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[Meccanical]

So he already drew an exaggerated muscular dwarf. If that was really what we was trying to say, he could have just linked to that, right?

Don't be coy,what's your point.

 

[Soriku]

Don't be coy,what's your point.

She's saying he called him gay.

 

[nailbombxx]

So, because people enjoy the art in this game and because people dislike Kotaku, it's perfectly fine to resort to an insult that boils down to "you are gay."

That's always nice to hear.

Kamitani would have drew a penis if that was his point.

 

[Gravijah]

Don't be coy,what's your point.

There's nothing coy about that post.

 

[sorakirosaki]

Heh, I made similiar observations amongst my female peers when it comes to sexual contents in games and comics. My female flatmate finds humour in Dead or Alive, not offense - to the point that every so often when we have company, she asks me to show them the intro of Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 Another female friend of mine watched Zombie Ass - Toilet of the Dead (google it if you dare... Japanese B-movie from Noboru Iguchi who also did Robo Geisha and The Machine Girl) with me and we laughed all the way through that strange movie^^

Maybe, shockingly, some things really shouldn't be offensive but only a matter of taste instead.. and as I wrote in my first post, there are gender issues in the gaming world, but this total concentration on character designs (while most of the time completely ignoring the role of the character) in fantasy/scifi/superhero/b-movie style games is beginning to get on my nerves (I'd get the point if a character in, say, a more realistic game such as Heavy Rain would have a completely sexualized design not at all fitting their role). Woha, am I... offended?

Yeah a lot of my artists friends find things i find weird to be interesting or enjoyable then again i guess it also applies to the experiences people have. For example im used to a lot of nudity and dont find anything wrong with it (woah) but its because im exposed to it everyday when i have to draw people in the studios at my school.

 

[AstroZombie]

Is this thread gonna end with futa doujin giveaways as well?

God I hope so.

*googles*

 

[Kokonoe]

Don't be coy,what's your point.

She's saying if that was his intention then why did he not just link to a picture of an overblown fictional character that already is in the game.

 

[SuperSonic1305]

I'm offended that the men are topless but the women aren't. This is blatant sexism and double standards.

 

[MechaX]

Don't be coy,what's your point.

She's saying he called him gay by using a drawing of the three dwarves to prove his point when he very easily could have articulated it just by drawing one character or using characters already in the game.

 

[Dyno]

Jason's comments on Kotaku fail simply because they're not professional. He's entitiled to his opinion and when he goes out for beers with his friends he's free to say what he said, but while on the clock as a writer he shouldn't be insulting and ignorant to the subject he is covering.

As for the Vanillaware President who apparently designed the characters, I give him a free pass. If some artless critic is going to be shitty towards something I have worked long and hard to make, then fuck him! If he can't be polite and professional in his appraisal then why should the other person be held to a higher standard?

 

[eastx]

Ad hominem.

On topic, I'm sure the art direction will dissuade and persuade people with regard to purchasing. I don't think creators should censor their work to appeal to a broader audience. Unfortunately for him, this guy just proved the writer's insinuation rather than refuting it.

I guess, but if you act humorless you certainly invite the observation of such.

The only thing the artist proved (other than he doesn't take things too seriously) is that the game's men are muscular and sexualized as well as the women. Which should be a-okay with people who aren't afraid of skin and such.

 

[Neuromancer]

Wow! What a thing to wake up to. I am gonna head to the office, and then I guess I'll respond to this situation in a bit.

How's the response coming along?

It'd be interesting if you found a way to take the high road on this.

 

[Meccanical]

She's saying he called him gay.

is being gay wrong now?

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

My goodness, you guys sure can read too much into things.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

So Kotaku says the game's art was immature and the reply is basically "LOL U R GAY!" And people defend the response. Fucking partisan bullshit. If the same article was about some Eastern European RPG instead of a flagship PS4 title you'd be singing a different tune.

What?

Dragon's Crown isn't a PS4 game.

 

[Dead Man]

is being gay wrong now?

Using accusations of being gay as an insult certainly is.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Does it matter even if he is calling him gay? Not that I think that to be the case, but Kamitani is being accused of being a teenage boy, so he's replied in an appropriately teenage way, seems fine to me.

 

[Soriku]

I'm offended that the men are topless but the women aren't. This is blatant sexism and double standards.

I agree. If they're gonna show that much boobage, go all the way!

is being gay wrong now?

Nope. But his statement and pic was meant to be insulting.

Doesn't bother me though!

 

[nailbombxx]

Keep complaining, this will get this game some nice exposure. The number of men with insecurities about animated characters is bound to be less than those who don't give a shit.

 

[CambriaRising]

Hey, Uthred, your bus is here.

By your reasoning you don't have the right to read anything into what I posted. Do you? I just want you to leave this thread and I'm showing you a vehicle to do it with.

The difference is that you know what you mean, but are trying to lie about the meaning.

Or something

You realize if the point you are trying to make stands than you just effectively insulted him for no reason, and also failed to prove your point because of the above paradox.

 

[AstroZombie]

is being gay wrong now?

Purposefully obtuse or just extraordinarily dense? I can't decide.

 

[Gravijah]

Does it matter even if he is calling him gay? Not that I think that to be the case, but Kamitani is being accused of being a teenage boy, so he's replied in an appropriately teenage way, seems fine to me.

How is that in any way a proper defense?

 

[Minyobi]

Lord help us when Hyung-Tae Kim is contracted to do the art for another game.

 

[Gbraga]

*googles*

BAHAHAHA

Welcome to the club, brother! It's only a matter of time

 

[ciridesu]

Guys. Just maybe, he decided to bring that drawing as an example, because it is his portrayal of men in a sexual manner. Just maybe there was no innuendo about JS being gay or something.

 

[robotzombie]

Let's pretend that i have an issue with how woman are portrayed in Baywatch.

The creator responds with a picture of 3 half naked men and implies this would better suit my taste.

I don't know how much cultural differences can take you on this.

But here's the thing, in your example, there are already giant, buff, half naked men on the show, which for some reason weren't complained about. If someone completely isolates the sexualization issue to only the women characters, despite the fact that the men are sexualized the same way, then I don't see an issue with making a lighthearted, winking response using an equal but opposite example.

On a side note, I'm pretty sure a true, actual homophobe would be too horrified to even draw such a picture, let alone throw it out to the public with his or her name attached to it. (bonus points: I wonder how many people were thrown for a loop when i said "his or her" due to associating the word homophobe exclusively with males)

In general, the guy made an equal but opposite example as a joke. I'm sure if the article was only about how ridiculously buff the guys were, he'd respond with a drawing like the sorceress as a joke

 

[Pinko Marx]

The character design is 100% of the reason why I'm not buying the game.

Personally I don't care if male or female characters are butt ass naked, but in this case they are so so disgustingly deformed that is is completely distracting and cringeworthy whenever I see people post the gifs and drooling over them for some disturbing reason or another.

Got don't like the art style the game utilizes. Tuats okay. But to call other people liking it disturbing is not.

 

[Soriku]

How is that in any way a proper defense?

It wasn't meant to be a "proper" defense. It was just a "lol bitch pls" statement. Make a stupid article, he gets that as his response.

Meh.

 

[cutmeamango]

So he already drew an exaggerated muscular dwarf. If that was really what he was trying to say, he could have just linked to that, right?

That... still doesn't explain why he couldn't have just drawn those characters, ones that are actually in the game to show his point, rather than drawing not one, not two, but three naked dwarves.

They are already in the game whose art Schreier is criticizing.
Either they were ignored or missed. Or they are implicit in the "teenage" criticism, wouldn't know.

But allow me to assume that in the imaginary appointment to those pieces I quoted/linked, the response by this now common, simplistic reading would be: "They (dwarf and magician exageration) are not the same.".

 

[tafer]

is being gay wrong now?

Looks like some people likes to consider that he was using it in an offensive way so they could be even more outraged about this subject.

Damn, they are good.

 

[Alucrid]

My goodness, you guys sure can read too much into things.

Sorry that we can infer things.

Guys. Just maybe, he decided to bring that drawing as an example, because it is his portrayal of men in a sexual manner. Just maybe there was no innuendo about JS being gay or something.

Did you not read his comment that went along with the picture?

 

[Schobeleth]

My goodness, you guys sure can read too much into things.

Yeah I think it's just the typical response from anything that is wildly different from what we're used to. Vanillaware is known for having awesome, and or crazy stylized art - they just upped the ante with Dragon's Crown. It's clearly working, the game is on everyones' radar now, it's become the new thing for people to scrutinize or talk about.

 

[Takamura-San]

I was pointing out that saying someone is gay isnt actually an insult (though it can of course be intended as an insult) and treating it as such is wrong. Your response to that implied that Mr Kamitani intended to insult Mr Schreier by calling him a homosexual. In turn I pointed out that you dont know what Mr Kamitani intended and were putting forward your interpretation of his intent as fact.

Well, Mr. Kamitani is basically implying that the only valid reason that Jason may have an issue with the sorceress picture is because he likes men.

 

[Gravijah]

On a side note, I'm pretty sure a true, actual homophobe would be too horrified to even draw such a picture, let alone throw it out to the public with his or her name attached to it. (bonus points: I wonder how many people were thrown for a loop when i said "his or her" due to associating the word homophobe exclusively with males)

Then I don't think you realize how homophobia works in a lot of societies, where homosexuality essentially amounts to a joke. Which is exactly what it's being used as in this example.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

How is that in any way a proper defense?

Why does it have to be 'proper'? It's the equivalent to 'do you eat shit?' - Who is Schreier to call Kamitani a 14 year-old boy? And why does Kamitani have to give a shit how he responds? People get up in arms about the most pointless stuff.

 

[BHK3]

The difference is that you know what you mean, but are trying to lie about the meaning.

Or something

You realize if the point you are trying to make stands than you just effectively insulted him for no reason, and also failed to prove your point because of the above paradox.

Same thing goes for the OP, we don't know what he meant, whether he said something or not he could lie if he ever makes a statement which brings us back to square 1.

 

[Kokonoe]

Is this thread gonna end with futa doujin giveaways as well?

God I hope so.

I guess white knight GAF will find this extremely offensive: giant, helicopter tits!

Keep complaining, this will get this game some nice exposure. The number of men with insecurities about animated characters is bound to be less than those who don't give a shit.

I'd like to point out that this kind of stuff is frowned upon here and does nothing for the discussion other than instigate fighting about the subject being taken personally.

 

[Dead Man]

Looks like some people likes to consider that he was using it in an offensive way so they could be even more outraged about this subject.

Damn, they are good.

:/ If he was calling him gay because he didn't like that particular art, yeah, it's pretty offensive. Before you rush off to dismiss me, notice the 'if'.

 

[CambriaRising]

Same thing goes for the OP, we don't know what he meant, whether he said something or not he could lie if he ever makes a statement which brings us back to square 1.

Yeah, that was my point.

 

[aeolist]

But here's the thing, in your example, there are already giant, buff, half naked men on the show, which for some reason weren't complained about. If someone completely isolates the sexualization issue to only the women characters, despite the fact that the men are sexualized the same way, then I don't see an issue with making a lighthearted, winking response using an equal but opposite example.

On a side note, I'm pretty sure a true, actual homophobe would be too horrified to even draw such a picture, let alone throw it out to the public with his or her name attached to it. (bonus points: I wonder how many people were thrown for a loop when i said "his or her" due to associating the word homophobe exclusively with males)

In general, the guy made an equal but opposite example as a joke. I'm sure if the article was only about how ridiculously buff the guys were, he'd respond with a drawing like the sorceress as a joke

the existence of straight male privilege in modern society means that objectification of women is more harmful than that of men

it's ok guys i just won the thread you can all go home now

 

[Gravijah]

Why does it have to be 'proper'? It's the equivalent to 'do you eat shit?' - Who is Schreier to call Kamitani a 14 year-old boy? And why does Kamitani have to give a shit how he responds? People get up in arms about the most pointless stuff.

Yes, people get up in arms about the most pointless stuff. Like some random blog writer talking about a game.

But an insult involving sexual orientation is not pointless.

 

[antitrop]

To play the devil's advocate, this character isn't sexualized - but a male "power fantasy" archetype. At least, I'm guessing that is what most feminists would say. It's not really the same thing.

Well the feminists are wrong. It's a sexualized power fantasy.

 

[suzu]

So if I hide my slurs through "thinly veiled", "ambiguously" worded sentences it's okay? And it's not like his clarification will actually clear anything up. He won't come out and say, "Yeah, Schreier totally wants muscular, oiled dwarfs."

I am not implying that it is okay. I'm just speaking for myself. I would definitely be more upset if he had used an actual slur. As I see it, it just seems to be a dumb bad joke, which he should apologize for anyway.

Edit: I think the Kotaku "article" is also stupid.

 

[tafer]

:/ If he was calling him gay because he didn't like that particular art, yeah, it's pretty offensive. Before you rush off to dismiss me, notice the 'if'.

Even assuming the if, why is that offensive?

 

[Persona86]

wtf

how can you people think this is ok

Because there's enough serious things in the world to add another thing to the list to take serious.

Because many of the past world problems and past wars are because people take things too serious.

Personally I've had enough of taking everything so serious, too much stress not enough time.

SpaceGhost says it best.

Life is too short to get angry over big boobs or muscle men.

 

[pwack]

I can't believe anyone thinks the response was not a juvenile attempt to call JS gay. Sure, it could mean something else, but the far most reasonable reading is that this is a pictorial version of "ur gay!"

I was on the fence about buying this game as is. I mostly play my Vita on my commute, and as a 34 year old professional I simply would not be comfortable with other adults watching me play as the sorceress or amazon. But what appears to be a juvenile and homophobic outburst from the designer means I definitely won't buy.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Sorry that we can infer things.

There's a difference between making a legitimate inference and twisting something solely so that you can be outraged and then complain about it on a message board.

 

[Dead Man]

Even assuming the if, why is that offensive?

It is using an accusation of homosexuality as an insult. It should be clear why that is offensive. It means the person saying it considers being gay to be insulting.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Don't be coy,what's your point.

A question perhaps more appropriate for Kamitani than anyone else.

 

[aeolist]

Even assuming the if, why is that offensive?

because it's using someone's presumed sexual orientation as a slur, and it's presuming that sexual orientation entirely based on the fact that the person in question finds some of the most sexist female art i've ever seen in games to be offensive