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Fitness |OT9|...You looked better before

If you have to ask, you should probably be on a cut.

I'm interested in knowing your reasoning behind this. Frankly I found even with my extremely slow bulk (less than half a lb a week on average), I was still very concerned with the amount of fat that I'd end up putting on (and I was right, I'm fairly tubby now).

But short of drug assistance, or getting into some particularly hardcore nutrient timing... you're going to put on fat.
 

bchamba

Member
This second strength block is beating me up. Slight quad strain a week ago, now my elbow is hurting from having my grip too close on my squats yesterday. Still hit my reps for bench today, 275 for a 4x4. Hoping to feel fresh enough for Saturday's squat session.
 
Haven't posted in a few. I appreciate the OHP feedback from everyone.

6 day a week workouts have been going well. It's nice to be able to fit some of the compounds like front squat fresh. No crazy doms which is surprising.

I'm 1lb away from my goal weight (178) so I can make it an even 50lbs lost. Let's do this.
DOOOOO EEEEET!

Good stuff dude!
 

entremet

Member
That body breaking down thread makes me grateful I discovered training early on.

I know Psychotext is broken down due to bike crashes :(
 
Injured my shoulder blade yesterday. No idea how.

Was fine when I went to bed, fucked when I got up. Have mostly continued training but it's painful to breathe. :(

I'll always be susceptible to injury; hyper-mobility is a bitch. I'm a fucking beast when it comes to cardio fitness though. :)
 

Szu

Member
also the location.. there's a donut shop next to them. sonic and a sushi place in the vicinity. (y)

Heh, I got you beat. The 24 Hour Fitness is close to McDonald's, Popeyes, Baskin Robbins/Dunkin Donuts, a lot of Asian restaurants, and the pizzeria where John Travolta got the two pizza slices at the beginning of Saturday Night Fever.

Ironically, there's a Planet Fitness on the next block too.
 

Szu

Member
Injured my shoulder blade yesterday. No idea how.

Was fine when I went to bed, fucked when I got up. Have mostly continued training but it's painful to breathe. :(

I'll always be susceptible to injury; hyper-mobility is a bitch. I'm a fucking beast when it comes to cardio fitness though. :)

Sorry to hear that, man. Guys, stop getting hurt.
 
I'm interested in knowing your reasoning behind this. Frankly I found even with my extremely slow bulk (less than half a lb a week on average), I was still very concerned with the amount of fat that I'd end up putting on (and I was right, I'm fairly tubby now).

But short of drug assistance, or getting into some particularly hardcore nutrient timing... you're going to put on fat.

I guess because it was a very beginner questions, and beginners don't need to bulk to put on muscle/build strength.

Weight training by itself will be fairly effective for that.

Plus, being concerned about putting on too much fat, makes me think that he's already overweight, (or more probably skinny fat), and a cut is what's going to remove the excess fat, not a bulk.

Plus, I always try to save people from the bigorexia that plagues amateur bodybuilding whenever I can lol. Even if it's just one person.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
Haven't posted in a few. I appreciate the OHP feedback from everyone.

6 day a week workouts have been going well. It's nice to be able to fit some of the compounds like front squat fresh. No crazy doms which is surprising.

I'm 1lb away from my goal weight (178) so I can make it an even 50lbs lost. Let's do this.

Wait, what?? Holy crap dude. How you feeling? Abs peaking through yet?
 

TheFlow

Banned
I guess because it was a very beginner questions, and beginners don't need to bulk to put on muscle/build strength.

Weight training by itself will be fairly effective for that.

Plus, being concerned about putting on too much fat, makes me think that he's already overweight, (or more probably skinny fat), and a cut is what's going to remove the excess fat, not a bulk.

Plus, I always try to save people from the bigorexia that plagues amateur bodybuilding whenever I can lol. Even if it's just one person.
This is a good post
 

ILoveBish

Member
Lifting platform is finished, i can start lifting tomorrow night after work for the first time in 6+ weeks. The only thing i have left to do is bolt the cage to the platform, but i'll be fine for now since i'm so weak it'll be like a 12 year old lifting for the first time at the gym.
 
This injury is one of the most painful I've had for a while. Slept like shit last night (forced me to sleep on my back, which I've never been any good at).

No idea what weights I'm going to be able to do, if any. I get the feeling that short of calf raises, my shoulder blade / upper back will be involved in pretty much all of them. Wasn't even able to do the turbo trainer without pain. Wouldn't be so concerned, but I've already had more than a week off the weights because of the cycling events. :(

Might have to put my cut on hold to reduce the muscle loss.
 
This is a good post
Ehhhhhh...

I guess because it was a very beginner questions, and beginners don't need to bulk to put on muscle/build strength.

Weight training by itself will be fairly effective for that.

Plus, being concerned about putting on too much fat, makes me think that he's already overweight, (or more probably skinny fat), and a cut is what's going to remove the excess fat, not a bulk.

Plus, I always try to save people from the bigorexia that plagues amateur bodybuilding whenever I can lol. Even if it's just one person.
First, what is bigorexia? How does one "save" someone from it? What is the meal and diet plan for it?

Second, beginners SHOULD be doing things properly to maximize muscle growth and strength to build a strong foundation no matter what. Noob gains are a thing but that doesn't mean "weight training" in the loosest of meaings will be effective at a PROPER foundation. You can still do shit very wrong at the onset resulting in a waste of time so thinking these blocks of time are throwaways like you are insinuating is damaging in more ways that one.

Third, there's also nothing concerning about questions from any newcomer that should lead you to believe anything about that individual. They are questions we've all had at some point. They don't mean he's overweight, they don't mean he's skinny, they don't mean anything, they are just questions that deserve straight forward answers, not - well you sound like you're a fatass so I'll just say this because bigorexia or some shit.

Savvy?

This injury is one of the most painful I've had for a while. Slept like shit last night (forced me to sleep on my back, which I've never been any good at).

No idea what weights I'm going to be able to do, if any. I get the feeling that short of calf raises, my shoulder blade / upper back will be involved in pretty much all of them. Wasn't even able to do the turbo trainer without pain. Wouldn't be so concerned, but I've already had more than a week off the weights because of the cycling events. :(

Might have to put my cut on hold to reduce the muscle loss.
Damn, dude. So sorry to hear this :(

Szu is correct. We should all really atop getting hurt lol.
 

JoeNut

Member
Ehhhhhh...


First, what is bigorexia?

.

I believe bigorexia is when you believe you're like a skinny weed no matter how big you get, there was a report on the bbc about guys who are huge steroid freaks but still see themselves as too skinny and go to insane levels to get bigger
 
Sorry to hear that, man. Guys, stop getting hurt.
This. I'm not directing this at Psycho or anyone (hope you recover soon buddy!), but if you're injured, just rest it off. Do cardio at the most if you feel you need to be in the gym.

I've never been a fan of hitting other body parts, going light, or lifting until you feel pain. A few weeks out of the gym ain't gonna kill ya. Take it easy, eat well, and get back in there when you feel better.

Again, not directed at anyone, just a thought I had when I was reading about all the injuries a few pages back and people were still lifting.
 
I believe bigorexia is when you believe you're like a skinny weed no matter how big you get, there was a report on the bbc about guys who are huge steroid freaks but still see themselves as too skinny and go to insane levels to get bigger
Oh I know. I was being an ass about it.

I don't think folks new to lifting have to worry about this. Especially without a strong grasp on fundamentals of everything fitness related.

Shooting from the hip at "bigorexia" to a newbie is like me training a new student who is at Bruce Lee levels out of the gate and thinks he's still an egg.

That doesn't happen. If it does, then dude is a legit phenomenon. So pretty much never.
 

BumRush

Member
This injury is one of the most painful I've had for a while. Slept like shit last night (forced me to sleep on my back, which I've never been any good at).

No idea what weights I'm going to be able to do, if any. I get the feeling that short of calf raises, my shoulder blade / upper back will be involved in pretty much all of them. Wasn't even able to do the turbo trainer without pain. Wouldn't be so concerned, but I've already had more than a week off the weights because of the cycling events. :(

Might have to put my cut on hold to reduce the muscle loss.

Like spirit said, maybe just relax for 2 weeks bud. I'm sure this recent spell of injuries is your body telling you it needs a break.

Do you have access to electro stim therapy? I hurt my shoulder blade about 5 years ago and in addition to RICE it helped a ton.
 
It's not a spate of recent injuries. I will always get a few injuries every few months... just simply by virtue of drawing a shit hand from the genetic pack. Dislocations and strains are pretty much a guarantee for me if I do anything more strenuous than yoga (which, ironically I'm amazing at because of the stupid levels of flexibility I have).

I don't really have a choice in just not doing it when not I'm injured. I can't really give you a point when I wasn't carrying at least one (minor) injury of some sort.

Is probably why my physio has yacht magazines littering his office.
 
Ehhhhhh...


First, what is bigorexia? How does one "save" someone from it? What is the meal and diet plan for it?

Second, beginners SHOULD be doing things properly to maximize muscle growth and strength to build a strong foundation no matter what. Noob gains are a thing but that doesn't mean "weight training" in the loosest of meaings will be effective at a PROPER foundation. You can still do shit very wrong at the onset resulting in a waste of time so thinking these blocks of time are throwaways like you are insinuating is damaging in more ways that one.

Third, there's also nothing concerning about questions from any newcomer that should lead you to believe anything about that individual. They are questions we've all had at some point. They don't mean he's overweight, they don't mean he's skinny, they don't mean anything, they are just questions that deserve straight forward answers, not - well you sound like you're a fatass so I'll just say this because bigorexia or some shit.

Savvy?
by "bigorexia in amateur bodybuilding," I was referencing the the perma-bulking phenomenon. It's where guys put on massive amounts of weight. (mostly bodyfat) but tell themselves it's all muscle.

In bodybuilding you generally want to be at a bodyfat% level that is much lower than what is even considered healthy.

I personally recommend a bulk go no higher than 18% bodyfat for a male, but the average rookie lifter is well above that number.

Knowing when to bulk and when to cut is part of having a "PROPER foundation." And yes you can do things wrong just weight training, but you can also screw up a bulk.

And there isn't a straight forward answer to his question. Not every question asked is going to have one. But if he already has doubts now that his bulk could go wrong and that he could end up putting on too much fat, then it's my opinion that he shouldn't be bulking.
 

JoeNut

Member
So steering this away from becoming an argument....

Is 5x5 Stronglifts realistic in believing you can add 2.5kg every time you do an exercise?

for example you bench twice a week, so in that week you have added 5kg's.

I don;t think it's possible for my body to grow this quickly, i have added 15kg's on to my bench in about 4 months, which may be slow going, but i don't believe it would be possible to do this in 3 weeks which is what Stronglifts seems to suggest.
 

mdsfx

Member
Every time Psycho... every time I'm on this fucking bike I see you taunting me. I'm 1 hour in and you're just fucking laughing at how entertaining it is to see me struggle. My imaginary version of you is such a bastard. I hate him so much.

"That's it? Lol. You know that calorie count is pure bullshit right? Lol."

<3
 
by "bigorexia in amateur bodybuilding," I was referencing the the perma-bulking phenomenon. It's where guys put on massive amounts of weight. (mostly bodyfat) but tell themselves it's all muscle.

In bodybuilding you generally want to be at a bodyfat% level that is much lower than what is even considered healthy.

I personally recommend a bulk go no higher than 18% bodyfat for a male, but the average rookie lifter is well above that number.

Knowing when to bulk and when to cut is part of having a "PROPER foundation." And yes you can do things wrong just weight training, but you can also screw up a bulk.

And there isn't a straight forward answer to his question. Not every question asked is going to have one. But if he already has doubts now that his bulk could go wrong and that he could end up putting on too much fat, then it's my opinion that he shouldn't be bulking.
But you replied to someone making assumptions/conclusions without any specific information whatsoever. No one likes putting on fat. When you tell someone that they will put on fat when bulking, people tend to freak out. They think they're going to became obese in months even when upping their calorie intake at a very modest amount (the OP said 500 calories, which is actually a rather appropriate increase when testing the waters for bulking).

It's quite silly to tell someone they shouldn't be bulking if they're worried about putting on fat. I get the points you're trying to make, and for the most part I agree, but you're going to scare people away from putting on weight when they want/need to.

As far as the OP, It's all probably just water weight/bloat anyway.
 
by "bigorexia in amateur bodybuilding," I was referencing the the perma-bulking phenomenon. It's where guys put on massive amounts of weight. (mostly bodyfat) but tell themselves it's all muscle.

In bodybuilding you generally want to be at a bodyfat% level that is much lower than what is even considered healthy.

I personally recommend a bulk go no higher than 18% bodyfat for a male, but the average rookie lifter is well above that number.

Knowing when to bulk and when to cut is part of having a "PROPER foundation." And yes you can do things wrong just weight training, but you can also screw up a bulk.

And there isn't a straight forward answer to his question. Not every question asked is going to have one. But if he already has doubts now that his bulk could go wrong and that he could end up putting on too much fat, then it's my opinion that he shouldn't be bulking.
Gaining too much fat is a legit concern. Throwing out bigorexia because someone questions some inevitable fat gain during a bulk (even during noob gains) is the wrong way to approach the situation and absolutely the wrong advice to give without specific knowledge of the situation.

Having questions as a newcomer to bulking is fine. Having doubts is fine. That doesn't mean "if you have to ask, then probably (dot dot dot)".

If he is putting on too much fat and wants to bulk, he can still cut back on his small 500 calorie surplus or do small periods of cuts during a bulk (as I did) to keep the non-meat off. There's more than one way to keep the fat off during a bulk without going full tilt in either direction.
 

Shy Fingers

Banned
So steering this away from becoming an argument....

Is 5x5 Stronglifts realistic in believing you can add 2.5kg every time you do an exercise?

for example you bench twice a week, so in that week you have added 5kg's.

I don;t think it's possible for my body to grow this quickly, i have added 15kg's on to my bench in about 4 months, which may be slow going, but i don't believe it would be possible to do this in 3 weeks which is what Stronglifts seems to suggest.

I would say it depends on where you are entering it at. As stated on the site/app, the 5lb increases each time are meant for newer people. Once that stops working, they suggest you switch it up.

As a beginner that started it 5 weeks ago, I've only had to lower my OHP as I couldn't do it with proper form. Everything else has been fine.
 

demented

Member
Whoever said cut first if skinny fat above, not always the best case. If you were sedentary like a lot of gaf users, no sports, played games etc, you're likely to have no or very little muscle foundations. If you cut you'll end up looking like sickly skeleton and can take a while, might be better idea to do slow bulk and build a foundation first and then cut. That's what I did at least.

I'm 183cm, got to 69 kg, became really skinny but still not skinny enough, weight loss stalled and it was slow as fuck, family started telling me I looked worse than my uncle when he was on chemo for cancer but I was still skinny fat, I was skinny yes but no muscles so after few months of fucking around I gained few kg, then started bulking and things have been going really well. When I feel like I packed too much fat(on top of the muscle) I'll cut and work my ass off to get to low teens bf% and finally things will be normal. Gaining ~1kg most per month, tracking everything and it's going well but I'm not ocd about only eating x and y, going over a bit or under other day etc.
 
Whoever said cut first if skinny fat above, not always the best case. If you were sedentary like a lot of gaf users, no sports, played games etc, you're likely to have no or very little muscle foundations. If you cut you'll end up looking like sickly skeleton and can take a while, might be better idea to do slow bulk and build a foundation first and then cut. That's what I did at least.
Yup, I wasted two years trying to lose fat and put on muscle. Wish someone had said what you said to me back then. I'd have been much better off just eating at some sort of maintenance level and hoping for a bit of body recomp rather than trying to do it all at a deficit.

I still really struggle to put on any meaningful amount of muscle, but I look a lot better now than I did then.
 

Astral

Member
How essential is it to drink a gallon of water a day? I keep hearing that but that sounds ridiculous. How do you not pee all the time?
 
How essential is it to drink a gallon of water a day? I keep hearing that but that sounds ridiculous. How do you not pee all the time?
you should be drinking water throughout the day regardless. water helps you from dehydration and other stuff. its not like we're drinking the gallon in one sitting ;P
 

mdsfx

Member
How essential is it to drink a gallon of water a day? I keep hearing that but that sounds ridiculous. How do you not pee all the time?

As you get used to drinking more, in my experience, your thirst will catch up to your increased water intake and it will feel more natural. As for having to use the bathroom constantly, I only noticed this at the beginning. Again, it helps not to chug water in one sitting. Just keep water with you and drink it throughout the day.

I wouldn't worry about hitting 1 gallon per day. I'm not convinced there's a huge difference between drinking, say, 1/2 gallon vs 1 gallon. Just concentrate on staying hydrated.
 

Teggy

Member
Only 5-5-2 on bw+30 chin-ups, oh well. The fight toward bw+45 continues. But wow, can't believe I have gotten this far.
 
LzbLb1m.jpg
 
But you replied to someone making assumptions/conclusions without any specific information whatsoever. No one likes putting on fat. When you tell someone that they will put on fat when bulking, people tend to freak out. They think they're going to became obese in months even when upping their calorie intake at a very modest amount (the OP said 500 calories, which is actually a rather appropriate increase when testing the waters for bulking).

It's quite silly to tell someone they shouldn't be bulking if they're worried about putting on fat. I get the points you're trying to make, and for the most part I agree, but you're going to scare people away from putting on weight when they want/need to.

As far as the OP, It's all probably just water weight/bloat anyway.

Whoever said cut first if skinny fat above, not always the best case. If you were sedentary like a lot of gaf users, no sports, played games etc, you're likely to have no or very little muscle foundations. If you cut you'll end up looking like sickly skeleton and can take a while, might be better idea to do slow bulk and build a foundation first and then cut. That's what I did at least.

I'm 183cm, got to 69 kg, became really skinny but still not skinny enough, weight loss stalled and it was slow as fuck, family started telling me I looked worse than my uncle when he was on chemo for cancer but I was still skinny fat, I was skinny yes but no muscles so after few months of fucking around I gained few kg, then started bulking and things have been going really well. When I feel like I packed too much fat(on top of the muscle) I'll cut and work my ass off to get to low teens bf% and finally things will be normal. Gaining ~1kg most per month, tracking everything and it's going well but I'm not ocd about only eating x and y, going over a bit or under other day etc.

Recommending him to go on a cut, with that little information was a bit drastic. I definitely shouldn't have done that.

Gaining too much fat is a legit concern. Throwing out bigorexia because someone questions some inevitable fat gain during a bulk (even during noob gains) is the wrong way to approach the situation and absolutely the wrong advice to give without specific knowledge of the situation.

Having questions as a newcomer to bulking is fine. Having doubts is fine. That doesn't mean "if you have to ask, then probably (dot dot dot)".

If he is putting on too much fat and wants to bulk, he can still cut back on his small 500 calorie surplus or do small periods of cuts during a bulk (as I did) to keep the non-meat off. There's more than one way to keep the fat off during a bulk without going full tilt in either direction.
It wasn't that he was concerned about putting on too much bodyfat. Like you said it is a legit concern. The comments I made about that were kind of off tangent, and a distraction from my actual point.

In the OP post, he asked specifically how much weight gain would be muscle, and how much would be fat.

(i.e. the answer he was looking for was a ratio.)

That question specifically is a beginner question. It's the type of question you ask when you are a beginner.

An experienced lifter already knows that the answer depends on a multitude of factors (like your bodyfat%, training age, workout volume, calories, gender etc...) and it cannot be predicted to any certain degree.

I personally would never recommend a beginner to bulk, but your right that that doesn't mean that he should be cutting instead.
 
I would, and have in the case of people who are skinny fat. There's nothing more depressing than spending a number of months cutting and finding you look like absolute shit at the end of it.

Get a good strength base, work from there.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
My advice to people getting into weight lifting for the first time is always the same. Make sure to have a compound progression program and eat tons of PB&Js.
 
Recommending him to go on a cut, with that little information was a bit drastic. I definitely shouldn't have done that.


It wasn't that he was concerned about putting on too much bodyfat. Like you said it is a legit concern. The comments I made about that were kind of off tangent, and a distraction from my actual point.

In the OP post, he asked specifically how much weight gain would be muscle, and how much would be fat.

(i.e. the answer he was looking for was a ratio.)

That question specifically is a beginner question. It's the type of question you ask when you are a beginner.

An experienced lifter already knows that the answer depends on a multitude of factors (like your bodyfat%, training age, workout volume, calories, gender etc...) and it cannot be predicted to any certain degree.

I personally would never recommend a beginner to bulk, but your right that that doesn't mean that he should be cutting instead.

That's all well and good, man. I'm specifically calling you out on jumping to motherfucking body dysmorphia (you labeled it 'bigorexia') as reasons to tell him to cut.

That's what I'm getting at.

You trying to "save" him (your own words) from a fucking disorder.

Are you a doctor? A psychiatrist? Do you always just seek the problem to lie within mental faculties instead of perhaps lack of knowledge?

If you can't tell i'm a little bit miffed you would just waltz in here throwing around mental disorders when someone asks a fucking question. I don't like going off on people but god damn.
 
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