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[adamsapple]

Well, I enjoyed Infinite!

Me too, the campaign is good. Don't care for MP stuff much.

They couldn’t help? Arguably one of the best FPS developers in the industry and you don’t put them on Halo?
Idk seems like a goofy decision after how many chances were given to 343, but what do I know.

We're talking about a UE5 campaign that's years away, who knows what support studios they will get in between now and whenever the game comes out X number of years later.

ID helped BGS with Starfield, they are very likely helping Machine Games with Indiana Jones as well considering they both work for the same Zenimax wing of XGS.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Me too, the campaign is good. Don't care for MP stuff much.

Much my situation. I dibble-dabbled in the multi, but the single player was where it was at!

 

[diffusionx]

They couldn’t help? Arguably one of the best FPS developers in the industry and you don’t put them on Halo?
Idk seems like a goofy decision after how many chances were given to 343, but what do I know.

The 343 today is not the 343 that released or "maintained" Infinite, it's a totally different studio.

I feel like putting ID on Halo is a waste of ID at this point, they should keep developing the Doom franchise and games like that rather than putting them on the smoldering ruins of Halo.

 

[DGrayson]

Its always the same story with these big franchises. They turn into an unwieldy line on projected financial statements that have to be fulfilled.

Take a break, like a real break for a couple years, come back fresh, new team, new faces, new ideas. Release a great game that's polished with some new ideas. If they did that there is a chance for it to be a real financial success and make more money even with taking a couple years off. But they just cant do it.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Loved Halo Infinite and liked the look of the game. Would have rather saw the team use idtech myself but I would imagine the tech team have their reasons for going Unreal 5

Just hope the team built on the Infinite and offer more environmental diversity like what was shown off in the E3 trailer

 

[DR3AM]

The next Halo will be cool and stuff but where's Tatanka???

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Kinda bummed about dropping Slipspace. An open world Halo at 120hz on Series X is a real feat, and that's not going to happen on UE5. I also think the gaming landscape looks more varied with multiple engines, and the consolidation to just UE5 and Unity is getting upsetting. I get the reasoning for the move, and I hope they make it work, but I also hope the next game looks and feels like Halo. I'm really curious about the end result of all of this.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

What you think any one of Activisions main COD teams can switch to a new engine, learn it and still pump out a new COD game that will look and perform better than the engine they all know inside out? In under 3 years?

More importantly why would they? To impress a couple of nerds on a forum?

Give me a break.

If it took a few years who cares? We don't need a new cod every year. Besides both engines are similar with the ID Tech 7 being massively newer.

For me no matter how many upgrades cod gets the assets and art or whatever it is. It's just a very distinctive look that cod has that just looks old no matter what.

Cars never look or feel right. Especially how they blow up everything that isn't a human feels like it's made out of rectangles.

Feels like objects are glued to the environment

 

[clarky]

If it took a few years who cares? We don't need a new cod every year.

Im sure Activision/MS wont mind passing on a couple of Billion a year while infinity ward get upto speed on ID tech to male the game look 10% better

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Zero chance but still, I’d love a third person spin off.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Im sure Activision/MS wont mind passing on a couple of Billion a year while infinity ward get upto speed on ID tech to male the game look 10% better

How many teams do they have again.... don't answer.

10% better? Yeah you don't know.

The yearly refresh is why the series doesn't get much respect from serious gamers.

Back to Halo... performance is key so this is another reason UE5 doesn't seem to be the right choice.

 

[clarky]

How many teams do they have again.... don't answer.

10% better? Yeah you don't know.

The yearly refresh is why the series doesn't get much respect from serious gamers.

Back to Halo... performance is key so this is another reason UE5 doesn't seem to be the right choice.

Serious gamers? Yeah we're done here.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Serious gamers? Yeah we're done here.

You need to be

 

[Slicker than your average]

Why get rid of slipstream? Was promoted as some next gen gorgeous engine? Unreal wont save incompetence

 

[Dr.D00p]

Switching to UE5 will at least allow them to recruit a team from a much wider talent pool than the relatively small in house engine they were using.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Just effin' stop it. It's dead.

 

[Darsxx82]

Why get rid of slipstream? Was promoted as some next gen gorgeous engine? Unreal wont save incompetence

Finally SpliceEngine was not as versatile as thought. Developers had to be "trained" to get the best performance and that complicated the processes of hiring new devs and development times.

With UE5 it is easier to "fish" for new developers and achieve results more quickly. Adds that MS has in The Coalition the Studio (apart from Epic itself) that best knows UE5 and its optimization to XSeries. I mean, it makes a lot of sense. And (this is a personal matter) that the change to UE 5 could be only for the campaign would make it even more meaningful.

 

[kriolo]

OK so we forget of a small chance of 60 FPS

 

[Mister Wolf]

They should use Lumen but not Nanite. Using both is too demanding.

 

[00_Zer0]

Fist I hope they fired all those responsible for all the bad decisions in Halo Infinite. Including higher ups that let that game release the way it did. 343 have been screwing up Halo for years. I thought MS would shutter that company by now. They don't hold a candle to Bungie, let alone some other internal studios within MS. Time to give it to a different developer. Instead MS doubles down and gives it right back to the team that screwed the franchise up in the first place. UE5 can't change bad game design and bad story telling. I'm sticking with Master Chief collection on Steam.

 

[LordBlodgett]

Man Gaf is super negative about Halo right now. I'm actually super excited by the fact that the guy who fixed MCC and has worked on polishing HI is now in charge of the whole studio. He has proven he knows how to fix shit, now we get to see if he can take a project from start to finish. Can't possibly be worse than Bonnie Ross in my opinion, and this is the definition of merit based decision making. I am concerned about how they will use UE5 in multiplayer, as I haven't seen too many examples that live up to Halo Infinite level multiplayer yet.

 

[sendit]

Rumor - Halo Infinite is the currently biggest project in the gaming industry (Update: Reported False by Frank O'Coner)

Gears 5 was definitely better than Gears 4, but let's not forget how much better was Bleszinski Trilogy. It's like no contest. When it comes to Halo, I don't know, I enjoyed ODST the most. Reach second, but even now I cannot finish it in MCC. I don't see much difference between 3 or 5. Aside...

www.neogaf.com

edit: fucking hell man, you've posted 2 posts down from there too lol

 

[stickkidsam]

I hope this next game is reboot of the 343 trilogy. Infinite has gotten to a point where I can say it's a decent game, but the story has completely lost me. I wouldn't mind them keeping some elements like exploring deeper lore, Chief and Cortana's relationship expanding, or the Banished. The execution of so much has just fallen so flat though.

The multiplayer for Infinite has some neat stuff too like equipment and armor cores (needs cross core). It just feels like there's a lot of details, big and small, that hinder the overall experience. Fingers crossed the new studio head can turn things around.

 

[ResilientBanana]

I hope this next game is reboot of the 343 trilogy. Infinite has gotten to a point where I can say it's a decent game, but the story has completely lost me. I wouldn't mind them keeping some elements like exploring deeper lore, Chief and Cortana's relationship expanding, or the Banished. The execution of so much has just fallen so flat though.

The multiplayer for Infinite has some neat stuff too like equipment and armor cores (needs cross core). It just feels like there's a lot of details, big and small, that hinder the overall experience. Fingers crossed the new studio head can turn things around.

All helmets in Season 5 become cross core. I think the difficulty with making the rest of the armor cross core would be clipping, but I don't know.

to others:
After not playing for so long, I hopped back in the other day. I think it's time to stop shitting on Halo Infinite, the game has some legs now, it's fantastic.

 

[X-Wing]

I mean... changing to UE5 probably will allow the team to focus on the things that matter.
But then again it's a Microsoft studio and it's 343, so...

 

[Diddy X]

Here we go again.. I still don't believe this one bit. It's waaay too much work to switch engine completely and throw away everything they've built. And the new forge, almost like an entire game engine inside Halo. I cannot believe they'd simply build all from scratch again.

Also, insert obligatory "halo is ruined, halo needs to be removed from 343" post, while the game is actually thriving, with a world championship literally yesterday and season 5 coming out tomorrow looking better than ever, letting people now create PvE experiences in forge.

Never change, neogaf

People here will say everything xbox related is dead or a failure no matter what

 

[Wimbledon]

They made changes to Management, in fact everyone i wanted out is gone. They've quietly have been fixing the game, firefight is coming out which might get me back in it, but the damage that 343i originally did really hurt the franchise.

I wish them luck cause it does seem like they are trying to make a change. Honestly the only thing they can do is go up, Halo infinite despite its flaws was the correct step in the right direction they just need to build off that.

I'd like to see this new management team pull it off. Cause i've been screaming my piece about how detrimental the past management was, frankie , kiki wolf kill , and the worst one Bonnie Ross. So heres hoping that alot of the changes they made works out for them.

 

[TheShocker]

I really hope the shake up at 343i paid off. Infinite was a massive disappointment. I enjoyed the campaign and still regularly play MP, but man was it a shell of what it could have been.

 

[CamHostage]

Take a break, like a real break for a couple years, come back fresh, new team, new faces, new ideas. Release a great game that's polished with some new ideas.

Unfortunately that was only possible in the multi-project days of big studios. Now, they may have a small pioneer team doing the B- project while A-project is in full swing, but otherwise it's uncommon to have a scenario where staff can float; they usually need every person they have just to get through one project on time.

(Insomniac is a rare case of productivity and flow, and nobody has really explained why they're still capable like old- school studios, but I'd love to know what their formula is and how it could seed more like it...)

343 itself is tasked with shepherding Halo, so that would be even more complicated to "take a break". It's all they do.

 

[Forth]

I'm currently playing Infinites campaign and I'm really enjoying it. It's a shame that when it's finished then there's no continuation but the moment to moment gameplay is fantastic.
I really wish they would have let the campaign team continue, because all it really needed was continued updates like new biomes with new stories.

 

[stickkidsam]

All helmets in Season 5 become cross core. I think the difficulty with making the rest of the armor cross core would be clipping, but I don't know.

to others:
After not playing for so long, I hopped back in the other day. I think it's time to stop shitting on Halo Infinite, the game has some legs now, it's fantastic.

The cross core on helmets is good news, though I find it odd how long it’s taking. We’ve seen that the clipping isn’t really a big deal on the AI Spartans, but meh. Progress is still good.

The game absolutely deserves praise for all the improvements. It’s a solid time on its own. It’s just stuff like missing social features, gameplay decisions like the way vehicles blow up or no team collision, and the way the physics and sound feel that all add up to a game which just feels off for me. Still a good game, but I hope a sequel can alleviate that stuff.

 

[damidu]

give it to coalition while you are at it.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I really want more Halo to be honest. I'm going to be pissed with all these encyclopedias I have based on the games and they just quit the series.

I wish we could get more spin-offs like the old days. So, in other words, Halo 7 but also a side game like a Halo ODST. I still think I Halo game based on the Forerunner and Human War would be interesting. It's not explored much and it's in prehistory where everything is a lot more like a Star Wars.

 

[clarky]

Halo Infinite has good Multiplayer, and a pretty good Campaign.
Halo 5 had brilliant Multiplayer....fuck the Campaign.
Halo 4 was a good campaign....fuck the Multiplayer.

Spot on.

 

[Mortisfacio]

Honestly if it weren't for the repeated asset overworld, I'd put Infinite as the best campaign in the series. Multiplayer was fun too, but playing on PC I got burned out on the de-sync issue and my challenges resetting and not progressing. Often times was getting ones like "Get 25 kills with a pistol" and I'd get say 22, go into the next game, it's reset to 0. Only solution was to either get 25+ in a single match or quit and reload the game for that bug to fix. It's what killed my enjoyment.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Infinite pulled off the open world thing and they positioned the villains for success down the road, villifying Cortona was another good decision.

 

[DanielG165]

Awesome. They're replacing the engine, the one thing that wasn't the issue.

The engine they used for Infinite WAS one of the major issues, though. Engines are simply tools, how well a developer can efficiently use it or not is another matter.

 

[IFireflyl]

The engine they used for Infinite WAS one of the major issues, though. Engines are simply tools, how well a developer can efficiently use it or not is another matter.

The engine that 343 built from the ground up for Halo Infinite was one of the major issues of the game? No. The major issues of the game were management and GaaS related. This includes ridiculous battle pass crap, the inability to manage teams to meet roadmap items in a timely manner, being far too reliant on contractors instead of having full-time employees who know the ins and outs of the job, and the abandonment of promised features after people had already purchased the game (such as split-screen co-op, which was likely abandoned due to the Xbox Series S limitations). These weren't issues that were related to the game engine. What major issues are you thinking of that were engine-related?

 

[Panajev2001a]

The engine that 343 built from the ground up for Halo Infinite was one of the major issues of the game? No. The major issues of the game were management and GaaS related. This includes ridiculous battle pass crap, the inability to manage teams to meet roadmap items in a timely manner, and the abandonment of promised features after people had already purchased the game (such as split-screen co-op, which was likely abandoned due to the Xbox Series S limitations). These weren't issues that were related to the game engine. What major issues are you thinking of that were engine-related?

We will likely never know how easy to use the Slipspace Engine is or not, if its tools were hell for gameplay and level devices, and how well it played with DCC tools (Photoshop, 3D modelling tools, etc…)… maybe it was particularly shitty. Maybe they are going to spend a lot of time customising UE5 for their needs…

Or… 343i did not learn their lesson with waves of short term contractors after waves of them and the kind of problems this causes (extreme brain drain, people constantly handing over work to people that have no experience in it, etc…) and UE5 ensures almost anyone coming in has experience with the engine and tools (or so they think).

 

[clarky]

The engine that 343 built from the ground up for Halo Infinite was one of the major issues of the game? No. The major issues of the game were management and GaaS related. This includes ridiculous battle pass crap, the inability to manage teams to meet roadmap items in a timely manner, and the abandonment of promised features after people had already purchased the game (such as split-screen co-op, which was likely abandoned due to the Xbox Series S limitations). These weren't issues that were related to the game engine. What major issues are you thinking of that were engine-related?

Slipstream is just an updated version of blam if im not mistaken. it isnt new and has always been tricky to develop on since the bungie days. Add in the amount of short term contractors at 343 and the time it takes the to get upto speed on an engine theyve never used before, hence why they are shifting to unreal.

 

[ahtlas7]

Yay!

 

[FireFly]

The engine that 343 built from the ground up for Halo Infinite was one of the major issues of the game? No. The major issues of the game were management and GaaS related. This includes ridiculous battle pass crap, the inability to manage teams to meet roadmap items in a timely manner, being far too reliant on contractors instead of having full-time employees who know the ins and outs of the job, and the abandonment of promised features after people had already purchased the game (such as split-screen co-op, which was likely abandoned due to the Xbox Series S limitations). These weren't issues that were related to the game engine. What major issues are you thinking of that were engine-related?

Based on the rumours and what 343 have said, the game shipped with a huge amount of technical debt that prevented them from bringing out significant updates. In the first year after launch we got a couple of maps and some new game modes, which paled in comparison to what Halo 5 shipped over a similar time period. It was a "GaaS" title with less significant updates than what boxed games receive!

The contractor issue also relates to the engine in the sense that new employees would have to learn the custom engine from scratch, rather than being able to get up to speed immediately. By transitioning to UE5 this should be significantly alleviated for future titles. And now that the technical debt issues seem to be in the past we are finally seeing significant content updates that at least match what we got with Halo 5.

Edit: And to be clear the engine was not built from the ground up. It was an evolution of the Blam engine. It's a "new engine" in the same way that Starfield's engine is.

 

[Riky]

My main concern with this move if true is that we are not going to get all the features that Halo Infinite will deliver with Season 5 shortly. We're literally going to be able to make our own campaigns very soon, something most developers could only dream about. It's taken 3 years but 343 have actually delivered, the game is in great shape.
In another way since Xbox first party do seem to be heavily in on UE5 with The Coalition actually involved in the engine then it makes some sense and if it cuts development times then it's a plus.

Time will tell.

 

[IFireflyl]

Based on the rumours and what 343 have said, the game shipped with a huge amount of technical debt that prevented them from bringing out significant updates. In the first year after launch we got a couple of maps and some new game modes, which paled in comparison to what Halo 5 shipped over a similar time period. It was a "GaaS" title with less significant updates than what boxed games receive!

The contractor issue also relates to the engine in the sense that new employees would have to learn the custom engine from scratch, rather than being able to get up to speed immediately. By transitioning to UE5 this should be significantly alleviated for future titles. And now that the technical debt issues seem to be in the past we are finally seeing significant content updates that at least match what we got with Halo 5.

With regards to the contractor issue, that's still a management problem, not an engine problem. The engine itself isn't insufficient. The issue is that Microsoft/343i keeps letting go of the people who built and worked with the engine, and they kept electing to train contractors instead of hiring full-time employees who could learn the engine and be permanent cogs in the machine. As I originally said, the engine itself was never the issue.

As far as the technical debt goes, that still isn't engine-related. It's management-related. Microsoft just dropped $69 billion on ABK, and they can't even properly manage Halo. The company itself isn't functioning properly, and they need to get it together. Halo was one of my favorite IPs. Now it's a joke. That disgusts me.

 

[Hudo]

Its always the same story with these big franchises. They turn into an unwieldy line on projected financial statements that have to be fulfilled.

Take a break, like a real break for a couple years, come back fresh, new team, new faces, new ideas. Release a great game that's polished with some new ideas. If they did that there is a chance for it to be a real financial success and make more money even with taking a couple years off. But they just cant do it.

This.

They should go and ruin Gears of War in the meantime.

 

[Panajev2001a]

My main concern with this move if true is that we are not going to get all the features that Halo Infinite will deliver with Season 5 shortly. We're literally going to be able to make our own campaigns very soon, something most developers could only dream about. It's taken 3 years but 343 have actually delivered, the game is in great shape.
In another way since Xbox first party do seem to be heavily in on UE5 with The Coalition actually involved in the engine then it makes some sense and if it cuts development times then it's a plus.

Time will tell.

Have not seen such a well realised “everything is good, I have concern that we are choosing between a great option full of hope and another great option… wow everything is so good” spiel like from you yet.

“343 actually delivered, game is in great shape, etc…” sure buddy, sure. Yeah, people on Xbox making their own brand new campaigns with alternate biomes, adding co-op, etc… at this point you must be a community manager or something, waste too much energy to do it for free and I do not think people get so delusional (maybe it is me and my wishful thinking, maybe fanboys do get this delusional…).

 

[Panajev2001a]

With regards to the contractor issue, that's still a management problem, not an engine problem. The engine itself isn't insufficient. The issue is that Microsoft/343i keeps letting go of the people who built and worked with the engine, and they kept electing to train contractors instead of hiring full-time employees who could learn the engine and be permanent cogs in the machine. As I originally said, the engine itself was never the issue.

As far as the technical debt goes, that still isn't engine-related. It's management-related. Microsoft just dropped $69 billion on ABK, and they can't even properly manage Halo. The company itself isn't functioning properly, and they need to get it together. Halo was one of my favorite IPs. Now it's a joke. That disgusts me.

Agreed, but the same management that caused many of those issues is persevering and trying to make their old strategy succeed (as a company they generally can buy their way out of problems which is not really what soul searching and changing direction is about).

So instead of changing their stance about the way they use contractors they try to make it work by standardising on third party tech that makes it easier to handle new people coming in and out all the time… meanwhile they do spend billions and billions in buying publishers (they could invest in their devs but it would not help them cut the oxygen off their direct competitors… this shows you their priorities).

 

[Sorcerer]

I wonder if Epic will offer MS 100% of the revenue if MS puts it on the Epic Game Store exclusively?

 

[Beer Baelly]

 

[FireFly]

With regards to the contractor issue, that's still a management problem, not an engine problem. The engine itself isn't insufficient. The issue is that Microsoft/343i keeps letting go of the people who built and worked with the engine, and they kept electing to train contractors instead of hiring full-time employees who could learn the engine and be permanent cogs in the machine. As I originally said, the engine itself was never the issue.

As far as the technical debt goes, that still isn't engine-related. It's management-related. Microsoft just dropped $69 billion on ABK, and they can't even properly manage Halo. The company itself isn't functioning properly, and they need to get it together. Halo was one of my favorite IPs. Now it's a joke. That disgusts me.

It's a management problem that leads to an engine problem. I agree that just changing the engine isn't going to resolve the underlying issues. But whatever changes they make will be helped by having an engine that is easier to work with. Like for example we are now seeing the expected level of content updates even though the changes that enabled these came before the management exodus.