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Forza Motorsport 6 |OT| Forza turns 10

terrible

Banned
My driveatar is going to be the biggest asshole out there. 2-4 laps to go from like 14th to 3rd? You better believe I'm going to be trading paint with everyone to pull that one off. That's one of the biggest issues with the drivatar system. It's pulling data from races where people have to drive like animals in order to finish top 3. Make the races longer or get rid of the mandatory top 3 finish and I'll race cleanly all day.

Is it even possible to play without rewind in this game with drivatar aggression on? I get hit from behind while braking for a turn almost every time, that or a drivatar in front of me will brake for no reason and I'll slam into them.

I would say the AI is more human-like now but it turns out random humans are really not that fun to race with! Lol.
 
Ugh why do they think the Veyron is a good grand prize, I don't care how fast it goes because it's not a racer which means it's should look good but it doesn't.
 

Gestault

Member
Is it even possible to play without rewind in this game with drivatar aggression on? I get hit from behind while braking for a turn almost every time, that or a drivatar in front of me will brake for no reason and I'll slam into them.

I keep the aggression limiter off (it's so much less predictable, and I like that), but I definitely reconsider any time an AI driver decides it needs to redefine "defensive" driving.
 
I play without rewind. It's not like losing is that big of deal unless you're hurtling toward 100% as fast possible. The XP, affinity and payouts are still pretty good.
 

shinnn

Member
GreatThunderousBunting.gif


lol
 

terrible

Banned
I keep the aggression limiter off (it's so much less predictable, and I like that), but I definitely reconsider any time an AI driver decides it needs to redefine "defensive" driving.

They do hilarious things when you leave the limiter off. So I can either have cleaner races or witness ridiculous spins and crashes. Easy decision.
 

frontieruk

Member
Some of their behavior feels more human-like, for eg I have had a few of them let me pass or evade when I braked early but on tight tracks in the first few corners they are still overly aggressive.

Maybe the aggression should be a slider instead of just a toggle, I'd want the AI to act as though it gives half a shit about its $500k supercar.

Also I'm not ever expecting them to go into details to how the drivatar system actually works but my guess is that it follows a players line until some event in the world where it goes into a pre-defined routine. I think in the first few turns they should be slower and try to spread out the grid and avoid collisions but given that races are still mainly 3/4 laps I can see how they tune them to be more balls to the wall but it just becomes frustrating trying to ram past their bunch-ups.

http://research.microsoft.com/apps/mobile/showpage.aspx?page=/en-us/projects/drivatar/
it'll of been refined, but generally it's just a % worked out from your average performances, that's why the stats aren't per car, as it'd mean multiple drivatars.

Drivatars as a concept is brilliant, but it does seem like more work on the algorithms is desperately needed.

I think getting them to act like they do later in the races would be an improvement, unfortunately the stat tracking implies everyone hurtles into the first turn and uses everyone else for brakes, this leads to everyone hurtling into the first corner as they've got to get agreed of the pack to keep with the top 3.

My driveatar is going to be the biggest asshole out there. 2-4 laps to go from like 14th to 3rd? You better believe I'm going to be trading paint with everyone to pull that one off. That's one of the biggest issues with the drivatar system. It's pulling data from races where people have to drive like animals in order to finish top 3. Make the races longer or get rid of the mandatory top 3 finish and I'll race cleanly all day.

Is it even possible to play without rewind in this game with drivatar aggression on? I get hit from behind while braking for a turn almost every time, that or a drivatar in front of me will brake for no reason and I'll slam into them.

I would say the AI is more human-like now but it turns out random humans are really not that fun to race with! Lol.

This the stats say we bundle the first corner, the drivatars just replicate that behavior.

I think the problem is you need to make, on average, the opponents drive less like the people who play the game.

On the higher difficulty settings I adore the drivatar system, but I totally get the gripes on the lower settings. My friends list is pretty centered around good/serious players, so my experience has continuously been rock solid, but I've definitely loaded up a friend's profile whose used my Xbox, and he has some real dummies on track if you set it to anything at-or-below "above average."

Hopefully they'll improve the lower levels as well, because as those players get fatter their avatars will invade the community.
 

Kacho

Member
Does anyone have any recommendations for who to follow for good car tunes? Im currently only following Raceboy77.
 

Ebolarama

Banned
My driveatar is going to be the biggest asshole out there. 2-4 laps to go from like 14th to 3rd? You better believe I'm going to be trading paint with everyone to pull that one off. That's one of the biggest issues with the drivatar system. It's pulling data from races where people have to drive like animals in order to finish top 3. Make the races longer or get rid of the mandatory top 3 finish and I'll race cleanly all day.

I drive the same way for the same reasons but I think FM6 really doesn't have the 3 lap problem like FM5 did. The first and second volume did have shorter races but volume 3 and certainly 4 (where I currently am) have longish races. And of course a number of the showcases have long to extreme races.
I am not disagreeing, and the game would benefit from qualifying laps and a lap slider, but it has been improved.
 

terrible

Banned
I drive the same way for the same reasons but I think FM6 really doesn't have the 3 lap problem like FM5 did. The first and second volume did have shorter races but volume 3 and certainly 4 (where I currently am) have longish races. And of course a number of the showcases have long to extreme races.
I am not disagreeing, and the game would benefit from qualifying laps and a lap slider, but it has been improved.

Yeah I'm pretty early into the career, I'm only level 10 (just won a Huayra!). Maybe I was too quick to assume the career was full of nothing but short races, that's just what I've been used to since Forza 5.
 
I drive the same way for the same reasons but I think FM6 really doesn't have the 3 lap problem like FM5 did. The first and second volume did have shorter races but volume 3 and certainly 4 (where I currently am) have longish races. And of course a number of the showcases have long to extreme races.
I am not disagreeing, and the game would benefit from qualifying laps and a lap slider, but it has been improved.
Improved, yes, but not enough. Unbeatable is the right difficulty for me, it's where I have the most fun racing and the AI on that level doesn't try too much shit with me, their braking for some slow corners is still not really predictable, but it's better... still, to get 3rd place in 5 laps on that difficulty I have to do some real asshole driving the first half lap or so. Just give me the option to do 10 laps or at least don't force 3rd place to progress on me. Nothing else in the progression is built to punish the player, you get lots of XP no matter how you drive, unlimited rewinds if you want, lots of difficulty options... it's very fair. They just should give you higher rewards the higher you finish a race in my opinion.

Usually I can see a reason behind almost any game-design decision, even if I don't agree with it. For example, it could be that there is no dash-camera option because they fear the interior in some cars might look ugly, or a different FOV might make the game look slower. Maybe they replaced the marketplace because the incentive to earn credits that way was too high and "forced" players who didn't want to paint to make paintjobs for the money. The career races are only 3 laps, because that gives the campaign the right length for the average player and enough different races to try a lot of different cars. But why not the option for more laps if you want to?
Maybe they think "the guys who want longer races don't need the campaign anyway, they spend most of their time online and in free play, where they can tailor the length to their liking."? Or is it that it would make the game too easy if you length-cheat your way? Did the playtesters always make races longer to get more money and make it easier but that turned the career into too much of a grind??? It's not that it's too difficult or resource-expensive to implement the option, because the option is there for free play. I really don't understand the reason behind the set race length.
 

MouldyK

Member
100 Indy Laps done. Took 1hr 10mins and made me super bored.


7 Spins: 5 were 50,000Cr, 1 was an Indy Car and 1 was the Formula 1 Lotus Car.

Rewind stopped working after like 10 laps and they had to pit, but I didn't. Pretty fair considering they pushed me constantly.
 

danowat

Banned
So, the game automatically changes your race tyres for wets, and any tyre below race, I.e. street and sport tyres, are all weather.

I am interested how these wet 'race' tyres compare to say the all weather sport tyres, anyone done any tests?
 

Lima

Member
whats the deal with leagues? I thought it was supposed to be a way to play with drivers closer to your skill level.

Went on during the ultimate edition period and there was an introductory league. exactly what im looking for.

now its gone?

The idea behind the leagues is that people are split up in 5 divisions.

Everyone starts out as 5. I played about 9 races of the introduction league and won 8 of them. I am now in division 1, racing with the guys from VVV, AttaX etc.

Other than them just starting the game and playing leagues for the first time you shouldn't see these guys after some time, depending on how good you yourself are of course.
 

terrible

Banned
I did a race on the Daytona sports car circuit layout in a raceboy77 tuned Renault 5 Turbo and boy was I dirty. It was a great car in the corners but it was so slow on the oval sections that I had to actively swerve and block everyone behind me to keep my position. I did that for three laps and ended up 3rd. Poor drivatars.
 

Lima

Member
I did a race on the Daytona sports car circuit layout in a raceboy77 tuned Renault 5 Turbo and boy was I dirty. It was a great car in the corners but it was so slow on the oval sections that I had to actively swerve and block everyone behind me to keep my position. I did that for three laps and ended up 3rd. Poor drivatars.

Yeah his tunes are generally great for circuits where grip is needed as he always goes pure grip.
 
So, the game automatically changes your race tyres for wets, and any tyre below race, I.e. street and sport tyres, are all weather.

I am interested how these wet 'race' tyres compare to say the all weather sport tyres, anyone done any tests?

Car: Infinity Q50 Eau Rouge
Track: Top Gear Test Track West
(1st laps are line-start)

Street Tyre

Dry:
1st lap: 36.272
2nd lap: 34.971

Wet:
1st lap: 39.034
2nd lap: 36.764


Sport Tyre

Dry:
1st lap: 36.568
2nd lap: 34.607

Wet:
1st lap: 39.068
2nd lap: 36.063


Race Tyre

Dry:
1st lap: 36.501
2nd lap: 34.353

Wet:
1st lap: 37.773
2nd lap: 35.998


No, I don't know either, if my 1st race tyre lap in the wet was just lucky and fucking amazing. The 2nd lap with the race tyres in the wet I tried twice, the other time was 36.058, basically the same time as with the sport "all weather" tyre.
 

terrible

Banned
Yeah his tunes are generally great for circuits where grip is needed as he always goes pure grip.

It specifically said it was a grip tune and it had less power than whatever it came tuned with when I bought it so I knew what I was getting into. It was a pretty hilarious race though. I'd say every car had a good 10 MPH over me so it was quite the task keeping them from passing on the oval section.
 
So far I absolutely love this game in every way except one thing.

Top 3 finish to move on.

Show me ONE real world race driver who has finished top 3 in every event he participated in. That guy would be the world's best driver of all time by a landslide.

The most fun for me, would be finishing middle of the pack almost consistently, and then managing a 3rd place finish after fighting tooth and nail over multiple laps to get yourself a podium finish. Now THAT would be a podium finish I would be proud of.

Always having a podium finish takes all the "special" out of it and makes it boring.
 

Bubba77

Member
Picked up a toyota supra last night for first time. That car is super fun to drive. Great handling. Favorite so far
 

danowat

Banned
Car: Infinity Q50 Eau Rouge
Track: Top Gear Test Track West
(1st laps are line-start)

Street Tyre

Dry:
1st lap: 36.272
2nd lap: 34.971

Wet:
1st lap: 39.034
2nd lap: 36.764


Sport Tyre

Dry:
1st lap: 36.568
2nd lap: 34.607

Wet:
1st lap: 39.068
2nd lap: 36.063


Race Tyre

Dry:
1st lap: 36.501
2nd lap: 34.353

Wet:
1st lap: 37.773
2nd lap: 35.998


No, I don't know either, if my 1st race tyre lap in the wet was just lucky and fucking amazing. The 2nd lap with the race tyres in the wet I tried twice, the other time was 36.058, basically the same time as with the sport "all weather" tyre.

Much closer than I expected.....
 

nib95

Banned
Car: Infinity Q50 Eau Rouge
Track: Top Gear Test Track West
(1st laps are line-start)

Street Tyre

Dry:
1st lap: 36.272
2nd lap: 34.971

Wet:
1st lap: 39.034
2nd lap: 36.764


Sport Tyre

Dry:
1st lap: 36.568
2nd lap: 34.607

Wet:
1st lap: 39.068
2nd lap: 36.063


Race Tyre

Dry:
1st lap: 36.501
2nd lap: 34.353

Wet:
1st lap: 37.773
2nd lap: 35.998


No, I don't know either, if my 1st race tyre lap in the wet was just lucky and fucking amazing. The 2nd lap with the race tyres in the wet I tried twice, the other time was 36.058, basically the same time as with the sport "all weather" tyre.

The differences in times between the different tyres don't seem as pronounced as I'd have expected, especially in the dry. Doesn't seem right. Have you done the same test with a faster car? Perhaps you'd see more of a difference? Then again Q50 Eau Rouge does have the GT-R engine I believe, so it should still be a pretty quick vehicle.
 

RoKKeR

Member
I did a race on the Daytona sports car circuit layout in a raceboy77 tuned Renault 5 Turbo and boy was I dirty. It was a great car in the corners but it was so slow on the oval sections that I had to actively swerve and block everyone behind me to keep my position. I did that for three laps and ended up 3rd. Poor drivatars.
Yeah I'm doing that event right now and keep getting torched on the straights/oval in a new MX5... Need to find some tunes/a better option.
 
Seems I'm getting the same audio glitch like I did with FM5 (but not Horizon 2). A crackling, buzz that pops up usually when near other cars. The game starts fine but it appears an hour or so later and gets worse and worse over time. No other Xbox One game does this. Annoying.

Driving in cockpit view is really hampered by the volume of the other cars, or lack of volume of mine. I have to check the rev limiter to see when to change gear because with some cars you can't hear anything just the buzzing growl of the AI cars. Really putting me off.

And the AI difficulty is all over the place. Sometimes I struggle on Expert. Other times they're piss easy. Also the difference in lap times between AI can be huge. Some have a lap time 6 or 7 seconds faster than others in the same race! No wonder some shoot off into the distance.
 
Played a few more hours last night and this game is some serious fun. Aside from FH2, this might be the most fun I've had in a racing game, and definitely the most fun I've had in a sim style racing game.

I can't wait for the weekend so I can put some serious time into it (and play some multiplayer)
 

witness

Member
So far I absolutely love this game in every way except one thing.

Top 3 finish to move on.

Show me ONE real world race driver who has finished top 3 in every event he participated in. That guy would be the world's best driver of all time by a landslide.

The most fun for me, would be finishing middle of the pack almost consistently, and then managing a 3rd place finish after fighting tooth and nail over multiple laps to get yourself a podium finish. Now THAT would be a podium finish I would be proud of.

Always having a podium finish takes all the "special" out of it and makes it boring.

Agreed completely. Can't believe they didn't carry Horizons point system.
 

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
Reading through this thread, this game is starting to sound like what Gran Turismo 5 and 6 should have been.
 

Gestault

Member
Agreed completely. Can't believe they didn't carry Horizons point system.

I really like Forza 5's structure for podium "brackets," but I do like how clear it is that you're banking credits/exp for attempts in F6, even when you don't progress. I do wish championships had point structures though (at least for ones it makes sense in).

Reading through this thread, this game is starting to sound like what Gran Turismo 5 and 6 should have been.

This is, bar none, the best realistic style racer I've played. Content, customization and game structure are so strong overall (quibbles aside). I do think GT6 gets more guff than it probably deserves because of the state GT5 launched in.
 

RawNuts

Member
These freakin showcase events that don't let you rev because of the take off delay... :/

Reading through this thread, this game is starting to sound like what Gran Turismo 5 and 6 should have been.
You're going in a dangerous direction here. :p
 
I love how "alive" the cars feel now. Everything just feels really good to drive, from the slower FWD cars to the super fast RWD, they all have much more character now.
 
The differences in times between the different tyres don't seem as pronounced as I'd have expected, especially in the dry. Doesn't seem right. Have you done the same test with a faster car? Perhaps you'd see more of a difference? Then again Q50 Eau Rouge does have the GT-R engine I believe, so it should still be a pretty quick vehicle.

It has AWD, high torque, comparatively slim tyres and weighs a lot for a performance car. That's why I chose it, it's a tyre torture machine.
The track is more or less an oval with 2 straights and the car had enough power to make every corner a full AWD-rally powerslide.

I'd like to see someone elses times or even better their own test design.
The times are a little weird. Maybe a track with race tarmac would have been better.

Edit:
Lol this is amazing. Great stuff dude. I wonder what the world's most powerful (and fastest) road legal VW Beetle actually is? Imagine having one and leaving a Ferrari behind in a drag race lol. The look on the owners face would be priceless.
A beatle has swing axle suspension, which means that every time you shift weight longitudinally the camber angle changes, which makes it a death-machine in corners. You can totally put a tuned Porsche flat engine in a beatle and get harder springs..., an old Mercedes 300SL Gullwing has this, but it also has a way longer wheelbase and even in that car it wasn't really a good idea. If you change the chassis to let's say double wishbone suspension or mcpherson strut or anything more sophisticated, you'd basically be driving a Porsche in a Beatle costume.
 

RaZoR No1

Member
The differences in times between the different tyres don't seem as pronounced as I'd have expected, especially in the dry. Doesn't seem right. Have you done the same test with a faster car? Perhaps you'd see more of a difference? Then again Q50 Eau Rouge does have the GT-R engine I believe, so it should still be a pretty quick vehicle.
IMO two laps arent enough to heat up the tires completley to have the full grip level
 

danowat

Banned
It has AWD, high torque, comparatively slim tyres and weighs a lot for a performance car. That's why I chose it, it's a tyre torture machine.
The track is more or less an oval with 2 straights and the car had enough power to make every corner a full AWD-rally powerslide.

I'd like to see someone elses times or even better their own test design.
The times are a little weird. Maybe a track with race tarmac would have been better.
If I get some time at the weekend I'll do a test.
 
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