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[Ekai]

So this is lovely news.

The show usually involves light-hearted jokes, petty scats, and shallow comments about their viewers’ appearances, but Willam took things too far in a question about trans people.
It was sparked by an email from a female viewer who has asked for advice about dating a transgender man, and feeling uneasy about him not having a penis.
While Courtney Act tried to give some good advice, Willam stunned viewers by insisting: “just because you cut your titties off and take testosterone, that doesn’t change your chromosomes.”
Willam referenced the murder of Brandon Teena, a trans man who was brutally raped and murdered in Nebraska in 1993, whose real-life story was told in the 1999 movie ‘Boys Don’t Cry’.

The drag artist incredibly appeared to try and justify Brandon’s murder, saying: “He bamboozled the girl… he was trans but he could have told them.”
Addressing the person asking for advice, William added: “Here’s the thing, he’s not your boyfriend if he’s not a boy and he’s not f**king you… just because someone says they’re a boy, doesn’t make them a boy.
“If they haven’t had the science [referring to hormones/surgery], they’re not a boy yet. Just because you cut your titties off and take testosterone, that doesn’t change your chromosomes.”
Courtney Act derided Willam’s comments as “transphobic”, before noting that the quote mirrors trans-exclusionary feminist author Germaine Greer, who claimed that “just because you lop off your d**k and then wear a dress, that doesn’t make you a f***ing woman.”

Can't say I'm surprised given Ru Paul himself says some pretty transphobic shit but it's incredibly disheartening to have something like this so publicly out there be a representation to many for how to view trans matters. It's just another reason why it's always irksome when people go to that show as a source for how to view the subject when it has people like that and Ru Paul saying the things they do. Part of it is a misunderstanding on the viewers fault for conflating crossdressing with trans matters but still. The two have intersected on the show itself often enough that it's now attached in a sense.

Justify my topic closing if old.

 

[Slayven]

Not all your skinfolk are your kinfolk

 

[Ekai]

Not all your skinfolk are your kinfolk

E'yup. Honestly I just hope more people realize there are differences between the two communities itself. Disheartening to see this kind of thing coming from someone closely attached. That this was said in response to someone asking about dating someone who is trans is just even more scummy.

 

[meltingparappa]

Of course it's Willam.

 

[HStallion]

What vile ignorant shit and from someone you would think would know better.

 

[Platy]

Really shitty to hear how transphobic are some other LGB people.

Specially weird in this show that had lots of trans women along the seasons

edit : kudos for Courtney for talking some truths

 

[How About No]

Wow, fucking morons really do come from all walks of life

 

[Sai-kun]

welp

there's a milkshake duck for me

fuck willam

 

[Amalthea]

This pretentious clown can stick his leg up his arse.

 

[Cepheus]

Disgusting.

I told my sister about this and she told me to 'not get so easily offended'. Like, what the shit? She hero-worships Drag Race and to her, none of the queens can do any wrong

 

[LionPride]

Yikes anyways...

welp

there's a milkshake duck for me

fuck willam

Can we stop trying to make this shit a thing

It's fucking dumb

That is all

 

[Cepheus]

Yikes anyways...

Can we stop trying to make this shit a thing

It's fucking dumb

That is all

Too late. Milkshake duck has been a thing for months

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Damn, met Willam once at a show here and she was really nice in person. That fucking sucks to hear.

Courtney Act is a class act.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Yikes anyways...

Can we stop trying to make this shit a thing

It's fucking dumb

That is all

People angrily denouncing 'milkshake duck' are milkshake ducks from now on.

 

[Izuna]

Isn't this just the old drag queens aren't trans allies thing?

 

[KmA]

Fuck it was Willam I always liked her. But that is honestly some fucked up shit there are a ton of trans women who are drag performers. They are a huge part of the community.

 

[Ekai]

Isn't this just the old drag queens aren't trans allies thing?

That was part of my point, yes. Not all of them of course but it's a general rule of thumb that that's a thing. That the two are conflated bothers me but they are also conflated for a reason since there have been a few trans contestants. Further disheartening for me because of the platform they have for saying this kind of thing.

 

[cartographer]

When you find yourself adapting TERF rhetoric...

The last thread on here I read about trans dating had a lot of people either implying or outright espousing the bamboozled / deception / tricked line of thought. Here's hoping this is different.

 

[LionPride]

Too late. Milkshake duck has been a thing for months

Outside of here?


I never get the vitriol towards trans women and men, like why are what they are doing hurting you so much?

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Outside of here?


I never get the vitriol towards trans women and men, like why are what they are doing hurting you so much?

Are any GAFisms a thing outside of GAF?

And "Trans people done bamboozled me. I felt the wrong parts down there and now I gotta kill em for tricking me!"

 

[LionPride]

Are any GAFisms a thing outside of GAF?

And "Trans people done bamboozled me. I felt the wrong parts down there and now I gotta kill em for tricking me!"

I've said before that I personally wouldn't date a trans woman, but I ain't gonna get mad if I go on a date with a woman and find out she's trans. Like that shit ain't deep enough to wanna kill. Your pride ain't fucking at stake. Your boys won't clown you about it and act like you did something gross. Like...the fuck?

 

[Ekai]

When you find yourself adapting TERF rhetoric...

The last thread on here I read about trans dating had a lot of people either implying or outright espousing the bamboozled / deception / tricked line of thought. Here's hoping this is different.

We'll see how things go, I guess.

Outside of here?


I never get the vitriol towards trans women and men, like why are what they are doing hurting you so much?

I see milkshake duck used elsewhere as well. Not as often, I guess but I do see it.

People are scared of things that are different, feels it devalues their own femininity/masculinity, feel like they've been "tricked" because of shitty 80s/90s comedy that pushed that kind of view on things, it' makes them an 'abomination
of god denying science, truth reason" etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. pick your reason, there's lots of them and they're all pretty filmsy.

Disgusting.

I told my sister about this and she told me to 'not get so easily offended'. Like, what the shit? She hero-worships Drag Race and to her, none of the queens can do any wrong

If she hero-worships them, and there have been trans contestants, she should be able to put two and two together here.

 

[Blackthorn]

Oof jeez that wasn’t even an insensitive slip of the tongue or a poor attempt at shock humour like I might expect from Willam, that was full on hate speech.

Bye gurl. And bye anyone who backs her up.

 

[Nista]

Well this just further cofirms that it was sensible to not like Willam back then. Keeping that shitty Hollywood attitude to hate on others. It's good that Courtney tries to give fans real advice in dealing with a tough situation.

 

[Camwi]

Yikes anyways...

Can we stop trying to make this shit a thing

It's fucking dumb

That is all

Why? It's much easier to say than "famous person who I used to like until they said and/or did something really fucked-up".

 

[Sai-kun]

Yikes anyways...

Can we stop trying to make this shit a thing

It's fucking dumb

That is all

avatar quote lmfao please love yourself

 

[lenovox1]

Willam Belli has sense apologized and released a "conversation" video on YouTube with her, Courtney, and Alaska talking about the ramifications of her words and "jokes." And on Suck Less, Willam does go very, very far with her trash, bitch persona. That doesn't make her jokes and her ignorance okay.


https://youtu.be/JSKS8YK3gpM

During the video, she pretty much personally calls to references all of the trans and hyperqueen (female drag queens that lipsync to female songs) friends to personally apologize and explain her positions.

They're not good positions, but she never claims that she's right in any of the exchanges.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

I've said before that I personally wouldn't date a trans woman, but I ain't gonna get mad if I go on a date with a woman and find out she's trans. Like that shit ain't deep enough to wanna kill. Your pride ain't fucking at stake. Your boys won't clown you about it and act like you did something gross. Like...the fuck?

Kids today still latch onto some real outdated notions of masculinity a little too hard.

Also, can someone more informed correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ftm genital surgery more difficult and far behind than mtf? Some would opt to keep their original genitalia because the ftm technology isn't quite there yet?

 

[Soulscribe]

This is sad, and it shows how ignorance runs even inside the community. From videos I've seen prior, Willam always seemed respectful about gendering people correctly and showing some level of kinship, so the fact that someone we perceive to be a staunch ally still needs to be educated this severely is disheartening. He has a lot of trans friends (or had) so I hope he learns from this.

As the first post says, one can't assume that everyone in a community thinks as a monolith. Sadly even people "in our corner" need to be corrected and educated, and if those people are truly allies then they'll take that correction and learn to be better from it. It pains me that trans people have to hear this shit from a drag queen of all people, so I'm happy that the backlash is big.

Also, I always knew Courtney Act was an amazing person and this video proved it. So glad she rebutted his ignorance by laying down the facts.

 

[LionPride]

Kids today still latch onto some real outdated notions of masculinity a little too hard.

Also, can someone more informed correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ftm genital surgery more difficult and far behind than mtf? Some would opt to keep their original genitalia because the ftm technology isn't quite there yet?

it's expensive as all fuck too

 

[lenovox1]

This is sad, and it shows how ignorance runs even inside the community. From videos I've seen prior, Willam always seemed respectful about gendering people correctly and showing some level of kinship, so the fact that someone we perceive to be a staunch ally still needs to be educated this severely is disheartening. He has a lot of trans friends (or had) so I hope he learns from this.

As the first post says, one can't assume that everyone in a community thinks as a monolith. Sadly even people "in our corner" need to be corrected and educated, and if those people are truly allies then they'll take that correction and learn to be better from it. It pains me that trans people have to hear this shit from a drag queen of all people, so I'm happy that the backlash is big.

Also, I always knew Courtney Act was an amazing person and this video proved it. So glad she rebutted his ignorance by laying down the facts.

After watching "The Conversation Continues...", I think that's a fair take on things. I think he has learned a lot from this, but you can clearly tell from the beginning of the video to the end that it takes a lot of oil to get the wheels turning in the right direction.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

God damn, what I piece of shit willam is!

Courtney did the perfect job of not letting it slide and giving the perfect advice. Good for her.

 

[Choppasmith]

I've said before that I personally wouldn't date a trans woman, but I ain't gonna get mad if I go on a date with a woman and find out she's trans. Like that shit ain't deep enough to wanna kill. Your pride ain't fucking at stake. Your boys won't clown you about it and act like you did something gross. Like...the fuck?

Yeah as a teen, I would see this in crime shows like CSI, Law and Order, whatever. "But, she was actually a guy! How dare HE fool me! It was natural that I killed him!" and thought it was ridiculous that people actually thought like that, if you're attracted and you "click" with each other who cares? I'd like to think I'd just shrug and continue.

 

[DemWalls]

Also, can someone more informed correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ftm genital surgery more difficult and far behind than mtf? Some would opt to keep their original genitalia because the ftm technology isn't quite there yet?

I can confirm on the first part. I once watched some kind of documentary on the matter, and a doctor said, without going into much detail, that creating functioning artificial male genitalia is more difficult with respect to the female counterpart. Actually, I think he said something along the lines of "a bit more complicated", but honestly the tone he used made it seem quite an understatement.

 

[Mechazawa]

Outside of here?

Are any GAFisms a thing outside of GAF?

It literally started and picked up steam on Twitter.

 

[Oppo]

Outside of here?

i have never heard milkshake duck outside of here

 

[JustenP88]

I don't know anything about RDR, but Willam seems like a dick who needs to shut the fuck up.

Also, I didn't know people thought milkshake duck was a GAF thing. I thought it was a 'lefty Twitter' thing that we had a thread about: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/milkshake-duck?full=1

 

[Ekai]

Willam Belli has sense apologized and released a "conversation" video on YouTube with her, Courtney, and Alaska talking about the ramifications of her words and "jokes." And on Suck Less, Willam does go very, very far with her trash, bitch persona. That doesn't make her jokes and her ignorance okay.


https://youtu.be/JSKS8YK3gpM

During the video, she pretty much personally calls to references all of the trans and hyperqueen (female drag queens that lipsync to female songs) friends to personally apologize and explain her positions.

They're not good positions, but she never claims that she's right in any of the exchanges.

I'll watch the video but I find it hard to find accept an apology of someone who defended trans panic murder.

This is sad, and it shows how ignorance runs even inside the community. From videos I've seen prior, Willam always seemed respectful about gendering people correctly and showing some level of kinship, so the fact that someone we perceive to be a staunch ally still needs to be educated this severely is disheartening. He has a lot of trans friends (or had) so I hope he learns from this.

As the first post says, one can't assume that everyone in a community thinks as a monolith. Sadly even people "in our corner" need to be corrected and educated, and if those people are truly allies then they'll take that correction and learn to be better from it. It pains me that trans people have to hear this shit from a drag queen of all people, so I'm happy that the backlash is big.

Also, I always knew Courtney Act was an amazing person and this video proved it. So glad she rebutted his ignorance by laying down the facts.

I'll have to check out more of Courtney Act. I do hope they learn from this but...yea. Very disheartening.

Kids today still latch onto some real outdated notions of masculinity a little too hard.

Also, can someone more informed correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ftm genital surgery more difficult and far behind than mtf? Some would opt to keep their original genitalia because the ftm technology isn't quite there yet?

I'm not sure to be honest. I have heard that however.

 

[Stoop Man]

My gf is obsessed with drag race. She's trans, too, so I wonder if I'll be hearing about this from her in a few days.

I'm not surprised it was Willam. He seemed really, really dumb

 

[Ekai]

So I watched that apology video and...

I'm sorry but I just don't fully buy it. He outright says: "this isn't me trying to gain sympathy or just saying things for publicity" numerous times, entirely unprompted by anything...and also essentially uses the "I have trans friends, therefore I can't be transphobic" defense.

He seems...somewhat open to learning which is something at lesst.

My gf is obsessed with drag race. She's trans, too, so I wonder if I'll be hearing about this from her in a few days.

I'm not surprised it was Willam. He seemed really, really dumb

Maybe let her know.

 

[Wilsongt]

It's Willam, so I am not overly surprised.

But, it's also... Willam. Who absolutely worships trans model Gigi Gorgeous.

I expected something like this to come more from Tyra, but that's just me.

Still, Courtney stepping up just shows how classy she is in general.

 

[Platy]

Also, can someone more informed correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ftm genital surgery more difficult and far behind than mtf? Some would opt to keep their original genitalia because the ftm technology isn't quite there yet?

Yes.
You either have a functional one that is ridiculously small or a normal sized one which you need to pump it

 

[Tagyhag]

How does someone like him not understand that sex and gender are two different things?

Yes.
You either have a functional one that is ridiculously small or a normal sized one which you need to pump it

Wow, the fact that you can have a functional one, regardless of size, is pretty damn cool. I didn't know we were that far technology-wise.

 

[Soulscribe]

So I watched that apology video and...

I'm sorry but I just don't fully buy it. He outright says: "this isn't me trying to gain sympathy or just saying things for publicity" numerous times, entirely unprompted by anything...and also essentially uses the "I have trans friends, therefore I can't be transphobic" defense.

He seems...somewhat open to learning which is something at lesst.




Maybe let her know.

I mean, he has a responsibility both as a person in public and as a gay person to own the mistake and educate himself about it, so I can’t really fault him for making a video and clarifying that it’s not purely meant to repair an image. He seems aware that he let his audience down so it’s healthy that he responded to it quickly and is wanting to learn. That’s how you know you have an ally. If a person didn’t actually give a shit about trans people or didn’t feel somewhat invested in the community, he/she would have either ignored the backlash or reacted defensively. Willam is narcissistic and way too irreverent for his platform but he’s showing remorse and humility, and that’s good.

This isn’t the first or last time we’ll see people in our corner show a blind spot or say something they don’t realize is inflammatory and inaccurate. As long as we’re catching it, calling them out and educating them on the error then we’re doing our jobs.

 

[Ekai]

I mean, he has a responsibility both as a person in public and as a gay person to own the mistake and educate himself about it, so I can't really fault him for making a video and clarifying that it's not purely meant to repair an image. He seems aware that he let his audience down so it's healthy that he responded to it quickly and is wanting to learn. That's how you know you have an ally. If a person didn't actually give a shit about trans people or didn't feel somewhat invested in the community, he/she would have either ignored the backlash or reacted defensively. Willam is narcissistic and way too irreverent for his platform but he's showing remorse and humility, and that's good.

This isn't the first or last time we'll see people in our corner show a blind spot or say something they don't realize is inflammatory and inaccurate. As long as we're catching it, calling them out and educating them on the error then we're doing our jobs.

I suppose, I just have a hard time with forgiving that kind of thing....so,yea...hard to view as an ally.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I mean, he has a responsibility both as a person in public and as a gay person to own the mistake and educate himself about it, so I can’t really fault him for making a video and clarifying that it’s not purely meant to repair an image. He seems aware that he let his audience down so it’s healthy that he responded to it quickly and is wanting to learn. That’s how you know you have an ally. If a person didn’t actually give a shit about trans people or didn’t feel somewhat invested in the community, he/she would have either ignored the backlash or reacted defensively. Willam is narcissistic and way too irreverent for his platform but he’s showing remorse and humility, and that’s good.

This isn’t the first or last time we’ll see people in our corner show a blind spot or say something they don’t realize is inflammatory and inaccurate. As long as we’re catching it, calling them out and educating them on the error then we’re doing our jobs.

No no no.

He might have apologized but he doesn't get to be considered an ally.

 

[Platy]

yeah you need a little bit more to be an ally =P

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Very sad to see Willam say stuff like this. Also, what has RuPaul done here that's transphobic?

 

[lenovox1]

Very sad to see Willam say stuff like this. Also, what has RuPaul done here that's transphobic?

Used outdated language and said a transphobic joke on Drag Race once. Nothing as bad as what Willam just did.

http://yourfaveisproblematic.tumblr.com/post/90435913006/rupaul

 

[Stare-Bear]

Used outdated language and said a transphobic joke on Drag Race once. Nothing as bad as what Willam just did.

http://yourfaveisproblematic.tumblr.com/post/90435913006/rupaul

Oh puhlease... How dare we go after Rupaul? He’s done so much work for the LGBT community. So easy for these keyboard warriors of tumblr to critize one of the icons of the LGBT community.