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[ivysaur12]

Essentially, you want the change from the status quo to be justified. That's a reasonable position to take, typically. However, I imagine the Republicans in Wisconsin would turn that around and ask that the status quo itself be justified. That would be my position, at least. What good reason is there to keep people from working when they want to unless they first get government's permission? I think that, at the very least, the fear of abuse should be substantiated before that infringement is considered justified.

And I'd like to see you prove this wouldn't be something to be abused. And you would go back and forth. At some point, I'd call you a poopyhead but probably apologize later!

I would feel more comfortable about this change if the Wisconsin legislature had statistics to back up why they felt this is a necessary change that we can debate. They don't. That worries me. I would then call for a study to measure it's effectiveness. I don't think that would pass, but now we're speaking in hypotheticals.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Maybe not, but I see little value in a thread where everyone calls each other a poopyhead, regardless of whether they tie that condition in to the validity of the others' arguments.

Fair enough, but similarly focusing on the most hyperbolic statements in the thread and mocking them isn't really any different.

 

[Fenderputty]

I think meta has already conceded to me that this could be abused and probably is somewhere. Just not in meaningful numbers

 

[Box of Kittens]

I think meta has already conceded to me that this could be abused and probably is somewhere. Just not in meaningful numbers

I think think that's in some sense the crux of this debate and what also makes it difficult to actually debate. In theory you're balancing between two problems (1) people who genuinely want to work seven days a week but can't or at the very least need to jump through hoops because of this regulation and (2) people who will be coerced into working seven days a week even though they don't actually want to.

The problem is I doubt there's statistics out there about either group (I'd love to be wrong about this). Certainly data about how many people work seven days a week says something but it doesn't really get to the heart of the matter, so really everyone's guessing in some sense.

 

[Kaiterra]

I've already known retail employees here that were being pressured to come in 7 days a week when it wasn't legal. So you can bet your ass that this is going to be abused by unscrupulous employers or even just shitty managers who don't know how to work a schedule.

 

[IISANDERII]

None of what you posted has anything to do with 7 day work weeks, specifically.

Yeah so working even more days will somehow alleviate the fact that people are already severely overworked. /s

Here you go:
Why Working 6 Days A Week Is A Terrible Idea
The importance of a 'stop day'

There you go, your dots are connected. Wow.

 

[ivysaur12]

Anecdotally, I was put in a very weird position this past week where I worked 7 days a week in a state where that's illegal, and this law would cover my profession. This came down to extremely poor planning on the part of my boss for something that had to get done by Saturday, and then something that had to get done on Sunday with no advance warning. I didn't say anything because I know how that ends -- there are a million people trying to do what I do, and complaining about days worked just won't end well. This has happened every other week the past two months for the same exact reason.

When it came time to put my timecard in, I was pressured to maybe only put one day on my timecard and then pepper the extra hours throughout the week and that it would get "made up later". This is pretty illegal and I didn't feel great about it, but what am I going to do? There's a big contingency of people at my level who have to fight line producers for worked over time. I commend them. I've never had a line producer that bad. But it's pretty common to see these people try to cut hours worked because they don't "give overtime" or "you're taking too much overtime" when those were hours that actually had someone working for said show.

That's sort of the bind that I come from when I think about these things -- even in a state with express protections against this type of behavior, it still happens. When I think about abuses of labor, my mind immediately tries to make it so these types of abuses aren't easier to happen, even though they probably already occur in Wisconsin.

 

[Box of Kittens]

I've already known retail employees here that were being pressured to come in 7 days a week when it wasn't legal. So you can bet your ass that this is going to be abused by unscrupulous employers or even just shitty managers who don't know how to work a schedule.

The issue of employers intimidating employees into accepting illegal practices is one of two big reasons why, for all their flaws, I believe labor unions are so important. If you have an organization that knows your rights and is willing to enforce them it makes it a lot harder to get away with things like that.

 

[Fenderputty]

I think think that's in some sense the crux of this debate and what also makes it difficult to actually debate. In theory you're balancing between two problems (1) people who genuinely want to work seven days a week but can't or at the very least need to jump through hoops because of this regulation and (2) people who will be coerced into working seven days a week even though they don't actually want to.

The problem is I doubt there's statistics out there about either group (I'd love to be wrong about this). Certainly data about how many people work seven days a week says something but it doesn't really get to the heart of the matter, so really everyone's guessing in some sense.

I agree with this. Pretty much all of it.

Yeah so working even more days will somehow alleviate the fact that people are already severely overworked. /s

Here you go:
Why Working 6 Days A Week Is A Terrible Idea
The importance of a 'stop day'

There you go, your dots are connected. Wow.

Wow is right. Firstly I have no idea why you're reacting so testy to me. Secondly, Meta is easily one of the most literal people I've ever had the pleasure of debating.

He asked spwcifically where being coerced to work 7 days is prevalent in the states it's allowed. Posting a bunch of stuff about why or how being overworked sucks in no way answers that. Neither does showing how we're all overworked.

 

[ZackieChan]

And I'd like to see you prove this wouldn't be something to be abused. And you would go back and forth. At some point, I'd call you a poopyhead but probably apologize later!

I would feel more comfortable about this change if the Wisconsin legislature had statistics to back up why they felt this is a necessary change that we can debate. They don't. That worries me. I would then call for a study to measure it's effectiveness. I don't think that would pass, but now we're speaking in hypotheticals.

We're all a bunch of assholes. Nice to see some common ground, finally.

I think meta has already conceded to me that this could be abused and probably is somewhere. Just not in meaningful numbers

I agree with this. Pretty much all of it.


Wow is right. Firstly I have no idea why you're reacting so testy to me. Secondly, Meta is easily one of the most literal people I've ever had the pleasure of debating.

He asked spwcifically where being coerced to work 7 days is prevalent in the states it's allowed. Posting a bunch of stuff about why or how being overworked sucks in no way answers that. Neither does showing how we're all overworked.

You're a good man. It's posts like the one you quoted and all the drive by "fuck Republicans" (I've never voted repub nor will I ever - I always go super liberal, never gonna win, party) that shit up the otherwise-rational debate.

 

[benjipwns]

Maybe not, but I see little value in a thread where everyone calls each other a poopyhead, regardless of whether they tie that condition in to the validity of the others' arguments.

This is exactly what a poopyhead would say.

 

[Fenderputty]

We're all a bunch of assholes. Nice to see some common ground, finally.





You're a good man. It's posts like the one you quoted and all the drive by "fuck Republicans" (I've never voted repub nor will I ever - I always go super liberal, never gonna win, party) that shit up the otherwise-rational debate.

I mean ... I'm capable of posting some "fuck republicans" shit but, if there's discussion to be had I think I generally go that route first. No poppyhead is perfect

 

[The Beard]

There are people at my workplace that want to work 7 days a week on occasion. It's not very common but there are people out there that love getting that OT.

 

[IISANDERII]

I agree with this. Pretty much all of it.




Wow is right. Firstly I have no idea why you're reacting so testy to me. Secondly, Meta is easily one of the most literal people I've ever had the pleasure of debating.

He asked spwcifically where being coerced to work 7 days is prevalent in the states it's allowed. Posting a bunch of stuff about why or how being overworked sucks in no way answers that. Neither does showing how we're all overworked.

Yeah I get testy when I have to hold people's hands.

But yeah, wow because I found data on what you asked for; working 7 days a week doesn't just "suck" [nice try to downplay it], it's detrimental to your health. Overwork is overwork, it doesn't matter if it's across 5 days or 7.

You can cherry pick all the questions and split all the hairs you want, it doesn't change a thing.

 

[Fenderputty]

Yeah I get testy when I have to hold people's hands.

But yeah, wow because I found data on what you asked for; working 7 days a week doesn't just "suck" [nice try to downplay it], it's detrimental to your health. Overwork is overwork, it doesn't matter if it's across 5 days or 7.

You can cherry pick all the questions and split all the hairs you want, it doesn't change a thing.

I don't think you're worth responding to anymore. I also don't think you're capable of reading comprehension.

 

[Weevilone]

My first job out of college was a horrible choice. I had several offers, but the douchebags I went to work for pumped me full of sunshine and I moved to Texas for a year.

Day one, instruction number one: The work week begins on Monday at 6:30AM and ends at 5:30PM with an hour for lunch. You'll work like that each week, but Saturdays are mandatory 6:00AM till noon. For the math impaired that's 56 hours with OT paid as straight time.

After a few days of initiation-type training, instruction two came along: Next week you'll begin mandatory after-hours training from 6:30PM until 9:30PM each week night. This isn't paid, but it's very valuable training so we're doing you a favor or something. When each training class ended another began.

The fact that there was no decent housing within like 45 minutes of the job site compounded things. I spent 10 months there and slept every Sunday. My wife was ready to divorce me, and I was completely ragged. We never saw any sights or had any enjoyment. I quit at 10 months and the company tried to recoup the moving expenses that they had paid when I joined them because I hadn't met their expectations and stayed for a year.

There's no way that a 7 day work week is beneficial for anyone. Humans have limitations, and regardless of their occasional desire/need for more money, they'll hit a productivity wall and the whole thing is a waste. Overtime is fine for short to moderate bursts, but it can't be sustained in a beneficial way.

 

[RustyNails]

My first job out of college was a horrible choice. I had several offers, but the douchebags I went to work for pumped me full of sunshine and I moved to Texas for a year.

Day one, instruction number one: The work week begins on Monday at 6:30AM and ends at 5:30PM with an hour for lunch. You'll work like that each week, but Saturdays are mandatory 6:00AM till noon. For the math impaired that's 56 hours with OT paid as straight time.

After a few days of initiation-type training, instruction two came along: Next week you'll begin mandatory after-hours training from 6:30PM until 9:30PM each week night. This isn't paid, but it's very valuable training so we're doing you a favor or something. When each training class ended another began.

The fact that there was no decent housing within like 45 minutes of the job site compounded things. I spent 10 months there and slept every Sunday. My wife was ready to divorce me, and I was completely ragged. We never saw any sights or had any enjoyment. I quit at 10 months and the company tried to recoup the moving expenses that they had paid when I joined them because I hadn't met their expectations and stayed for a year.

There's no way that a 7 day work week is beneficial for anyone. Humans have limitations, and regardless of their occasional desire/need for more money, they'll hit a productivity wall and the whole thing is a waste. Overtime is fine for short to moderate bursts, but it can't be sustained in a beneficial way.

Real talk.

 

[Crosseyes]

There are people at my workplace that want to work 7 days a week on occasion. It's not very common but there are people out there that love getting that OT.

Its for the good of all society that they need to be not allowed to work that to ensure no one can work 7 days straight without at least legal grounds for punishing the corporation.

Those who are willing and able may be disappointed but it is for the benefit of everyone, including themselves that the government doesnt allow them to work.

 

[IISANDERII]

I don't think you're worth responding to anymore. I also don't think you're capable of reading comprehension.

That's only because you lack critical thinking skills.

 

[Fenderputty]

Its for the good of all society that they need to be not allowed to work that to ensure no one can work 7 days straight without at least legal grounds for punishing the corporation.

Those who are willing and able may be disappointed but it is for the benefit of everyone, including themselves that the government doesnt allow them to work.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I agree with this as an ideal. We just don't live in an ideal world. The again, the reason I don't like the shit walker is pulling is because we dont live in an ideal world where employees are never coerced into working more than they want.

 

[benjipwns]

That's only because you lack critical thinking skills.

Short version:
Meta: "I haven't seen any examples of this slippery slope theory"
You: "overwork is bad for people"

 

[Fenderputty]

Short version:
Meta: "I haven't seen any examples of this slippery slope theory"
You: "7-day work weeks are bad for people"

Another person incapable of seeing that x=2 in 2+x= 5

 

[benjipwns]

What is this? The Gilded Age?

No, average wages haven't increased 50+% over the last ten years that I'm aware of.

 

[ZackieChan]

Another person incapable of seeing that x=2 in 2+x= 5

Don't you see that y is bad, though? Learn some critical thinking skills, pls

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Working 7 days a week is bad for your health, though. I don't see what's wrong with stating that.

 

[Fenderputty]

Working 7 days a week is bad for your health, though. I don't see what's wrong with stating that.

I don't think anyone was contesting that

 

[ZackieChan]

Working 7 days a week is bad for your health, though. I don't see what's wrong with stating that.

The problem is stating it in response to changing the law to allow employees to be able to do so easier. No one is saying that working 7 days a week isn't detrimental. We're just looking for some kind of proof that the change it the law is likely to lead to employers taking advantage/abusing/enslaving employees like many pointed out in the first few pages.