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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay

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missile

Member
Never thought I could achieve it without accumulation, but with software
rendering you can bend everything to your liking. xD Here it is;

pixelized motion blur

a1Hab9j.gif


To make this work I just had to revamp the entire rendering engine which is
now based on an entirely different principle. So everything changed a lot and
I don't know if my pixelized defocusing blur still works under these new
conditions. Over the next days I will try to merge the two effects and see
if they can work together on the same scene.
 

Minamu

Member
Never thought I could achieve it without accumulation, but with software
rendering you can bend everything to your liking. xD Here it is;

To make this work I just had to revamp the entire rendering engine which is
now based on an entirely different principle. So everything changed a lot and
I don't know if my pixelized defocusing blur still works under these new
conditions. Over the next days I will try to merge the two effects and see
if they can work together on the same scene.
What is your end game with these effects you post? :D It's not much you show us but it triggers the imagination to say the least. I have no idea what direction to take my imagination in though :)
 

DemonNite

Member
Never thought I could achieve it without accumulation, but with software
rendering you can bend everything to your liking. xD Here it is;

pixelized motion blur

a1Hab9j.gif


To make this work I just had to revamp the entire rendering engine which is
now based on an entirely different principle. So everything changed a lot and
I don't know if my pixelized defocusing blur still works under these new
conditions. Over the next days I will try to merge the two effects and see
if they can work together on the same scene.

been waiting to see this :D awesome stuff dude
 
So I am a total scrub on networking. So with making a game like Twinkle Star Sprites, which is like Tetris Attack in shmup form, basically you kill enemies on your side of the screen and it does things to your opponent side like send over enemies or an attack. Now with my game, it is pretty different, since it is more of a twinstick shooter, but I am confused at what I should be communicating.

Obviously I am sending over what the opponent is doing, so it will reflect on their side of screen to the player. But what I'm wondering is how I would be going about updating the game to reflect everything else, as in the enemies that are tracking the opponent, since there are generally a lot of things that are tracking the position of the controlled characters.

I was thinking of just sending over the commands and basically emulating what they are doing client-side, but with lag and delay, it might not truly reflect the state of what is going on, ex. in the emulation the opponent is hit by the enemy, but on their side they actually dodged it. On the other hand, I can be constantly updating every single object from the opponents side of the screen continuously, but that would be like sending too much information, since generally you try to send only what you need.

Though I guess a 3rd method which would be potentially visually inaccurate is basically doing the 1st way, just sending over the inputs and emulating on the player's client, and even though things look like they are getting hit and stuff, only send over when things are destroyed and if the player got hit enough to be in a game over state to end the round. If the mumbo jumbo I posted seems scattered brain, I think I can clarify better haha.
 

elyetis

Member
So I am a total scrub on networking. So with making a game like Twinkle Star Sprites, which is like Tetris Attack in shmup form, basically you kill enemies on your side of the screen and it does things to your opponent side like send over enemies or an attack. Now with my game, it is pretty different, since it is more of a twinstick shooter, but I am confused at what I should be communicating.

Obviously I am sending over what the opponent is doing, so it will reflect on their side of screen to the player. But what I'm wondering is how I would be going about updating the game to reflect everything else, as in the enemies that are tracking the opponent, since there are generally a lot of things that are tracking the position of the controlled characters.

I was thinking of just sending over the commands and basically emulating what they are doing client-side, but with lag and delay, it might not truly reflect the state of what is going on, ex. in the emulation the opponent is hit by the enemy, but on their side they actually dodged it. On the other hand, I can be constantly updating every single object from the opponents side of the screen continuously, but that would be like sending too much information, since generally you try to send only what you need.

Though I guess a 3rd method which would be potentially visually inaccurate is basically doing the 1st way, just sending over the inputs and emulating on the player's client, and even though things look like they are getting hit and stuff, only send over when things are destroyed and if the player got hit enough to be in a game over state to end the round. If the mumbo jumbo I posted seems scattered brain, I think I can clarify better haha.
I only ever did one game and there was far less things happening on the screen than in a twinstick shooter ( it was a really simple game ), but what worked for me was some kind of middle ground between the two.

Sending the strict minimum of information and let the client guess/predict what is happening from it, but not allowing it to do somethings like kill a character, because I was also sending more information so that the client could re sync itself with the host ( it's been years, I can't remember if I did that at given time interval or if it was doing it as often as possible, I should recheck that code someday ) so things never really could become visibly different for each player.
 

shaowebb

Member
Edit: I should probably dial back on the trails in the next gif.

swarm.gif

DO NOT DIAL BACK A THING.
Seriously. That is visually grabbing the shit out of my imagination and hugging it. Keep it. The thrill of so much visual excitement during action moments brightening your world is fantastic. Will definitely draw folks to your trailer and gameplay moments.
 
I only ever did one game and there was far less things happening on the screen than in a twinstick shooter ( it was a really simple game ), but what worked for me was some kind of middle ground between the two.

Sending the strict minimum of information and let the client guess/predict what is happening from it, but not allowing it to do somethings like kill a character, because I was also sending more information so that the client could re sync itself with the host ( it's been years, I can't remember if I did that at given time interval or if it was doing it as often as possible, I should recheck that code someday ) so things never really could become visibly different for each player.

Having the client predict the game state sounds interesting. Sounds like it might be complicated with multiple objects but it is nice keep in mind.

For more information about what I'm working on, think of it like 2 screens side by side, like Tetris Attack or Twinkle Star Sprites, so any interaction between the two players is indirect, like destroying things on their side will pop things up on their opponent's side. Which makes things easier than having a direct interaction.

I'm definitely going to be a lot more reading to see how people implement netcode, though some of it at the moment is way outside of my comfort zone. Conceptually, I was thinking of having a simulation run on both the player and opponent's side, then whenever a certain action happens within one simulation, like the player gets hit or an action like shooting a laser is done, then it will send an update to reflect that on the other player's screen and resync the game then.
 

MimiMe

Member
Unfortunately not, but can schedule the time on my own.
Will get harder from August forward. Next-gen gamer is coming! :)


If only the process of making a game would be as easy as making kids; at least as it is for guys... ^^

I am currently thinking a lot about all the things I can optimize before I even start my next game. As dev time is limited with the baby, you got to use the little time you have properly.
 

missile

Member
It looked funky nice on mobile gaf :D

I reloaded the code (bit rusty) and did another animation;

n0R2xiz.gif


What you see here is actually not the game, but the board computer of a craft.
I want the crafts have a board computer you can program, extend, or hack to
modify, improve, or tune your craft, or to load programs suitable for certain
strategies for dealing with some of the obstacles coming towards you. The
board computer can also control a display, being part of the surface of the
craft, such that you can display whatever you want on it like (team) logos,
emotions, or tactical signals for team play by loading programs into memory
letting them execute.

I programmed a little 3d engine and a command interface to see how this could
all function. The board computer runs on Notch's DCPU-16. So everything you
see is running on a DCPU-16 all written in assembler. This gave me a feel of
how feasible this all can be. The VRO (Virtual Reality Overlay) unit started
from the board computer (as seen in the animation above) is a special unit
mounted on the craft, which can be programmed and controlled straight from the
DCPU. This unit will project a virtual reality over the scene (in 3d) outside
of your craft helping you to better make things out. The 3d stuff displayed on
the screen of the boad computer (animation above) should just be a rude
approximation of what is projected outside.

EXNO Research is a research facility working on some new technology
building transcendental speed crafts taking you into teh zone. These
high-speed crafts, board computers etc. are all developed and tested over
there.

The idea is to make the player start as a test-pilot at EXNO Research.
The story of the game unfolds from here on out and will go way deep, but
that's something I can't talk about resp. spoil, yet.


Yeah, I'm making that up -- but for a very long time already. ;) It's a
long-term project for me. I will release other stuff beforehand, but that's
the game everything converges to. Every line of code, every effect I do lends
towards that one game.


If only the process of making a game would be as easy as making kids; at least as it is for guys... ^^

I am currently thinking a lot about all the things I can optimize before I even start my next game. As dev time is limited with the baby, you got to use the little time you have properly.
Yeah. But I think thousands of people did it already and so will we! :)

This looks very nice. ...
Thx a lot, man!
 

aesinv

Neo Member
Wowza it's been a while since I've scoped out this thread. Some super cool stuff going on in here :D

I recently moved overseas and in the wake of getting used to life I had an extended break from doing any hobby development, but have finally gotten back into it the last few weeks. After spending way too much time polishing up about 5 different prototypes I decided I should stick with one project and dedicate myself to finishing it, so I decided to embark on making a mobile platformer about a ninja bestowed with the gift of time by the gods, who doesn't like violence and just became a ninja because he thought they looked cool.

Just finished a build a few minutes ago to get feedback from some friends in regards to the physics and the time dash ability, which you activate by tapping and holding on the character to slow down time then swiping in the direction you want him to dash.

FittingBrilliantHerculesbeetle-size_restricted.gif


The dash is a lot of fun to use, my only concern is that as the character is not always in the same spot it will make it hard and obnoxious to use. Kind of anticipating having to come up with a different implementation after I get impressions back.

BossyMeaslyAndeancockoftherock-size_restricted.gif


Now that I've finished a lot of the fun data persistence and foundational stuff I'm excited to focus on artwork, level design and improvements. Here's some background artwork for it that I've been working on:

0YEeT82.png


ZBzw2lI.png
 
I'm finding it exceptionally hard to keep my attention when trying to learn a scripting language. It's so boring and every time I come to the part where I follow tutorials and triple check my code according to the video, but it still doesn't work. I think I'm going to move on to Unreal Tournament Editor.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I spent a full week of holidays on my SRPG project, now sitting at 6-7 out of 20 missions done (the seventh needs some balancing still). Pixel work and level design is really a lot of work, including some less fun parts like playing through older missions in a variety of ways to ensure one does not regularly end up in an unwinnable fight. When compared to the 3D platformer I'm making, testing SRPG levels is a bitch. It's a good thing I settled for 20 rather than 30 missions. Good thing is, that my job is ending in August and I still have 50 days of holidays left, so there is a lot more time off work to invest in the game down the line :).
 

_Rob_

Member
Clive 'N' Wrench has a level set in a Mob controlled 1930's bayou. My intent is always to avoid generic settings as much as possible. As such, in an effort to sidestep the boring old "swamp level" tropes, the final section is "Micro Italy". After all, where better for The Mob to run their dodgy enterprises than hidden in their own micro city, deep in the Bayou!

Oh and please excuse the lack of props, they are coming!

CajunItaliano.png
 

missile

Member
Tried to record a couple of standing patterns due to temporal aliasing. That's
what you get to see when recording the rotating blades of a helicopter given a
finite sampling rate (in time) of the camera. At some specific speeds it looks
like the blades (plane in the animation) aren't rotating at all (standing)
or show multiple copies of it.

In the animation below the speed is ever so increased running into temporal
aliasing.

lOSqmmR.gif



I tried to isolate one standing pattern but to no avail. You can see it to
some degree. The issue here is the non-constant framerate and also gifcam
has some effect on it while recording. But this can all be fixed over time
such that the pattern would be truly standing.

Y6a40QK.gif
 

missile

Member
Clive 'N' Wrench has a level set in a Mob controlled 1930's bayou. My intent is always to avoid generic settings as much as possible. As such, in an effort to sidestep the boring old "swamp level" tropes, the final section is "Micro Italy". After all, where better for The Mob to run their dodgy enterprises than hidden in their own micro city, deep in the Bayou!

Oh and please excuse the lack of props, they are coming!

CajunItaliano.png

Makes me wanna eat a pizza! :) Have you an animation of that scene?
That still image is a bit too, well, still for me. ;)
 

Nosgoroth

Member

Launch status update: slooowly approaching 1k copies sold after two weeks. Trend is slightly upwards and very irregular, which feels weird and I don't expect it to last long.

iOS version has sort of paid for the cost of the Apple developer account, Android has done better, and Steam is easily the most popular platform, but... yeah. At the price we're asking it's not even close to the point where I could call it a success. It's a pity, because all reactions have been excellent.

High-exposure coverage so far has been a video by a 8M-subscriber Spanish Youtuber and a stream by what looks like a big-ish(?) Twitch streamer who got a bit frustrated with anime questions but didn't notice you can turn them off :(

Biggest technical issue so far is that I couldn't get texture compression to work properly on iOS, and Unity's Texture Packer introduced all sorts of weird artifacts, so I had to release with a 2.5GB app while Android is ~300MB, and it kills me inside.
 

oxrock

Gravity is a myth, the Earth SUCKS!
It took me longer than I'd care to admit, but I FINALLY implemented a means to programmatically create UI sprites for my procedurally generated equipment. There's something like 3200+ possible sword mesh combinations just for what's been implemented so far, there was no way in HELL I was gonna be sitting there screen shotting all that by hand for UI elements, rofl. SO glad that's set for all the other equipment slots to use when ready.

Maybe I can actually get back to doing fun stuff, like working on the combat system, or implementing more classes. There needs to be more of me!

SFKi3dq.gif

GIMP kept crashing creating this GIF but I persisted! No, that's not all of them obviously, just what got exported before it crashed ;p
 
^ I don't like scripting languages as well.
Didn't UE went away from scripting in favor of C++ again?

You mean Unreal Engine? I'm not sure I haven't touched that since like 2013. What I dislike about programming and scripting languages is that it feels like I'm just exercising my memory like most classes in school. I'm not learning and understanding it. I had the most fun with LBP because I felt like I was figuring out what makes a level fun and understanding what works together and what doesn't. If there was a part of my level that was glitchy or something I would play around and figure out how to fix it. If anything I use requires this, I'm not sure how I'm going to move beyond because what I'm actually good at (writing) it's not all that valued in the industry.
 

Tain

Member
You mean Unreal Engine? I'm not sure I haven't touched that since like 2013. What I dislike about programming and scripting languages is that it feels like I'm just exercising my memory like most classes in school. I'm not learning and understanding it. I had the most fun with LBP because I felt like I was figuring out what makes a level fun and understanding what works together and what doesn't. If there was a part of my level that was glitchy or something I would play around and figure out how to fix it. If anything I use requires this, I'm not sure how I'm going to move beyond because what I'm actually good at (writing) it's not all that valued in the industry.

taking a guess here, but I think you'll like UE4's Blueprint. I don't know if you've worked with any visual scripting systems, but it might give you a more clear idea of what's going on during the early learning phases and you don't have to worry as much about remembering syntax.
 

Minamu

Member
In an attempt to make my performance better, I decided to break my relatively large objects into smaller pieces, so light sources have smaller objects to place shadows on. I have no idea if this'll improve anything. I read somewhere that in unity with forward rendering, you get additional draw calls for each light that hits an object, but I don't know if the size of the object and its polygons matter. My line of thinking was that this way, fewer vertices need to be taken into consideration when calculating shadows, am I off base here? I *think* my fps might be a bit better and the level looks identical, the main thing that happened was that my file size doubled to 4.6mb ;)
 

GulAtiCa

Member
Finally! I have finished play testing my game 100% and making sure everything is ready. I finally finished my game, Drop It: Block Paradise!, and submitted it to Nintendo lotcheck.

Been 2 & half crazy years working on this.
 

sinxtanx

Member
after spending several months trying to code my own matchmaking system for the game I'm working on I suddenly had the obvious realization that players might want to use steam's matchmaking to connect to eventual game servers instead

does someone have a nuke they can nuke me with
 
Hey folks - I'm looking to get a few testers for a new build of Wildfire. This is primarily to find a variety of systems to test the performance of the fluid dynamics plugin, which we want to use for fire effects:

WZaj87D.gif


I don't want to distribute this build publicly so just reply here or send me a PM (include your system specs), and I can link you to it. Just need to you to play through the opening and a few main levels (all up about 20 minutes) and let me know if your framerate drops significantly.

Also open to any other feedback if you think of it!
 
taking a guess here, but I think you'll like UE4's Blueprint. I don't know if you've worked with any visual scripting systems, but it might give you a more clear idea of what's going on during the early learning phases and you don't have to worry as much about remembering syntax.

I don't even think my 1.5 GB PC can handle Unreal Engine 4.

Today, at a meeting I ran into a music studio and asked a guy there about a recommended music program. I told him I was using Mixcraft and he suggested Pro Tunes. I think I'll give that a try and see if I like the sound of instruments better on it than Mixcraft. I'm also going to try and see if I can get a ride to my local HBCU to see if anyone there wants to work with me making a game. It didn't work out the last college, but I have to keep trying if I want to get anywhere.
 

missile

Member
You mean Unreal Engine? I'm not sure I haven't touched that since like 2013. What I dislike about programming and scripting languages is that it feels like I'm just exercising my memory like most classes in school. I'm not learning and understanding it. I had the most fun with LBP because I felt like I was figuring out what makes a level fun and understanding what works together and what doesn't. If there was a part of my level that was glitchy or something I would play around and figure out how to fix it. If anything I use requires this, I'm not sure how I'm going to move beyond because what I'm actually good at (writing) it's not all that valued in the industry.
The thing with LBP is that the language there is sort of a domain specific
language which always makes it easier to build stuff from this domain (i.e
levels/mechanics). However, any general purpose language not tailored to a
specific domain will be more complex/native to be able to actually build
user-defined domain elements on their own called building blocks. If you wrap
up all these blocks with some rules you get your own "domain specific language"
making it easier for you or another one to build stuff out of it within the
given domain the blocks were built for.

From my experience there isn't much to learn or understand about general
purpose languages. It's more about how to use a language as a tool to build
these blocks while combining them into useful libraries which, from a certain
distance, can be seen as a domain specific language on their own but
implemented as a (configurable) library and not as a (yet another) new
language thrown at people. And I think that's something worth to learn about
languages, i.e. how they allow you to implement powerful and usable libraries.

My problem with scripting languages is that there is always this boundary
between that language and the native language used which makes it hard to
debug across that boundary. And many of the scripting languages become rather
complex over time such that you can likewise stick with the native one. So
there is only a small corridor where a scripting language make some good sense.


In an attempt to make my performance better, I decided to break my relatively large objects into smaller pieces, so light sources have smaller objects to place shadows on. I have no idea if this'll improve anything. I read somewhere that in unity with forward rendering, you get additional draw calls for each light that hits an object, but I don't know if the size of the object and its polygons matter. My line of thinking was that this way, fewer vertices need to be taken into consideration when calculating shadows, am I off base here? I *think* my fps might be a bit better and the level looks identical, the main thing that happened was that my file size doubled to 4.6mb ;)
It depend on how shadow-maps are implemented. If the shadow mapping process
knows about an object's bounding box, then simple culling can be implemented
to discard entire objects from rendering into the shadow-map. Splitting an
object into pieces will enhance the culling, for you can discard more parts
of the object before spending more expensive work on them.


after spending several months trying to code my own matchmaking system for the game I'm working on I suddenly had the obvious realization that players might want to use steam's matchmaking to connect to eventual game servers instead

does someone have a nuke they can nuke me with
Now you know how it works! ;)
 

Tregard

Soothsayer
Hello all, my team's game "Matchbox" just got taken down from the Google Play store due to alleged trademark infringement. We're apparently infringing on Mattel's line of Matchbox cars, but the game is a word puzzle game with nothing to do with that. I'm really unsure what to do about this, I'm fairly sure our use of what is a pretty common word is completely fair as a name, but I don't want to respond to the takedown until I understand if we have any recourse. Has anyone had a similar experience and could give some advice?
 

missile

Member
... my team's game "Matchbox" ...
Just reading these few words above told me the whole story! Some names are
set in stone like.no.other and Matchbox is one of them. I don't think you guys
stand any change unless your game turns out to be a restaurant in disguise.
Sure, it's a puzzle game and not any cars or similar, but the puzzle is
something to play with and entertaining like the Matchbox cars. So you are
going for the same marked, the same audience.
Some people playing with
Matchbox cars may think there is now a puzzle game from Matchbox. So you may
profit from their brand even if you don't know about it. Sure they will come
after you. Good luck!
 

Minamu

Member
Then we're probably sol as well. Our game is called holy sheep and there are several mobile games and non-commercial student projects with the same name, although they're in wildly different genres and artstyles etc.

We've tried coming up with a name equal in "wit" but we've come up short so far :/
 
If you're using Construct2 and Windows 10, be warned - after the Windows 10 Creators Update, Construct2 stopped being able to load files, or make new projects, without crashing on my system. I had to roll back pre-Creators Update just to get it working again, as reinstalling didn't help.

I had several other programs also stop working after the Creators Update, so rolling back was necessary anyway.
 

Kamaki

Member
Yeah it was an open offer, I'd be happy to give it a look. I'd highlight UX issues with screenshots, descriptions of the issue and its consequence, as well as potential solutions (sometimes with reference and screenshots to other games).

I can only realistically play windows or android builds however, should have said that before. Others would be very awkward for me to play as I don't personally own an iphone or dev kits for consoles.

Probably could get a brief report back to you within a week, could post on gaf and or email it to you, whichever you prefer.

Something to bear in mind though is that I'm still a junior in this field so I'm still learning too. There might be some issues I don't observe and some solutions I'm not aware of, but I still feel it would be very helpful especially if as you say, you think things like your interface might be a bit 'janky'.
I will most definitely take you up on the offer then! Getting a build I want people to try is taking just a taaadddd longer then expected, but I'll pm you a code either tomorrow or the day after. Looking forward to hearing what you think!

The game is currently planned for Steam and Xbox One initially, then PS4 and Switch if successful.
Well I've got a few of those platforms so I'm ready. The idea of a Switch version gets me hot and bothered.

I remember seeing this, in fact I seem to recall the whole idea that you posted of it being a programmable computer of sorts. Always thought that was a wild idea. Pretty interested in seeing how the game would look now with all the new rendering tech you've implemented now.

Oh boy, not sure how I would feel playing a game like this but in gif form I'm certainly down. Reminds me of when a you move the camera around in Keyshot and don't let the render fully resolve.

These backgrounds look lovely. Watching those dash gifs had me confused until I realised the games for mobile and you control direction with a finger! If that feels good I can see the game being fun.

Launch status update: slooowly approaching 1k copies sold after two weeks. Trend is slightly upwards and very irregular, which feels weird and I don't expect it to last long.

Biggest technical issue so far is that I couldn't get texture compression to work properly on iOS, and Unity's Texture Packer introduced all sorts of weird artifacts, so I had to release with a 2.5GB app while Android is ~300MB, and it kills me inside.
Sorry to hear about the slow launch; your attempt at outreach must have done something right though, I don't know how but I'm aware of the game through youtube and not through your twitter or another social media.
That's a crazy size difference between versions, Unity let you down then? You got a plan to get around it or is it a wait and see if Unity fix a bug down the line sort of thing.

WZaj87D.gif


I don't want to distribute this build publicly so just reply here or send me a PM (include your system specs), and I can link you to it. Just need to you to play through the opening and a few main levels (all up about 20 minutes) and let me know if your framerate drops significantly.

Also open to any other feedback if you think of it!
If you're still looking I would to give the game a go, I'm happy to offer feedback. :)


Been a little wild lately, I was really trying to get a small beta build ready for yesterday and I've pushed that back slightly to get a build that's actually worth testing.
I am looking for a small group though, maybe 10 people, as I'm likely to distribute a build via steam later this week. If anyone wants to give the game a go and drop me some criticism then shoot me a PM or reply here and I'll get you a key.

We did successfully finish up a trailer. Looking back we've pretty dramatically changed how the game looks and plays compared to what we took to Playstation Premios as our entry. May not come across but I'm super pleased with the changes we've made. At the very least the trailer is snappier!

To answer a question from earlier regarding how the game plays, here's some copy I have prepared for just such a thing.
  • The game is split into two distinct sections. Firstly you have the over world, presented to you in a classic orthographic style. Here you have full control of your character and are free to explore the islands you have access to. You're able to interact with your army, build new structures to train units and engage in battles. There are secrets to discover so it's worth poking around!
  • During battles the camera shifts into a perspective view overlooking the battlefield. You place down the units you've trained on the over world with the aim of defeating the incoming forces. There are many different monsters and learning their different behaviours and coming up with specific strategies for each is important for your success. If you’re ever stuck on a battle, taking a step back and trying new units can prove advantageous; failing that you can always try to overwhelm the enemy!
 
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