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[A Human Becoming]

Purely out of curiosity, if we used the same system as last year, but modified to allow more points, would those of you unhappy with this system be in favor of it?

- list from 1 to 10 games
- you get 20 points max
- only one game can receive 4 points
- only two games can receive 3 points
- you allocate the points yourself.

Generally, a typical list of 10 would look pretty much the same as what was listed in the OP, KevinCow's example, etc. But everybody would have the same total number of points allowed and you wouldn't need to worry about "padding" to get your top games the max points.

This means that the remaining 10 points could be distributed freely among the other seven games, correct? So someone could post:

1. 4
2. 3
3. 3
4. 2
5. 2
6. 2
7. 2
8. 2

I think setting limits is important, but not requirements, in case someone wants to vote like this:

1. 2
2. 2
3. 2
4. 2
5. 2
6. 2
7. 2
8. 2
9. 2
10. 2

You guys keep coming up with better solutions.

 

[man of science]

Another vote for 2X + 2. Fixes the only problem with the OP imo.

 

[timetokill]

This means that the remaining 10 points could be distributed freely among the other seven games, correct? So someone could post:
<list snip>

I think setting limits is important, but not requirements, in case someone wants to vote like this:
<list snip>

You guys keep coming up with better solutions.

Yes, both ways would be possible under those rules.

 

[Haunted]

I really think for simplicity and fairness you should just do this:

Top 5.

That's it. Every voter has to list 5 games or their vote does not count. All this tiered, complicated stuff is needlessly complex.

Top 5. The end.

That's the system Bobby Kotick and the big publishers would like to see.

Niche titles getting screwed over in favour of a more narrow selection perfectly suited to pimp the triple A blockbuster titles.

Well and often the top five or so are from a fairly narrow pool of games. It's those lower selections where you start to see a few really interesting things pop up. I like checking out the games that end up somewhere in spots 11 - 30.

Well said, good sir.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I'm open to many different systems, but any that has a "you decide the amount of points!" is one I'll almost certainly be against.

I can deal with all sorts of variations on the 'set number of points' theme (including those in the OP), but something like last year's doesn't do it for me.

 

[Haunted]

Yes, both ways would be possible under those rules.

Oh no, don't you falter now. :lol Don't even think about bringing back last year's system of free point allocations.

Feedback to the revamped system with set points in your OP (with ZealousD or Porthos adjustments) has been overwhelmingly positive.

 

[Corto]

Well said, good sire.

M'lady, peasant!

Spoiler

isn't it?

 

[SirSwirl]

Well that's assuming a lot... Maybe the person feels that from all the games he or she played only one deserved the commendation.

There were a lot of games this year though, if one bought a lot of them I don't think it would be that difficult to find 10 games they liked.

 

[timetokill]

Oh no, don't you falter now. :lol Don't even think about bringing back last year's system of free point allocations.

Feedback to the revamped system with set points in your OP (with ZealousD or Porthos adjustments) has been overwhelmingly positive.

:lol :lol :lol I've been greatly enjoying your posts about all of this, really!

 

[Ashes]

Question separate what other people are discussing.

Are we to list platforms for multi-platform games?

reason I ask: I kind of want to see the percentage of gaf who puts say bayonetta x360, as their number 1 title, against the percentage of people who rate it bayonetta on ps3, as their no1 title. Or other such permuatations.

ps. this system is a littel too convulted. Simplicity ought to the order of the day. It should be about honesty, not about playing the game, to give your title or vote the best shot at affecting the voting system.

I think it's all about asking the right question. Ask your self these questions to get your game of the year. (I'll leave the maths up to you though)

step 1. Do you have an single outstanding title of the year?
yes. Allocate certain amount of points.
no, go to step ...
none, go to step...

step 2. Do you want to reccommend other games?
no: Thank you, you're done.
Yes. (please note whether you are ranking them in order, or just listing them, or a mixture of both. These are the rules etc

Step 3. Do you have more than one outstanding game of the year?
1. yes.
erm... I don't know about this. You don't get to pick more than one without putting either one at a point disadvantage.
Has this even been brought up?

Step 4.
Do you want to just rank your top ten, and keep things simple?
1. yes.Thank you, you're done.
2. I prefer a top five.

Step 5.
Do you want to just rank your top five, and keep things simple?
1. yes. Thank you, you're done.
2. I prefer a top three

Step 6.
Do you want to just rank your top five, and keep things simple?
1. yes. you're done. thank you

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'd prefer a system where people named one game and that's it.

A lot of people would be pissed they couldn't name ten games, but it would sure as hell be more decisive.

 

[Dabanton]

So do we get to vote for our top 10 different voting methods?

 

[Articalys]

The real problem here seems to be balancing the conflicting motives of "help people who want to advocate a diverse set of titles" vs. "don't punish people who only want to vote for one or two games."

 

[Yeef]

I'd prefer a system where people named one game and that's it.

A lot of people would be pissed they couldn't name ten games, but it would sure as hell be more decisive.

That's boring.

You're boring.

As someone else mentioned, seeing how the outliers rank amongst one another is interesting and with a single vote that would be gone.

 

[The Faceless Master]

the new scheme sounds ridiculous, and people who need to list a dozen games for 'game of the year' instead of 1 or 2 games need to step back and think about why they can't narrow it down to a few games. it's like having your cake and eating it too. why should someone get "more votes" because they can't commit? if you want to list more games, each game should be worth less points, it's just that simple.

ain't no half-steppin'

 

[flintstryker]

I'd prefer a system where people named one game and that's it.

A lot of people would be pissed they couldn't name ten games, but it would sure as hell be more decisive.

I agree with this.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I'd prefer a system where people named one game and that's it.

A lot of people would be pissed they couldn't name ten games, but it would sure as hell be more decisive.

I agree with this. There could be separate threads for lists and the like.

GOTY thread - one game. It'll make every person's vote meaningful. All these other systems, while workable, are compromising the power of any individual's vote.

 

[Fredescu]

I'd prefer a system where people named one game and that's it.

A lot of people would be pissed they couldn't name ten games, but it would sure as hell be more decisive.

Who cares about being decisive? This has nothing to do with right or wrong. This is about coming up with a list of cool games in a fun quantitative fashion involving the GAF community. More games! More votes! Hang those who talk of less.

 

[shintoki]

I'd prefer a system where people named one game and that's it.

A lot of people would be pissed they couldn't name ten games, but it would sure as hell be more decisive.

I think this is much better than, name your top 10. It gives it more of an absolute answer, then the same dozen(Triple AAA HD Console + Token Wii) title titles being 7-8 slots in every single list. With hardly any diversion.

I'd be okay even with a GOTY and Runner up. Where GOTY gets 3 points and Runner up gets 1.

 

[stupei]

I think this is much better than, name your top 10. It gives it more of an absolute answer, then the same dozen(Triple AAA HD Console + Token Wii) title titles being 7-8 slots in every single list. With hardly any diversion.

I'd be okay even with a GOTY and Runner up. Where GOTY gets 3 points and Runner up gets 1.

See, I honestly don't care which game wins GOTY on GAF, and I'm surprised that apparently some people do so much that they want the answer to be more clear cut and exact.

I care what the overall top 20 list looks like. I care which DS games got the most or which sports games. If you look back at past GAF GOTY threads, you really might not agree with the number one choice, but you'll be hard pressed to argue with the overall quality of the top 10. That's the point; not naming one specific game overall winner.

 

[StuBurns]

I think this is much better than, name your top 10. It gives it more of an absolute answer, then the same dozen(Triple AAA HD Console + Token Wii) title titles being 7-8 slots in every single list. With hardly any diversion.

I'd be okay even with a GOTY and Runner up. Where GOTY gets 3 points and Runner up gets 1.

I like the GotY and Runner Up style too personally.

 

[The Faceless Master]

No.

Whoever said that it encourages people to actually put thought into their lists instead of throw some shit up there like:

"1. KILLZONE 2 10 PTS LOLOLOL"

was correct. If somebody actually put:

1. Heavy Rain
2. NBA Elite
3. PAIN expansion pack
4. Farmville 2.0 update
5. Poker Stars Blackjack

to pad out their lists, they will be laughed at. I don't think that will be an actual problem.

sounds like the people here who only really want to vote for one game now have a great list to pad with. thanks!

 

[Semblance]

There could be separate threads for lists and the like.

I would like to see one of these anyway, regardless of how these voting rules end up. A thread where we can list our favorites and explain why we enjoyed them and whatnot vs. simply just making a straight voting list. I always like reading those, as well as making my own. But that's probably just me, heh.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I've always liked the idea of a "here is my vote, here is my runner-up" system, with other threads generally talking about "best moments" or "best third-person shooter encounter" or something. Not for list's sakes, just hear people really articulate why specific parts of a game really worked for them. It's something I find more interesting than wide-lensed camera-sweeps over a whole game.

 

[The Faceless Master]

See, I honestly don't care which game wins GOTY on GAF, and I'm surprised that apparently some people do so much that they want the answer to be more clear cut and exact.

I care what the overall top 20 list looks like. I care which DS games got the most or which sports games. If you look back at past GAF GOTY threads, you really might not agree with the number one choice, but you'll be hard pressed to argue with the overall quality of the top 10. That's the point; not naming one specific game overall winner.

might as well allow everyone list 1-20 games and every game gets 1 point. that will make it really diverse! wait, no, let's call it the blackjack system. the top game gets 2 points, the others (2-20 if listed) get 1.

 

[timetokill]

I would like to see one of these anyway, regardless of how these voting rules end up. A thread where we can list our favorites and explain why we enjoyed them and whatnot vs. simply just making a straight voting list. I always like reading those, as well as making my own. But that's probably just me, heh.

You'll be able to give descriptions and explanations for your choices in the GOTY thread. No problem with that. The goal is to make the thread fun to read, not just a list of votes. I'll also be taking comments made about some of the winning games and adding them to the results thread.

For full-on diatribes or lengthy discussions, the OT of that game is probably the best place, though.

 

[user_nat]

It would be interesting to have 2 separate GOTY polls. One for people who would like to create a list and one for people who would simply like to vote for a single GOTY.

I don't think we should do this, but it would be interesting to see if the same games ended up on top.

 

[shintoki]

See, I honestly don't care which game wins GOTY on GAF, and I'm surprised that apparently some people do so much that they want the answer to be more clear cut and exact.

I care what the overall top 20 list looks like. I care which DS games got the most or which sports games. If you look back at past GAF GOTY threads, you really might not agree with the number one choice, but you'll be hard pressed to argue with the overall quality of the top 10. That's the point; not naming one specific game overall winner.

It's not actually about who wins GOTY. It's the exact opposite. If people have to pick one title, the list will probably have more variety. Those experiences that were fantastic will stick out more compared to those that were just played more. For example, that one Anmensia vote, now holds a lot more sway. It will still be flooded out by a bunch of HD Twin AAA titles, but it's not going be up against 10 lists, with 8 titles that just switch places. It allows for a lot more discussion over the titles to occur to rather than....Well these are the 10 I liked(and in many cases, the only 10 I may have played this year).

For example, a sneak peak at our top 20 would be. Mass Effect 2, RDR, Super Mario Galaxy 2, God of War III, Heavy Rain, GT5, Starcraft II, Halo Reach, Bayonetta, Bad Company 2, CODBlOPS, Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, and Fallout Vegas.

Finally, I'm not hard pressed at all to argue most Top 10's. It's pretty easy actually when you already know the bulk of them. :lol

 

[Deleted member 30609]

we should probably just have a mod-made poll for

Old Style
Last Year Style
One-Choice Style
This Year's Proposed Style

seems like the fairest way of doing it.

 

[Rainier]

I'd prefer a system where people named one game and that's it.

A lot of people would be pissed they couldn't name ten games, but it would sure as hell be more decisive.

Bah, I'm switching my vote to this. After all, we're picking the Game of the Year, not Games of the year.

we should probably just have a mod-made poll for

Old Style
Last Year Style
One-Choice Style
This Year's Proposed Style

seems like the fairest way of doing it.

But you can only vote for one, right?

 

[timetokill]

It would be interesting to have 2 separate GOTY polls. One for people who would like to create a list and one for people who would simply like to vote for a single GOTY.

I don't think we should do this, but it would be interesting to see if the same games ended up on top.

I will be providing those results already, there's no need for a second thread. Last year it was under the "Passion Award." Assuming everybody is putting their "one GOTY" at the top of their list, I compile a list of games receiving top votes. For example, here is last year's Top 20 (21, due to ties) based only on top choices:

Last Year's Passion Award

01. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 390
02. Demon's Souls 92
03. Dragon Age: Origins 83
04. Batman: Arkham Asylum 77
05. New Super Mario Bros. Wii 54
06. Street Fighter IV 53
07. Assassin's Creed 2 46
08. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 20
09. Borderlands 18
10. Left 4 Dead 2 18
11. Killzone 2 17
12. Halo 3: ODST 14
13. Trials HD 11
14. Infamous 9
15. Forza Motorsport 3 9
16. Little King's Story 9
17. Flower 6
17. Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II 6
17. Wii Sports Resort 6
17. Machinarium 6
17. Bayonetta 6

 

[StuBurns]

It would be interesting to have 2 separate GOTY polls. One for people who would like to create a list and one for people who would simply like to vote for a single GOTY.

I don't think we should do this, but it would be interesting to see if the same games ended up on top.

That's what's interesting about these style things, I imagine something like RDR will win, but it won't be top of many people's lists, most people won't feel that passionately about it, but it's very good so it'll appear on a lot of lists.

The alternate list would certainly be the more interesting winner I think.

 

[Fredescu]

It would be interesting to have 2 separate GOTY polls. One for people who would like to create a list and one for people who would simply like to vote for a single GOTY.

Why would you have to do that? You can get all the data in one thread and then apply whatever scoring model you want, including tallying up the number of #1's out of that. There is absolutely no good reason to restrict the number of votes someone can have.

we should probably just have a mod-made poll for

Old Style
Last Year Style
One-Choice Style
This Year's Proposed Style

seems like the fairest way of doing it.

Like I said, you can apply all of those styles to the same set of data. The only case where you can is on voter assigned weighting, which I don't think anyone is in favour of keeping.

 

[Yeef]

Bah, I'm switching my vote to this. After all, we're picking the Game of the Year, not Games of the year.



But you can only vote for one, right?

Please read the thread more carefully!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=24919632&postcount=101

 

[Corto]

It's not actually about who wins GOTY. It's the exact opposite. If people have to pick one title, the list will probably have more variety. Those experiences that were fantastic will stick out more compared to those that were just played more. For example, that one Anmensia vote, now holds a lot more sway. It will still be flooded out by a bunch of HD Twin AAA titles, but it's not going be up against 10 lists, with 8 titles that just switch places. It allows for a lot more discussion over the titles to occur to rather than....Well these are the 10 I liked(and in many cases, the only 10 I may have played this year).

For example, a sneak peak at our top 20 would be. Mass Effect 2, RDR, Super Mario Galaxy 2, God of War III, Heavy Rain, GT5, Starcraft II, Halo Reach, Bayonetta, Bad Company 2, CODBlOPS, Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, and Fallout Vegas.

Finally, I'm not hard pressed at all to argue most Top 10's. It's pretty easy actually when you already know the bulk of them. :lol

I really doubt the bold. A single pick system will be more prone to perversions. If Timetokill still has last year data it would be useful to see what would it look like if only the highest scored titles meant something. The final list would be comprised of the high profile titles with some interesting/smaller/more unconventional picks totally wiped out.

edit: in the meanwhile timetokill already did what I was asking...

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Like I said, you can apply all of those styles to the same set of data. The only case where you can is on voter assigned weighting, which I don't think anyone is in favour of keeping.

In theory, yes, but I believe people will make their decisions differently if they know only one or two games will actually be on the list versus a full top ten.

 

[user_nat]

I will be providing those results already, there's no need for a second thread. Last year it was under the "Passion Award." Assuming everybody is putting their "one GOTY" at the top of their list, I compile a list of games receiving top votes. For example, here is last year's Top 20 (21, due to ties) based only on top choices:

As I said, I don't actually think we should do it. Separating the vote would be silly.

But what I meant is that you vote in one or the other. To see if people who would rather have a list differ in opinion to people who want to give just 1 game.

 

[Aquavelvaman]

I've always thought it was weird to list 5 or 10 games for a GOTY voting system. I prefer:

GOTY: 2 points
Runner up: 1 point

But I guess that's not as spreadsheet happy as GAF seems to like.

 

[timetokill]

I really doubt the bold. A single pick system will be more prone to perversions. If Timetokill still has last years data it would be useful to see what would it look like if only the highest scored titles meant something. The final list would be comprised of the high profile titles with some interesting/smaller/more unconventional picks totally wiped out.

Again, guys, last year I gave you the results for "one game only" voting by making a list purely out of the top game on each list.

This was it... I'll add the comparison to the "official entire list" ranking in bold to the left.

Actual -> Top Score Only ranking
01./01. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 390
03./02. Demon's Souls 92
04./03. Dragon Age: Origins 83
02./04. Batman: Arkham Asylum 77
06./05. New Super Mario Bros. Wii 54
08./06. Street Fighter IV 53
05./07. Assassin's Creed 2 46
10./08. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 20
11./09. Borderlands 18
13./10. Left 4 Dead 2 18
07./11. Killzone 2 17
16./12. Halo 3: ODST 14
20./13. Trials HD 11
09./14. Infamous 9
18./15. Forza Motorsport 3 9
26./16. Little King's Story 9
12./17. Flower 6
29./17. Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II 6
29./17. Wii Sports Resort 6
29./17. Machinarium 6
29./17. Bayonetta 6

 

[littleworm]

I think that the best system to use is this:


Game 1=5 Points
Game 2=4 Points
Game 3=3 Points
Game 4=2 Points
Game 5=1 Point

and if people dont want to do a full list they dont have to, their Game 1 will still win 5 points regardless if they list 1 game or 5. Also if its decided that 5 games is not enough and we want to go with 10 games just change the numbers to match acordingly. This way those who want to see a definive winner will get that, as well as allow those to see niche games honored, see that as well.

 

[Sinatar]

The old method is better, just list 10 (or 5 or whatever) games and they get points based on the rank. 5 gets you 5 points, 4 gets 4, 3 gets 3 and so forth. Why needlessly complicate things?

 

[Fredescu]

In theory, yes, but I believe people will make their decisions differently if they know only one or two games will actually be on the list versus a full top ten.

If that's the case, wouldn't the data be more organic if you took the first two of a top ten? If you're suspecting that people will game it for whatever reason. I'm not too sure why they'd be different.

 

[user_nat]

Again, guys, last year I gave you the results for "one game only" voting by making a list purely out of the top game on each list.

This was it... I'll add the comparison to the "official entire list" ranking in bold to the left.

Actual -> Top Score Only ranking
29./17. Bayonetta 6

Has a game ever charted 2 years in a row before?

 

[Ashes]

In theory, yes, but I believe people will make their decisions differently if they know only one or two games will actually be on the list versus a full top ten.

What if you had played two outstanding games of the year? what is this thing about awarding gold, silver and bronze prizes? :/

 

[Ashes]

I will be providing those results already, there's no need for a second thread. Last year it was under the "Passion Award." Assuming everybody is putting their "one GOTY" at the top of their list, I compile a list of games receiving top votes. For example, here is last year's Top 20 (21, due to ties) based only on top choices:

Last Year's Passion Award

01. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 390
02. Demon's Souls 92
03. Dragon Age: Origins 83
04. Batman: Arkham Asylum 77
05. New Super Mario Bros. Wii 54
06. Street Fighter IV 53
07. Assassin's Creed 2 46
08. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 20
09. Borderlands 18
10. Left 4 Dead 2 18
11. Killzone 2 17
12. Halo 3: ODST 14
13. Trials HD 11
14. Infamous 9
15. Forza Motorsport 3 9
16. Little King's Story 9
17. Flower 6
17. Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II 6
17. Wii Sports Resort 6
17. Machinarium 6
17. Bayonetta 6

Again, guys, last year I gave you the results for "one game only" voting by making a list purely out of the top game on each list.

This was it... I'll add the comparison to the "official entire list" ranking in bold to the left.

Actual -> Top Score Only ranking
01./01. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 390
03./02. Demon's Souls 92
04./03. Dragon Age: Origins 83
02./04. Batman: Arkham Asylum 77
06./05. New Super Mario Bros. Wii 54
08./06. Street Fighter IV 53
05./07. Assassin's Creed 2 46
10./08. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 20
11./09. Borderlands 18
13./10. Left 4 Dead 2 18
07./11. Killzone 2 17
16./12. Halo 3: ODST 14
20./13. Trials HD 11
09./14. Infamous 9
18./15. Forza Motorsport 3 9
26./16. Little King's Story 9
12./17. Flower 6
29./17. Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II 6
29./17. Wii Sports Resort 6
29./17. Machinarium 6
29./17. Bayonetta 6

Quoting for direct and easier comparison.

 

[The Faceless Master]

In theory, yes, but I believe people will make their decisions differently if they know only one or two games will actually be on the list versus a full top ten.

yep, exactly. when a hard choice like that comes up, the votes won't be the same.

 

[Anth0ny]

I haven't even played 10 games released this year :lol

I'd prefer a top 5, or even a top 2 tbh.

 

[Ashes]

yep, exactly. when a hard choice like that comes up, the votes won't be the same.

It's easier to glance down the list though... and there is no real ranking between games. second and third tier games. If the race becomes between Red dead and galaxy, I'd opt to vote for bayonetta perhaps, to represent that instead say of the other too. We've got to make the list as honest as possible, not as decisive as possible.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I mean, the change in votes probably wouldn't be all that substantial. I guess I'd just be interested in seeing how varied the list would be on a 'GOTY and Runner-Up only' list versus how varied it was by chopping off the tail end of the last year's data.

My only real motivation is giving each vote a fairly substantial amount of power, as opposed to the list form which I feel really only dilutes the pool and makes the end results, while probably similar, much less insightful.

I mean, in the case of a RE4-style landslide the data might be very simplistic, but at the same time I've never been a fan of pulling other awards out of the GOTY data pool. For example, awarding a game 'Shooter of the Year' based on someones votes for GOTY is off-the-mark, given that some might not have even voted for a shooter on their list, but strongly believe that SHOOTER X was the best shooter of the year, and so on.

That brings things around to the possibility of voting for separate categories in addition to GOTY, but that's a whole other can of worms.

I'd love to vote on things like:

Shooter of the Year
Most Exciting Presentation
Best OST
Multiplayer Mode of the Year
Best Use of Cooperative Gameplay
Most Interesting Narrative Implementation
etc

and then, with no console specific GOTY awards because those are stoopid,

GOTY
Runner-Up

 

[StuBurns]

I think Demon's Souls and Bayonetta will both rank this year too.