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[Azih]

As long as it's not mandatory I don't really see what the problem is.

Difference in bargaining power between employer and employee means that, especially in times of high unemployment, employers can force employees into situations that are detrimental for quality of life and health.

Basically a legal protection for employees has just gone poof in Wisconsin.

 

[IISANDERII]

The first sentence of the article is:



As long as it's not mandatory I don't really see what the problem is.

Then you have a lot of reading to do.

 

[Sulik2]

What is the purpose of living if you work every single day and not share your time with your family and friends?

You don't live for yourself, you live for your aristocratic overlord.

 

[Raistlin]

The first sentence of the article is:



As long as it's not mandatory I don't really see what the problem is. People in my workplace love to eat up as many hours as they can. The extra pay can make a big difference for some people.

But it can and will become de facto mandatory with many employers.

employer: "Are you willing to work 7 day weeks?"
employee: "No thank you"
employer: *'at will' fires employee when they find a candidate that says yes*​

Basically it will move the goalposts and become the norm.

 

[KingGondo]

As long as it's not mandatory I don't really see what the problem is. People in my workplace love to eat up as many hours as they can. The extra pay can make a big difference for some people.

It has been explained dozens of times in this very thread:

It isn't "mandatory" but some employers will sure "encourage" it.

 

[Prime crotch]

"hey, don't worry, it's opt in, you don't HAVE to do it... but you know, it really brings down morale for the whole team if you're the only one not doing it..."

Exploitative incentives simply got nicer, they never went away, now your boss is your chum, youre not gonna say no to your chum, right?

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

This will help bring Wisconsin out of its economic rut, I can't wait for when Walker becomes president so we can extend this nationwide and take it a step further by making it mandatory. Just imagine how productive this country would be if everyone within a certain income bracket worked seven days a week, our economic troubles will be over! Plus imagine how much we'll save on health care with so many people working themselves to death.

 

[AlimNassor]

Just worked about 27 days in a row. I think after the second week my managers were practically begging me to take days off as I was stealing all the hours. I'm shockingly not drained, if anything I'm relieved the stress is over as everything is good. But, mandatory? Fuck that shit.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Basically it will move the goalposts and become the norm.

I don't think 7-day work weeks are the norm in any state, and most states permit them. Despite whatever fever-induced nightmares the bulk of this thread has succumbed to, there's just not much demand for employees with no days off.

 

[uncelestial]

The problem is thus:

Employer: Sign this paper saying you are okay with working seven days a week.
Employee: Actually I'm not okay with that.
Employer: Well, I have six other guys waiting for your position that are.
Employee: ....I'm okay with it then.

The opinions of anybody who doesn't understand this, do not matter.

 

[ZackieChan]

The opinions of anybody who doesn't understand this, do not matter.

We all understand it perfectly. We're just waiting for some evidence of this happening in other States where this type of practice is allowed. Ya know, to actually back of this doomsday scenario.

Just worked about 27 days in a row. I think after the second week my managers were practically begging me to take days off as I was stealing all the hours. I'm shockingly not drained, if anything I'm relieved the stress is over as everything is good. But, mandatory? Fuck that shit.

Where does it say this will be mandatory?

I don't think 7-day work weeks are the norm in any state, and most states permit them. Despite whatever fever-induced nightmares the bulk of this thread has succumbed to, there's just not much demand for employees with no days off.

This. I have yet to read a convincing reason for an employer doing this. The 4 hours for 7 days a week reasoning is nonsensical.

I don't necessarily think it is a good thing to do this. I just don't make the jump to "America is doomed" and modern day slavery that others in this thread have done.

 

[jmood88]

The first sentence of the article is:



As long as it's not mandatory I don't really see what the problem is. People in my workplace love to eat up as many hours as they can. The extra pay can make a big difference for some people.

And the later sentences in both the article and throughout this thread show you how voluntary can change to "voluntary".

 

[uncelestial]

We all understand it perfectly. We're just waiting for some evidence of this happening in other States where this type of practice is allowed. Ya know, to actually back of this doomsday scenario.

The fact that you are "waiting for evidence" is proof you don't even remotely understand that issue, or much else about how job markets work.

 

[ivysaur12]

From a quick google search, there is no study that's been done on the effectiveness of allowing 7 day work weeks with no break in relation to hours, so everyone can continue to stake out their position based on their own preferences and partisan leanings as we all have, including myself.

 

[Metaphoreus]

The fact that you are "waiting for evidence" is proof you don't even remotely understand that issue, or much else about how job markets work.

This attitude only demonstrates your ideological commitment to your preconceptions--to you, it doesn't matter what the evidence from the 2/3 of the states (as of 2003, at least) where working 7 consecutive days is legal shows. It's bad, and you're going to keep believing it's bad because you just know that those scheming billionaires (which are the only types of employers, natch) are making everyone and his dog work 18 hours per day, 7 days per week.

 

[ivysaur12]

This attitude only demonstrates your ideological commitment to your preconceptions--to you, it doesn't matter what the evidence from the 2/3 of the states (as of 2003, at least) where working 7 consecutive days is legal shows. It's bad, and you're going to keep believing it's bad because you just know that those scheming billionaires (which are the only types of employers, natch) are making everyone and his dog work 18 hours per day, 7 days per week.

We also have no idea if it is working, given that (from a search) there doesn't seem to be any study even looking at the effects of this policy would be in states that have it.

So, you can either default to the idea that "workers will be taken advantage of by their employers" or "employers generally wouldn't take advantage of their workers" based on your own partisan beliefs. I've done it, in this thread! But don't act as if the poster your quoting is thread is the only one engaging in such heuristics.

 

[Metaphoreus]

We also have no idea if it is working, given that (from a search) there doesn't seem to be any study even looking at the effects of this policy would be in states that have it.

So, you can either default to the idea that "workers will be taken advantage of by their employers" or "employers generally wouldn't take advantage of their workers" based on your own partisan beliefs. I've done it, in this thread! But don't act as if the poster your quoting is thread is the only one engaging in such heuristics.

I'll add you to the list.

I think we'd hear a lot more about the 7-day-workweek if it had any kind of real prevalence in any state.

 

[ivysaur12]

I'll add you to the list.

I think we'd hear a lot more about the 7-day-workweek if it had any kind of real prevalence in any state.

And I think it's very easy for employee abuse by employers to fly under the radar of the general populace, given our country's apathy for the plight of the working ban and the unconditional belief in bootstraps. Both of us have literally nothing to go off of besides our gut on this particular issue. Fun!

But what list did I make tho I'm excited.

 

[Armoured Priest]

From a quick google search, there is no study that's been done on the effectiveness of allowing 7 day work weeks with no break in relation to hours, so everyone can continue to stake out their position based on their own preferences and partisan leanings as we all have, including myself.

I did find this article in regards to a 6 day work week vs a 5 day work week:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-working-6-days-a-week-is-bad-for-you-2013-11

It has several links to various studies within the article.

Not exactly what you're looking for (and I didn't read through all of the studies, so I can speak to all of the conclusions). But still, it seems to be related.

 

[ivysaur12]

I did find this article in regards to a 6 day work week vs a 5 day work week:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-working-6-days-a-week-is-bad-for-you-2013-11

It has several links to various studies within the article.

Not exactly what you're looking for (and I didn't read through all of the studies, so I can speak to all of the conclusions). But still, it seems to be related.

I'm more talking about distribution of hours per-week and use of working 7 days or a reduction of hours and eventual employment than productivity.

 

[uncelestial]

This attitude only demonstrates your ideological commitment to your preconceptions--to you, it doesn't matter what the evidence from the 2/3 of the states (as of 2003, at least) where working 7 consecutive days is legal shows. It's bad, and you're going to keep believing it's bad because you just know that those scheming billionaires (which are the only types of employers, natch) are making everyone and his dog work 18 hours per day, 7 days per week.

What the hell are you babbling about? Do you really need me to Google studies for you on this? On the effect that constant work, rising hours, and never having a day off actually has on people's lives? On how employers have moved the goalposts on norms? On how productivity has skyrocketed due to things like this while wages have stagnated, and how that's the main contributing factor to income inequality?

I mean, if you are that ignorant, I can go do that for you, but I really should not have to.

 

[Retrocide]

It's interesting that even the ancient jewish people understood the importance of at least one day off per week (the Sabbath). Hell, even God rested on the seventh day.

 

[jwhit28]

I don't think 7-day work weeks are the norm in any state, and most states permit them. Despite whatever fever-induced nightmares the bulk of this thread has succumbed to, there's just not much demand for employees with no days off.

It's the norm at my job. Next scheduled day off is Labor Day.

 

[jmood88]

It's interesting that even the ancient jewish people understood the importance of at least one day off per week (the Sabbath). Hell, even God rested on the seventh day.

It's also funny that the country with the stereotype of working until death (Japan) actually works less hours than we do.

 

[Metaphoreus]

What the hell are you babbling about? Do you really need me to Google studies for you on this? On the effect that constant work, rising hours, and never having a day off actually has on people's lives? On how employers have moved the goalposts on norms? On how productivity has skyrocketed due to things like this while wages have stagnated, and how that's the main contributing factor to income inequality?

I mean, if you are that ignorant, I can go do that for you, but I really should not have to.

This all boils down to, "Assume I made a successful, evidence-based argument." I'll decline. The more obvious the truth of the argument you want me to assume, the easier it will be for you to make it.

I should point out, though, that the argument you need to defend is not that "constant work, rising hours, and never having a day off" has a deleterious effect on employees; nor that "employers have moved the goalposts on norms" (whatever that means); nor that a discrepancy between productivity and wages has developed and is "the main contributing factor to income inequality." The argument you need to defend is that, in states that do not legally prohibit 7-day workweeks, employers require workers to work seven days a week. So don't waste your time researching those other topics, regardless how easy you think that research would be.

 

[Armoured Priest]

I'm more talking about distribution of hours per-week and use of working 7 days or a reduction of hours and eventual employment than productivity.

Yeah, at best, I have some anecdotes as far as that goes and those stories aren't going to change anyone's mind on the matter.

Short version: Some years ago, I was a temp and was let go because I didn't want/wasn't able to come in for overtime hours.

Short version 2: My dad told a story of a co worker who wanted to take a day off, but was on "mandatory overtime." Dad iterates law about production cannot be forced to work more than 14 days straight without a day off. Skeptical co-worker goes and researches and finds the law was actually 7 days (Dad was familiar with Pennsylvania law, not Wisconsin law). Happy co-worker posts the law on the community cork-board and takes his day off. Management grumbles, but can't do anything. This was back in the mid 90s, and yes, company was taking advantage of worker ignorance on the law.

 

[EatinOlives]

This is some real Gilded Age shit.

 

[Cidd]

New age slavery at it's best.

 

[gogosox82]

I remain baffled as to how this guy survived that recall and is a legit contender for the nomination.

 

[ivysaur12]

This all boils down to, "Assume I made a successful, evidence-based argument." I'll decline. The more obvious the truth of the argument you want me to assume, the easier it will be for you to make it.

I should point out, though, that the argument you need to defend is not that "constant work, rising hours, and never having a day off" has a deleterious effect on employees; nor that "employers have moved the goalposts on norms" (whatever that means); nor that a discrepancy between productivity and wages has developed and is "the main contributing factor to income inequality." The argument you need to defend is that, in states that do not legally prohibit 7-day workweeks, employers require workers to work seven days a week. So don't waste your time researching those other topics, regardless how easy you think that research would be.

still waiting on what list I made. love lists.

 

[Briarios]

This all boils down to, "Assume I made a successful, evidence-based argument." I'll decline. The more obvious the truth of the argument you want me to assume, the easier it will be for you to make it.

I should point out, though, that the argument you need to defend is not that "constant work, rising hours, and never having a day off" has a deleterious effect on employees; nor that "employers have moved the goalposts on norms" (whatever that means); nor that a discrepancy between productivity and wages has developed and is "the main contributing factor to income inequality." The argument you need to defend is that, in states that do not legally prohibit 7-day workweeks, employers require workers to work seven days a week. So don't waste your time researching those other topics, regardless how easy you think that research would be.

You can extrapolate from this - if you don't, you're behaving just like you're complaining others are: http://www.epi.org/publication/briefingpapers_bp120/

 

[Link]

Decades of progress in labor rights thrown right out the window because people are content to say, "Hey, you don't have to do it."

Do you people hear yourselves?

 

[Nastrodamous]

White people subjecting themselves to new age slavery under the guise of religion,immigrant and holding back minorities is hilarious.

 

[Yshi]

I know this is US related, but here in Brazil people that work 08:48 a day, and 44 hours a week, have saturday and sunday layoff to rest.

This look really bad for you guys I cant imagine work nonstop.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

How long until they start having part time hourly wage be more than full time? I predict them to start this in an attempt to get people to work only part time so they don't have to have benefits.

 

[capitalCORN]

People need to realize the American people now have to compete with the type of freedom employment style that's common in the East. If we don't compete, they'll be the ones with the freedom now!

 

[dropkix]

Dude. That's a really despicable move. Do Republicans hate working class people that much?

 

[Fenderputty]

This all boils down to, "Assume I made a successful, evidence-based argument." I'll decline. The more obvious the truth of the argument you want me to assume, the easier it will be for you to make it.

I should point out, though, that the argument you need to defend is not that "constant work, rising hours, and never having a day off" has a deleterious effect on employees; nor that "employers have moved the goalposts on norms" (whatever that means); nor that a discrepancy between productivity and wages has developed and is "the main contributing factor to income inequality." The argument you need to defend is that, in states that do not legally prohibit 7-day workweeks, employers require workers to work seven days a week. So don't waste your time researching those other topics, regardless how easy you think that research would be.

Just because it's not prevalent doesn't mean it's not being done, or that when it's being done it isn't shitty.

 

[Rad-]

Can someone explain to me what this means because some of these posts are giving me mixed signs. Is it A or B:

A: Work 7 days a week with 2 of them including overtime pay
B: Work 7 days a week with normal pay

 

[NeoXChaos]

The Democrats should have never tried recalling him. They share the blame.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/07/13/dear-democrats-you-only-have-yourself-to-blame-for-scott-walker/

That Democrats nominated Barrett — the same man who Walker had defeated in the 2010 general election — added to the sense among independents and undecided voters that this was primarily a partisan push to re-do a race in which they didn’t like the final result.

Looking back, it's clear that without the recall, there is no Scott Walker presidential announcement today. What the recall did was turn Walker into a conservative hero/martyr -- the symbol of everything base GOPers hate about unions and, more broadly, the Democratic party. He went from someone no one knew to someone every conservative talk radio host (and their massive audiences) viewed as the tip of the spear in the fight against the creep of misguided Democratic priorities. He became someone who had the phone numbers of every major conservative donor at his fingertips. He became what he is today: The political David who threw a pebble and slew the mighty liberal Goliath.

The recall was a major -- and long-tailed -- strategic mistake by Democrats. It elevated Walker from a low-profile governor into a conservative superstar. If Walker winds up as the Republican nominee in 2016 -- and he has a real chance to be just that -- Democrats have only themselves to blame for his rise. They made Walker into the kind of politician who could beat Hillary Clinton next November.

 

[daveo42]

I have zero issues with offering overtime to employees if demand dictates it, but people still need time off, not only for their families but for themselves. Working people into the ground just for the sake of an extra buck isn't the way to build up your middle class. It's a way to grind them down to pave the way for corporate profits. Maybe, just maybe paying your employees a livable wage would help increase their quality of life and increase the middle class, meaning more consumers to buy your stuff.

Nah...giving people who buy stuff more money to buy stuff with never works in a consumer economy. It would never work.

 

[Roude Leiw]

The first sentence of the article is:



As long as it's not mandatory I don't really see what the problem is. People in my workplace love to eat up as many hours as they can. The extra pay can make a big difference for some people.

WI is a fire at will state.

If i would be an douchey employer i would fire everyone who isnt willing to work the number of days im telling them to.

 

[radioactivez0r]

“Workers will now be in complete control of whether or not to work extra hours to earn more pay for their families,” Reader told Mashable.

All they have to do is volunteer to work more if they want more money! What's the problem? Sure, we could pay them a living wage, but then they wouldn't have the satisfaction of being "in complete control" of their work hours! WIN-WIN.

 

[Metaphoreus]

still waiting on what list I made. love lists.

The list of people engaging in such heuristics*.

You can extrapolate from this - if you don't, you're behaving just like you're complaining others are: http://www.epi.org/publication/briefingpapers_bp120/

No, you can't extrapolate from that. Hours/week doesn't translate into calendar days/week. If I work 6 12-hour shifts per week, then I've worked 72 hours without working on 7 days. On the other hand, if I work 7 daily 4-hour shifts, then I've worked 7 days, but only 28 hours. So, knowing that someone works X hours in a week doesn't tell us anything about whether that person worked on 7 days that week.

Just because it's not prevalent doesn't mean it's not being done, or that when it's being done it isn't shitty.

I wouldn't deny that it's being done. Some posters in this thread have mentioned working 7 days per week. Hell, after my freshman year of college, I worked at a fireworks warehouse 12+ hours per night, 7 nights per week for a month. So it's obvious that 7-day workweeks exist. But the impression I get from posts in this thread is that people are worried that suddenly everyone's going to be forced to work every day of the week, and I just don't see that happening to any great extent--no more so than in the states (or industries) with no restrictions on the 7-day workweek, at least. (In May 1985 (PDF), e.g., fewer than 3% of wage and salary workers nationwide worked 7 days a week. It's likely that this figure has changed in the intervening 30 years, but it's the only result my quick Google searches turned up.)

*I decided to spare you a King v. Burwell joke. You're welcome.

 

[ivysaur12]

The list of people engaging in such heuristics*.

*I decided to spare you a King v. Burwell joke. You're welcome.

Of course I do. It's important to understand our where our own biases come from. I was suggesting that, given the lack of studies I've found since I started posting in this thread, that we all relying on our own biases, making a headier discussion of probables than the issue probably necessitates.

I then wonder: Did the Wisconsin legislature look into other states with such a provision and value its effectiveness before changing this law? Again: this is related to all skepticism I have towards right-wing governments and workers' rights, but I also think it's a fair point in terms of why they changed this provision in the first place.

Also why would you spare me a Burwell joke?!

 

[Opto]

1: Destroy minimum wage
2: Destroy work hour regulations
3: Become new China.
4: Profit (not for you workers though)

 

[IISANDERII]

I think we'd hear a lot more about the 7-day-workweek if it had any kind of real prevalence in any state.

Yeah you haven't heard about it so it must not be a problem.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Yeah you haven't heard about it so it must not be a problem.

Well, 2.87% of a problem, I guess. If you deem it a problem at all. I'm happy to let adults make decisions for themselves without needing to get the government's permission.

 

[Link]

Yeah you haven't heard about it so it must not be a problem.

His logic for this stuff is always the same.

"It's cool. I doubt they'll take advantage of it. Relax. Nothing to worry about."

Every time without fail.

 

[Fenderputty]

I wouldn't deny that it's being done. Some posters in this thread have mentioned working 7 days per week. Hell, after my freshman year of college, I worked at a fireworks warehouse 12+ hours per night, 7 nights per week for a month. So it's obvious that 7-day workweeks exist. But the impression I get from posts in this thread is that people are worried that suddenly everyone's going to be forced to work every day of the week, and I just don't see that happening to any great extent--no more so than in the states (or industries) with no restrictions on the 7-day workweek, at least. (In May 1985 (PDF), e.g., fewer than 3% of wage and salary workers nationwide worked 7 days a week. It's likely that this figure has changed in the intervening 30 years, but it's the only result my quick Google searches turned up.)

*I decided to spare you a King v. Burwell joke. You're welcome.

I think most of the negative sentiment stems from the concept of, "give and inch take a mile"

The anti labor movement isn't encapsulated by this one law.