Support NeoGAF

[duessano]

No, not really.

Yeah, really they did. I think the their failure at scaling the UI is the worst. If it sold for $39.99, it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

 

[Portugeezer]

This game needed more time

 

[Ken Masters]

A 15GB day 1 patch should have told everyone very clearly this game was a rush job


But as long as idiot reviewers keep giving high scores, who cares?

 

[dark10x]

I'll say this before and I'll say it again, the fact that last gen games are struggling to maintain a framerate (regardless of "optimization") speaks volume as to the hardware in the nextgen boxes, and especially the x1.

People will say this stuff is "unoptimized" or whatever, but I fail to see how optimization at times is anything other than "making the game look worse so it runs better." The fact that it dips in halo 4 during hectic moments or level load moments tells you that has to do with heavier utilization and not inefficenies." It is wholly unsurprising that halo 5 beta will be 720p if this is the case. I find this a damn shame, because these games have great art direction and gameplay that need better hardware to be done justice too.

Yeah, it's quite disappointing.

I do think you're being a little harsh on the concept of optimization. It need not always mean "removing stuff". There are very real changes that can be made to improve performance without a massive loss in quality. It's not just about turning stuff off.

Still think the consoles are under-powered, though, but I'm not sure what else they could have done.

 

[FuturusX]

The UI screw ups whilst seemingly minor do feel like pimples on the surface and signal a general lack of care in the overall project. Ultimately one is left with a sense of "what could have been".

A great tech breakdown dark10x, thank you for your efforts.

 

[Dictator93]

Yeah, it's quite disappointing.

I do think you're being a little harsh on the concept of optimization. It need not always mean "removing stuff". There are very real changes that can be made to improve performance without a massive loss in quality. It's not just about turning stuff off.

Still think the consoles are under-powered, though, but I'm not sure what else they could have done.

Yeah I am being overly harsh on optimization in general, but we have to be frank about it in some sense of the word. 1 year into the console gen on boxes that have had SDK updates and in general are a lot easier to program for / optimize to than the previous ones. We will at some point have to say, "these boxes are being used quite well."

I would imagine this game is optimized well enough given those factors. I just think the hardware, probably single threaded performance and bandwidth related stuff, isn't upto snuff for 1080p 60fps when AI stuff starts happening or when alpha is everywhere. Most games drop frames as soon as the Ai routines start work, especially older ones where this stuff most definitely is scripted single threaded stuff. Crysis 1 for example has the AI done through Lua on one thread and still requires a beastly CPU to power through to get to 60.

 

[hwalker84]

A 15GB day 1 patch should have told everyone very clearly this game was a rush job


But as long as idiot reviewers keep giving high scores, who cares?

The 15GB patch is because the game is to large for a bluray.

 

[ascar]

This game needed more time

Xbox One did not have time... this holiday season is too important for the console...

 

[rayisbeast]

A 15GB day 1 patch should have told everyone very clearly this game was a rush job


But as long as idiot reviewers keep giving high scores, who cares?

That wasn't a patch. It was the multiplayer content because they couldn't fit everything on the disc.

 

[Exile20]

Xbox One did not have time... this holiday season is too important for the console...

This is not a good enough answer. The consumers get burnt every time.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Do you think it's reasonable and accurate to say the fidelity of H2A isn't suffering because of the switching feature?

 

[Noobcraft]

Do you think it's reasonable and accurate to say the fidelity of H2A isn't suffering because of the switching feature?

It's full 1080P in Multiplayer which lacks the feature so who knows?

 

[Mendax]

The 15GB patch is because the game is to large for a bluray.

how can that be? music and videos? those assets and textures cant take up more than a few gigs

 

[AlStrong]

how can that be? music and videos? those assets and textures cant take up more than a few gigs

An hour of HQ 1080p video for H2A should be pretty hefty.

 

[mrklaw]

It really depends on the title but I'd agree that 1/2/3 are running fine most of the time. 4 isn't, it suffers from very noticeable drops.

Selfishly I'm ok with that as Halo 4 is the most recently played and tbh I'm not in a hurry to replay it.

For the split screen modes - which are the thing I'm most concerned about - do the games still try and stay at 60 but fail, or do they sensibly switch down to 30?

 

[dark10x]

It's full 1080P in Multiplayer which lacks the feature so who knows?

The multiplayer runs on a modified Halo 4 engine which is not true of the Halo 2 Anniversary campaign.

 

[hawk2025]

Ive played through the entire chapter 3 at Halo CE yesterday with Anniversay graphics. There was some noticiable stuttering, sure. The most apparent until now was at chapter two when I got the warthog. But I think, until now, that still it is completely playable honestly. I still think they should give us the option to play at locked 30 though, sometimes the stuttering can be a bit annoying.

With Classic mode though, yeah, it runs perfectly fine.

"completely playable" is such a fucking low bar, though.

The point of this collection is to make them definitive, to make them proper 60fps that highlights the beautiful gameplay.

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

The split screen frame-rate is disappointing for the older games. I plan on playing lots of couch co-op, but hopefully this won't be too horrendous.

 

[farisr]

Selfishly I'm ok with that as Halo 4 is the most recently played and tbh I'm not in a hurry to replay it.

For the split screen modes - which are the thing I'm most concerned about - do the games still try and stay at 60 but fail, or do they sensibly switch down to 30?

Judging from the comments, it seems like it's not being switched down to 30. Runs at an unlocked framerate with a lot of fluctuations. Halo 3 splitscreen faring the best running almost identical to single player. No word on 4 player splitscreen in any of the games, people just haven't tried it out yet.

On that note, I just find some of the defending here ridiculous (not everyone is doing it), as though expecting the splitscreen modes to be optmiized or to run smoothly is entitled because of how much "value" there is in the release. To those saying this, splitscreen has been a staple of the Halo franchise from the beginning, some people were looking forward to this release mainly for the local multiplayer+splitscreen options that come with these games. Value goes out the window for these people when the only mode they were looking forward to runs poorly on a console that is stronger.

I really hope they come out with the 30fps lock patch soon for the splitscreen modes are effected. Or heck, do some sort of optimization like maybe running it at a lower resolution or less fidelity in that mode to maintain a smooth framerate, I've seen games do this before. I'm not a programmer so I don't know how it works, but if knocking down the resolution or asset quality in multiplayer to 900p or 720p, will help them get a smooth 60fps in multiplayer, I'm all for it. Or if 1080p @ 30fps will result in a smooth experience for splitscreen, I'm cool with that as well.

 

[AlStrong]

Do you think it's reasonable and accurate to say the fidelity of H2A isn't suffering because of the switching feature?

The only thing I can think of is that they need to have the depth buffer for the classic mode for geometry boundaries (related to physics/pathing/ etc). *shrug*

 

[AlStrong]

I really hope they come out with the 30fps lock patch soon for the splitscreen modes are effected. Or heck, do some sort of optimization like maybe running it at a lower resolution or less fidelity in that mode to maintain a smooth framerate, I've seen games do this before. I'm not a programmer so I don't know how it works, but if knocking down the resolution or asset quality in multiplayer to 900p or 720p, will help them get a smooth 60fps in multiplayer, I'm all for it. Or if 1080p @ 30fps will result in a smooth experience for splitscreen, I'm cool with that as well.

The 2/3 player splitscreen for Halo 3 & 4 renders native with the black bars, so it's actually already a lower resolution. Generally the bottleneck for split-screen will shift towards the front-end of the rendering i.e. CPU & geometry setup, as there's a scaled up count of objects to be rendered.

30Hz lock would probably be the better solution for split-screen consistency (IMHO).

 

[ascar]

This is not a good enough answer. The consumers get burnt every time.

I am not saying it is right, I am saying that this is what I think happened. Can you imagine the backslash in case of delay to spring 2015 (the same year as halo 5) and how holidays 2014 would have gone for xbox one only with the AC bundle (and considering the clusterfuck Unity is...)

 

[AlStrong]

I am not saying it is right, I am saying that this is what I think happened. Can you imagine the backslash in case of delay to spring 2015 (the same year as halo 5) and how holidays 2014 would have gone for xbox one only with the AC bundle (and considering the clusterfuck Unity is...)

At least in the documentary, they mentioned they weren't sure for a while whether or not to do H2A solo or the MCC, so at least H2A could have been fine, but I get the feeling they also started the rest of the ports too late (very little leeway for development snags).

Of course, hindsight is 20/20, and I have no doubt they'll apply what they've learned here to future potential projects...

On a side note, I'd be a bit curious about how they handle a unified launcher interface, especially regarding disc users in the future. The unification is great in theory, but it falls apart if folks have to keep switching discs (MCC vs H5/Reach/ODST/etc).

 

[dark10x]

The 2/3 player splitscreen for Halo 3 & 4 renders native with the black bars, so it's actually already a lower resolution. Generally the bottleneck for split-screen will shift towards the front-end of the rendering i.e. CPU & geometry setup, as there's a scaled up count of objects to be rendered.

30Hz lock would probably be the better solution for split-screen consistency (IMHO).

Absolutely. A 30Hz cap would have solved this issue in most cases.

Halo Anniversary and Halo 4 would still suffer since HA seems to run just under 30 fps a lot of the time while Halo 4 often dips into the teens. It would still provide a much more pleasant experience overall.

 

[Shin-Ra]

The only thing I can think of is that they need to have the depth buffer for the classic mode for geometry boundaries (related to physics/pathing/ etc). *shrug*

This was the original explanation:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/10...o-the-master-chief-collection-story-ign-first

Here's an explanation from 343 executive producer Dan Ayoub: “During development we were really pleased with the way the engine and buffer allowed us to switch instantly between classic and Anniversary engines that are running simultaneously – however that, as you might expect, put a hit on resolution. The campaign of Halo 2: Anniversary looked fantastic at 720p with the level of detail and clarity it gave us, but like every other aspect of the game and tech, we wanted to push it further. So in the last weeks of development, our teams were able to meet a stretch goal and the campaign of Halo 2: Anniversary now runs 60 fps at a crisp resolution of 1328x1080, which is a significant and meaningful boost in image quality we think fans are really going to appreciate. All of the other games across the entire package of The Master Chief Collection run 60 fps at 1920x1080 native.”

Now, I don't buy that 720p60 was their original target for H2A but this is a direct contradiction:

A fade in wouldn't work. The engine is either running in sync or it isn't. The fidelity of the game is not suffering, it's balanced to achieve a set goal. We've been very open about this throughout, as you know.

 

[dark10x]

So I was messing with Halo on the original XBOX and discovered one visual effect that I missed in the article. In the second mission (Halo) when you first gain control of a warthog the game sends you down into a forerunner cave on the way to the bridge battle. On the original XBOX they use a thick fog effect throughout this section but, in the MCC, they've replaced it with a more basic fog that looks totally different. A minor thing, no doubt, but I was surprised to see it go missing. That same area with the Anniversary visuals looks completely different as well (very well lit and not at all like the original art).

I'll have to keep digging and see if I can notice any other missing things.