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[Deitus]

I have a question though. I often times see threads for games like The Order and Driveclub/Forza Horizon 2 derailed by people coming in and complain about it being filmic, or having quick time events (or being 30FPS in the case of the two racers). There's nothing any amount of complain will change since those things are just the way the devs have decided to make their games so my question is, can anything be done about that derailment?

Is it not right, in that case, to just say if you don't like it, don't buy it. We know exactly what the Order is offering, we know exactly what the devs are trying to do, so why are threads continually derailed by people coming in and complaining about core elements of the game that they dislike. It's no better than if I, as someone who dislikes MOBAs (for example), went into a Dota 2 thread and complained about it being a MOBA.

Similarly, complaining about 30 FPS in a game like Horizon 2 or DC serves no purpose since that won't change no matter what. So it's a very simple, don't like it don't buy it, no? Heck, the whole 30 vs. 60 FPS debate often time derails just about any game and it's annoying. Would it be possible to do anything about stuff like that. Like similar to the "No Port Begging" tag in the title of certain posts, couldn't a "no 30FPS whining" tag be made or something.

"If you don't like it, don't buy it" and "Don't shit up a thread about a game you don't care about with driveby criticisms" are two very different concepts.

"If you don't like it don't buy it" isn't necessarily bad in and of itself, but it's largely irrelevant in the contexts it is often used. You can choose to not buy a game, and still have a discussion about the things that it did wrong. Or you can choose to buy a game even if you dislike some aspects about it. But you shouldn't be discouraged from talking about something just because you don't like it. Very often when this expression is used, it is in the context of "If you don't like thing, just leave so we can talk about how much we like thing," which is exclusionary and it leads to echo chambers, so it's ultimately bad for discussion. Now obviously critical posters can devolve into trolling, but that's completely separate from issue at hand, and they obviously shouldn't be allowed to troll.

I've seen different moderators, numerous times warn members that comments along the line of "don't like it then don't buy it" are considered detrimental to a conversation and that moderators will regularly begin cracking down on those sorts of posts.

Granted though, this was a month or two ago and I can't actually find the thread where particular lip was given.

My above response applies to this post as well. The issue is not recommending people not buy things they don't like. For instance, if someone is getting dramatically upset about the business model of a game they were looking forward to, it's not a bad thing to recommend they not play a game that would cause them further emotional turmoil.

Where it becomes a problem is when it is used to shut down dissenting opinions.

 

[SparkTR]

It's easy to derail the thread, see the Civ:Beyond Earth announcement thread. the first few pages were all port begging.

 

[Dragonborn]

"If you don't like it, don't buy it" and "Don't shit up a thread about a game you don't care about with driveby criticisms" are two very different concepts.

"If you don't like it don't buy it" isn't necessarily bad in and of itself, but it's largely irrelevant in the contexts it is often used. You can choose to not buy a game, and still have a discussion about the things that it did wrong. Or you can choose to buy a game even if you dislike some aspects about it. But you shouldn't be discouraged from talking about something just because you don't like it. Very often when this expression is used, it is in the context of "If you don't like thing, just leave so we can talk about how much we like thing," which is exclusionary and it leads to echo chambers, so it's ultimately bad for discussion. Now obviously critical posters can devolve into trolling, but that's completely separate from issue at hand, and they obviously shouldn't be allowed to troll.



My above response applies to this post as well. The issue is not recommending people not buy things they don't like. For instance, if someone is getting dramatically upset about the business model of a game they were looking forward to, it's not a bad thing to recommend they not play a game that would cause them further emotional turmoil.

Where it becomes a problem is when it is used to shut down dissenting opinions.

I get that, and it's fine, but so many threads are derailed by the whole 30 vs. 60 debate. And I mean, no amount of whining or complaining is going to change that so coming in and starting a debate on the issue is irrelevant. For the Order, so many people keep going into threads and complaining about the QTEs or about it's "filmic" approach, yet we've already known that it's exactly what the game is aiming for, so no amount of complaints will change that.

It's fine if you want to complain about stuff that can be changed (like maybe complaining about the shooting mechanics, or talking about how they could improve the aiming or whatever), but I just feel like complaining about the game's core concepts is, weird.

I don't know, I'm not saying it should happen, just asking if such a thing could be done to stop the constant derailment in those threads. The 30 vs. 60 debate has gotten old.

 

[KJRS_1993]

My above response applies to this post as well. The issue is not recommending people not buy things they don't like. For instance, if someone is getting dramatically upset about the business model of a game they were looking forward to, it's not a bad thing to recommend they not play a game that would cause them further emotional turmoil.

Where it becomes a problem is when it is used to shut down dissenting opinions.

I'm cool with people having different opinions, and I enjoy the opportunity to talk about pros, cons and negatives about anything, whether that's price plan models or certain game mechanics or game breaking bugs. And I definitely agree that criticism should be welcomed and we shouldn't have an echo chamber.

What irks me though is the thick blanket of whinging every time a publishers name is mentioned, from people who aren't interested in the game, don't want it and don't even particularly want to discuss it in any detail past their own "Fuck EA everything", with no additional thoughts, comments or explanations.
The only response to that is to metaphorically shrug and tell them if they don't like it, don't buy it. Whinging about it everytime the name of a company is mentioned on NeoGAF is tiresome to read. I just dislike how that's considered perfectly fine, when it's just as derailing as anything else.

 

[abstract alien]

That's a lot of people banned for a game I don't remember getting that great reviews (screen shots of the game sure looked pretty though)

I received it as a present and thought it was awful. What a waste of a port beg that must have been lol

 

[scoobidoo112]

I understand the derailment factor of it
But can't it also be seen as a compliment like
'wow, wish X was on my system, you're lucky'
Because it's impressive?

Am I the only one who thinks this post is being twisted into something it isn't?

That just sounds like an elaborate way around port begging...

yeah

it sounds like "This game looks great on console X, it'd play and look better on my console Y"

Either that or "I want to play this game, but I refuse to buy that console, so I want them to put it on my console". It's still port begging.

If you want to do the whole "I'm jealous" thing, you can just say "now I wish I had a [console name]". That wouldn't rile anyone up or derail the thread, and it conveys the idea that you think a game is good even if you can't play it right now.

I would actually like to hear a mod speak his/her mind on this precise example.

Is "wow, wish X was on my system, you're lucky" considered port-begging like the above posters are insinuating or is it considered okay to complement people with different platforms on games you yourself would like to play?

So, is there a difference between "Fuck this shit, I want this game on MY platform" and "wow, wish X was on my system, you're lucky" or are both bannable offenses?

I don't partake in port-begging myself but I would like to know more about this, just so I can prevent myself from making a mistake in the future...

 

[Octavia]

Port begging never bothered me, even the derails. At least it consists of discussion, even if it isn't always on topic.

Someone presenting a decent argument and then getting "Dat THIRST" and "Dat SALT" as a reply bothers me, because it's exactly a replica of "you mad" and "you jelly" but for some reason allowed because it uses different words than those. It's like skirting a swear filter by writing "Sh!t"

How that's tolerated is bizarre to me and while it doesn't derail, it effectively shuts down discussion. May as well just let people say STFU and be done with it, different means, same end.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

It's easy to derail the thread, see the Civ:Beyond Earth announcement thread. the first few pages were all port begging.

It's legitimate to have a discussion on why civ could or could not work on a console. That's not port begging.

 

[Deitus]

I get that, and it's fine, but so many threads are derailed by the whole 30 vs. 60 debate. And I mean, no amount of whining or complaining is going to change that so coming in and starting a debate on the issue is irrelevant. For the Order, so many people keep going into threads and complaining about the QTEs or about it's "filmic" approach, yet we've already known that it's exactly what the game is aiming for, so no amount of complaints will change that.

It's fine if you want to complain about stuff that can be changed (like maybe complaining about the shooting mechanics, or talking about how they could improve the aiming or whatever), but I just feel like complaining about the game's core concepts is, weird.

I don't know, I'm not saying it should happen, just asking if such a thing could be done to stop the constant derailment in those threads. The 30 vs. 60 debate has gotten old.

I know what you mean about The Order threads. I'm not even interested in the game for probably a lot of the reasons that the people who shit up the threads aren't, but the drive by posts are obnoxious. And yeah, with something that is core to the design like that, it doesn't make a lot of sense to continue to complain about it.

As for the 60 vs 30 fps debates, as tired as they are, they have their place. It illustrates a difference in philosophy between certain game designers and certain gamers. Some people hold the belief that a solid framerate is more important than resolution or other graphical improvements, while developers keep making games that run at poor framerates. It's not a discussion that should go away, because if there is a significant audience out there that values framerates so highly, developers should know people are discussing it. It just doesn't need to monopolize discussion about every single game.

I'm cool with people having different opinions, and I enjoy the opportunity to talk about pros, cons and negatives about anything, whether that's price plan models or certain game mechanics or game breaking bugs. And I definitely agree that criticism should be welcomed and we shouldn't have an echo chamber.

What irks me though is the thick blanket of whinging every time a publishers name is mentioned, from people who aren't interested in the game, don't want it and don't even particularly want to discuss it in any detail past their own "Fuck EA everything", with no additional thoughts, comments or explanations.
The only response to that is to metaphorically shrug and tell them if they don't like it, don't buy it. Whinging about it everytime the name of a company is mentioned on NeoGAF is tiresome to read. I just dislike how that's considered perfectly fine, when it's just as derailing as anything else.

I understand where you are coming from.

However, the response to those people should be "This is not the thread to discuss your hatred of EA. If you don't want to talk about this game, then you should go elsewhere." Involve a mod as you see fit. The "don't like it don't buy it" line doesn't actually work at keeping on topic, it just starts an argument over who is allowed to post in a thread and whether negative comments are allowed.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

It's legitimate to have a discussion on why civ could or could not work on a console. That's not port begging.

But it wasn't a thread on that subject. It was a thread on the announcement of a game that should have focused on the details and prospects presented through that announcement.

Yes, the guy who started that derailment was being a PC elitist and that had little to do with port begging and more on chastisement in having an exclusionary attitude. So the part you're responding to and speaking of the legitimacy of I would agree is acceptable.

However, there was blatant port begging later.

Oddly enough, the port begging was really only a few pages...like from page 8 to page 10. And a lot of it was arguing over what is port begging and if it should be allowed.

Which is why that stuff shouldn't be in those threads.

 

[truly101]

I'm guessing its an easy thread derail, and to owners of the system of choice who want to talk about the game, they don't want to be told about how their system has no games or whatever, with the exception of the one the port beggar wants ported.

With that said, the owners of the more niche system are sometimes a bit clique-ish and you can feel a bit unwelcome. I personally cannot stand the new PSN network thread since they merged everything. Its essentially the PS Vita owners thread. I have to wade through pages of stuff I don't give a crap about just to see whats coming out on PS3 or to see if anyone has any impressions on the games in question. I think Vita owners need a place to congregate and I don't know why they can't have their own thread...but I miss the old PSN thread. Direct and to the point.

I wanna port the PSN vita thread to the PS3 I guess.

 

[elektrixx]

If everyone bought iPhones instead of trying to be modern hippies with their Androids there wouldn't be so much port begging. *Game releases on iOS* "Murr when's the Android version coming?!" How about when are YOU getting the phone that people care about?

PORT YOURSELF.