 2007 and being absolutely enamored by it, replaying it recently I don't think it got good until the 3rd chapter.
Oh the FE8 Fire Emblem didn't drive Lyon crazy, mr. demon king was in it, Lyon was screwing with the FE Demon king nommed Lyon's mind and started fucking with everyone using Lyon's body as a meat puppet.
Gameplay-wise, it's a treat, even if there's the weird army-splitting stuff. Map design is crazy and there's a lot of cool challenge at the end.
Story-wise, I liked that they fleshed out the world and its conflicts, but some of the elements fell flat in my opinion.
Starsailor
Banned
radiant dawn is the best entry OF the series, i didn't play Fates yet
DecoReturns
Member
It's pretty divisive, either you really like it for its varied mission structure and introduction of the third-tier class changes or you really hate it for its lackluster writing when compared to Path of Radiance, ruination of the support system and all of the fourth chapter. I personally feel it's the worst game in the series for all those aforementioned negative qualities in addition the inconsistent characterization like Ike leaving Elincia (How the heck does a mercenary make it impossible to contact them, let alone the queen they once served in a war they lead? You can't make money if no one can hire you!) and the utter nonsense
of bringing the Black Knight back to life without any build-up