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For admiring Neil Druckmann, could Cory Balrog also put an SJW agenda in GOD OF WAR 2 ??

For admiring Neil Druckmann, could Cory Barlog also put an SJW agenda in GOD OF WAR 2 ??

  • yes

    Votes: 77 40.1%
  • no

    Votes: 59 30.7%
  • maybe

    Votes: 56 29.2%

  • Total voters
    192
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Mar 6, 2016
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They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for my GAMES, and by that time no one was left to speak up.
 

Azurro

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It's not a tactic, it's the truth. There's no SJW agenda in the game, period.
Some wokeness, sure. But it never gets preachy or tries to teach you a lesson (at least not in the "women are way cooler than you think" or "Respect LGBT people!!!" way).

Just having a lesbian couple and a transgender in your game doesn't turn it into the SJW agenda simulator.
This is a dishonest tactic, the game is full on wokeness and is an LGBT propaganda game, it's just more subtle. It's way more than "some wokeness", but you can't argue with someone that insists water isn't wet, so I won't get into it.
 

Keihart

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Jun 23, 2013
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Freya kills Kratos right at the beginning and then you play most of the game with her as she helps Atreus get rid of his internalized misogyny.... I can see that happening.
You kid, but Atreus it's actually being setup as a main character in the first game although i don't think it will be in the next game. Maybe mid game at most, he still has to grow up and i don't see a jump in time for the sequel happening.
 

Shin

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Feb 4, 2013
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Just look at Cory Barlog's tweets and we see his complete admiration for everything Neil does.
Moderator, if the topic is outside the rules, please delete it
Your thread is fine as if your question and is more than what some posters that are shitting on your thread can say.
Considering how that time period is painted in Vikings and/or other medium(s) the idea wouldn't be far-fetched or out of place.
 

shubik

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Dec 23, 2019
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This is a dishonest tactic, the game is full on wokeness and is an LGBT propaganda game, it's just more subtle. It's way more than "some wokeness", but you can't argue with someone that insists water isn't wet, so I won't get into it.

I would love you to go deeper into that. How is this game LGBT propaganda? We have an established character who was knowingly gay in the first part. We have a trans boy who ran away from an abusive cult and we have a female protagonist with lots of muscles (without being unrealistic as the girl who did mocap looked identical). Is the fact that these characters exist in the game already a sign for you that this is some LGBT propaganda?

Would you consider movies like Philadelphia or Broke back mountain to be also LGBT propaganda?
 
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Azurro

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I would love you to go deeper into that. How is this game LGBT propaganda? We have an established character who was knowingly gay in the first part. We have a trans boy who ran away from an abusive cult and we have a female protagonist with lots of muscles (without being unrealistic as the girl who did mocap looked identical). Is the fact that these characters exist in the game already a sign for you that this is some LGBT propaganda?

Would you consider movies like Philadelphia or Broke back mountain to be also LGBT propaganda?
As I said, this style of arguing is fruitless, because you can't see it when it's staring right at your face, so it's not worth it to get into the conversation. It's been said thousands of times before, they shoved gayness into the main character through the DLC of the first game, the trans girl/boy 's sexual identity being paramount in the apocalypse and somehow an important part of the plot, a monster lady that literally can't get that big without steroids, in the apocalypse. Add to that all the women acting like men, Ellie being written as a man and everyone being freaking ugly.

It is straight up propaganda of most social movements you can think of.
 
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shubik

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As I said, this style of arguing is fruitless, because you can't see it when it's staring right at your face, so it's not worth it to get into the conversation. It's been said thousands of times before, they shoved gayness into the main character through the DLC of the first game, the trans girl/boy 's sexual identity being paramount in the apocalypse and somehow an important part of the plot, a monster lady that literally can't get that big without steroids, in the apocalypse. Add to that all the women acting like men, Ellie being written as a man and everyone being freaking ugly.

It is straight up propaganda of most social movements you can think of.
Starting an argument with someone with the mindstate that its fruitless and that the other person is blind sure as hell sounds like a hopeless project....


But let´s still try:

- No, I wouldn´t say that Ellies sexuality was tagged on in the DLC. The DLC simply added to
- Lev's sexuality being a thing in the story makes absolute sense. The last of us was always full of private and personal stories. That's the point of the game. And in this context it also makes sense. Gay/trans people exist in the real world. Why should you not include such a character in the game? And in the context of the story, it makes sense as well. we have a crazy and brutal doomsday cult that is torturing people. How do you think such a cult would react to such a kid? It also wasn´t a major story point. Just another personal story in this cycle of violence
- A monster lady? come on... yes she had big arms but nothing crazy. You saw in the stadium they have a gym and in such a world it makes sense to be tough and buff
- all women acting like men?!?! Hard disagree. Same for that Ellie is written like a man. Yes, she has mannerisms but she is still a vulnerable girl beneath all that tough shit. look at how she acts with Dina when Jesse comes. Or the joint smoking scene. You just choose to ignore those parts but they are still in the game...
- and last but not least... no, not everyone is ugly. I still think Ellie looks cute and Dina is also very feminine
 
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The_Mike

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It seems like Sony is generally taking a more sjw friendly route, so I'd expect more of the same in their franchises.

The succes from The Last Of Us II shows that players love it, so why wouldn't they?
 

Daring7

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If you’re taking political messages from games, then you’re gaming wrong. I’ve never read a book or watched a movie and been influenced politically or socially by it.

just play them for what they are, bits of entertainment. If the game feels and plays well, and you get some entertainment from it, great.

I’ve never understood why people get so worked up by the messaging in video games.
 

DarkBatman

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This is a dishonest tactic, the game is full on wokeness and is an LGBT propaganda game, it's just more subtle. It's way more than "some wokeness", but you can't argue with someone that insists water isn't wet, so I won't get into it.
Well, I hope you're aware that you're the one with the dishonest tactic.
I finished the game yesterday and didn't see more than "some wokeness" and no propaganda whatsoever.

But hey, you don't care having a discussion (did you even play the game or did you only "saw all the leaks!!!111"), so you've lost by default. Thank you. :messenger_winking:
 
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shubik

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If you’re taking political messages from games, then you’re gaming wrong. I’ve never read a book or watched a movie and been influenced politically or socially by it.

just play them for what they are, bits of entertainment. If the game feels and plays well, and you get some entertainment from it, great.

I’ve never understood why people get so worked up by the messaging in video games.

Exactly! A good work of fiction can make you think and gets you invested. But you are not gonna change your political view or your sexuality based on a game. It´s also so disrespectful to the artist. Who are you to tell the guys who created the characters how to handle them? I mean I get it from a fan perspective. But still... you are just a consumer. you are not the one to decide in which direction a work of fiction goes. Such a weird view point full of entitlement.
 

Shinobitron

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Also you guys are obsessed. I thought you were all about freedom of expression?
Freedom of expression doesn't always work when trying to sell products. Usually a smart business person will market their product to all people instead of a small minority.
 
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Dunno... maybe Atreus start identifying himself as a godess?
"Loki is the father of Narfi and/or Nari. By the stallion Svaðilfari, Loki is the mother—giving birth in the form of a mare—to the eight-legged horse Sleipnir."
You mean the guy who turned himself into a mare to be fucked by a stallion and gives birth?

Damn you again SJWs!
 
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Danjin44

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Freedom of expression doesn't always work when trying to sell products. Usually a smart business person will market their product to all people instead of a small minority.
You could say the same about FROM choosing not put difficulty option on Sekiro, and yet the game end up selling well and people loved it.

FROM could have put difficulty option for "mass appeal" and it might end up selling even more but thats not what FROM wanted for their games. Games are at their best when devs are free to make what they want.

I recently finished FFVIIR and I personally LOVED the ending and what impressed even more that they chose to do this knowing not everybody going to be on board and yet they did anyway because thats the direction they wanted to go with, even the Part 2 end up complete failure, I can still respect what they did.

I'm not saying people shouldn't allowed not to like it and even criticize it, but I take issue when people say devs not allowed to do it just because angry fans on internet.
 
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Shinobitron

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I'm not saying people shouldn't allowed not to like it and even criticize it, but I take issue when people say devs not allowed to do it just because angry fans on internet.
Yeah i'm not saying they aren't allowed to either, by all means they can make what they want, but that also means people have the right to say whatever they want about said product.

Freedom of speech is a tricky thing, people want the ability to speak their mind, And people also have the right to criticize that persons freedom to speak lol
 
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PresetError

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For all the fuss about TLOU2's SJW agenda it didn't have a ton of political statements IMO. The ones I could find were kind of accessory.

If you compare the 2018 God of War with previous games of the same IP it was alredy toned down and devoided of "problematic" aspects of the franchise. But I will be very surprised if the next God of War falls into the virtue signaling videogame category.
 

zkorejo

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Yeah Kratos will get his sex changed because his son misses his mother. Then he will kill all the Norse gods for deadnaming him.
 
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Kokoloko85

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I had the same conversation with my brother.

Theres not much they can do with it... make Loki gay? Make a female character kill Kratos and Loki has to get revenge with his non binary partner?

I doubt they can mess with it too much.
 

Paracelsus

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Holy mother of god. TLOU2 had no LGBT agenda, that was not the agenda. Representation in itself is not an agenda, not always.


It's ok if you want to pretend identity politics do not influence writing, but that's you. They do.

Abby has a man's body and power not because of trans sensibilities but because they totally wanted Joel's gameplay but they didn't want a man to replace Joel, and with a woman in that position it's easier to emotionally manipulate the audience.

Common sense and pure logic would tell you to have a man if you want Joel's gameplay, especially if the character is doing something bad to beloved characters.
Can you imagine Abby's story and actions as a character like Isaac or Manny? It would be a shitstorm. Bad plot for any man really).

With a woman they could take more writing liberties. A man crying as he caves in another man's skull in is not as simpathetic.
All they wanted was for you to totally accept Joel deserved to die, Abby deserved her revenge, Abby did not deserve to die, and you would love TLOU3 starring Abby. That's it.

The only way they used LGBT for was "Abby fights for trans rights". It was them using a noble cause to get you to like the new replacement for Joel.

It would be okay to let it go if you didn't a. pretend it doesn't exist and b. thought it was a different deal.
There's like 361 threads about it and it won't stop because people are scared to call it out, but that's what it is.

Jaffe mentioned Zelda: Neogaf (2012-2017) flipped its shit when the feminine Link in BOTW was still a man.
They didn't want Linkle, they didn't want playable Zelda. They wanted female Link. Possibly lesbian, but that wasn't the point.

The proof so many people are focused on the LGBT means it worked. If anything, Abby as a trans woman would make way more sense from a gameplay perspective.


You wanna know what the best part of this type of writing is?
It works flawlessly with no agenda whatsoever. It's classical conditioning, like Nike tweeting for noble causes while doing this. You automatically care about the flag and not what Nike truly is.

All you have to say is "it's different" (subverted expectations) and the open minded lemming (...) will buy into it because it's different, it's shocking and they don't know what's gonna happen. Doesn't matter if the writing makes no sense or it's straight up garbage, it's different.

====

I mean, after all, you're focused on the fact God of War may have pronouns and not the fact they turned a badass action game into a movie.
 

TintoConCasera

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"Loki is the father of Narfi and/or Nari. By the stallion Svaðilfari, Loki is the mother—giving birth in the form of a mare—to the eight-legged horse Sleipnir."
You mean the guy who turned himself into a mare to be fucked by a stallion and gives birth?

Damn you again SJWs!
Now that's queer as fuck man. Guess those nordlings where years ahead of us.
 
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Holy mother of god. TLOU2 had no LGBT agenda, that was not the agenda. Representation in itself is not an agenda, not always.


It's ok if you want to pretend identity politics do not influence writing, but that's you. They do.

Abby has a man's body and power not because of trans sensibilities but because they totally wanted Joel's gameplay but they didn't want a man to replace Joel, and with a woman in that position it's easier to emotionally manipulate the audience.

Common sense and pure logic would tell you to have a man if you want Joel's gameplay, especially if the character is doing something bad to beloved characters.
Can you imagine Abby's story and actions as a character like Isaac or Manny? It would be a shitstorm. Bad plot for any man really).

With a woman they could take more writing liberties. A man crying as he caves in another man's skull in is not as simpathetic.
All they wanted was for you to totally accept Joel deserved to die, Abby deserved her revenge, Abby did not deserve to die, and you would love TLOU3 starring Abby. That's it.

The only way they used LGBT for was "Abby fights for trans rights". It was them using a noble cause to get you to like the new replacement for Joel.

It would be okay to let it go if you didn't a. pretend it doesn't exist and b. thought it was a different deal.
There's like 361 threads about it and it won't stop because people are scared to call it out, but that's what it is.

Jaffe mentioned Zelda: Neogaf (2012-2017) flipped its shit when the feminine Link in BOTW was still a man.
They didn't want Linkle, they didn't want playable Zelda. They wanted female Link. Possibly lesbian, but that wasn't the point.

The proof so many people are focused on the LGBT means it worked. If anything, Abby as a trans woman would make way more sense from a gameplay perspective.


You wanna know what the best part of this type of writing is?
It works flawlessly with no agenda whatsoever. It's classical conditioning, like Nike tweeting for noble causes while doing this. You automatically care about the flag and not what Nike truly is.

All you have to say is "it's different" (subverted expectations) and the open minded lemming (...) will buy into it because it's different, it's shocking and they don't know what's gonna happen. Doesn't matter if the writing makes no sense or it's straight up garbage, it's different.

====

I mean, after all, you're focused on the fact God of War may have pronouns and not the fact they turned a badass action game into a movie.
 

Vanitymachine

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Aug 24, 2019
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Kratos dies in some act of toxic masculinity, Krato's wife becomes protagonist spend the rest of the game emasculating the boy and teaching him the dangers of his father's toxic masculinity.
 

Skifi28

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Jun 28, 2020
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We have now evolved to proactively whining about games that have not even been announced yet based on social media likes. This place is going downhill fast. I give it a few more months and there won't be any actual discussion on games.

The first page is always overflowing with crap like this or who canceled who or came out that have barely anything to do with gaming.
 
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martino

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GAF really starts to piss me off and makes me not want to browse here anymore. Ever since the leaks of TLOU2 this forum has become a playground for edgy republicans. Every single topic is being infested with this political bullshit. How many borderline retarded posts do we need? Why are the admins not stepping in?

How fragile do you have to be to get so offended by a game displaying gay or trans characters? Who is actually thinking that this "HiDdEn AgEnDa" is actually influencing people?!?! We are talking about a mature game for a mature audience. Are some of you scared to turn gay or trans? Are you scared to get infected with a liberal mindset? What is it? For the life of me, I don´t understand this whole thing...
The thing i love the most is choice of words and the Orwellian narrative "Leftist are fascist because they force it on us"
When in fact they can't accept some games do it or it needs their validation (Orwellian again)
Liberty of speech is for everyone and in democracy when at some point your views loose ground you need to deal with it.
Us "leftist" do it for years now, if times change you will have to learn it and engage if it's really that important for you. (not really speaking to you shubik here )
 
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Bartski

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"Loki is the father of Narfi and/or Nari. By the stallion Svaðilfari, Loki is the mother—giving birth in the form of a mare—to the eight-legged horse Sleipnir."
You mean the guy who turned himself into a mare to be fucked by a stallion and gives birth?

Damn you again SJWs!
so should the ability to transition and detransition at will be part of a skill tree?
 

Enjay

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Feb 18, 2009
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Starting an argument with someone with the mindstate that its fruitless and that the other person is blind sure as hell sounds like a hopeless project....


But let´s still try:

- No, I wouldn´t say that Ellies sexuality was tagged on in the DLC. The DLC simply added to
- Lev's sexuality being a thing in the story makes absolute sense. The last of us was always full of private and personal stories. That's the point of the game. And in this context it also makes sense. Gay/trans people exist in the real world. Why should you not include such a character in the game? And in the context of the story, it makes sense as well. we have a crazy and brutal doomsday cult that is torturing people. How do you think such a cult would react to such a kid? It also wasn´t a major story point. Just another personal story in this cycle of violence
- A monster lady? come on... yes she had big arms but nothing crazy. You saw in the stadium they have a gym and in such a world it makes sense to be tough and buff
- all women acting like men?!?! Hard disagree. Same for that Ellie is written like a man. Yes, she has mannerisms but she is still a vulnerable girl beneath all that tough shit. look at how she acts with Dina when Jesse comes. Or the joint smoking scene. You just choose to ignore those parts but they are still in the game...
- and last but not least... no, not everyone is ugly. I still think Ellie looks cute and Dina is also very feminine
You do not have the xp level needed for this tactic.
 
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GreenAlien

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The thing i love the most is choice of words and the Orwellian narrative "Leftist are fascist because they force it on us"
When in fact they can't accept some games do it or it needs their validation (Orwellian again)
Are you really that unaware? That game doesn't exist in a vacuum.
 

Lord Yellow

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And when you reach just before the third act, and there's that beautiful scene where you spend 5 minutes just staring at the sunset - all those moments of cringe you experienced many many hours ago dissolve into a sense of understanding that these two do really love each other.
Jesus H Christ...... It sounds like a Mills & Boon book :messenger_neutral:
 

Merzbear

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GoW already changed Kratos for the better. He's a better Joel than Joel ever was. I think at worse some God's may get gender swapped but other than that I can't see anything too radical happening.
 
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Hobbygaming

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Uncharted: Cassie, Chloe, Nadine.
The Last of Us: Lev, Abby, Dina, Ellie.
Horizon 2: Aloy
Spiderman 2: Miles Morales
Project Athia: unnamed Black woman
Returnal: unnamed White woman
Demon's Souls: character creator
Ratchet: furry

I think it's a foregone conclusion, especially since they love to sneak those things in pre-established series to ride that success.
They already evirated the gameplay for modern audiences, time to go all the way.
What is wrong with diversity? Also your list is missing these characters that don't support your narrative

Deacon - white male
Jin - Japanese male
Sam Porter Bridges - white male
Kid from Concrete Genie - white male

And there's nothing wrong with playing white men, black, Japanese, any race is cool it should be about the game's content
 

Zekra Dezivad

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Could you explain what the SJW agenda in TLOU2 was?

I mean, there are gay characters, a whole two of them (or one and a half, I guess). There's also a person, who goes against the gender norms in his society, but again, I don't think that's pushing an agenda.

I doubt you'll see much of that in GoW. But at the same time, I fail to see the agenda. And no, you don't need to link that one video from a random youtuber.
People talks about "sjw" themes putting together everything that is close to minorities, lbtg, women, diversity, inclusion, etc... without making distinctions or rational thinking.
I suppose that, the way today people use the term "sjw" to identify such themes, we possibly can see why tlou2 hits the spotlitght.
As a gamer who is a lot analytical, I tend to notice things about game design and design in general. Also, I pay attention in characters and the way they are handled, to have my own impression of what the author/s want to express.
In Tlou2 I'd say that I've noticed a strong "sjw" (again, in the most general way possibile. In my country the term sjw doesn't exist so maybe I can be using it worng) component. Ofc talking about the two love-triangles introduced at the very beginning where I can see that diversity was a key design rule.
We have a gay character, a jewish bisexual character, an asian american, a masculine woman, two americans, two pregnancies
.
There's a lot to talk about that, but I think we can safely assume that's totally fair for authors and artists to make decisions like these and tell the story they want to tell. Tlou2 isn't a checklist, so I don't see the problem others are pointing out.
To be honest, themes and key design rules are there.

I also thinks that tlous2 problems reside in the way they chose to tell the story, rather than the characters that are undoubtedly unique in the gaming landscape, and that can't be a bad thing in itself. If think that Ellie and Abby don't start with equal consideration for the player, so the narrative outside the ingame universe isn't working and it doesn't click with me at all. But that's is another story.
 
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