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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay

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My new game Stage Presence, published by tinyBuild, which I've posted loads about in here is FINALLY coming out on Steam next Tuesday - Feb 28th! For those that don't know, it's a Comedy / Horror / Karaoke game (with optional VR bits if that's your jam).

I can't describe how ludicrously excited I am to finally release the damn thing! Cheers to everyone who's said nice things about it in here over the years!

Congrats!
 
My new game Stage Presence, published by tinyBuild, which I've posted loads about in here is FINALLY coming out on Steam next Tuesday - Feb 28th! For those that don't know, it's a Comedy / Horror / Karaoke game (with optional VR bits if that's your jam).

I can't describe how ludicrously excited I am to finally release the damn thing! Cheers to everyone who's said nice things about it in here over the years!


Been looking forward to this one! I wish I had a VR headset, I'd love to really feel the crowd reaction when I flip them all off.
 

missile

Member
I've found something cool, I think. An interesting way to control the specular
and diffuse energy just via the index of refraction (IOR) for single layered
materials simulating a, well, layered one.

After considering the microfacet model (PBR) for awhile I came to a plausible
conclusion that the diffuse reflection term needs a Fresnel term as well. It
changes the whole material thing and makes it possible to control the specular
and diffuse reflectivity just via the index of refraction.

So for example, if the surface becomes more metallic, then the diffuse
component drops accordingly, likewise at gazing, all depending on the IOR. In
my implementation I do control metallness via IOR, too. And the same IOR also
controls the specular reflection like in standard PBR (yet using a simpler
IOR there) via the Fresnel relationship. So now in my implementation the same
IOR also controls the energy available for diffuse reflection. Usually you
would have to set it by hand, i.e. via guesswork by fiddling with the diffuse
coefficient each time.

I did a couple of tests. The results look promising. I can reproduce the
standard results as if nothing had happend, yet with my method I can produce
sound materials where the diffuse and specular reflection is couple via IOR
influencing each other. That means, I can tinker around with the IOR and the
reflection matches each time, as it seems. Sure, that's not for the artist
among us, but it's cool for building some cool materials. I think this becomes
important for metallic enriched surfaces where you need to know how the
energy separates on the surface to get the rendering right. That is to say,
how much diffuse energy is available if the surface is metallic but with a
very low absorption coefficient such that the diffuse layer still shines
through, or, how much needs the diffuse component be lowered when looking at a
polished object towards gazing?

Here is a hires image showing the effect;

oe2fAnf.png


The standard coefficients for the specular and diffuse component are set to 1
in here. These components are now fully IOR controlled via the Fresnel
relationship. The yellow color indicates how much the surface reflects light.
(I need to implement reflection mapping making the result look much more
stunning, but I will save that for later because for my stylized renderer
I'm especially interested in such sort of colorings.) Anyhow. To ease the
demonstration I used a simplified IOR (no metal) of refractive power 3.5 for
this example. That means, the light refracts at 3.5 into and reflects off from
the polished surface of the sphere with the Fresnel relationship determining the
split in energy. The part that goes into the surface is the part the diffuse
component (basically, the color) gets modulated/attenuated with to keep the
whole energy balanced producing that diffuse look. The highlight is also worth
considering. Despite the surface has a polished finish, the highlight is quite
dim. And it needs to be that way. Away from gazing, and for the given IOR,
most of the light goes into the surface leaving only a small amount of light
to reflect off. But with the highlight towards gazing it will get brighter. It
also gets brighter everywhere if the surface gains some metallness. It goes
away if the IOR is 1.0 (fully diffuse), but comes back if the metallness > 0
even with the IOR at 1.0. Etc.

Don't know if this all sounds plausible to someone in here, and I don't know
how much I do violate other things by adding a Fresnel term to the diffuse
part (I need to compute the energy surface and see how it behaves), but it
works and looks quite well and will give me some cool ways to build and to
control the reflectivity of some stylized materials I want to create for my
game. So I'm going to play around with it some more, finding possible flaws,
etc., but also trying some stuff like making transitions from metal to a
diffuse etc., or check how the highlights behave when adjusting the IOR in
multiple ways.
 

missile

Member
hah ! well I hope people learned something :p

I actually touched on that in the first blog, but it kinda came up as a "joke" on the first developper meeting for french switzerland. We were somehow discussing how we would make our own "typical swiss" game. Most ideas revolved around the cliches like edelweisses, cows, mountains etc...but I actually had that interest in celtic mythology and thought "Well we actually don't know much about the old gaulish tribes" and it stuck
Interesting. Yeah, I've learned something! :)

.. I'd love to really feel the crowd reaction when I flip them all off.
Would be cool. Atmosphere seem to be stunning!
Good job, Thom Yorke's Wobbly Eye!
 

Dusk Golem

A 21st Century Rockefeller
As I said a few pages ago, going to work to try to post more here and be less shy. Starting work on another RPG Maker Horror project, as I do.

I'm not the best spriter in the universe, but have been slowly improving. Here's something I'm working on named Noiselss Signal after 2-3 days of development.

(gif is choppy, game runs at 60fps... Any tips for software for better gifs appreciated.)

43baf5724ef5e53d8c008da524eb8c65.gif


Character sprite likely will be redone and going to try to add different poses for him. Still miffling around with the fog and noise of this scene.

Still so much work to do, and much more about this scene to work on, but I think it's definitely coming along for 2-3 days of development.
 
As I said a few pages ago, going to work to try to post more here and be less shy. Starting work on another RPG Maker Horror project, as I do.

I'm not the best spriter in the universe, but have been slowly improving. Here's something I'm working on named Noiselss Signal after 2-3 days of development.

(gif is choppy, game runs at 60fps... Any tips for software for better gifs appreciated.)

43baf5724ef5e53d8c008da524eb8c65.gif


Character sprite likely will be redone and going to try to add different poses for him. Still miffling around with the fog and noise of this scene.

Still so much work to do, and much more about this scene to work on, but I think it's definitely coming along for 2-3 days of development.

Boooooo get that rpg maker filth out of here booooooo ;)

/s I'm glad to see you posting in here, Dusk Golem!! :D Very cool.
 

missile

Member
I'm always in for a couple of other ideas for make things look cool/different
for my stylized rendering further down the road.

One of such things is polarized light/filters I'm going to try. What's
interesting about polarized light is that the reflection behaves somewhat
differently esp. for parallel polarized light.

It's my idea to use polarized light to give the reflections some more
"contrast" making them look more edgy.

Here is my a first test rendering with the sphere representing a polarization
filter, filtering out the orthogonal components of light reflecting only the
parallel one. The surface finish has an IOR of 2.5 (it's a dielectricum);

l7wUriL.png


In general, the reflection of light at a dielectric interface (like glass),
when being illuminated with parallel polarized light, becomes zero at a
specific angle of incident. At that angle no light will be reflected (you can
see through). Hence, all the light enters the dielectricum. This angle is
known as the Brewster angle (or polarization angle) and can easily be
computed. For my example this angle is ~68 degrees (arctan(2.5)).

Since the sphere here acts as a polarization filter, filtering out the
orthogonal component, the reflected light is parallel polarized with the
reflection behaving accordingly. As you can see, towards gazing there is a
region where the red sphere can be fully seen. I've given the ground plane the
same material properties. As you can see there is a region on the ground plane
where the reflection (the yellow tint) fully disappears. You would't believe,
but any highlight in that region will also disappear no matter how bright it
is. Same holds for the sphere.

I've added two new parameters for the materials saying by how much each
polarization component of light is filtered out at the surface.

Would be cool to track the reflected polarized light through the scene but
that is computationally somewhat demanding (will see). That way it would be
possible to compute multiple reflections with polarized light coming from
other surfaces leading to a very specific reflection and illumination of the
scene. This sort of reflection is often seen/felt in cities full of shiny
skyscrapers making all the reflections feel somewhat artificial but very
unique to the scene.

What's interesting to note is that metals don't have this property, they
always reflect light, but you can bring them close.


Edit:
The sphere filtering out the parallel component leaving only the orthogonal
one (always > 0);

M1rIFuE.png


Hence, lot's of reflection!

When comparing the two images it is seen that parallel polarization leads to
more contrasty reflections, making the scene look more edgy. And that's
exactly the goal of mine.
 

Situacao

Member
Hey guys, do you know any tutorials/articles/books that I could read to learn a bit about post-processing effects?

It could be Unity, Unreal or just general knowledge about how these effects effectively (no pun intended) work. You know, all the maths and stuff!

Thanks in advance!
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
How do you deal with the camera being inside an object in a 3D game? I am currently struggling to find the right way of dealing with this (my game has a completely free camera, so "avoid that the camera gets into an object" is not an option):
- have everything double-faced - this can lead to some nasty looking graphics as soon as something is half transparent (which I use as an effect on objects that would otherwise obscure the view on the main character)
- have the object just disappear visually (standard in Unity) - looks the best but can be a bit confusing
- have the object disappear, but have a screen-wide effect that symbolises the camera being in an object itself

Which one would you prefer / which one do you choose in your projects?
 

Dascu

Member
How do you deal with the camera being inside an object in a 3D game? I am currently struggling to find the right way of dealing with this (my game has a completely free camera, so "avoid that the camera gets into an object" is not an option):
- have everything double-faced - this can lead to some nasty looking graphics as soon as something is half transparent (which I use as an effect on objects that would otherwise obscure the view on the main character)
- have the object just disappear visually (standard in Unity) - looks the best but can be a bit confusing
- have the object disappear, but have a screen-wide effect that symbolises the camera being in an object itself

Which one would you prefer / which one do you choose in your projects?

I'm guessing the camera is circling around a player character? Do a Linecast from player to the camera and basically re-position the camera closer towards him (and outside the obstructing object).
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I'm guessing the camera is circling around a player character? Do a Linecast from player to the camera and basically re-position the camera closer towards him (and outside the obstructing object).

This is what I want to prevent, because it means that the camera may change its position without the player instructing this. While visually this would probably be the most pleasing solution, in a jump it could be quite irritating, if the camera begins to zoom in or rotate. Just zooming may not be sufficient to prevent this in all cases, because the user may have positioned the camera in a way that the main character is moving towards the camera and towards an object, so when the character reaches said object, at the latest, zooming would not cut it anymore.
 

Five

Banned
There might be a good way to put a collider on the camera so that it can't run into objects. This would work differently than the line check because it won't snap close when inside something, just get stopped or pushed away by obstacles.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
There might be a good way to put a collider on the camera so that it can't run into objects. This would work differently than the line check because it won't snap close when inside something, just get stopped or pushed away by obstacles.

Yes, you are right, this is possible. Actually, for the implementation of inside meshes, I use my collision detection. But the problem with a camera that refuses to enter geometry is that it takes away control from the player and can lead to nasty situations where the camera cannot follow properly, see Super Mario Sunshine, which has a very free camera, that refuses to enter objects. This works nice in many situations, but is a horror in some situations (e.g. the backside of the ferris wheel).
 

Five

Banned
Yes, you are right, this is possible. Actually, for the implementation of inside meshes, I use my collision detection. But the problem with a camera that refuses to enter geometry is that it takes away control from the player and can lead to nasty situations where the camera cannot follow properly, see Super Mario Sunshine, which has a very free camera, that refuses to enter objects. This works nice in many situations, but is a horror in some situations (e.g. the backside of the ferris wheel).

In situations like that you might have to let it break the constraints and travel inside objects. There's not going to be a singular ruleset that looks the best in 100% of situations.
 
Just another weekly update, but a pretty important one. After the Early Access release of our game, there's been feedback about our art style and / or our lighting. After a discussion with the team and some ironing out of the models and textures, we've gotten to a good point with the style now. Probably still have some tweaks to make, so looking for feedback on how people feel about these.

Full disclosure however, the 'new' image has a bit of bias on it since I've added more models, but it's more about the overall style change than anything.

Old:
koUZUuy.jpg


New:
ANUVEJq.jpg

The main change was moving away from just picking any colors I wanted and using gradients to show off detail, and using a dedicated color pallet and pulling back on the overall saturation. There was also a shader change which allows us to use an ambient light as well, which I feel helps a lot. And finally, there are a few camera effects in the new shot that aren't in the old.
 

missile

Member
Just another weekly update, but a pretty important one. After the Early Access release of our game, there's been feedback about our art style ...
I'm wondering, what was that feedback about (considering the style)?


Implemented environment reflection. It shows the polarization much better;

VvGXHCt.png

without reflection

Now the surface finish is a dielectricum of IOR 1.5 (glassy). The reflections
are computed with the Fresnel relationship with the diffuse component adjusted
to balance the energy as described earlier.

q1YikDp.png

standard, no polarization

S9fqGhi.png

parallel polarized reflection

GOfPk0E.png

orthogonal polarized reflection


Really like the parallel one! :)
 
I'm wondering, what was that feedback about (considering the style)?

First I have to preface this answer with an explanation that the images we posted on social media were incorrect. Long story short, the lighting and camera effects got messed up, which really effected how people responded. That being said, I feel how people responded still gave us a good idea where to improve. For Reference;

What was posted, incorrect:
16903271_1800522050273942_4714760338098049872_o.jpg


What should of been posted, correct:
ANUVEJq.jpg

When it came to feedback, most people didn't like the washed out look and wanted more contrast in the scene, which came from using the incorrect lighting. In the older screenshot, there's also a lot more bright saturated colors, which a lot of people like. So overall, we weren't getting the reaction we were hoping for, but I think that's because we got the lighting and camera effects wrong when sending out the image over social media. Facebook and Twitter compression probably didn't help either. That being said, it still gave us a good idea where to improve. It's also a good lesson to make sure you have your lighting and camera settings right before taking screenshots to share too, haha.

Here's another minor update where I put birds back into the scene, trying to work in more areas of color which people are missing from the old style.

 

Pehesse

Member
Finally got simultaneous combat working!

WelcomePossibleAtlanticblackgoby.gif


This should allow for much more interesting combat scenarios than simple 1 on 1s all the time - it's more fun to whack at plenty of foes at once :-D
 
Man I really enjoy working on the look/art aspect of game dev. The problem I have is as I get better with blender and asset creation the older parts of my game look crappy in comparison.

This is the most recent room that I've done. It's small warehouse that houses autonomous drones that scavenge from downed space craft.

Aypgb1Q.png


I really like the look of this. The idea is that whilst beginning parts of the game are almost monochrome, later areas get a lot more crazy and colourful.

And here's a ravine section a little later.

CRnnxQI.png


I'm not sure about the lasers in the current state the don't have any clear purpose other than being obvious obstacles. I'll most likely replace them with something that would make sense in the world at that point. And in general this area needs a lot more work to get it looking as good as the first screenshot.

The shots look a little noisy in screenshots looks a lot better in motion.
 

Pehesse

Member
NicePlumpJenny.gif


Halfffwayyyy throughhhh (the acrobat's moves, so only 25% of the cleanup way through, and 1/8 of the total way through - maths are the only thing keeping me sane right now)
(also, "NicePlumpJenny")
 

missile

Member
First I ...
I'm wondering because I love the old one much more. It has a much better
clearity/separation (color contrast) and the selection of colors somehow fit
the game quite well. The new one looks washed out, is of low contrast, and has
this greenish-braun unfirom look to it. I can't see why this new one should
look better even with improved lighting, camera whatever. But then everyone
has a different taste.


... I really like the look of this. The idea is that whilst beginning parts of the game are almost monochrome, later areas get a lot more crazy and colourful. ...
Ha, have a similar idea for a game of mine in having a level where you start
at low-res graphics (like just a few colors with dithering etc.) and with the
graphics improve while you make progress, getting faster etc.. I think that's
cool because the player can be enticed that way wanting to see more and more
of the level(s), i.e. how the look may changes etc.. The player may even see
the improved look as sort of an accomplishment because the new level shines a
lil brighter wherever. Btw; Looks cool with the lasers lighting up the level.


... Halfffwayyyy throughhhh (the acrobat's moves, so only 25% of the cleanup way through, and 1/8 of the total way through - maths are the only thing keeping me sane right now)
(also, "NicePlumpJenny")
So nice. That's a lot of work doing such animations, right?
 

DemonNite

Member
I stopped working in the dungeon areas and finally had to motivation to get working on the outdoor HUB world that connects everything. Wanted to try and get the tone and atmosphere right before I fill it out with everything else.

57B8uLTh.jpg


These Crypt entrances will be the gateway to each dungeon level with each having their own inscriptions that tell the player the rules of the dungeon that they are about to enter. Break those rules and all hell will break lose and so on.

I think I'm happy with the look and feel of this so will be putting more work in it and creating the pathways that link them all.
 

Pazu

Member
Development on Chiaro and the Elixir of Life for HTC Vive continues! A couple of y'all messaged me about trying a demo late last year -- we're working hard to get a vertical slice together and hoping to get it out by the end of March. If you haven't messaged me and have a Vive/want to try, please do, we'd love some feedback!

Chiaro's a character-driven adventure game inspired by the kind of enchantment and excitement found in Legend of Zelda. We don't have combat, but we do have puzzles to solve with unique items that take advantage of the compelling properties of roomscale VR. And we've got characters that bring the story to life -- alive machines, singing pigs, and steam-powered penguins.

Here's Scoria, voiced by Caiti Ward (Velvet Scarlatina in RWBY). She's looking for Elixir...


0lcUkt2.png
 

Blizzard

Banned
I finally downloaded Unreal Engine 4.15 and built it from source. I know some other engines have made source available as well.

I know simple games don't need source access, but there's one thing I really love about having the source available: When something is annoying in the editor, I can fix it and rebuild it. It's awesome.
 

_Rob_

Member
*snip*

Halfffwayyyy throughhhh (the acrobat's moves, so only 25% of the cleanup way through, and 1/8 of the total way through - maths are the only thing keeping me sane right now)
(also, "NicePlumpJenny")


Every time you post, I'm inspired to get back to my own animation! I'm especially impressed with the secondary animation in her hair and clothing.
 

Pehesse

Member
Every time you post, I'm inspired to get back to my own animation! I'm especially impressed with the secondary animation in her hair and clothing.

Man, thanks a lot. I know I tend to let loose in the thread a bit too much but I can't really express how much hearing that means. I regularly go through phases where I wonder why I even bother attempting to gamedev in the first place, but knowing my stuff at least helps others get their own out there helps more than you know. So thanks!

(and yeah, having a lot of fun with that secondary animation - basically, the whole character design was there to have as much of this as possible: the hair, the cape, the necklace, the ankle straps... hopefully in the end it looks as dynamic as I hope it will, and helps make moving the character fun in and of itself!)
 

missile

Member
OOqM3S1.png


Is this the base reflection for copper for the Unreal Engine? Can someone
render me a copper sphere in either Unity and/or Unreal and say what
reflection color was used (and possible the scale/range)? For Unreal, I think,
the reflectance for metals is 70-100% which is scaled to 235-255 in sRGB,
right? And, does anyone know which Fresnel approximation is used (Schlick?) to
compute the amount reflection depending on incident angle?
 

LordRaptor

Member
OOqM3S1.png


Is this the base reflection for copper for the Unreal Engine? Can someone
render me a copper sphere in either Unity and/or Unreal and say what
reflection color was used (and possible the scale/range)? For Unreal, I think,
the reflectance for metals is 70-100% which is scaled to 235-255 in sRGB,
right? And, does anyone know which Fresnel approximation is used (Schlick?) to
compute the amount reflection depending on incident angle?

I'm not familiar with how Unreal handles PBR authoring, but Unity has a choice between a metal / rough workflow or a spec / gloss workflow, and basically everyone uses DONTNODs material charts for colour values
https://seblagarde.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/dontnodgraphicchartforblinnmicrofacet_lowres2.png
https://seblagarde.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/dontnodgraphicchartforunrealengine4.png

Substance designers preset for Copper in Metal/Rough is
Base colour: R:250 G:208 B:192 / H:16 S:59 V:250
Roughness: R:64 G:64 B:64 / H:0 S:0 V:64
if that's any help - I believe these are prerecorded values as they're used across multiple engines
 
OOqM3S1.png


Is this the base reflection for copper for the Unreal Engine? Can someone
render me a copper sphere in either Unity and/or Unreal and say what
reflection color was used (and possible the scale/range)? For Unreal, I think,
the reflectance for metals is 70-100% which is scaled to 235-255 in sRGB,
right? And, does anyone know which Fresnel approximation is used (Schlick?) to
compute the amount reflection depending on incident angle?
Copper in Unreal Engine is

RGB 0.955, 0.637, 0.538
HEX (srgb) FAD1C2FF
HEX (linear) F4A389FF
You may also be interested in this. Notes. Slides.
 

embalm

Member
Nothing to show, I just want to talk about my project.

My retro JRPG and Souls hybrid is coming along nicely. I've got most of my core design decisions made and my prototype is coming along quickly.

Character Creation is complete. You pick some basic information and then a dialog occurs where your background, character traits, and starting equipment are set.

Dialog Modals are complete. I have a fully data driven Dialog engine. It can branch, repeat, checks stats, and call functions. It should be everything I need for an RPG with only a few deep characters.

I finished Saving and Loading games. Along with saving Npc and chest states based on your current save ID. So you can leave and come back to the game whenever you want.

Inventory is all finished. You can pick up items from chests. They are added to your inventory which is a drag and drop UI. You can swap items, you can equip items, you can position them, and it is all saved correctly.

My character sheet works, but isn't finished. I correctly display all the correct numbers and my calculations all work. It will need updated once I add in the level up mechanics.

Overworld exploration is finished. Player movement and player interaction is all working. You can transition scenes or warp to new backdrops and I added a decent fade effect to make it less jarring. I'll need to add more maps, but the concept has proved out.

Companions following the player is complete. I wanted a way to show the characters in the party so made a congo line of sorts for your current party. Getting it to work perfectly wasn't as easy as I thought, but it looks great.

Next up is party Management. Adding and removing characters to the party and setting their formation for battle.

Once those pieces are in place I'll be working on Combat. Lots of interesting mechanics planned out, so it should be a lot of fun to program.

If you guys want I'll add some shabby screen shots later.
 

_Rob_

Member
Going to release my game this thursday.
Time to re-do the screens and the video. Stuff that makes zero fun capturing in VR :(

Can you not record it in 3D for display on a VR device (or for YouTube's 3D option)? I'd imagine most of your customers would already own a headset.
 

MimiMe

Member
Can you not record it in 3D for display on a VR device (or for YouTube's 3D option)? I'd imagine most of your customers would already own a headset.

Hm, I have no Idea how I to do that and I am afraid my PC won't handle the game session plus recording.
Going to read into it but I doubt there is an (realizable) solution.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Just a heads-up, Unity is holding a pretty wide-spread sale on the "most wished for" items on the asset store:

https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/sale

Looks like my wallet is going to explode soon.

I've always thought if I was going to buy something from the Unity store it would be one of the controller addons, because holy shit is input manager a chore to use, but 25% off isn't a big enough draw (and I'm not particularly doing anything that needs a controller)
 
I've always thought if I was going to buy something from the Unity store it would be one of the controller addons, because holy shit is input manager a chore to use, but 25% off isn't a big enough draw (and I'm not particularly doing anything that needs a controller)

If you're talking about Rewired, it's easily worth double the sale price (and it doesn't go on sale that often). I highly recommend it.
 

LordRaptor

Member
If you're talking about Rewired, it's easily worth double the sale price (and it doesn't go on sale that often). I highly recommend it.

Hmmm.
It seems like the sort of thing worth getting because chances are more likely than not it will come in useful in future... even if I have no immediate needs for it :/

e:
Oh, it has a free trial - that would probably be useful to check out lol
 
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