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Foxconn using forced student labor to build Sony's PS4?

GillianSeed79 said:
It's shitty. It's definitely shitty. But are people really surprised that every piece of technology you own is manufactured via slave labor and sweat shops in China? There's probably 15 things in your house that have been manufactured as such, including your phones and the computers you are typing on right now. If you really want to go down the rabbit hole, rare earth elements are the key to every piece of technology you own and they are currently being mined by slave labor or near-slave labor in African nations and people have probably been killed just so you can buy an iPhone 5 or whatever they are up to now.
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what the hell does it matter whether people are surprised or not? what are you trying to say?

deputyspade said:
Yeah no kidding! Apple, Dell, HP and all the game console manufacturers get their stuff made by foxconn.
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so..? it's all good?
 
astroturfing said:
what the hell does it matter whether people are surprised or not? what are you trying to say?



so..? it's all good?
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Of course it's not all good. This shit is horrible, but it's not a secret. I'm just saying it's kind of dumb when people act shocked when a story like this comes out when it's been known for years and years and years and every piece of technology they and we own has been made by virtual slave labor.
 
geordiemp said:
I am not playing dumb, google child labour and its everywhere, from wal marts onwards.

I don't agree with any of it, and its been around for a long long time, and I doubt many of us can afford to buy on pure ethical principles.

Very few people are ethical and save the planet principled people. I admire them, but am not strong enough to live like that ..............
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Of course. I am not claiming China is the only place this occurs. In truth though, it's very easy to buy on purely ethical principles, but the issue is all cognitive perspectives. In many cases, the stuff you are getting are things you simply want, and not need. And for the more critical things you want, such as food, you have a multiplicity of options. Being "strong enough" is easy when you realize you don't have to consume the shit people are telling you to consume in the various facets that happens in, which can even include actually being alive. The issue is that thinking and living that way is a genuine anthesis to how we have groomed this particular generation, and the modern world. It's always about being impoverished in the present, because there's something in the future you just have to have. It's all fucking bullshit.

The only issue from then on is being mindful of it and tracing the rope of where you get your things.
 
Well whats the reason why big companies keep using Foxconn? They know of all this abuses for years. With the suicides and everything this company is a piece of shit.
 
deputyspade said:
You trying to be a whiteknight here? This stuff is wrong, but it will most likely never stop.
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This is a ridiculous attitude. You can certainly pressure these companies into adopting better practices. At least allow the fucking students to graduate without having to do manual labor, working on their feet for 11 hours.
 
Foxconn told the Oriental Daily that its workers are all voluntary and that it has no interest in preventing them from leaving work if they choose to.
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Such a shitty, weaselly thing to say. Yeah they can leave if they want to but their entire education is being held hostage if they chose to do that.
 
I think some of us are trying to say that posts saying they are shocked by this are surprising, as we are all guilty of buying sweat chop, or child labour clothes, trainers, or Phone minerals mined from Congo and African mines.

I thought everyone was fully aware of this and we just have to live with it, especially on a gaming board where everything we own hardware wise will have a shady manufactured part in it,
 
I don't thank anyone is in any doubt that Foxconn is not a shining example of corporate ethics.

Sony, and others who outsource manufacturing to Foxconn, have probably weighed up the cost of any loss in sales due to bad press relating to Foxconn versus finding a more ethical manufacturer and decided that Foxconn was the best option for shareholders.
 
Despera said:
How many of the products we own are infused with childrens' tears?
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That's a heavy comment.

Personally I refuse to visit India on Business, all the dis-figured kids at traffic lights begging (that have been amputated by parents so they are more effective beggars).

Somethings are just too much, and we really live a sheltered lucky life in the west
 
deputyspade said:
You trying to be a whiteknight here? This stuff is wrong, but it will most likely never stop.
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ok i'm a white knight, i guess? sorry? and yea of course it will never stop, if people keep thinking this way. but that's fucking idiotic, considering all the things we as humans have managed to do. we ended slavery even though it was normalized for CENTURIES, women can vote etc. this is a piece of cake compared to that... if people cared enough to act. but we don't at the moment, for some reason. maybe after we get our PS5s or PS6s?

GillianSeed79 said:
Of course it's not all good. This shit is horrible, but it's not a secret. I'm just saying it's kind of dumb when people act shocked when a story like this comes out when it's been known for years and years and years and every piece of technology they and we own has been made by virtual slave labor.
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it's irrelevant whether people "act shocked" or not. to focus on that is.. bizarre.

Rafterman said:
That's exactly what you said when you bought the products, and that's exactly what you will be saying when you buy the next console, smart phone, tablet, computer.
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i know, i will buy a PS4 so i'm guilty of supporting immorality. BUT if we actually DID something that could lead to better conditions for the Foxconn workers, do you think they'd give a shit if i own a PS4 or not? there's lots we could do. at the very least, we could try to find out some of the people who are working there without pay, send them a letter or money or something, anything. it's a global, connected world today, it's not that hard to get in touch with people even if they're on the other side of the planet and speak a different language. seriously, if Foxconn isn't going to pay them, maybe we should. i want to personally pay the people who build my PS4, if Foxconn is too poor. i'm poor too though, but i can spare something i think.
 
astroturfing said:
i know, i will buy a PS4 so i'm guilty of supporting immorality. BUT if we actually DID something that could lead to better conditions for the Foxconn workers, do you think they'd give a shit if i own a PS4 or not? there's lots we could do. at the very least, we could try to find out some of the people who are working there without pay, send them a letter or money or something, anything. it's a global, connected world today, it's not that hard to get in touch with people even if they're on the other side of the planet and speak a different language. seriously, if Foxconn isn't going to pay them, maybe we should. i want to personally pay the people who build my PS4, if Foxconn is too poor. i'm poor too though, but i can spare something i think.
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Look, I'm all for sending the people who build my PS4 some money. If you can find them and they have a PayPal account, I'd certainly throw some money their way. But if you are talking about creating better working conditions in countries like China, it's not as easy as wiring some money to Steve in the sweatshop. Of course I'd love to see these people actually paid well and have actual decent working conditions. How are we and I supposed to make that happen though? Even if we did, as soon as that happens, Apple, Sony, Microsoft, etc. are going to pack up shop and move to whatever the next exploitable labor market there is. So how do we actually change this honestly?
I mean, I totally agree with you.
 
I thought I'd read something about the rise in mandatory unpaid internships for Chinese college students a while ago, and yeah, it seems to have been on the rise for a decent amount of time.

In China, the annual number of college graduates has exceeded 6 million in recent years, and these students, new to the workforce, are keen to gain off-campus work experiences before graduation. Internships have become so popular that even menial tasks are perceived as indispensable and a credit-worthy part of college life.

[...]

I worked as an unpaid media intern during my senior year. I shared one room with five others in a "jobtel", which are common in China nowadays. They are cheap and available for short-term stays, especially for students doing internships or seeking jobs in first-tier cities. I paid with the help of my family. I was not paid for my work, and neither was I provided with the computer I needed to do the job. I had no supervision and learned little, which was also true of most of my classmates who did an internship.

[...]

The lack of regulations covering internships has fostered the growth of unpaid work in China, exposing college students to exploitation when employers fail to offer the expected experiential learning and instead assign their interns with tasks that should have been done by paid workers. Regulations are needed to clarify and supervise internships, and stipulate under what circumstances internships can be unpaid. These regulations should then be aggressively enforced.
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This is the first I've heard of there being a direct relationship between a college and a manufacturer which essentially treats college students as an uncompensated seasonal labor pool, which is really a serious dick move.
 
astroturfing said:
if Foxconn isn't going to pay them, maybe we should. i want to personally pay the people who build my PS4, if Foxconn is too poor. i'm poor too though, but i can spare something i think.
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China is not really third world. We have an office in China, and when employees come to work in UK for a few weeks they shop in Primark and the like and take los of good home with them as its cheaper. China is a strong economy and lots of really wealthy people.

Half of the students we have employed have left for other' 'better' jobs from our China office, the employment opportunities and job market seems fluid and better than many many countries.

We export to China, they have more money than may countries and a thriving economy. Compare with some southern EU west countries like Greece....

You should visit India, just get off the plane and see all the child cripples outside the airports, puts life into perspective. I don't think Chinese students are the worlds needy, not even close
 
GillianSeed79 said:
Look, I'm all for sending the people who build my PS4 some money. If you can find them and they have a PayPal account, I'd certainly throw some money their way. But if you are talking about creating better working conditions in countries like China, it's not as easy as wiring some money to Steve in the sweatshop. Of course I'd love to see these people actually paid well and have actual decent working conditions. How are we and I supposed to make that happen though? Even if we did, as soon as that happens, Apple, Sony, Microsoft, etc. are going to pack up shop and move to whatever the next exploitable labor market there is. So how do we actually change this honestly?
I mean, I totally agree with you.
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Enough bad press might do it. If Apple, Sony and the rest threatened to move their business elsewhere because of the bad press rubbing off on their reputation then suddenly its cheaper for Foxconn to improve conditions for their workers.
There's not point in hoping for them to do it because its the right thing to do. Some (most) companies are just not built that way.
 
Foffy said:
If I can be blunt here: what you wrote in relation to Foxconn shows you literally have no fucking clue what you're talking about. This is the same company that has nets around their buildings because people jump off of them because of the depression a significant number of their workforce experiences.

Foxconn is the modern example of slavery that seems to be "okay" because it's not sticking a bunch of people in mines getting minerals because their families are threatened with death via gunfire. It's just as disgusting.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides

Whilst suicides at work are not to be sniffed at certainly, the matter does require some perspective. China has a very high suicide rate full stop and the suicide rate at Foxconn is less than the rest of the country, it employs a lot of people and has tall buildings which is handy for a person of suicidal tendencies.

The reason it got coverage in the West is because people were killing themselves at the iPad factory..... In a country where a lot of people kill themselves.
 
I'm wondering how much extra it would cost to produce the consoles in countries with better labour laws/enforcement? Are we talking 20, 50, 100% or more? If Sony, Apple et al. offered a second more expensive choice would anyone here take it?
 
binarymelon said:
I'm wondering how much extra it would cost to produce the consoles in countries with better labour laws/enforcement? Are we talking 20, 50, 100% or more? If Sony, Apple et al. offered a second more expensive choice would anyone here take it?
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I honestly would.

I am currently living in a "third world" country and have to see this kind of stuff on a day to day basis.
 
Didnt Foxxom say they were buying/building a million robots to replace most of the workers soon anyway.

That should make everyone happy, no more exploitation of workers for your ps8. I`m sure the workers are going to be much happier back on farms.
 
Honest question.

In the kinect ads thread, some people brought up the fact that a lot of companies already show you targeted ads. Most people quickly dismissed them.

But in this thread the defense is well everyone does it.

What's the difference?
 
semiconscious said:
unfortunately, it has been: cheap, plentiful, flexible human labor > cost of building robots. it's not the future they told us about. but it obviously works for them...
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Plus I get the impression there's still a lot of stuff better off done with human hands, it's undoubtedly part of why we may be facing a chocolate crisis in the near future rather than continuing to make it more and more readily available.
 
BladeSinner said:
I honestly would.

I am currently living in a "third world" country and have to see this kind of stuff on a day to day basis.
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I think I might. I probably worded my question wrong making it sound like I doubt anyone would, but I think it would be an interesting idea. We have "conflict free diamonds", why not start to make steps towards a similar concept for our electronics.
 
Welcome to work experience/placement/internship etc. At some stage you will do something that isn't really related to your course. That's how it is, only reason this is making news it's a mega corp in Sony.
 
zoozilla said:
What?

I don't get why my post means that I wish those workers to be even worse off. Of course things could be worse for them - I just wished they were better.

The point is, everyone can recognize that something is wrong with the current situation, but there's no real effort put into making big changes. And that's a shame.
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While Foxconn will never win any human rights awards, compared to other manufactures & occupations in China they're one of the 'better' companies to work for, hence why thousands of people line up for jobs every day & they come from all over china.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...92nk5WXm8RHTX_ejx5T1mmg&bvm=bv.53760139,d.ZGU

Obviously if this were in the west it wouldn't happen on this scale but it's not & it's also the reason why many western country's manufacturing operations no longer exist or cannot compete.
 
geordiemp said:
That's a heavy comment.

Personally I refuse to visit India on Business, all the dis-figured kids at traffic lights begging (that have been amputated by parents so they are more effective beggars).
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Well the picture you just painted in the back of my mind will haunt me the rest of the day, and I haven't even had my first cup of coffee...

On topic: This reeks of bad PR toward Sony specifically like they are the ONLY company who uses such shady manufactures...
 
Cyber Caesar said:
I hate when people complain about out sourced game sales and hacking. Look Sony is stealing labor. Dog eat dog.
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It's not just Sony though is it?

It's every Console company the world over, Nintendo, MS, Sony all use foxconn.

You can bet that 90% of the devices used to post in this thread have some form of Foxconn made technology in them.
 
I do wonder how many people here that are going "ah well if I didnt buy it I would never buy anything" were calling for Phil Fish's head and boycotting Fez. I bet there is some overlap some where.
 
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