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[Plinko]

It's simply about the console that more of your friends have for many people. The 360 having better multiplats (visually) definitely helped it but what helped it more in terms of being the go to system for multiplats was its one year head start, it's $200 cheaper price than the PS3, and Xbox Live.

PS2 was the weakest system out of the three for its gen but it got the majority of game sales mainly due to it still being a huge improvement over the PS1, its head start over the competition, and its ability to play DVDs. Millions still bought PS2s years after the Xbox and GameCube released (systems with better versions of multiplats) due to the PS2 simply being the more popular system with it also having great game support. It's funny too because the multiplatform gap between the PS2 and original Xbox was the biggest out of any gen so far.

This is part of the reason why I feel that power isn't going to mean much in terms of Nintendo's next console. They are already too far behind when it comes to online play for most people to even consider wanting to buy a system from Nintnedo to play multiplats. I guess it could be considered the wrong attitude to have by some but I honestly feel that this is the reason why Nintendo should make sure their next console is in the $150-250 range. Most are only going to view it as a "Nintnedo box" regardless of how powerful the system may be over the Xbox and Playstation.

I think we're at the point with the home console market, though, where an inferior console power-wise is automatically discredited by the vast, vast majority of consumers in said market. They can't take that route again. They need some of those consumers back--even as a secondary system alongside a PS4/5.

 

[Oregano]

1) Doesn't Mevius or Mobius or whatever it is called run on high end smartphones? The NX's portable iteration will probably cost no more than $129. You have to target a few years older in tech I think.

2) I do not think the "console" version will be a super scaled up version of the handheld. I'm thinking like 3DS to New 3DS in terms of added graphical features + ability to run games in 1080p a la Ouya (PS Vita TV doesn't even do that).

I'm not actually sure what Mobius can and cannot run on but I'm making a few liberal assumptions:

1. The handheld will launch at around $180
2. It'll have more system resources devoted to running games than mobiles.
3. AMD will give them a favourable deal.

Most importantly I think Nintendo will want it as close to Wii U so that they can reuse assets as much as possible and port over titles.

 

[Drilbit777]

Just gonna leave this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdFToeR_DJk

Man that was just hard to watch... I really hope Nintendo can bring back 3rd parties with NX..

 

[Hermii]

Basically. They told us (by us I mean the company bigwigs) that it was very similar to the Xbox360 but with more power. They said it would be easy to port current games on ps3/360 with ease and have plenty of resources to enhance them. Then the corporate head office got the first dev kit and ran some benchmarks... It was pretty disappointing. But even then we held out hope that the iteration they got was the real deal. Then our kit arrived and confirmed that the wiiu was not the box we had expected.

We ultimately cancelled all our planned wiiu games due to this. We had not allocated the resources to completely rebuild our projects to span wiiu and 360/ps3. A couple of our studios did eventually do some late ports that turned out ok, but took too large of a resource to accomplish and sold poorly.

All that said I am a huge nintendo fan still (play tons of wiiu) and very hopeful of the NX. If Nintendo is being honest with third party and they like it, they might just woo them back.

That sounds just like something Reggie would say to a journalist.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Yeah, I can see them releasing two systems that share the same games (that scale depending on what they're on).

I'd actually be okay with that. It would also be cool if the handheld could also be used as a controller for the console.

Which doesn't seem to far fetched.

 

[Father_Brain]

People buying Wii U at launch were enthusiasts who more than likely already owned the late ports the system received. In December 2012 I had a PS3, a 360, and a PC. Any other customers enthusiastic enough to buy gaming hardware at launch had some combination of these systems as well, why would I or any of these people have bought a title like Mass Effect 3 for the Wii U in large numbers? Especially when they could have bought the Mass Effect Trilogy for a lower price on another system.

There is no point for Nintendo to chase the support of AAA publishers. The customers for that market have made their choice already and thanks to Valve/MS/Sony's work on account services, a lot of these customers want to stick with the ecosystem they've bought into. Even if a significant number of enthusiasts buy a Nintendo system they most likely aren't buying multiplatform titles on it.

Major publishers will only come back when there is visible proof of a market for their titles on Nintendo hardware. Until then Nintendo need to rely on first-party software, their existing 3rd party partnerships and smaller publishers/independent developers.

Exactly.

Better specs might have meant more and better ports, but they wouldn't have changed Nintendo's garbage network services, weak relationships with Western third parties, and near-nonexistent first-party support targeted at the Western core market.

They were in no position to cultivate any sort of audience for AAA multiplats on their hardware, and by most indications, they still aren't.

 

[Bgamer90]

I think we're at the point with the home console market, though, where an inferior console power-wise is automatically discredited by the vast, vast majority of consumers in said market. They can't take that route again. They need some of those consumers back--even as a secondary system alongside a PS4/5.

I think it simply depends on when a console is released. The Xbox One and PS4 released at pretty much the exact same time -- comparisons were obviously going to happen. A weaker console can still do well if it has a big enough head start and sales (obviously) to the point in which its viewed as being the go to system before its competitors are released.

I agree that Nintendo's next system needs to at least be more powerful than the Xbox One and the PS4 for people to take it seriously but I (again) don't feel it's going to help the system much. Nintendo is so far behind the online "play with my friends" game that its power isn't going to matter for the majority of people who are looking to buy a new console during whatever year Nintendo's new system releases.

_________________________

People buying Wii U at launch were enthusiasts who more than likely already owned the late ports the system received. In December 2012 I had a PS3, a 360, and a PC. Any other customers enthusiastic enough to buy gaming hardware at launch had some combination of these systems as well, why would I or any of these people have bought a title like Mass Effect 3 for the Wii U in large numbers? Especially when they could have bought the Mass Effect Trilogy for a lower price on another system.

There is no point for Nintendo to chase the support of AAA publishers. The customers for that market have made their choice already and thanks to Valve/MS/Sony's work on account services, a lot of these customers want to stick with the ecosystem they've bought into. Even if a significant number of enthusiasts buy a Nintendo system they most likely aren't buying multiplatform titles on it.

Major publishers will only come back when there is visible proof of a market for their titles on Nintendo hardware. Until then Nintendo need to rely on first-party software, their existing 3rd party partnerships and smaller publishers/independent developers.

Missed this post. I 100% agree.

 

[Zornack]

Forcing all Nintendo IP to be designed with a handheld's power in mind sounds terrifying. But their home console business since the SNES has been a waste of resources, barring the Wii of course, so it's probably the direction we're headed.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

People buying Wii U at launch were enthusiasts who more than likely already owned the late ports the system received. In December 2012 I had a PS3, a 360, and a PC. Any other customers enthusiastic enough to buy gaming hardware at launch had some combination of these systems as well, why would I or any of these people have bought a title like Mass Effect 3 for the Wii U in large numbers? Especially when they could have bought the Mass Effect Trilogy for a lower price on another system.

There is no point for Nintendo to chase the support of AAA publishers. The customers for that market have made their choice already and thanks to Valve/MS/Sony's work on account services, a lot of these customers want to stick with the ecosystem they've bought into. Even if a significant number of enthusiasts buy a Nintendo system they most likely aren't buying multiplatform titles on it.

Major publishers will only come back when there is visible proof of a market for their titles on Nintendo hardware. Until then Nintendo need to rely on first-party software, their existing 3rd party partnerships and smaller publishers/independent developers.

Good point. The hardcore market is being served just fine by PC/XB1/PS4. It may simply be a case of there being no room at the table for Nintendo. Nintendo does need some form of 3rd party support, both for variety and to fill in release periods, but what it doesn't necessarily need is just to be able to run ports of Call of Duty and Mass Effect. I don't think having those games will do squat for Nintendo.

 

[Plinko]

If they DO end up releasing a console and handheld that share a library, are we back to cartridges again on a console? I can't see a handheld using discs again, and going all digital would make this DOA.

 

[Sadist]

So I take it Arkam heard some rumblings about NX?

 

[magnumpy]

It's simply about the console that more of your friends have for many people. The 360 having better multiplats (visually) definitely helped it but what helped it more in terms of being the go to system for multiplats was its one year head start, its $200 cheaper price than the PS3, and Xbox Live.

PS2 was the weakest system out of the three for its gen but it got the majority of game sales mainly due to it still being a huge improvement over the PS1, its head start over the competition, and its ability to play DVDs. Millions still bought PS2s years after the Xbox and GameCube released (systems with better versions of multiplats) due to the PS2 simply being the more popular system with it also having great game support. It's funny too because the multiplatform gap between the PS2 and original Xbox was the biggest out of any gen so far.

This is part of the reason why I feel that power isn't going to mean much in terms of Nintendo's next console. They are already too far behind when it comes to online play for most people to even consider wanting to buy a system from Nintendo to play multiplats. I guess it could be considered the wrong attitude to have by some but I honestly feel that this is the reason why Nintendo should make sure their next console is in the $150-250 range. Most are only going to view it as a "Nintnedo box" regardless of how powerful the system may be over the Xbox and Playstation.

wii-u costs $300. is the new system to be even weaker than wii-u? say they don't have the gamepad this time, that still doesn't get them to $150. best case scenario that gets them to $220 (?.) that's if the system is exactly as powerful as wii-u but without the gamepad.

$220 could be a possible price point for NX, however that scenario isn't very compelling IMO. but who knows, they might attract some people as a discount console? the "nintendo box" angle isn't very compelling, or else the wii-u would be selling like hotcakes as a "nintendo box." the audience for a "nintendo box" is very limited.

 

[Y2Kev]

Good point. The hardcore market is being served just fine by PC/XB1/PS4. It may simply be a case of there being no room at the table for Nintendo. Nintendo does need some form of 3rd party support, both for variety and to fill in release periods, but what it doesn't necessarily need is just to be able to run ports of Call of Duty and Mass Effect. I don't think having those games will do squat for Nintendo.

I can't really make the math work on this one.

If Wii's user base was diehard Nintendo fans + enthusiast gamers + "casual gamers" and for Wii U casual gamers left, let's say 100%, what happened to the enthusiast gamers?

It's just surprising to me. The system does have a lot of very hardcore, niche-oriented software. Are there really only 15 million hardcore + Nintendo fans out there? Kinda surprising to me.

 

[Biker19]

If they DO end up releasing a console and handheld that share a library, are we back to cartridges again on a console? I can't see a handheld using discs again, and going all digital would make this DOA.

Like Terrell said earlier, Solid-state memory (like SDXC cards) are getting more & more cheaper enough to make carts a viable option on consoles again. They have faster read speeds & a lot of space that already makes Blu-Ray obsolete.

The only obstacle that keeps them from going forward with this, are both production & manufacturing costs.

 

[thehillissilent]

I really wonder of they will use high end mobile CPU/GPU similar to Nvidia Shield TV (for home) and Nvdia Shield Portable (for portable). They would both run the same OS and most games would be cross-compatible. If the rumor is true that they can run Android games, then it will be very easy for NX to obtain 3rd party software. Nintendo will need to do some major curation so it won't end up like Apple or Google's App stores.

I don't really see Nintendo competing against MS or Sony on the high end anymore. It seems to be a losing battle. Also, Japan is heavily focused on mobile so it would make sense for them to go after the mobile market and incorporate that in to their strategy. I think Nintendo will go after Google/Apple instead.

AAA devs can port over their mobile games and Gameloft would have a field day. With engines such as Unreal 4, Unity 5, and Cryengine supporting mobile, we are going to still find impressive looking games. It won't be on the scale of PS4/X1, but they system will most likely support a modern graphic chipset standards.

 

[Maztorre]

that begs the question then, how much is enough?

having twice the output as wii-u would not be enough IMO. having three times as much would maybe be enough? maybe four times greater output than wii-u? five times? well then you're talking a great number of first party titles from nintendo, but that still wouldn't be enough IMO.

you absolutely NEED third party titles. it's not something that is an option, a good third party lineup is absolutely required, or else NX will suffer the same fate as wii-u. nintendo for example isn't going to make a competent competitor to GTAV. that is a hole that has to be plugged by third parties or it just isn't going to happen.

I should mention before I continue that when I referred to 3rd parties I meant the large, traditional western 3rd party publishers and their studios as opposed to smaller studios and the Japanese publishers Nintendo have had good relationships with.

I mostly agree with your first point, Nintendo in their current form cannot cover the demands of running a platform almost by themselves.

If their next system does indeed allow them to develop titles for their handheld/console platforms simultaneously then that will give them a significant boost in output. The problem with Nintendo's output right now though, is that there is too much overlap in genres and demographics. Releasing New Super Mario Bros U, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, Kirby Rainbow Paintbrush and then Yoshi's Woolly World year after year on a single console was recklessly wasteful and stupid of Nintendo, and I say this as someone who loves Nintendo characters and 2D platformers. Who are they attracting with these titles who wasn't already onboard by the time Tropical Freeze was announced?

I think Nintendo can do without the major 3rd parties, but it requires them to be proactive in a few different ways:

a) invest like crazy into 1st party development. Especially in the West.
b) develop in genres and demographics where they have massive gaps in coverage.
c) tie new characters to those genres that aren't part of existing franchises. Splatoon shows just how good they are at this even on a dead platform.
d) take advantage of any partnerships they can with Japanese publishers/indie studios.

I think if they take those steps, along with the rumoured Android-like environment, they could get significant 3rd party support outside of the major publishers that would cover their remaining gaps in their first party lineup.

 

[sörine]

I can't really make the math work on this one.

If Wii's user base was diehard Nintendo fans + enthusiast gamers + "casual gamers" and for Wii U casual gamers left, let's say 100%, what happened to the enthusiast gamers?

It's just surprising to me. The system does have a lot of very hardcore, niche-oriented software. Are there really only 15 million hardcore + Nintendo fans out there? Kinda surprising to me.

Presumably yes, or at least 15 million who aren't already being served well enough by 3DS for their Nintendo fix. Wii U alone doesn't encompass the upper limit of Nintendo's core audience.

 

[TwilightPrincess]

wii-u costs $300. is the new system to be even weaker than wii-u? say they don't have the gamepad this time, that still doesn't get them to $150. best case scenario that gets them to $220 (?.) that's if the system is exactly as powerful as wii-u but without the gamepad.

$220 could be a possible price point for NX, however that scenario isn't very compelling IMO. but who knows, they might attract some people as a discount console? the "nintendo box" angle isn't very compelling, or else the wii-u would be selling like hotcakes as a "nintendo box." the audience for a "nintendo box" is very limited.

No. If they aren´t stupid as hell or a have a costly gimmick they could have a much stronger hardware than Wii U for 220 Dollar. And i hope they don´t aim for 220 dollar (and very low powerconsumption).

 

[Herb Alpert]

So I take it Arkam heard some rumblings about NX?

I hope he won't be the bearer of bad news this time.
Nobody wanted to believe him back in the glorious days of the WUSTs.

Including myself. We were misled by some false messahia.

 

[Mithos]

2) I do not think the "console" version will be a super scaled up version of the handheld. I'm thinking like 3DS to New 3DS in terms of added graphical features + ability to run games in 1080p a la Ouya (PS Vita TV doesn't even do that).

Then I'll get a NeoGAF ban, because I'll port beg or/and want Nintendo to go third party.

 

[Kouriozan]

I'm getting some major WUSTs flashbacks.
Let's hope Nintendo won't throw a $150 gimmick that will be a burden to NX specs and price.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

It's just surprising to me. The system does have a lot of very hardcore, niche-oriented software. Are there really only 15 million hardcore + Nintendo fans out there? Kinda surprising to me.

It is evident that Nintendo fans defect every console generation. Outside of the outlier, the Wii which was a product that largely sold beyond the traditional gaming consumer to the general masses through atypical products like Wii Sports and Wii Fit. The numbers themselves do the talking;

Nintendo 64 33 million
GameCube 21.7 million
Wii U 9.5 million

The hardcore Nintendo fan isn't sticking around every console generation. Unlike SONY which has a high retention rate of its demographic by continuing the "Playstation" brand every generation, and seemingly continues procuring a a wider array of significant intellectual properties from first and third party publishing.

Nintendo consoles have been following an opposite trend, where each generation has started with an alienating controller of sorts, while having no guarantees of what franchises you will see; outside of a ton of Mario spin-offs.

 

[antonz]

$249-$299 will be the range Nintendo goes for. I would expect they will skip the ultra expensive controller so that should open them up to significant power gains if they want them. Then again they could surprise us all and try an overpriced gimmick again.

Tablet Controller was a great idea that arrived too late.

It is evident that Nintendo fans defect every console generation. Outside of the outlier, the Wii which was a product that largely sold beyond the traditional gaming consumer to the general masses through atypical products like Wii Sports and Wii Fit. The numbers themselves do the talking;

Nintendo 64 33 million
GameCube 21.7 million
Wii U 9.5 million

The hardcore Nintendo fan isn't sticking around every console generation. Unlike SONY which has a high retention rate of its demographic by continuing the "Playstation" brand every generation, and seemingly continues procuring a a wider array of significant intellectual properties from first and third party publishing.

Nintendo consoles have been following an opposite trend, where each generation has started with an alienating controller of sorts, while having no guarantees of what franchises you will see; outside of a ton of Mario spin-offs.

Sometimes I think Nintendo tries way too hard to be different and in the end it just pushes away the people who are ok with not being unique and just want overall access to as much as can be delivered from the Industry. Trying to stand out against all odds just leaves Nintendo standing high and dry and even the most loyal eventually get tired

 

[blu]

It is evident that Nintendo fans defect every console generation. Outside of the outlier, the Wii which was a product that largely sold beyond the traditional gaming consumer to the general masses through atypical products like Wii Sports and Wii Fit. The numbers themselves do the talking;

Nintendo 64 33 million
GameCube 21.7 million
Wii U 9.5 million

I hereby predict NX will sell between -1.5 and -2.5 million units.

Right but the less differentiated the releases are the less likely people are to double dip anyway. Mario Kart 7 released for both 3DS and Wii U would have sold significantly less than MK7 + MK8 combined but it would have taken a lot less resources which could have been spent elsewhere.

Or to use an especially relevant example the reason we don't have an Animal Crossing Wii U games is because the team split off to make Splatoon which is a massive hit for a Wii U game.

People aren't going to buy the same game across both platforms so resources would need to be spent to differentiate them. Whilst Nintendo might be interested in doing that due to the obligation to support their hardware third parties won't be willing to do that and would probably forgo the console SKU altogether.

Oh I agree. Nintendo would need to find a good trick to sell the consumer twice on a game. If they need to differentiate versions substantially, they will. But the new thing with the NX will be that supposedly that differentiation won't be as costly as it has been so far.

 

[Herb Alpert]

I hereby predict NX will sell between -1.5 and -2.5 million units.

 

[Oersted]

It is evident that Nintendo fans defect every console generation. Outside of the outlier, the Wii which was a product that largely sold beyond the traditional gaming consumer to the general masses through atypical products like Wii Sports and Wii Fit. The numbers themselves do the talking;

Nintendo 64 33 million
GameCube 21.7 million
Wii U 9.5 million

The hardcore Nintendo fan isn't sticking around every console generation. Unlike SONY which has a high retention rate of its demographic by continuing the "Playstation" brand every generation, and seemingly continues procuring a a wider array of significant intellectual properties from first and third party publishing.

Nintendo consoles have been following an opposite trend, where each generation has started with an alienating controller of sorts, while having no guarantees of what franchises you will see; outside of a ton of Mario spin-offs.

You are forgetting Zelda, Donkey Kong and Smash there. And Mario Kart isn't really a Mario spinoff at this point. And dropping IPs for a generation or longer is pretty normal for first parties at this point.

 

[Plinko]

It is evident that Nintendo fans defect every console generation. Outside of the outlier, the Wii which was a product that largely sold beyond the traditional gaming consumer to the general masses through atypical products like Wii Sports and Wii Fit. The numbers themselves do the talking;

Nintendo 64 33 million
GameCube 21.7 million
Wii U 9.5 million

The hardcore Nintendo fan isn't sticking around every console generation. Unlike SONY which has a high retention rate of its demographic by continuing the "Playstation" brand every generation, and seemingly continues procuring a a wider array of significant intellectual properties from first and third party publishing.

Nintendo consoles have been following an opposite trend, where each generation has started with an alienating controller of sorts, while having no guarantees of what franchises you will see; outside of a ton of Mario spin-offs.

Don't the handheld sales need to be included in a discussion of hardcore fans?

 

[bachikarn]

Sometimes I think Nintendo tries way too hard to be different and in the end it just pushes away the people who are ok with not being unique and just want overall access to as much as can be delivered from the Industry. Trying to stand out against all odds just leaves Nintendo standing high and dry and even the most loyal eventually get tired

yeah, in the end, trying to gain new audiences also alienates their old ones. I personally considered myself a Nintendo enthusiast, but I haven't bothered with the Wii U. I wish Nintendo went back to just being a really good game developer. Leave the innovations to the games, and not the hardware. Not sure how economically feasible that is, but that's all I want.

 

[antonz]

You are forgetting Zelda, Donkey Kong and Smash there. And Mario Kart isn't really a Mario spinoff at this point. And dropping IPs for a generation or longer is pretty normal for first parties at this point.

IPs are usually put to rest because franchise fatigue. Nintendo puts stuff to rest because suddenly they need a new hook or gimmick to justify making it. F-Zero sits gathering dust because as Miyamoto has flatly stated they aren't sure what to do with the franchise.

Sometimes you just have to make a new entry and follow the tried and true formula. everything does not need a new hook. Just like its ok to have a console that is similar to everyone else. Your games are what is supposed to sell the hardware

 

[GameGuru59]

I can't really make the math work on this one.

If Wii's user base was diehard Nintendo fans + enthusiast gamers + "casual gamers" and for Wii U casual gamers left, let's say 100%, what happened to the enthusiast gamers?

It's just surprising to me. The system does have a lot of very hardcore, niche-oriented software. Are there really only 15 million hardcore + Nintendo fans out there? Kinda surprising to me.

Not at all. That was about what the Game Cube sold isn't it? I imagine most companies would die for 15 million people they could sell to and expect them to consistently return.

 

[jimi_dini]

Outside of the outlier, the Wii which was a product that largely sold beyond the traditional gaming consumer to the general masses through atypical products like Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

May I remind you, that the Wii had almost the same attach rate as PS3+360?

So you can either say that the "general masses" only bought "atypical products" like Wii Sports and Wii Fit and nothing else. And that possibly the super Nintendo hardcore players bought 3 or 4 times as many games on Wii than what people bought on PS3+360 to get the attach rate to where it was.

Or maybe the general masses bought all sorts of games including "atypical products".

Calling "Wii Sports" an "atypical product". smh. It's a typical video game. It's simply also a perfect showcase for the Wiimote. And I would say that it's on the same level as "Pong" ages ago.

Wii had "atypical products" as in non-typical games. Like Wii Fit, yes. But also games like Endless Ocean were "atypical".

Unlike SONY which has a high retention rate of its demographic by continuing the "Playstation" brand every generation

And how do you explain the horrible PS3 numbers back in 2006, 2007 and 2008?

If Sony continued the path of the PS2, then I would agree. Instead they took a shit with the PS3. And then took another shit with the PS4. For me as a gamer, who actually cares about his old games and the ability to play them their approach is simply unacceptable. But I also know that I'm in the minority and that the general masses don't give a shit about stuff like that.

You know what would be perfect? If every Playstation console could play Playstation games. Literally all of them. That would be awesome. But sadly it's a pipe-dream.

"Continuing the Playstation brand" is basically "in name only" and that's quite pointless.
I can't play my Playstation (1+2) games on Playstation 3. I can't play my Playstation (1+2+3) games on Playstation 4. Well, a tiny few work somewhat, almost none do. And so on and so on. If you look at it from that perspective the brand doesn't even make sense.

 

[Oddduck]

And how do you explain the horrible PS3 numbers back in 2006, 2007 and 2008?

The launch price was horrible.

PS3 still reached 80 million units worldwide after the console went through multiple price drops.

 

[Pokemaniac]

1) Doesn't Mevius or Mobius or whatever it is called run on high end smartphones? The NX's portable iteration will probably cost no more than $129. You have to target a few years older in tech I think.

2) I do not think the "console" version will be a super scaled up version of the handheld. I'm thinking like 3DS to New 3DS in terms of added graphical features + ability to run games in 1080p a la Ouya (PS Vita TV doesn't even do that).

Any reason for this? From my understanding, it might take some actual work on Nintendo's part to keep their console that weak.

 

[VariantX]

$249-$299 will be the range Nintendo goes for. I would expect they will skip the ultra expensive controller so that should open them up to significant power gains if they want them. Then again they could surprise us all and try an overpriced gimmick again.

Tablet Controller was a great idea that arrived too late.



Sometimes I think Nintendo tries way too hard to be different and in the end it just pushes away the people who are ok with not being unique and just want overall access to as much as can be delivered from the Industry. Trying to stand out against all odds just leaves Nintendo standing high and dry and even the most loyal eventually get tired

I hope Nintendo would think more about being unique in software and game design this time around, rather than depending on a hardware thing that alienates everyone else, consumers and developers alike. More things like Splatoon, and less things like Wii U Gamepads. The vast majority of console consumers just want a good, solid controller in their hands, and they just want to look only at their big 40-50 inch HD TV in their living rooms.

 

[thefro]

Exactly.

Better specs might have meant more and better ports, but they wouldn't have changed Nintendo's garbage network services, weak relationships with Western third parties, and near-nonexistent first-party support targeted at the Western core market.

They were in no position to cultivate any sort of audience for AAA multiplats on their hardware, and by most indications, they still aren't.

They've definitely improved on the network front. Splatoon's network features run really well. I think the problem they have in 2015 is more the lack of OS features to do stuff like party chat and the like. A new home console would hopefully support streaming video output out of the box in 2016/2017.

Obviously they are unveiling their new online membership service with DeNA in the fall and that'll give us some hints on what they are doing.

I agree on the third party relationships/1st party Western output front, but they could make some moves that we haven't heard about to shore that up. One other thing that should be mentioned is they're definitely in a better position with indie devs than 2011/2012, so that's a positive you can point to.

Forcing all Nintendo IP to be designed with a handheld's power in mind sounds terrifying. But their home console business since the SNES has been a waste of resources, barring the Wii of course, so it's probably the direction we're headed.

The vast majority of their first-party developed games on the Wii U don't push the Wii U as it is. I don't think they have a choice at this point.

That's not saying that there won't be a few games where they try to push the home console, but they only have a limited number of teams that can do that (2-3 of the EAD Kyoto groups + EAD Tokyo, Monolith, and maybe Retro if they staff up more). Obviously they could outsource some stuff or buy a studio or two.

Presumably yes, or at least 15 million who aren't already being served well enough by 3DS for their Nintendo fix. Wii U alone doesn't encompass the upper limit of Nintendo's core audience.

Yeah, I don't think you can dismiss the 3DS audience, especially in Japan where you've got the Monster Hunter core gamer in the ecosystem. Combining both the Wii U/3DS audience gives you a decent base to build from.

 

[stan423321]

Any reason for this? From my understanding, it might take some actual work on Nintendo's part to keep their console that weak.

If it's all about cross-buy, then to NOT get console-form exclusive titles.

 

[Vena]

It is evident that Nintendo fans defect every console generation. Outside of the outlier, the Wii which was a product that largely sold beyond the traditional gaming consumer to the general masses through atypical products like Wii Sports and Wii Fit. The numbers themselves do the talking;

The Wii's attach rate was far, far too high for people to just have been buying "atypical" products. It rivaled the PS3/360.

Sony isn't even all that good at maintaining its brand nor are they impervious to decay, all it takes is one bad piece of hardware/price and you can shoot yourself in the foot as Sony did with the PS3, and Nintendo did with the WiiU. Sony completely pissed away its entire handheld demographic with the Vita as well and they abandoned that hardware as if it had flees.

 

[Rocky]

The launch price was horrible.

PS3 still reached 80 million units worldwide after the console went through multiple price drops.

I thought it hit 85 million units.

The Wii's attach rate was far, far too high for people to just have been buying "atypical" products. It rivaled the PS3/360.

Sony isn't even all that good at maintaining its brand, all it takes is one bad piece of hardware/price and you can shoot yourself in the foot as Sony did with the PS3, and Nintendo did with the WiiU.

1. Wii Sports
2. Wii Fit
3. Wii Play
4. Mario Kart
5 New Super Mario Bros Wii
6. Wii Sports Resort
7. Wii Party
8. Wii Fit Plus

That's the reason for the attach rate numbers. All the big casual games. And half of those came with a controller, so it was like getting the game free when you buy an extra remote. There was also the Wii Remote Plus attachment that was packed with some of those as well.

 

[Kimawolf]

The launch price was horrible.

PS3 still reached 80 million units worldwide after the console went through multiple price drops.

And don't forget the big factor. Stayed on the market as Sony's Premiere videogame system for 8 years, really 9. So yeah after almost a decade it did make 80 million. Cut that down to a traditional generation and it would have made maybe what? 50 million? 60? Still with those 8 years sold far less than PS2 did, and if you add in their videogame business as a whole, the PSP added 80 million other users, and now the Vita has like 3 million, so yeah the contraction happened, and the 360/wii gen will go down as the best (i.e. most units sold) generation in gaming, there will never be another.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

May I remind you, that the Wii had almost the same attach rate as PS3+360?

So you can either say that the "general masses" only bought "atypical products" like Wii Sports and Wii Fit and nothing else. And that possibly the super Nintendo hardcore players bought 3 or 4 times as many games on Wii than what people bought on PS3+360 to get the attach rate to where it was.

Or maybe the general masses bought all sorts of games including "atypical products".

Calling "Wii Sports" an "atypical product". smh. It's a typical video game. It's simply also a perfect showcase for the Wiimote. And I would say that it's on the same level as "Pong" ages ago.

Wii had "atypical products" as in non-typical games. Like Wii Fit, yes. But also games like Endless Ocean were "atypical".

I was just pointing to Wii Sports and Wii Fit as the catalyst that drove system sales to new markets and beyond. I never argued the attach rate or that consumers didn't buy other games.

Wii Sports was very much an atypical product as it was the premiere game demonstrating the wiimote motion functioning that captivated general consumers. It was also atypical from Nintendo, who has attached this philosophy of branding Mario onto products like this for the past 20 years.

The Wii's attach rate was far, far too high for people to just have been buying "atypical" products. It rivaled the PS3/360.

Sony isn't even all that good at maintaining its brand nor are they impervious to decay, all it takes is one bad piece of hardware/price and you can shoot yourself in the foot as Sony did with the PS3, and Nintendo did with the WiiU. Sony completely pissed away its entire handheld demographic with the Vita as well and they abandoned that hardware as if it had flees.

How on Earth are you comparing the Wii U to the PS3? The Playstation 3 suffered a bad first year, but SONY managed to recover and sell over 80 million units of hardware and introduce several new blockbusters first-party IPs like Uncharted. The Vita is a different system, as it is actually a well designed piece of hardware and had a strong batch of launch titles. It is still doing okay in Japan, but lets face reality that the global market isn't exactly prime for a hand held dedicated system in this day and age.

 

[Pokemaniac]

If it's all about cross-buy, then to NOT get console-form exclusive titles.

Even on iOS, for example, you still have some apps that are iPad exclusive. I don't see why Nintendo couldn't or shouldn't have a similar setup where super technically ambitious games (such as Xenoblade, console Zelda games, etc.) can be console exclusive, at least until the handheld hardware catches up enough to run them. Keeping a small amount of content exclusive to each system also helps incentivize people to eventually buy both.

 

[Vena]

How on Earth are you comparing the Wii U to the PS3? The Playstation 3 suffered a bad first year, but SONY managed to recover and sell over 80 million units of hardware and introduce several new blockbusters first-party IPs like Uncharted. The Vita is a different system, as it is actually a well designed piece of hardware and had a strong batch of launch titles. It is still doing okay in Japan, but lets face reality that the global market isn't exactly prime for a hand held dedicated system in this day and age.

Sony managed to reverse course by burning billions and keeping the console on the market for 8-9 years. Could the same have been done with the WiiU? Probably not as easily since the whole design was a clusterfuck of issues for everyone, including Nintendo.

Vita is a disaster that shows just how quickly a brand, whether it is Sony's or Nintendo's or Microsoft's can completely vanish. It doesn't matter how good or bad the hardware is, fans didn't want to buy the thing.

Your statement that Sony can maintain a brand better is simply flimsy at best. All it takes is one generation of flubs or hardware that the audience won't accept, to erase any and all "maintaining". The X1, the PS3, the Vita, and the WiiU are evidence enough of that. It can be course reversed sometimes, like the PS3, but its not always a situation that can be salvaged, like the Vita or the WiiU.

That's the reason for the attach rate numbers. All the big casual games. And half of those came with a controller, so it was like getting the game free when you buy an extra remote. There was also the Wii Remote Plus attachment that was packed with some of those as well.

Your logic would work if there had been over 100 million sold of some of those or more comparable to the huge sales of WiiSports (~90mil), but once you pass WiiFit (20mil), the numbers plummet fast. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/wii.html

People bought a LOT of varied software on the Wii.

 

[Biker19]

If Sony continued the path of the PS2, then I would agree. Instead they took a shit with the PS3. And then took another shit with the PS4. For me as a gamer, who actually cares about his old games and the ability to play them their approach is simply unacceptable. But I also know that I'm in the minority and that the general masses don't give a shit about stuff like that.

You know what would be perfect? If every Playstation console could play Playstation games. Literally all of them. That would be awesome. But sadly it's a pipe-dream.

"Continuing the Playstation brand" is basically "in name only" and that's quite pointless.
I can't play my Playstation (1+2) games on Playstation 3. I can't play my Playstation (1+2+3) games on Playstation 4. Well, a tiny few work somewhat, almost none do. And so on and so on. If you look at it from that perspective the brand doesn't even make sense.

I agree. They could easily provide BC with PS1 & PS2 games on the PS4 & allow us to use our PS1/PS2 discs, at the very least. They're just too lazy to do so.

BC with PS3 games on the other hand, is out of the question because of both the cell processor as well as with the Nvidia GPU. The only way to play PS3 games again on PS4 natively, is if the publishers themselves decides to port the games over to the console. Games like The Last of Us, Uncharted 1-3, God of War III, Dark Souls II, Darksiders II, Grand Theft Auto V, Rayman Legends, & so on.

 

[Petrae]

I was just pointing to Wii Sports and Wii Fit as the catalyst that drove system sales to new markets and beyond. I never argued the attach rate or that consumers didn't buy other games.

Wii Sports was very much an atypical product as it was the premiere game demonstrating the wiimote motion functioning that captivated general consumers. It was also atypical from Nintendo, who has attached this philosophy of branding Mario onto products like this for the past 20 years.

Wii Sports & Wii Fit succeeded at attracting wider audiences because they didn't revolve around narrow "video game" tropes.

Wii Sports was just a series of simplified sports that also introduced (rather well with bowling, especially) motion controls and more of a sense of "really playing"-- as opposed to a couple of timing-based button presses. Nintendo didn't shoehorn Mario or Link in there, and such, fewer people considered it a "kid's game" or just another video game.

Wii Fit delivered a fun workout experience that you could have right in your living room. While younger players could play same "gamey" physical stuff, adults or those not as interested in games could focus on the workouts themselves.

NintendoLand failed as a followup because it went back to video game stuff and automatically limited its audience. Mario, Link, and Samus appeal to a narrower field of potential consumers, while the concept of another minigame collection put off some of the audience that might have been otherwise interested.

I knew, walking out after Nintendo's E3 presser at the Nokia Theater concluded, that the WiiU was going to struggle. NintendoLand was just one of the red flags. There wasn't a killer app to be seen, and Nintendo was launching in 5 months. What I didn't expect was to see the near-total exodus of third-party support which eventually came to pass.

Whatever Nintendo is going to deliver for its Gen9 box, it needs to have a killer app at launch with wider appeal and it requires the restoration of third-party software support in order to have a shot.

 

[kittens]

Getting widespread third party support would be a huge win for Nintendo. Imagine the NX being the only console you own and actually being able to count on multiplatform games coming out for it. That's unimaginable for a Nintendo console in the post-Gamecube era! It'd be such a game changer.

 

[VariantX]

Wii Sports & Wii Fit succeeded at attracting wider audiences because they didn't revolve around narrow "video game" tropes.

Wii Sports was just a series of simplified sports that also introduced (rather well with bowling, especially) motion controls and more of a sense of "really playing"-- as opposed to a couple of timing-based button presses. Nintendo didn't shoehorn Mario or Link in there, and such, fewer people considered it a "kid's game" or just another video game.

Wii Fit delivered a fun workout experience that you could have right in your living room. While younger players could play same "gamey" physical stuff, adults or those not as interested in games could focus on the workouts themselves.

NintendoLand failed as a followup because it went back to video game stuff and automatically limited its audience. Mario, Link, and Samus appeal to a narrower field of potential consumers, while the concept of another minigame collection put off some of the audience that might have been otherwise interested.

I knew, walking out after Nintendo's E3 presser at the Nokia Theater concluded, that the WiiU was going to struggle. NintendoLand was just one of the red flags. There wasn't a killer app to be seen, and Nintendo was launching in 5 months. What I didn't expect was to see the near-total exodus of third-party support which eventually came to pass. Its as if NO lessons were learned from the 3DS droughts.

Whatever Nintendo is going to deliver for its Gen9 box, it needs to have a killer app at launch with wider appeal and it requires the restoration of third-party software support in order to have a shot.

Its not that it needed a killer app, its just that the games that should have been there at launch came out months later like 3D world. Sony had a bit of a drought too with PS4, but they at least had 3rd parties come and fill their gaping release gaps.

 

[Astral Dog]

I was just pointing to Wii Sports and Wii Fit as the catalyst that drove system sales to new markets and beyond. I never argued the attach rate or that consumers didn't buy other games.

Wii Sports was very much an atypical product as it was the premiere game demonstrating the wiimote motion functioning that captivated general consumers. It was also atypical from Nintendo, who has attached this philosophy of branding Mario onto products like this for the past 20 years.




How on Earth are you comparing the Wii U to the PS3? The Playstation 3 suffered a bad first year, but SONY managed to recover and sell over 80 million units of hardware and introduce several new blockbusters first-party IPs like Uncharted. The Vita is a different system, as it is actually a well designed piece of hardware and had a strong batch of launch titles. It is still doing okay in Japan, but lets face reality that the global market isn't exactly prime for a hand held dedicated system in this day and age.

Only a bad first year? you may be underestimating how bad it was for Sony, they rebuilded themselves, thanks to a strong brand, price cuts and an impressive first party lineup, yes but it was a mess.

Vita is doing "ok" but compare to even 3DS its clear Sony had little faith on the system, they can throw their handheld business away and its not going to affect them much but Vita is clearly a neglected platform

 

[Interceptor]

People bought a LOT of varied software on the Wii.

Yep, that´s an urban myth that just won´t die. The attach-rate on Wii was actually as high or even higher than the competitors. It wasn´t just the Wii Sports machine some would like to make it. It wasn´t a cheap gimmick either. It was just as high tech as PS3/360 just with another focus and this "gimmick" (a word that should be banned in gaming discussions) is now everywhere to be found. Just like analog sticks, d-pads, shoulder buttons etc. All "gimmicks".

Pretty sure they keep the screen as well, just more refined and maybe incorporating round displays to enable a more comfortable form factor.

 

[vinnygambini]

Ninja's larger points and premise is that SONY has been able to attract and retain, albeit shrinking, the dudebro audience.

SONY abandoned the portable market for greener pastures. Nintendo has such a hold in that market too, so it doesn't help either.

At least, that's what I understood and share the same opinion.

 

[Graphics Horse]

You don't pre-write the data on the flash memory, that's infeasible. Which is why this is a better solution. You produce blanks that then have their data put on them using a WORM write method, which can be automated. This puts it in the same league as optical media in regards to simplicity of data replication. And you wouldn't even need your own manufacturing facilities for the wafers, just a contract with a NAND supplier.

Thanks, I guess Vita games use some variation of this instead of Mask ROMs like Nintendo currently use?