In Dark Souls II you meet a person called Navlaan who is trapped in a cell. On the other side of the big room is a hall with a lever at the end. All along the long pathway leading up to the lever are a bunch of developer messages saying things like "Don't you dare!" and "Turn back!" I pulled the lever, which freed Navlaan.
I was mostly using melee and pyromancies, and later learned that because I pulled that lever, I would no longer be able to get one of the best pyromancies in the game!
I assumed that I'd be able to flip the lever back!! But Dark Souls don't fuck around with stuff like that and I paid the price.
At least chrono cross has missable characters BY DESIGN , as the player your choices directly affect who you can recruit and when. You know very early that is you choose 1 , you lose 2.
When I was playing through Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, I ended up missing a number of Djinn because the game didn't bother to relay the fact that I wouldn't be able to backtrack. The reason makes sense within the context of the story *I suppose*, but the event happens rather suddenly, and without any kind of warning.
The first two games made it so that yeah, if you really wanted to you could backtrack and pick up the Djinn you missed... even if it was a massive pain in the ass in the first game (don't remember how it was in 2), at least the option was there. Dark Dawn just sort of cuts you off.
Also, Tales of the Abyss was REALLY STRICT about a lot of the timing that's required for the variety of the side quests. I missed so much stuff in that one because I didn't really want to go as much out of my way as that game wanted me to (like going back through dungeons to backtrack to make the timing and shiz). Tales of Symphonia also had this weird thing where you had to traverse the entirety of the final dungeon, essentially listen to everyone go 'Alright, time to defeat ___ and save the world!", then exit the dungeon to get some additional side quests. Who would really think of that without looking it up or someone telling them?
I wouldn't say Dark Souls story is similar to the OPs but I'd say its NPCs 'quest lines' are. There's some very specific order/places/actions that must be taken or gone to in order to progress their 'story'.
Worst was joining the Darkwraiths covenant. Speak to Frampt, an NPC the game clearly wants you to talk to, and you're locked out of it (and a good chunk of story besides). Would have been one thing if you met the two in quick succession and it was a clear choice, but you don't meet Kaathe for hours after Frampt appears. Usually DS's obscure nature is well thought out, but in this case it seems designed specifically to fuck you over.
Selling the Sharp Edge weapon you get in Star Ocean 2 the Second Story during the tournament. Found out later I needed it to forge the Eternal Sphere, which is the strongest sword you can craft. So yeah..."missed" that.
I would probably mention Peace Walker's true ending here. It doesn't totally leave you hanging, since Miller's message after the false ending clearly tells you something else is up, but honestly, it's pretty dumb, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people missed the real ending because they didn't get that.
The Samurai Armor in Clock Tower 2: The Struggle Within/Ghost Head. At a VERY specific time in the game where it's super easy to miss it, as it's out of your way, it's done absolutely nothing in the past, there's no sign you need to interact with it, but at this specific moment and only in one time frame in the game, you need to interact with it to get an item otherwise you're heading to the bad ending in the game. And the bad ending cuts the game short and makes you not see almost a half if the game, and the only way to avoid it is this super missable item only available at this specific time in the game.
Ghost Head's game design is fascinating because of how bad it is. The only logical conclusion I can make as to why they made it so obtuse is Human wanted to sell game guides.
Silent Hill 1-3 have obscure endings that require using obscure items in specific locations with no indication. All are essentially "missable", and Silent Hill 1 is notorious for this, since the "good" ending is also hidden behind using an obscure item at the right time or people die, locking you into bad endings.
Except for Silent Hill, the rest are just goodies to add replay value. If you're trying to unlock all secrets, you're probably already using a guide. Those endings in Silent Hill? Ridiculous. Especially since you find the red liquid so early in the game, if you even think to try collecting it in an easily missable bottle.
In my first playthrough of Fire Emblem Awakening, I skipped out gaining two members because one I didn't level up and the other I accidently killed him.
Thankfully I accidently deleted my file and was able to get them.
In Cave Story it's possible to miss out on getting the better jet pack.
At least all the things mentioned here once known become easily collectable.
In The Last Remnant The Fallen is a superboss that appears halfway through the game, and unless you've been preparing to defeat it since the moment you began playing you won't stand a chance against it. Too bad he dissapears without notice if you enter a town, and leaves with one of the few Sovanni in the game with him.
Have someone play the Souls series without prior knowledge of the games and no wiki / guide and he'll fill this entire thread. There's obtuse, then there's pure craziness.
From Software should send a check to every single contributor to the Souls Wikia page(s).
I havent played FF7 since 1998, but I remember missing Tifas ultimate power up (or whatever its called), because I didnt play the right tune on some dumb piano
Final Fantasy 12 - Chest which you arent allowed to open at almost the beginning of the game (one specific, if you open it, you can only get the spear by drop rate)
Tales of Vesperia - shitload of optional content and items
Worst was joining the Darkwraiths covenant. Speak to Frampt, an NPC the game clearly wants you to talk to, and you're locked out of it (and a good chunk of story besides). Would have been one thing if you met the two in quick succession and it was a clear choice, but you don't meet Kaathe for hours after Frampt appears. Usually DS's obscure nature is well thought out, but in this case it seems designed specifically to fuck you over.
That feels like something designed for NG+. in NG you meet him, the only other primordial serpent and he says "Yo fuck you dude." In NG+ it makes you think "Well, maybe I shouldn't talk to Frampt this time and instead see what this Kaathe dude is all about."
That feels like something designed for NG+. in NG you meet him, the only other primordial serpent and he says "Yo fuck you dude." In NG+ it makes you think "Well, maybe I shouldn't talk to Frampt this time and instead see what this Kaathe dude is all about."
"FoolÂ… You could not be the Dark Lord.
Enough of thisÂ… and farewell to you.
I shall return to the Abyss, and await the true Lord of Men."
So he doesn't even mention that he's rebuffing you because you placed the Lord Vessel for Frampt. Even on your second playthrough you'd have to get lucky with trial and error to not piss him off, because the placing of the Lord Vessel doesn't really feel like something you're doing for him, it feels like something you have to do to further the story (which it is...the only difference being who's there with you when you do it).
When Frampt asks you to do it it feels like Professor Oak asking if you want to accept the Pokedex - like a choice that's not really a choice. I'll grant that there are surely people who put two and two together (to get five) but I imagine most players just read about it on a wiki.
In the original Golden Sun, you can obtain a psyenergy called Force. It is completely optional. However, if you don't have this ability when you transfer your save data into the next game, you miss out on getting one of the djinns and one of the best weapons in the game, masamune.
If you don't even transfer save files, you have no way obtaining it at all.
If you don't have all of the djinns in the game, you can't get the strongest summon in the game.
"Fool… You could not be the Dark Lord.
Enough of this… and farewell to you.
I shall return to the Abyss, and await the true Lord of Men."
So he doesn't even mention that he's rebuffing you because you placed the Lord Vessel for Frampt. Even on your second playthrough you'd have to get lucky with trial and error to not piss him off, because the placing of the Lord Vessel doesn't really feel like something you're doing for him, it feels like something you have to do to further the story (which it is...the only difference being who's there with you when you do it).
When Frampt asks you to do it it feels like Professor Oak asking if you want to accept the Pokedex - like a choice that's not really a choice. I'll grant that there are surely people who put two and two together (to get five) but I imagine most players just read about it on a wiki.
Darkstalker Kaathe was exactly what I was thinking of when I mentioned Covenants in Dark Souls. there is NO WAY anyone finds out about that without being told.
On a similar note, Valkyrie Profile locks the true ending of the game and a bunch of content behind some BULLSHIT:
SPOILERS BELOW
The best, most complete and most hidden ending in the game which you can't get
in Easy. There are several requirements to the A ending, but most are based on
the same thing: Valkyrie's Seal Rating.
Do not confuse Seal Rating with Evaluation, as they are two completely
different things. To check your Seal, go to Valkyrie's status screen. It's in
the place where you would find the Hero Value for other characters.
Anyway, the Seal has a value that goes from 0 to 100. The lower the better.
Some events will change the Seal, as such:
+2 for wearing the Nibelungen Ring during a Sacred Phase
+12 (!!!) for sending a character to Odin
-2 if you don't wear the Nibelungen Ring during a Sacred Phase
-2 when you recruit any character other than Lorenta and Lyseria
-15 if you go to the Weeping Lily Meadow
-15 if you go to Gerabellum from Chapters 2 to 5 before recruiting Lucian
-10 if you meet Brahms in his castle
-15 if you defeat Lezard Chapter 4
-15 if you recruit Mystina
-20 if you recruit Lucian
Getting a low Seal Value is just one of the requirements for the A Ending.
The other requirements are all events that change your Seal as well. You need
to do ALL of these below:
-Meet Brahms in his castle (-10 Seal)
-Defeat Lezard in Chapter 4 (-15 Seal)
-Recruit Mystina in Chapter 5 (-15 Seal)
-Recruit Lucian in Chapter 5 (-20 Seal)
-Send Lucian to Valhalla before Chapter 7. (+12 Seal)
He must survive the battles in Valhalla until Sacred Phase 6-7.
Just make sure he has the necessary Hero Value for that Chapter and you will
be fine.
-Reach less than 38 Seal Rating during Chapter 7.
If you do all of the above, you will see a cutscene with Lucian in Chapter 7 as
soon as you reach less than 38 Seal. Once you see the cutscene your Seal Rating
doesn't matter anymore. Just play Chapter 7 normally and, when you get to the
Sacred Phase 7-8, things will be quite different. Freya will give you a
different mission.
Now, in Chapter 8, a new place will show up in the end of the Spiritual
Concentration: the Weeping Lily Meadow. If you go there you begin the sequence
of events that give you the A Ending.
Now that's fine and all, but getting the Seal low enough is quite a challenge
if you don't plan your actions well. After all, you have to send people up to
get all that MP and the overpowered items Odin rewards you with, not to
mention keeping your Evaluation to be able to steal those Artifacts without
getting the C Ending.
This may be the worst example of screwing over the player I've ever seen. without going into too much detail on the game mechanics, you essentially need to assume that everything the game tells you about how to play it is a lie from the jump, and NOT do what the game pesters you to do every chapter. It's completely reliant on a stat that is literally never mentioned in the game, it's just a mystery stat in your menu screen. Of course, you can't be TOO good at assuming the instructions are bullshit, because if you are then a character will descend from the heavens to kick your ass and end the game.
The "A" ending isn't just a cutscene, but an additional stage, "true" boss, and a reveal of the game's ACTUAL plot. It's critical to the game.
Darkstalker Kaathe was exactly what I was thinking of when I mentioned Covenants in Dark Souls. there is NO WAY anyone finds out about that without being told.
On a similar note, Valkyrie Profile locks the true ending of the game and a bunch of content behind some BULLSHIT:
SPOILERS BELOW
The best, most complete and most hidden ending in the game which you can't get
in Easy. There are several requirements to the A ending, but most are based on
the same thing: Valkyrie's Seal Rating.
Do not confuse Seal Rating with Evaluation, as they are two completely
different things. To check your Seal, go to Valkyrie's status screen. It's in
the place where you would find the Hero Value for other characters.
Anyway, the Seal has a value that goes from 0 to 100. The lower the better.
Some events will change the Seal, as such:
+2 for wearing the Nibelungen Ring during a Sacred Phase
+12 (!!!) for sending a character to Odin
-2 if you don't wear the Nibelungen Ring during a Sacred Phase
-2 when you recruit any character other than Lorenta and Lyseria
-15 if you go to the Weeping Lily Meadow
-15 if you go to Gerabellum from Chapters 2 to 5 before recruiting Lucian
-10 if you meet Brahms in his castle
-15 if you defeat Lezard Chapter 4
-15 if you recruit Mystina
-20 if you recruit Lucian
Getting a low Seal Value is just one of the requirements for the A Ending.
The other requirements are all events that change your Seal as well. You need
to do ALL of these below:
-Meet Brahms in his castle (-10 Seal)
-Defeat Lezard in Chapter 4 (-15 Seal)
-Recruit Mystina in Chapter 5 (-15 Seal)
-Recruit Lucian in Chapter 5 (-20 Seal)
-Send Lucian to Valhalla before Chapter 7. (+12 Seal)
He must survive the battles in Valhalla until Sacred Phase 6-7.
Just make sure he has the necessary Hero Value for that Chapter and you will
be fine.
-Reach less than 38 Seal Rating during Chapter 7.
If you do all of the above, you will see a cutscene with Lucian in Chapter 7 as
soon as you reach less than 38 Seal. Once you see the cutscene your Seal Rating
doesn't matter anymore. Just play Chapter 7 normally and, when you get to the
Sacred Phase 7-8, things will be quite different. Freya will give you a
different mission.
Now, in Chapter 8, a new place will show up in the end of the Spiritual
Concentration: the Weeping Lily Meadow. If you go there you begin the sequence
of events that give you the A Ending.
Now that's fine and all, but getting the Seal low enough is quite a challenge
if you don't plan your actions well. After all, you have to send people up to
get all that MP and the overpowered items Odin rewards you with, not to
mention keeping your Evaluation to be able to steal those Artifacts without
getting the C Ending.
This may be the worst example of screwing over the player I've ever seen. without going into too much detail on the game mechanics, you essentially need to assume that everything the game tells you about how to play it is a lie from the jump, and NOT do what the game pesters you to do every chapter. It's completely reliant on a stat that is literally never mentioned in the game, it's just a mystery stat in your menu screen. Of course, you can't be TOO good at assuming the instructions are bullshit, because if you are then a character will descend from the heavens to kick your ass and end the game.
The "A" ending isn't just a cutscene, but an additional stage, "true" boss, and a reveal of the game's ACTUAL plot. It's critical to the game.
It's not even that simple! You're supposed to go to them in the past, interact with them but choose not to open then, and then open them in the future. The items you get will be better, and it's the only way to get Moon Armor, which is "better" than Nova Armor and "the best" armor for the male characters. It's not actually better because Haste Helm and Nova Armor gives you Auto-Haste and all status immunities, whereas Moon Armor only gives you high defense with no bonuses.
I was going to quote the Persona 4 Golden post on the first page, but then I realized it would reveal the spoiler tag. Good to know that the "perfect" ending takes some extra work though!
It's my first time through P4G and I'm avoiding all guides (for the most part) but I was bummed to find out that I've missed two books that were only accessible if I'd gone to my room and received a phone call on a specific day.
It's no Zodiac Spear, but still pretty annoying. I have every other book damn it!
Years ago I was playing through Minish Cap for the first time, really enjoying it. I wasn't using a guide at all, playing legit and enjoying myself, solving all the puzzles myself etc. There were one or two things I wasn't sure how to solve yet but I figured I'd get them eventually with later items.
I was getting towards the end of the game and got to this one point in the game up in the clouds, some kind of sky town. I saved the game in front of a building and quit. For whatever reason I figured I'd finally check the internet to see if there was anything major I was missing at that point, cool items etc.
Turns out there is exactly one missable item in The Legend of Zelda: Minish Cap. The Light Arrows. You get them from an old man on his deathbed by blowing ghosts away that are swirling around him. For whatever reason it hadn't occurred to me to try the jar, I thought I'd get some item later that would do the trick.
And it turns out the man gives the arrows to you when you meet him later in the game, visiting his house in the sky. If you didn't blow away the ghosts earlier, by the time you visit him he is dead, and you can never get the arrows.
I had saved the game exactly at the point of no return, for getting one of very few permanently missable items in the entire Zelda franchise.
I couldn't bring myself to keep playing the game at that point. I have it on my Ambassador 3DS now but I still haven't beaten it. I also play games with guides open a lot more, because the alternative can be really frustrating.
Probably a Matsuno game like having to choose the correct reply of two ambiguous choices for character recruitment in Tactics Ogre, needed low Brave with Find Item in Deep Dungeon in FFT, Zodiac Spear in FF XII... These games have stuff you have no natural way to really ever discover on your own... Even Suikoden, while difficult not to miss stuff, can sort of avoid missing stuff by just purely re-checking towns and dungeons constantly -- a natural brute force approach. But Matsuno does some stuff that cannot even really be brute forced with relentless exploration, but is basically designed to read in a FAQ. Not only are they sometimes not natural to discover, they can actually be counter intuitive to natural or logical exploration. Character recruitment in OB is rather illogical but at least you could potentially trial and error that if you sort of guessed there was a character there. You could trial and error a bit in TO, too, though it would be hard to do that entirely naturally with a lack of actual hints. Even the Brave requirement in FFT Deep Dungeon, as illogical as that is, I suppose you could stumble upon that. The Zodiac Spear in XII though is like the culmination of all those, though to the extent that it's overpowered, it basically is a cheat code of sorts -- you're not supposed to naturally find it because it pretty much breaks the game. And finding it is basically like finding a cheat code lol.
It'd be different if they were just secrets and not miss-able, but these are cases where you get one chance and that's it. Done for that game file. Enjoy your 1 gil, phoenix down, etc.
Probably a Matsuno game like having to choose the correct reply of two ambiguous choices for character recruitment in Tactics Ogre, needed low Brave with Find Item in Deep Dungeon in FFT, Zodiac Spear in FF XII... These games have stuff you have no natural way to really ever discover on your own... Even Suikoden, while difficult not to miss stuff, can sort of avoid missing stuff by just purely re-checking towns and dungeons constantly -- a natural brute force approach. But Matsuno does some stuff that cannot even really be brute forced with relentless exploration, but is basically designed to read in a FAQ. Not only are they sometimes not natural to discover, they can actually be counter intuitive to natural or logical exploration. Character recruitment in OB is rather illogical but at least you could potentially trial and error that if you sort of guessed there was a character there. You could trial and error a bit in TO, too, though it would be hard to do that entirely naturally with a lack of actual hints. Even the Brave requirement in FFT Deep Dungeon, as illogical as that is, I suppose you could stumble upon that. The Zodiac Spear in XII though is like the culmination of all those, though to the extent that it's overpowered, it basically is a cheat code of sorts -- you're not supposed to naturally find it because it pretty much breaks the game. And finding it is basically like finding a cheat code lol.
It'd be different if they were just secrets and not miss-able, but these are cases where you get one chance and that's it. Done for that game file. Enjoy your 1 gil, phoenix down, etc.
You mention suikoden, but clives sidequest in 2 is time limited and tough to pull off. Almost no one gets this the first time through.
And no, the zodiac spear is nowhere close to overpowered. It has an attack stat of 150, the tournesol is 130 or so.
The masamune is better than both though, since it has a combo rate ten times higher than the spear, and with the genji glove will double hit on nearly every strike for 180 (90 x 2) damage. If you've already hit the damage cap (9999) via buffs, the masamune will WILDLY outdamage everything else in the game, hitting for 20k damage 75% of the time.
And that's before we consider that the nihalpaloa plus a remedy or Phoenix down will one hit kill almost any non boss monster in the game.
Probably a Matsuno game like having to choose the correct reply of two ambiguous choices for character recruitment in Tactics Ogre, needed low Brave with Find Item in Deep Dungeon in FFT, Zodiac Spear in FF XII... These games have stuff you have no natural way to really ever discover on your own... Even Suikoden, while difficult not to miss stuff, can sort of avoid missing stuff by just purely re-checking towns and dungeons constantly -- a natural brute force approach. But Matsuno does some stuff that cannot even really be brute forced with relentless exploration, but is basically designed to read in a FAQ. Not only are they sometimes not natural to discover, they can actually be counter intuitive to natural or logical exploration. Character recruitment in OB is rather illogical but at least you could potentially trial and error that if you sort of guessed there was a character there. You could trial and error a bit in TO, too, though it would be hard to do that entirely naturally with a lack of actual hints. Even the Brave requirement in FFT Deep Dungeon, as illogical as that is, I suppose you could stumble upon that. The Zodiac Spear in XII though is like the culmination of all those, though to the extent that it's overpowered, it basically is a cheat code of sorts -- you're not supposed to naturally find it because it pretty much breaks the game. And finding it is basically like finding a cheat code lol.
It'd be different if they were just secrets and not miss-able, but these are cases where you get one chance and that's it. Done for that game file. Enjoy your 1 gil, phoenix down, etc.
Hah, Matsuno is a nightmare with this stuff. In Ogre Battle, the only way to get the best ending/hidden levels/a whole bunch of awesome extra stuff without a guide is to essentially run over every pixel of every map to find a couple of hidden items in out of the way locations that give little to no indication of their future importance.
Hah, Matsuno is a nightmare with this stuff. In Ogre Battle, the only way to get the best ending/hidden levels/a whole bunch of awesome extra stuff without a guide is to essentially run over every pixel of every map to find a couple of hidden items in out of the way locations that give little to no indication of their future importance.
Charm tables lock players to certain loot drop %, these often block certain items being obtained in the game. This was due to an error in the code Capcom failed to notice before releasing the game as in previous games tables would change every time you reset the game. GG WP crapcom.
Dragon Age Inquisition Archon Staff. You have to choose to
sacrifice Iron Bull's men
, which then opens up a war table quest chain, which eventually rewards you with the staff schematic. The other best staff in the game is a random schematic drop from tier 3 chests. So annoying.
Lots of the Inquisition Agents disappear if you don't recruit them the first time you visit an area.
the zodiac spear is nowhere close to overpowered. It has an attack stat of 150, the tournesol is 130 or so.
The masamune is better than both though, since it has a combo rate ten times higher than the spear, and with the genji glove will double hit on nearly every strike for 180 (90 x 2) damage. If you've already hit the damage cap (9999) via buffs, the masamune will WILDLY outdamage everything else in the game, hitting for 20k damage 75% of the time.
And that's before we consider that the nihalpaloa plus a remedy or Phoenix down will one hit kill almost any non boss monster in the game.
i mean for the story... not talking about endgame stuff. you can get the spear at such a low level once you start your trek north and cheesing through the bomb gate boss and bum rushing to the acrop chests, and once you've got it, it's basically an i-win item for the rest of the story. it's so far high above all the other accessible weapons in the game at that point.
The Tales of series, as many have mentioned. It seemed like so many sidequests had virtually no indication as to why they became available when they did. Some made sense, like a major story point that changed the overworld would open some things. But so many are just, "go to an arbitrary past city you visited, and talk to an otherwise functionless NPC after a small progression of the main story".
This thread has once again convinced me to not worry about collecting shit for the sake of it in video games and to just do what the hell I feel like as I'm playing. My anxiety will kick in if I know I'm missing things, and I'll stop enjoying the game.
i mean for the story... not talking about endgame stuff. you can get the spear at such a low level once you start your trek north and cheesing through the bomb gate boss and bum rushing to the acrop chests, and once you've got it, it's basically an i-win item for the rest of the story. it's so far high above all the other accessible weapons in the game at that point.
So, you're saying that if you know about the spear ahead of time, sequence break by running into an area you're laughably underpowered for, make a beeline to it and try to run out before getting smoked by the monsters in there that you'll be overpowered at that point? No shit.
If you actually enter that area at a point where your level can handle the enemies, the spear is strong but not gamebreaking, and soon passed anyway by the masamune. And this isn't "endgame" but long before the storyline is over. The Masamune is available as early as clan rank 7. It's bizarre you would even make that claim. It's nowhere near as powerful as you're implying.
The only truly broken item in the game is the Niho (which CAN be gotten legitimately before the bomb king!) But it's not immediately obvious how gamebreaking it actually is.
