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First Look at Batman: The Killing Joke (?)

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Shaanyboi said:
Not sure what you mean when Phil Bourassa has been the lead designer on 90% of their animated movies, and was design lead on Young Justice too.

Unless you mean everything has to look like Timmverse all the time.
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I had to look up what Timmverse meant. But yeah that's what I meant.
I normally wouldn't mind changing things up, but you hear the same voices and you expect the same art. It just never feels right, even if some of the movies are really good.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
Just because a comic has one dumb thing in it doesn't mean the whole thing has to go full-tilt gloryhallastoopid in return.

(and yes, I know The Killing Joke has more than just one dumb thing in it)

But again, if people wanna argue for Morrison's stupid theory from the stance that "well the whole thing is fucking stupid might as well run it off the road at the end, right" that's something that makes more sense to me than people thinking it's actually cool/powerful as an ending.
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Well, like I said before I'm not the biggest fan of The Killing Joke in the first place, so I'm more inclined to prefer Morrison's interpretation. Not saying it would be more powerful for Bats to kill the Joker in that last scene, but to me it just feel like the whole Barbera situation is something that *might* make him snap and cross that line. I guess Morrison's view on the ending feels like a more logical outcome of events to me rather than the edgy, cynical theory of Batman secretly being as nutty as his worst enemy. I used to love that theory when I was younger but nowadays I feel like the way it's portrayed in The Killing Joke is nowhere near as good as how other writers like Scott Snyder have approached the subject.
 
blummer102 said:
. I guess Morrison's view on the ending feels like a more logical outcome of events to me rather than the edgy, cynical theory of Batman secretly being as nutty as his worst enemy. .
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How is the obvious, correct interpretation (of course he's as nutty as the joker is) "edgy and cynical" as opposed to the theorized ending?

That's a case of "strike that, reverse it" for me. The whole appeal of the Morrison theory is that it's "edgy" in that super-simple way that seems complicated and interesting but is just hollow. That certainly seems to be why most people advocate it.

It's like the comics version of people who think A.I. makes more sense and is a better story if it just stops at the bottom of the ocean, instead of going all the way to the end, where shit gets REALLY fucked up.
 
Shadow Ranger said:
Also one the post Flasbpoint fence... The current movies are OK but just not as visually interesting. It's all very generic anime inspired (still can look good though). The animation from older stuff coupled with its unique style were some of things that really stood out for me. That, and the good story telling.

In any case, definitely gonna check this out!
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It's very anime looking probably because like half the animation is outsourced to Asian studios for most of these movies.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
How is the obvious, correct interpretation (of course he's as nutty as the joker is) "edgy and cynical" as opposed to the theorized ending?

That's a case of "strike that, reverse it" for me. The whole appeal of the Morrison theory is that it's "edgy" in that super-simple way that seems complicated and interesting but is just hollow.
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I think they're both cynical, tbh. The canon ending bothers me because Batman just had one of his long term partners crippled from the waist down by his worst enemy, who also humiliated his long term ally on the police force. And all of his anger suddenly goes away when the Joker tells a joke and the two laugh like old buddies. I get what Moore was trying to say about the duality of Bats and the Joker, but since The Killing Joke is a book that chose to sacrifice a long-term character like Batgirl primarily to make a "surprise, Bats is crazy too" reveal in the last few panels, it just feels like a case of tired late 80's comic cynicism to me.

Bats killing the Joker isn't much better, you're right. But I guess I didn't see Morrison's theory as "edgy" in the same way that a lot of other fans did when he first revealed it - to me it just seems like the whole ordeal with Barbara is the sorta thing that might make Batman snap and break his number one rule, especially if you consider how he reacts when Jason dies AND the fact that The Killing Joke was originally supposed to just be a prestige one-shot not tied to continuity.
 
Sibersk Esto said:
Michael Turner's style was a weird transition

Superman-Handsome-Metro-Facebook-Cover.jpg
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Superman... he's so.... handsome...

*sparklies*
 
Saucycarpdog said:
It's very anime looking probably because like half the animation is outsourced to Asian studios for most of these movies.
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Nah, it's Phil Bourassa's designs of the current in-continuity features that feel a bit anime inspired. A ton of western animation gets at least partially outsourced to Asian studios, but the designs and storyboarding are usually done in the country of origin. Do Batman: TAS, Spongebob, Samurai Jack, Arthur, The Simpsons, or Steven Universe look like anime? Not that anime has a singular look, but i hope you get what i mean.

Spring-Loaded said:
If only Andrea Romano was doing voice direction
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Do we know that she isn't? Apart from this year's Batman: Bad Blood and Justice League Vs. Titans she has done most of these, as recently as last year, when she voice directed all three features. Granted, she's getting up there in age and i've read rumors that she's looking to slowly retire, so they might be grooming others to take her place, but i'd think that she'd make time for Killing Joke, seeing as how it involves a bunch of her B:TAS alumni.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
Also, one of the things I've remembered most vividly from when DC Animated first started in with these direct to video animated movies, before Doomsday even dropped, was a press release that stated the films would absolutely be designed and animated in as close to the original comics' artist styles in the source material they were adapting.

And then Doomsday actually came out and it looked exactly like Timmverse shit, but with a couple extra lines.

And it's pretty much never been any different.

In fact, the only DC Animated thing I can think of in that period of time that actually DOES chane designs to more faithfully replicate the source artwork is that 75th Anniversary Superman short that Timm did.
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I don't know man, i'm not quite seeing that. If we're talking about character designs, even the two Superman/Batman movies look distinct from one to another, much less compared to other features. The New Frontier was already mentioned, but out of the straight adaptations All Star Superman, Batman: Year One, The Dark Knight Returns, and both Superman/Batman movies clearly took inspiration for its designs from the source material. IMO the only direct adaptation that looks blatantly Timm-like is, as you've pointed out, Superman: Doomsday. While Under The Red Hood didn't try to adapt the look of the source material, it still had distinct designs, as did Superman: Unbound.

Bobby Roberts said:
Nah, not really. Over time it's shifted style to a different, less blatantly Timm-based style, but it's still not looking like the comics art all that much at all.
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It's true that they haven't made any efforts to closely replicate comic designs recently. Since Timm stepped down as the main producer of this line and Tucker took over, they have used a mostly uniform cast and designs for the in-continuity features. That could be down to Tucker's stated desire for more continuity, but it's also obviously a cost cutting measure. Even under Timm they often went their own way, but that was mostly done for stories that were original, very loosely adapted or cobbled together from various story lines, so there wasn't a singular style to adapt in the first place. However, i'd say that for most of the higher profile adaptations they have still tried to stick as close to the source material's designs as reasonably possible. And out of the ones that weren't using comic book inspired designs, they've changed the style up often enough, that i didn't feel like i'm watching redesigns of Timm's DCAU work for the umpteenth time. I do get your desire for more designs that would replicate certain comic styles though, that Zack Snyder/Bruce Timm joint you linked to was a thing of beauty, but maybe that would be too cost prohibitive in feature length form, who knows. At least going by the Batman design in that Killing Joke screen it seems as if they tried to adapt Bolland's style though, so fingers crossed for that.
 
ROUGE_BLOCK said:
Are they going for the R rating or did they decide on PG-13?
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They haven't openly said what they've decided. Just that they were given the permission to go with R.

What were Assault on Arkham and Flashpoint Paradox? They get away with a lot of violence already, just by the virtue of being animated.
 
I'm looking forward to this, even though the last couple of animated Batman films have been a bit crap. Kevin Conroy though. :)
 
blummer102 said:
Maybe, but the ending with Batman giggling with the Joker right after he shot and critically wounded a former partner of his is also dumb as hell.
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Batman somewhat losing his composure under the sheer stress of that day, perhaps realising the futility of trying to reform The Joker, is a great moment IMO.
 
Miles Quaritch said:
Is that All Star Superman?
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No, it's the Superman from Superman/Batman: Apocalypse, an adaptation of Superman/Batman: The Supergirl from Krypton:

maxresdefaultljj3s.jpg
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Shaanyboi said:
They haven't openly said what they've decided. Just that they were given the permission to go with R.

What were Assault on Arkham and Flashpoint Paradox? They get away with a lot of violence already, just by the virtue of being animated.
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Both were PG-13, like the whole line.
 
Shaanyboi said:
What were Assault on Arkham and Flashpoint Paradox? They get away with a lot of violence already, just by the virtue of being animated.
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Both were PG-13. Flashpoint had a few jarring moments, but I have NO idea how Assault on Arkham got away with some of the things it did.
 
Valjean Lafitte said:
Wasn't her and everyone else's pasts rectconned anyway courtesy of the New 52 reboot?
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Everything was rebooted, but some things were kept, like the fact that Joker shot Barbara and killed Jason. The difference in the reboot is that Babs eventually regained the usage of her legs.

Alienous said:
Batman somewhat losing his composure under the sheer stress of that day, perhaps realising the futility of trying to reform The Joker, is a great moment IMO.
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Ya, in their efforts to shit on an acclaimed comic, people have sorta started to underrate the story and be obtuse about certain things in it. Part of the reason why Batman laughed was because how incisive it was in the middle of one of the worst nights of his life, it took him completely off guard and he sort of just mentally broke a little. He didn't go crazy, but he lost it for a bit due to the stress and because of the nature of the joke.

It clearly isn't Batman laughing with his ol' pal the Joker, and I think a lot of the people criticizing it for that know it.
 
StaticJam said:
It's not even worth it watching that video with how often the content stops so the uploader can avoid copyright claims
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I'm fine with it considering the BD is still 9 days away from release and then it'll probably take another 2 weeks of shipping time for me (if it doesn't get lost like my last order, that is), but i'm sure someone will upload an unedited version in the next few days.
 
Surprised Jay Oliva isn't directing this one. He always seems to get their bigger projects. Still, Sam Liu did a solid job with JL vs TT, so I look forward to what he can do with a far more dramatic story like this.
 
Wish they'd try a bit harder with the art style. Calling Bolland a pain to animate makes it clear its just another pay check...

If I was given TKJ to work on it would be such a passion project.

I can understand the need to add more subplots to boost the runtime and give characters a ground floor but changing the existing dialogue, panel compositions and designs as I can see they have isn't cool.

Just to say I'm not one to behold to how things are in comics in general but it's TKJ. It's all ingrained.
 
GentlemanCrow said:
Wish they'd try a bit harder with the art style. Calling Bolland a pain to animate makes it clear its just another pay check...

If I was given TKJ to work on it would be such a passion project.

I can understand the need to add more subplots to boost the runtime and give characters a ground floor but changing the existing dialogue, panel compositions and designs as I can see they have isn't cool.
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You're inferring a lot with this, about how much the crew supposedly "doesn't really care", whilst also ignoring the realities of animation. These movies have to be affordable enough to make, otherwise they aren't getting made at all. These aren't getting massively publicized releases - they're direct-to-video for a fairly narrow market.

It also isn't a storyboard artist's job to literally replicate a comic panel-for-panel. Assuming they're supposed to would be an insult to both the craft of comic artists themselves, and the people working on the animated adaptation. Both have a different flow, strengths, and considerations. The language of visual storytelling between the two mediums is wildly different.

And no adaptation goes forward without revision. No matter how revered it is.
 
GentlemanCrow said:
Wish they'd try a bit harder with the art style. Calling Bolland a pain to animate makes it clear its just another pay check...
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Not really, the only reason these movies still get made is because WB animation is never working at full capacity and they have contracts with foreign animation studios.
The budgets are basically shoestring and they try to make 3 a year.
Could it be done? Yes
is it worth the extra time and money? probably not for a DTV.
 
Is it impossible to let a movie look exactly like the comic ? Do we have technical limitations or budget limitations ? Those animated movies all look so clean, anime look way better.
 
Kenzodielocke said:
Is it impossible to let a movie look exactly like the comic ? Do we have technical limitations or budget limitations ? Those animated movies all look so clean, anime look way better.
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Mostly budgetary. To make it look exactly like the comic would probably cost the amount of the last 5 animated movies they made combined, not to mention the enormous time sink. The amount of detail required would not only be extremely difficult to emulate, there'd also be an extremely slim margin for error to prevent that amount of cross-hatching etc. from swimming too much, etc.
 
I always love footage of Hamill recording his lines because of how animated he always seems to be.

Shame they weren't recording the lines in the same room though.
 
Blablurn said:
I read the killing joke the other day ... But didn't feel it. Is it like the most beloved batman comic?
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No, that's probably The Long Halloween.

For me, Killing Joke was great for the Joker backstory. Ever since I read it, that's been his backstory for me (though the '89/TAS mobster is fun). The Barbara thing, and that it didn't get retconned was pretty huge too.
 
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