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[water_wendi]

Read the thread title and was outraged then i read the article and wasnt. i feel for the guy that lost his house but you cant build your house in a place where you dont pay taxes and expect to have access to those services. The owner is an idiot.. especially if he pays for insurance on his house because after they find out that he refused to pay his $75 annual for fire protection from a neighboring county/town, they probably arent going to pay him.

 

[CaptainABAB]

If you want your money that bad, put out the fire and send them a bill for $75.

If you could pay AFTER the fire, then why would anybody pay $75 before the fire? Who would pay for car insurance if you could get the same coverage by waiting to pay until after you get into an accident.

It costs more than $75 to put out a fire - this is a service provided by another municipality where the cost is spread out over multiple homes paying the $75 fee.

 

[Evlar]

If you could pay AFTER the fire, then why would anybody pay $75 before the fire? Who would pay for car insurance if you could get the same coverage by waiting to pay until after you get into an accident.

It costs more than $75 to put out a fire - this is a service provided by another municipality where the cost is spread out over multiple homes paying the $75 fee.

I've got another fantastic idea. Make it a mandatory tax, and deal with non-payment in court as tax evasion rather than enforcing it by letting property burn.

 

[jorma]

I've got another fantastic idea. Make it a mandatory tax, and deal with non-payment in court as tax evasion rather than enforcing it by letting property burn.

communist

 

[industrian]

They were too busy taking photos of it with their D300 cameras.

 

[CaptainABAB]

I've got another fantastic idea. Make it a mandatory tax, and deal with non-payment in court as tax evasion rather than enforcing it by letting property burn.

Re-read the article - "Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton."

You can't be charged taxes from a municipality you don't belong to.

 

[Interfectum]

:lol @ no one reading the article

 

[gutter_trash]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Shanadeus]

Re-read the article - "Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton."

You can't be charged taxes from a municipality you don't belong to.

This confuses be a bit, but I'm not that knowledgeable about the American system.

So the Obion County residents pay no tax at all?
If so, how come they simply don't pay taxes to the city of South Fulton?

It has been mentioned several times that this was in a rural area. Without densely packed in buildings, there is presumably less risk for the fire to spread out of control even without an immediate response.

That's a big gamble, I had no idea that firefighters were trained to estimate the dangers of a loose fire over the phone.

Why don't you let the firefighters worry about that, and you stop worrying your little swiss self an ocean and a continent away.

Because I'm a commie european that wants the imperialist americans to become a bit more socialist.

 

[jorma]

Re-read the article - "Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton."

You can't be charged taxes from a municipality you don't belong to.

No but Obion county should probably pay South Fulton the amount to ensure protection for everyone in the Obion municipality, and then tax their own residents the correct amount.

 

[Evlar]

Re-read the article - "Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton."

You can't be charged taxes from a municipality you don't belong to.

Yeah, because it would inconceivable that Obion County could establish some pay arrangement with South Fulton funded by a tax.

 

[water_wendi]

This confuses be a bit, but I'm not that knowledgeable about the American system.

So the Obion County residents pay no tax at all?
If so, how come they simply don't pay taxes to the city of South Fulton?

Heres my understanding.

Obion County is a rural area. They dont have either the will or the resources to establish their own fire department. South Fulton is 20 miles away and they offer to protect residents of Obion County with their fire dept. for $75 annual since residents of Obion dont pay taxes to South Fulton.

edit: its kind of funny because between Obion and Fulton there is another city called Union City that has their own fire department.

 

[Korey]

Followup article:

More fallout following house fire

SOUTH FULTON, Tenn. - An area fire department felt the heat Thursday after a department policy allowed a home to burn to the ground.

The focus remains on what's called subscription fire service. Some people living in Obion County, Tennessee must pay a $75 fee to a city fire department if they want firefighters to respond in an emergency.

On Wednesday afternoon, a home in Obion County burned to the ground because the home's owners, Gene and Paulette Cranick, didn't pay the fee.

"Well, I don't mind the home. I know it can be replaced, but other things I got in there can't be," Gene Cranick said. "Other than that, we're doing fine, nobody got hurt that's a good thing, everybody is okay. We're going to live over this."

South Fulton police arrested one of Gene Cranick's sons, Timothy Allen Cranick, on an aggravated assault charge. When officers arrived at the firehouse Wednesday, South Fulton Fire Chief David Wilds was in an ambulance receiving medical treatment.

Police said Cranick was upset firefighters weren't putting out the fire and attacked the chief. The South Fulton city manager said Wilds was treated and released and will recover just fine.

The incident is shining new light on a policy that's got a lot of people upset. But Union City Fire Chief Kelly Edmison is defending the firefighters in South Fulton.

"If somebody is trapped in the house we're going to go because life safety is number one but we can't give the service away," Edmison said. "It's not South Fulton's problem. It's not Union City's problem. It's the county's problem. There is no county fire department."

And with no fire department, people living in the county rely on nearby city or volunteer fire departments in an emergency.

In Obion County there are eight municipalities. South Fulton, Union City and Kenton are the only ones on subscription service, meaning if you don't pay, you don't get help.

That's exactly what happened to the Cranicks Wednesday. It's a situation Edmison said isn't ideal but a necessity to keep fire departments operating.

"If we just waited to charge when we went out there, you'd be working on a per-call basis," he said. "With no more calls than there are, the money wouldn't be there in a sufficient source to buy the equipment you need."

He and other fire chiefs in Obion County who charge subscription fees for county residents know they're in a tough spot.

"It's like car insurance," Edmison said. "I wish I could wait until I have an accident until I pay my premium on my car insurance, but it doesn't work that way. So why should the fire service be looked at anything different?"

Again, if the fire situation is life threatening, fire departments will respond. However, that was not the case with the fire in South Fulton Wednesday.

Edmison said Obion County has entered into a letter of intent with all eight fire district municipalities, so all eight departments will soon respond to county residents through subscription service only.

SHORT STORY:

The fire department in that area of Tennessee are funded by subscription fees for services outside the city. It works for them, keeps them in business, people get their fires put out. If they charged the fee after the fact, they'd go out of business. They will respond no matter what if the fire is life threatening. Family in question chose not to pay the fee. The fire was not life threatening. Their fire did not get put out.

/thread

 

[The Faceless Master]

I've got another fantastic idea. Make it a mandatory tax, and deal with non-payment in court as tax evasion rather than enforcing it by letting property burn.

they can't tax people that don't live in their municipality! that's why there is a $75 fee!

 

[Sent]

If he willingly didn't pay, it sucks for him, plain and simple. That'll learn 'em.

 

[CaptainABAB]

Yeah, because it would inconceivable that Obion County could establish some pay arrangement with South Fulton funded by a tax.

But they haven't - even with a similar home fire in 2008 where the fire dept didn't even come out at all.

So they have no one else to blame but themselves - either establish a volunteer fire dept (which costs money) or establish a county tax that pays for the services from South Fulton (which costs money) or pay the $75 fee (which costs money).

They apparently choose option D - none of the above.

 

[Tom Penny]

It's the homeowners fault. A house is pretty much the biggest investment you make in your life and you don't pay 75 bucks. So many people got screwed this year were I live because they didn't get flood insurance and we randomly had ridiculous rain for a few weeks. Those are the breaks.

 

[WanderingWind]

And I see no argument here from you, but liberal bullshitness that has no sustainability.

Because there's no policy, they don't know what to do. Hell, it may even be illegal for them to put out the fire and charge through the roof. Remember the US is a place where, if someone is bleeding, injured and unconscious, another person who comes forward to attend to the victim and causes infection from physical contact can be SUED for complications/fees incurred from the subsequent hospitalization. This has happened.

And really, stave off the ad-hominems. They don't make your arguments any stronger.

Likewise, Captain Irony.

EDIT: And if people are okay with this policy, would you also be okay with a privatized police force? Pre-payment of ambulance services?

 

[richiek]

Wow, I can't believe people are actually defending the fire department's actions. smh

 

[The Faceless Master]

Yeah, because it would inconceivable that Obion County could establish some pay arrangement with South Fulton funded by a tax.

it's inconceivable that they haven't in the 20 years since this has been taking place when the policcy was set up in 1990. why do people live in a municipality with no fire dept, then not pay the $75 for the neighboring municipality's fire dept to service them?

Wow, I can't believe people are actually defending the fire department's actions. smh

i can't believe people are blaming the fire dept for a fire that started in two big oil drums, spread to a shed, then spread to a house.

 

[-PXG-]

nvm

 

[Kurtofan]

If he willingly didn't pay, it sucks for him, plain and simple. That'll learn 'em.

Because you find normal for firefighters to let a house burned down consciously?
These assholes don't deserve to be called firefighters.

 

[water_wendi]

i can't believe people are blaming the fire dept for a fire that started in two big oil drums, spread to a shed, then spread to a house.

Yeah when i saw that on the video i was smh. They live in a place without a fire department and they are burning leaves or something.

 

[News Bot]

Paying for fucking fire department service?

What sort of backwards monkey ass shit is this?

 

[The Faceless Master]

Because you find normal for firefighters to let a house burned down consciously?
These assholes don't deserve to be called firefighters.

firefighters are there mainly to save people and stop fires from spreading. firefighters routinely let fires burn out if that's judged to be the right decision. nobody was in danger so there was no reason to respond. when the fire was at risk of spreading to a taxpayer, they responded.

Paying for fucking fire department service?

What sort of backwards monkey ass shit is this?

everyone pays. the people in the municipality pay for the service as a part of their taxes and the people outside it pay via the $75 fee since they can't be taxed by a place they don't live in.

 

[WanderingWind]

i can't believe people are blaming the fire dept for a fire that started in two big oil drums, spread to a shed, then spread to a house.

So, then they should only put out, what...electrical fires? Should a paramedic only give treatment to the person not at fault in a car wreck?

 

[water_wendi]

Paying for fucking fire department service?

What sort of backwards monkey ass shit is this?

When you live in a rural area that has no fire department this kind of thing happens.

 

[Kurtofan]

firefighters are there mainly to save people and stop fires from spreading. firefighters routinely let fires burn out if that's judged to be the right decision. nobody was in danger so there was no reason to respond. when the fire was at risk of spreading to a taxpayer, they responded.

People who don't pay can die in a fire and no one would care?
Great mentality there.

 

[Dali]

I live in a city that wants to annex areas outside of its limits and the people in those areas - an area of mostly newer, nicer, houses and almost entirely of middle to upper class people - are very much against the idea because they don't want to cough up the tax money. Of course they do want police and fire stations set up on the edge of the city limits to service them and complain about garbage pick-up being a hassle, but of course when it comes to being annexed and having to pay those taxes it's all "nooooo, thank you". So yeah, I can't say I feel much empathy for this family. I bet they pay more for car insurance.

 

[The Faceless Master]

So, then they should only put out, what...electrical fires? Should a paramedic only give treatment to the person not at fault in a car wreck?

they've already stated their policy. they show up for taxpayers in their municipality, people who's lives are in danger and people outside of their area who pay the $75 fee for coverage.

 

[The Faceless Master]

People who don't pay can die in a fire and no one would care?
Great mentality there.

is english not your first language or something?

 

[water_wendi]

People who don't pay can die in a fire and no one would care?
Great mentality there.

But there was nobody inside or in danger otherwise they would have responded.

 

[Flachmatuch]

Firefighting as a business enterprise = retarded

 

[WanderingWind]

they've already stated their policy. they show up for taxpayers in their municipality, people who's lives are in danger and people outside of their area who pay the $75 fee for coverage.

Well, that in no way answers the question. Nor does it make it any better. You can explain any sort of horrific policy. Doesn't mean the policy is terrible, nor does it excuse the actions of the firefighters in this case, with the policy in place.

 

[Kurtofan]

is english not your first language or something?

I didn't say that someone died.It was a supposition.
And yes it itsn't,though I understand it perfectly thank you very much.

 

[water_wendi]

Firefighting as a business enterprise = retarded

Small towns cant afford to fight fires two cities away for nothing. Sad but true.

 

[Dali]

Firefighting as a business enterprise = retarded

I'm starting to wonder how many people have read any portion of this thread or the story before posting.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Firefighting as a business enterprise = retarded

living in an area with no fire department and not paying a measly $75 a year for coverage from the neighboring municipality's department = super retarded

I didn't say that someone died.It was a supposition.

but it's already been said several times that they respond to residences that haven't paid the fee if someone's life is in danger, so i can only assume you read it and didn't understand it or just ignored it when you came up with that brilliant supposition.

 

[Aesthet1c]

I can't believe how stupid this is.

Like seriously, regardless of fee, could you honestly sit and watch somebodies house burn to the ground, being fully capable of stopping it at any time? Especially over a 75$? If so, you're an awful human being.

I understand that it's not that easy, and there are laws and regulations behind this, but there has to be some way that they can bring a contract with them or something, that the person can sign and pay a fee of like 500$ or something.

Seriously, do these "out of coverage area" people have to pay a yearly fee to have police stop a person that robbed their house? ffs...

 

[NewLib]

The better thing for the fire department to do was to put out the fire if they agree and charge them the (most likely) much higher than 75 dollars that it cost to put it out.

 

[Home]

The homeowner is obviously not too bright if he decided against paying the firefighting fee, but the municipality is stupid as well. Like a previous poster said, it should be a mandatory fee the municipality charges everyone, and then they pay the other municipality.

And because they didn't do this, a house got burnt to the ground, and another house, who had paid the fee, was damaged. Really looking out for your constituents there.

 

[SmokyDave]

The better thing for the fire department to do was to put out the fire if they agree and charge them the (most likely) much higher than 75 dollars that it cost to put it out.

Who would pay for the collections agency that the fire department would need to hire to re-claim their costs?

If the householder won't pay $75, they aren't going to pay more.

 

[water_wendi]

I can't believe how stupid this is.

Like seriously, regardless of fee, could you honestly sit and watch somebodies house burn to the ground, being fully capable of stopping it at any time? Especially over a 75$? If so, you're an awful human being.

They didnt sit there and watch it burn.. they never even came out. Once the fire had spread to a neighbors property the fire department drove 20 miles and put out that fire and left. The house was probably gone by that time because there was a news crew there when the firefighters were wrapping up the paying persons fire and the house was nothing but foundation.

Seriously, do these "out of coverage area" people have to pay a yearly fee to have police stop a person that robbed their house? ffs...

Afaik if you live in a place with no law enforcement, theres nobody to report a robbery to other than state police or neighboring county sheriffs.

edit:

And because they didn't do this, a house got burnt to the ground, and another house, who had paid the fee, was damaged. Really looking out for your constituents there.

Actually the person that paid the $75 annual didnt have fire damage their house. This is not a suburban area. From watching the video there seems to be quite a distance to the neighbors property. Its rural. Its not like flames from one house are licking house next door.

 

[Flachmatuch]

I'm starting to wonder how many people have read any portion of this thread or the story before posting.

Errr...yeah, sorry. Not that it changes anything, it's still based on the exact same principles and it's still retarded.

Small towns cant afford to fight fires two cities away for nothing. Sad but true.

No idea, but I've not really heard about stuff like this in my own country which is just a tiny bit poorer than America :-D Although of course smaller too.

 

[Evlar]

I live in a city that wants to annex areas outside of its limits and the people in those areas - an area of mostly newer, nicer, houses and almost entirely of middle to upper class people - are very much against the idea because they don't want to cough up the tax money. Of course they do want police and fire stations set up on the edge of the city limits to service them and complain about garbage pick-up being a hassle, but of course when it comes to being annexed and having to pay those taxes it's all "nooooo, thank you". So yeah, I can't say I feel much empathy for this family. I bet they pay more for car insurance.

This is the bitterly ironic element of the story. Anyone familiar with the politics in sub-rural or exurban America is familiar with this phenomenon: efforts to incorporate are rejected at the ballot box because residents are unwilling to be subjected to higher taxation. They will simultaneously complain about poor service and neglect from law enforcement, other government agencies, and yes, fire departments. A guy who refuses to even pay the $75 fee for out-of-municipality fire protection may well be the same guy who votes to refuse to allow government to organize to provide these basic functions, on tax grounds.

 

[Boonoo]

It could be an issue of liability. Maybe it was a situation where since he hadn't paid and signed a waiver or whatever he could turn around and sue the fire fighters if they didn't do the job to his liking. It's issues of liability that stop doctors from trying to save random people on the streets (although I think they've recently passed laws protecting good Samaritans from litigation).

 

[equil]

So the firefighters really went through all the work to show up, and then checked to see if he paid, which he hadnt so they just let it burn...theres something wrong there.

First of all ive never heard of people having to pay the fire department for services.
That dude should like sue the city.

 

[dskillzhtown]

The homeowner is obviously not too bright if he decided against paying the firefighting fee, but the municipality is stupid as well. Like a previous poster said, it should be a mandatory fee the municipality charges everyone, and then they pay the other municipality.

And because they didn't do this, a house got burnt to the ground, and another house, who had paid the fee, was damaged. Really looking out for your constituents there.

What happens in cases like this is the homeowner doesn't live in a municipality that has fire fighters. That 75 bucks is the only thing keeping the volunteer fire fighting force going. So those are the people who they can afford to respond to. It is a sad economic reality, but that is how it is. To say, "Well, they can just charge them after the fact," doesn't take into account how much money it would take to try to collect after the fact. As someone who has worked in collections, there would be little incentive for a person to pay after the services were rendered.

To me, the issue is that fire protection is something that should not be optional to homeowners, period. If you have a chance to get fire protection, you pay for it. To not do so doesn't make sense. I will bet you everyone will be paying that 75 bucks from now on.

So the firefighters really went through all the work to show up, and then checked to see if he paid, which he hadnt so they just let it burn...theres something wrong there.

First of all ive never heard of people having to pay the fire department for services.
That dude should like sue the city.

You probably should read the thread. Read that OP atleast.

EVERYONE pays for fire department services in one way or another.

 

[Aesthet1c]

They didnt sit there and watch it burn.. they never even came out. Once the fire had spread to a neighbors property the fire department drove 20 miles and put out that fire and left. The house was probably gone by that time because there was a news crew there when the firefighters were wrapping up the paying persons fire and the house was nothing but foundation.

That's basically the same thing. If someone called you in tears, begging for help, you're going to look over your list and see they didn't give your team 75$ and tell them "sorry, watch your house burn, the 15 minute drive isn't worth it to us."

Afaik if you live in a place with no law enforcement, theres nobody to report a robbery to other than state police or neighboring county sheriffs.

My second point was more sarcasm than anything.

 

[Azih]

Afaik if you live in a place with no law enforcement, theres nobody to report a robbery to other than state police or neighboring county sheriffs.

Holy crap. In Canada the RCMP take care of anything that isn't covered by a municipal force. Sure we pay taxes and I'm not going to use them since I live in a city, but it's nice to know the mounties ride out to save people in the boonies!