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[Amir0x]

From reading this thread, it seems you tried to play that card and then got owned by multiple replies.

I did play the nostalgia card: because it was right. And as was drawn out, it was proven right. Some even ADMITTED it was nostalgia. And thus far, not a single person has provided any hard evidence as to how there is a systemic problem with music today vs. music of old.

In short, you'd have to be mentally handicapped to believe your interpretation.

 

[HK-47]

From reading this thread, it seems you tried to play that card and then got owned by multiple replies.

If by owned you mean responded to, then I guess he did.

 

[darkwings]

imo the best music was in the PS1/N64 era


FF7
FF8
FF9
OoT
MM
Perfect Dark
SotN

etc

 

[Azure J]

The only thing "wrong" with video game music right now is the fact that people like David Wise (Donkey Kong Country series, primarily 2) and Hideki Naganuma (Jet Set Radio series, Sonic Rush) don't compose often enough. :lol

EDIT - Also, Capcom's Inticreates' sound team "III" & Mahito Yokota say hi.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

I did play the nostalgia card: because it was right. And as was drawn out, it was proven right. Some even ADMITTED it was nostalgia. And thus far, not a single person has provided any hard evidence as to how there is a systemic problem with music today vs. music of old.

In short, you'd have to be mentally handicapped to believe your interpretation.

Nobody has provided any hard evidence on anything in this entire thread.

I just find most compositions today are too ambient for their own good or they sound like something I've heard a billion times before. I like songs with a strong melody that make themselves feel like part of the game, which is why I don't care much for stuff found in Gears or WoW.

There can be a nice middleground. Radiant Dawn's soundtrack has some great ambient tunes with a little bit of melody to keep them from becoming boring. It's a shame more developers don't do the same.

 

[LoganKnight4949]

...nevermind...

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Simply put, music is simply different in games today because games are different. Wether it's "good" or "bad" is all subjective.

I actually said the same thing awhile back, but I don't think it excuses the complete lack of effort you see in a lot of games today. They could at least come up with a good title theme, like Battlefield has.

 

[Amir0x]

Nobody has provided any hard evidence on anything in this entire thread.

I just find most compositions today are too ambient for their own good or they sound like something I've heard a billion times before. I like songs with a strong melody that make themselves feel like part of the game, which is why I don't care much for stuff found in Gears or WoW.

There can be a nice middleground. Radiant Dawn's soundtrack has some great ambient tunes with a little bit of melody to keep them from becoming boring. It's a shame more developers don't do the same.

Again, you are simply choosing ONE specific type of music that wasn't really prevalent back in the NES era to pick on. When there are so many hundreds of other types of tracks and game music types, just incalculably larger in variety to the NES era, that it makes no sense.

You may find ambient/atmospheric tracks to be lame. I can totally understand that. Nobody is attacking anyone's preferences.

I am simply asking someone, ANYONE to come up with a single systemic problem with game music today that makes it somehow "worse" than old game music. The idea that game music of old is more memorable is something like confirmation bias, since

a.) music was far simpler, thus by definition easier to remember
b.) nostalgic memories of melody intertwined with youth, again, give a leg up on 'memorable.'
c.) there are plenty of memorable tracks today that are not atmospheric/ambient at all, since there is so much more variety.
d.) you are obviously remembering memorable NES music and forgetting non-memorable NES music, so in ten years come back to the music that is around now and we'll see :lol

Hard fact: game music today has far more variety than game music in the NES era.

 

[Odrion]

is music in today's games even that important anymore?

Well, better way to put it - Music had a bigger role on older platforms than they do now. I don't think it's a bad thing, I think it means that a lot of games today take a direction where music is either not needed or could be a detriment to the experience.

 

[darkwings]

is music in today's games even that important anymore?

Without good music, the game is a lot worse in my book.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Again, you are simply choosing ONE specific type of music that wasn't really prevalent back in the NES era to pick on. When there are so many hundreds of other types of tracks and game music types, just incalculably larger in variety to the NES era, that it makes no sense.

You may find ambient/atmospheric tracks to be lame. I can totally understand that. Nobody is attacking anyone's preferences.

I am simply asking someone, ANYONE to come up with a single systemic problem with game music today that makes it somehow "worse" than old game music.

You're looking for hard answers on something that is a matter of opinion, so when people give you their reasons you can't turn around and go "Aha, nostalgia. Told you."

It all boils down to preference, which you acknowledge, so I'm not sure why you want to blame nostalgia so much. I don't care if there is more variety in today's game music if I don't enjoy listening to it, so I think bringing it up is a pretty weak argument, but again, preferences.

Without good music, the game is a lot worse in my book.

Completely agreed, but thankfully the vast majority of games have the option to turn music off. Being to able to turn it off to better hear the sound effects, or to better hear the game while listening to something else is a real blessing.

 

[Amir0x]

You're looking for hard answers on something that is a matter of opinion, so when people give you their reasons you can't turn around and go "Aha, nostalgia. Told you."

It all boils down to preference, which you acknowledge, so I'm not sure why you want to blame nostalgia so much. I don't care if there is more variety in today's game music if I don't enjoy listening to it, so I think bringing it up is a pretty weak argument, but again, preferences.

I think the problem is people are reading small segments of what I and others are writing, and completely failing to see the overall theme.

NOBODY is saying it is wrong to PREFER NES music. Not me, not anyone else I can see. I am saying it IS nostalgia to say there is a systemic problem with game music today versus old NES-style music.

That is when it becomes rose-tinted glasses, nostalgia, ignorance factually.

 

[ronito]

To me the big problem is that a lot of game music has gotten to self-important and puffed up. This leads to a lot of mono-chromatic music. The OP is very right in certain respects, certain games have given themselves to music that can only exist within the confines of the game. But at the same time he's overlooking games like Persona 4, TWEWY, CC and other games that really are taking game music in new but still enjoyable

 

[LoganKnight4949]

I think the problem is people are reading small segments of what I and others are writing, and completely failing to see the overall theme.

NOBODY is saying it is wrong to PREFER NES music. Not me, not anyone else I can see. I am saying it IS nostalgia to say there is a systemic problem with game music today versus old NES-style music.

That is when it becomes rose-tinted glasses, nostalgia, ignorance factually.

You know that this will still go over peoples heads, right?

Another thing I'd like to mention about this "atmosphere" thing.

Game music is atmospheric today because games actually have *gasp* actual atmopshere!

 

[ZephyrFate]

The only composers that consistently impress me are Yasunori Mitsuda, Miki Hagashino, and Yoshitaka Hirota.

Hirota in particular produces some of the weirdest and most unique music ever put into games, let alone RPGs. Industrial techno combined with Celtic chanting and occasionally heavy rock. The guy is a poster child for the genius possible with game soundtracks.

 

[Zanasea]

I think the article should be renamed "what's wrong with occidental game music?". Japanese VGM is anything but what he describes.


If NES music such as Zelda or Mario is easy to remember, it is of course because the melodies were extremely simple. Beautiful, indeed, but very basic. Composers couldn't do more than that, anyway. VGM is more complex now. Not as easy to remember, but a lot deeper. At first composers were "melodists", now they tend to be "harmonists". This change should be a good thing...

Hirota in particular produces some of the weirdest and most unique music ever put into games, let alone RPGs. Industrial techno combined with Celtic chanting and occasionally heavy rock. The guy is a poster child for the genius possible with game soundtracks.

Absolutely. His work on Shadow Hearts is breathtaking. If only other VGM composers were as daring as he is! One of the most interesting VGM composers is probably Masashi Hamauzu. When he worked on SaGa Frontier 2, he simply said: "why bother doing what any other composer could do just as well?" The result was outstanding.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

I think the problem is people are reading small segments of what I and others are writing, and completely failing to see the overall theme.

NOBODY is saying it is wrong to PREFER NES music. Not me, not anyone else I can see. I am saying it IS nostalgia to say there is a systemic problem with game music today versus old NES-style music.

That is when it becomes rose-tinted glasses, nostalgia, ignorance factually.

If I say "More modern games use filler music, which I don't like, and that's why I think there is something wrong with them compared to previous generations" how does that tie in with nostalgia?

Another thing I'd like to mention about this "atmosphere" thing.

Game music is atmospheric today because games actually have *gasp* actual atmopshere!

You know what, forget it. This post has suddenly made me stop caring :lol

 

[LoganKnight4949]

You know what, forget it. This post has suddenly made me stop caring :lol

YES! I have successfully through my opinion, made someone on the internet stop caring!

I consider that a success for the day.

 

[Amir0x]

If I say "More modern games use filler music, which I don't like, and that's why I think there is something wrong with them compared to previous generations" how does that tie in with nostalgia?

Qualify how more modern games use "filler music" versus old NES-style games. There are so many more games today across so many more platforms across so many different types of genres that you cannot qualify it. Which is why it is so difficult for people in this thread to formulate a counter argument to the one I am making.

Let's take it back to its basic premise:

The articles asks "What's wrong with game music?" In modern games, of course.

Its central thesis seems to be that game music was more memorable back then, for various reasons. Some in this thread seem to think that is true.

If you read the full article, it runs down a litany of excuses ranging from games were harder back then and thus players were repeating levels more often (and hearing themes repeated more often), to the necessity of music not "overbearing" the more complicated titles of today. The main problem is that the article thought it could actually generalize the "problem" as systemic, meaning it is actually just plain not memorable like the old days.

In actual fact, there is so much memorable music today that it is simply hard to reach a consensus on what is the best and what is memorable, since like the diversity in music people have grown more diverse in taste in regards to game music.

The diversity is just obscene:

DS:

* World Ends With You
* Final Fantasy Tactics A2
* Rhythm Heaven
* Let's Tap
* Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars
* Space Invaders Extreme
* Elite Beat Agents/Oeundan
* Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia

PSP:

* Grand Theft Auto VCS/LCS
* DJ Portable Max
* FFVII: Crisis Core
* God of War: Chains of Olympus
* Patapon
* LocoRoco
* Final Fantasy Tactics
* Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops

PS2

* Frequency/Amplitude
* Persona 3/4
* Final Fantasy X/Final Fantasy XII
* Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas/Vice City
* Katamari Damacy
* Dragon Quest VIII
* Shadow of the Colossus
* Rez (Dreamcast)

Gamecube

* F-Zero GX
* Zelda: Wind Waker/Twilight Princess
* Beyond Good & Evil
* Baten Kaitos 1/2
* Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door
* Pikmin 2
* Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat
* Metroid Prime 1

Wii

* Super Mario Galaxy
* No More Heroes
* Bit.Trip Beat
* Megaman 9
* Chocobo Dungeon
* Super Smash Bros. Brawl
* Wario Land: Shake!

360

* Halo 3
* Dead Space
* Mass Effect
* Bioshock
* Lost Odyssey
* Blue Dragon
* Grand Theft Auto IV/Lost and the Damned
* Rockband/Guitar Hero

Now, your list may be different. You may not like what I have posted in this list, which was merely an illustration of the incredible diversity in games today. When someone says there is a "problem" with game music today versus the game music of old, I ask you to qualify it specifically because I know it is impossible. Because that line of thought is nostalgia blinding you to the reality of the situation. There is no lone problem dogging game music today or its inherent memorability.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Game music of today is so much better than game music used to be.

Old midi sounded ridiculous. Just stop.

 

[darkwings]

Qualify how more modern games use "filler music" versus old NES-style games. There are so many more games today across so many more platforms across so many different types of genres that you cannot qualify it. Which is why it is so difficult for people in this thread to formulate a counter argument to the one I am making.

Let's take it back to its basic premise:

The articles asks "What's wrong with game music?" In modern games, of course.

Its central thesis seems to be that game music was more memorable back then, for various reasons. Some in this thread seem to think that is true.

If you read the full article, it runs down a litany of excuses ranging from games were harder back then and thus players were repeating levels more often (and hearing themes repeated more often), to the necessity of music not "overbearing" the more complicated titles of today. The main problem is that the article thought it could actually generalize the "problem" as systemic, meaning it is actually just plain not memorable like the old days.

In actual fact, there is so much memorable music today that it is simply hard to reach a consensus on what is the best and what is memorable, since like the diversity in music people have grown more diverse in taste in regards to game music.

The diversity is just obscene:

DS:

* World Ends With You
* Final Fantasy Tactics A2
* Rhythm Heaven
* Let's Tap
* Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars
* Space Invaders Extreme
* Elite Beat Agents/Oeundan
* Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia

PSP:

* Grand Theft Auto VCS/LCS
* DJ Portable Max
* FFVII: Crisis Core
* God of War: Chains of Olympus
* Patapon
* LocoRoco
* Final Fantasy Tactics
* Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops

PS2

* Frequency/Amplitude
* Persona 3/4
* Final Fantasy X/Final Fantasy XII
* Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas/Vice City
* Katamari Damacy
* Dragon Quest VIII
* Shadow of the Colossus
* Rez (Dreamcast)

Gamecube

* F-Zero GX
* Zelda: Wind Waker/Twilight Princess
* Beyond Good & Evil
* Baten Kaitos 1/2
* Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door
* Pikmin 2
* Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat
* Metroid Prime 1

Wii

* Super Mario Galaxy
* No More Heroes
* Bit.Trip Beat
* Megaman 9
* Chocobo Dungeon
* Super Smash Bros. Brawl
* Wario Land: Shake!

360

* Halo 3
* Dead Space
* Mass Effect
* Bioshock
* Lost Odyssey
* Blue Dragon
* Grand Theft Auto IV/Lost and the Damned
* Rockband/Guitar Hero

Now, your list may be different. You may not like what I have posted in this list, which was merely an illustration of the incredible diversity in games today. When someone says there is a "problem" with game music today versus the game music of old, I ask you to qualify it specifically because I know it is impossible. Because that line of thought is nostalgia blinding you to the reality of the situation. There is no lone problem dogging game music today or its inherent memorability.

lacks killer7 for gamecube

 

[Amir0x]

that is a good one, yeah

 

[starchild excalibur]

in b4 "8 and 16-bit era game music was better"


or am I already too late?


There's great game music out there, but of course a lot of it will depend on your tastes. I'm heavily into electronic and hip hop music so games like Rez HD, GTA 4, Rollcage, Killer 7 and whatnot will always sound infinitely better than the music I heard in games as a kid. And til this day, the Ridge Racer Type 4 OST will still put me at ease, no matter the situation. I don't think game music is getting worse - there has just always been more shitty music out there than awesome music.

 

[Azure J]

lacks killer7 for gamecube

Also requires a Dreamcast list (Skies of Arcadia, Jet Set Radio, Space Channel 5) and Jet Set Radio Future.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Streets of Rage 2

bam!

 

[Neomoto]

is music in today's games even that important anymore?

Sure it is. I can't imagine playing, say, Wind Waker without the fuckawesome music. In games like that, it becomes almost part of the gameplay.

 

[Shig]

I think an unexplored part of the problem may be the ability given in each time period to 'stop and small the roses', if you will.

In side-scrolling games, enemies were almost entirely confined in their own little patrol areas with predictable, repetitive movement patterns. You could stand right outside the enemy's territory, observe their pattern, jump in and dispatch them, then explore the immediate vicinity without fear of further engagement. Even with trickier enemies, it's not like there was a lot of strategic options at hand to think about. You could run and/or jump to the left or right when it does something, and if that didn't work you just did it again with refined timing.

With games now, oftentimes you're being thrown into enemy gauntlets where they will approach in large numbers, from all sides, and aggressively encroach on your position. Their actions are more varied and idiosyncratic and their positions can be all over the place. You have many more options of attack at your disposal each with their own strengths and weaknesses to consider and less extendedly viable safe places to hole up at to plan how to best implement them.

With so much more to think on and less time to do it in, it's easy to get caught up in a situation where you tune out the background music. Plus now that music is often contextually-based, a good battle track might fade away once you get the opportunity to actually take a breath and pay attention to it.

 

[Amir0x]

I think an unexplored part of the problem may be the ability given in each time period to 'stop and small the roses', if you will.

In side-scrolling games, enemies were almost entirely confined in their own little patrol areas with predictable, repetitive movement patterns. You could stand right outside the enemy's territory, observe their pattern, jump in and dispatch them, then explore the immediate vicinity without fear of further engagement. Even with trickier enemies, it's not like there was a lot of strategic options at hand to think about. You could run and/or jump to the left or right when it does something, and if that didn't work you just did it again with refined timing.

With games now, oftentimes you're being thrown into enemy gauntlets where they will approach in large numbers, from all sides, and aggressively encroach on your position. Their actions are more varied and idiosyncratic and their positions can be all over the place. You have many more options of attack at your disposal each with their own strengths and weaknesses to consider and less extendedly viable safe places to hole up at to plan how to best implement them.

With so much more to think on and less time to do it in, it's easy to get caught up in a situation where you tune out the background music. Plus now that music is often contextually-based, a good battle track might fade away once you get the opportunity to actually take a breath and pay attention to it.

Hate to say it but that is actually one of the central points in the actual article if everyone would read it in full

 

[etiolate]

I did play the nostalgia card: because it was right. And as was drawn out, it was proven right. Some even ADMITTED it was nostalgia. And thus far, not a single person has provided any hard evidence as to how there is a systemic problem with music today vs. music of old.

In short, you'd have to be mentally handicapped to believe your interpretation.

No.

People brought up the difference in going from composition focused to orchestrated music, the influence of film and its sometimes generic scores into videogames, the change in way games are made and how it changes music, the change in sound effects, etc.

There are multiple changes in how games were designed in the past to how they are now and those changes impact the music heard in the games.

I can even break it down instrumentally. What is a symphony without an orchestra? A rock band without guitars and drums? Jazz without a drum beat, bass and horns? Unskinny bop played with fiddles no longer feels like a heavy metal song. Going from chiptunes to orchestrations changes the very feel of videogame music(not to mention its previously mentioned composition changes).

You have to ignore the medium and its history to think this is just a case of rose tinted glasses.

Unless you think the de-gaming of music and the separation of itself as an element of the game is good for the industry then your claim is weak. To say that type of music still exists so whats the difference is just agreeing that the former renditions of game music were better.

 

[CapKraig]

Just wait until you hear Bear McCreary's music in Dark Void.

 

[djtiesto]

Game music of today is so much better than game music used to be.

Old midi sounded ridiculous. Just stop.

If it sounded so ridiculous, why are there whole scenes dedicated to creating new music with the limitations of old sound chips still in place?

 

[discoalucard]

Haven't read the whole article (blocked at work) nor the whole thread but...I think the key point that people are missing don't necessarily involve the music itself but how it's used. Older games tended to associate music pieces with specific levels or events. On the other hand, a lot of modern games tend to have terrible music direction, and either ignore it completely or use music that's far too indistinct. Everyone can remember the first level theme from Castlevania, and what's associated with it, but does anyone really remember what the first level of Half Life sounded like? How about Rare's awesome Perfect Dark soundtrack versus the flavorless Call of Duty music?

For some more modern examples - System Shock 2 vs Bioshock. System Shock 2 mostly had generic techno, not that great on its own, but each area of the ship had its own music, both atmospheric for the quieter moments and harder for the action moments. Just by listening to the themes, you could identify where you were. Can anyone remember what Fort Frolic in Bioshock sounded like?

On the same note: Command and Conquer 3 vs Red Alert 3. C&C 3 used kinda vanilla electro orchestral, but Red Alert 3 gave unique themes to each of the three factions, giving them more of an identity.

It seems like the best a lot of modern games can do nowadays is just have one specific theme and repeat variations of it over and over. Halo and God of War do this. Their themes are fantastic, but broken down on a level-by-level basis, there's nothing memorable beyond that.

I also don't think Brandon was bagging on John Williams, so much as bagging on of the legion of composers that try to ape his style and end up sounding incredibly generic.

If it sounded so ridiculous, why are there whole scenes dedicated to creating new music with the limitations of old sound chips still in place?

Because they're idiots who are blinded by nostalgia, obviously.

 

[Lionheart1827]

When I saw this thread I immediately thought of FF12. Yeah I know, everythings subjective, people like the soundtrack to that game. However, I felt that FF12 for some really strange reason reminded me way more of The Phantom Menace then a FF game. It was just too bombastic.

I was bored the other day (on vacation from work, raining all fucking week) and I was listening to old soundtracks like FF6, Secret of Mana, even Contra and ninja gaiden. And one thing that kept going on and on in my mind "What happened? why isnt game music this catchy anymore." Yeah theres probably a little bit of nostalgia thrown in there, but damn, too many games sound too much like a movie score now rather than catchy music. Theres nothing wrong with huge orchestras and stuff, but damn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZqazbULRRA

They had so little to work with in terms of software and limitations but holy crap it was damn good. It wasnt overly drawn out, just a quick tune and then it repeats again.

 

[Cosmozone]

Nostalgia is a unfortunate word for what is a more general problem since it applies to every type of categorization, not only old times. You like one item in the category and you think the rest must be as good. I had to learn the hard way several times. It's even more painful if others happen to rave about something that leaves you totally cold.

 

[poppabk]

The same thing that is wrong with (blockbuster) movie music nowadays, music is purely used to evoke simple emotions, and certain styles of music are used as shorthand for specific emotions. Hell with movies you often hear the exact same orchestral pieces in different movies, usually at the same "this is sad", "we're building tension", "the good guys are losing", "the good guys made a comeback" points. The music becomes as generic as jets always taking off at sunrise in a Michael Bay movie. Doesn't mean that the music isn't good, just like jets do look cool taking off at sunrise, its the usage that lacks imagination.

 

[BobsRevenge]

If it sounded so ridiculous, why are there whole scenes dedicated to creating new music with the limitations of old sound chips still in place?

There are scenes for ridiculous things everywhere, so what?

I mean, there are S&M scenes out there too. You going to say S&M isn't ridiculous because it has a scene as well?

Yeah, I just equated the video-game music scene to S&M, big whoop, wanna fight about it?

And I can't really argue with anyone about how memorable music is either. I don't have a good memory for that kind of thing. The only old video-game music that I can remember right now that isn't part of pop-culture (mario and that kind of thing) is Hell March from Red Alert.

Coming up with a catchy midi tune is A LOT easier than composing the music a lot of games are using now-a-days. Besides that, the timbres of orchestral music are FAR less grating than the timbres of old-school midi (and more capable of conveying emotion).

And I also don't see any kind of direct connection between memorability and quality. I don't remember any of Lair's score as well as that one Mario song, but that's more because it is FAR FAR FAR more complex and hasn't been drilled into your brain by pop-culture and shit. I do, however, remember sitting down and listening to Lair's score through its special features and being absolutely blown away by the quality. There is no way that music of that quality is even possible with old technology like that.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

I wish I had seen this thread earlier, but it seems that Amirox is on the right track. Personally I find the music of western games to stand out much less than that of Japanese developed games, but perhaps that's just a personal preference. But...

What is wrong with game music?

Miki Higashino doesn't write it anymore, and Yasunori Mitsuda only seems to do soundtracks for handheld games : (

 

[Cosmozone]

Coming up with a catchy midi tune is A LOT easier than composing the music a lot of games are using now-a-days.

If that were true, there would be more good midi tunes. But there's only a few, just as it's the case with more complex music. As always, art > everything else.

 

[djtiesto]

There are scenes for ridiculous things everywhere, so what?

I mean, there are S&M scenes out there too. You going to say S&M isn't ridiculous because it has a scene as well?

Yeah, I just equated the video-game music scene to S&M, big whoop, wanna fight about it?

And I can't really argue with anyone about how memorable music is either. I don't have a good memory for that kind of thing. The only old video-game music that I can remember right now that isn't part of pop-culture (mario and that kind of thing) is Hell March from Red Alert.

Coming up with a catchy midi tune is A LOT easier than composing the music a lot of games are using now-a-days. Besides that, the timbres of orchestral music are FAR less grating than the timbres of old-school midi (and more capable of conveying emotion).

And I also don't see any kind of direct connection between memorability and quality. I don't remember any of Lair's score as well as that one Mario song, but that's more because it is FAR FAR FAR more complex and hasn't been drilled into your brain by pop-culture and shit. I do, however, remember sitting down and listening to Lair's score through its special features and being absolutely blown away by the quality. There is no way that music of that quality is even possible with old technology like that.

So, the only criteria in which music can be enjoyable for you are whether or not it's 'complex'? Are you one of those people who only listen to live/acoustic music too because synthesizers can't convey 'emotion'? The bounds of music are pretty vast and there is stuff out there I can't stand (noise, rap, etc) but I won't deny their musicality. Hell, I tend to have a ton of respect for those who do a lot with much less, i.e. the driving concepts behind the whole minimal techno genre...

I can remember plenty of music from the past (except I have never even heard of Red Alert so I don't know what song that is), though find much of the stuff today forgettable. Now I won't totally argue for a complete return to chiptune soundtracks but can we at least get some more memorable riffs in games?

 

[BobsRevenge]

So, the only criteria in which music can be enjoyable for you are whether or not it's 'complex'?

Certainly not, but it requires more skill in composition. I was just trying to draw the connection between how complex music is and how catchy it is. In general less complex arrangements are more commonly catchy. The people composing the music today are more talanted because they need to be more skilled in their art and, well, obviously the budgets are a lot bigger so they can hire more accomplished musicians. There are simply far more options available to people as far as what kind of approach to take.

And yes, catchy midi tunes are easy to make. Pick a good scale and draw a catchy melodic riff on top of it. Its the same reason it is easier to create a catchy punk rock song than it is to create a catchy prog rock song. Simple repeated riffs. Just because its catchy it doesn't mean it is necessarily good.

As far as my personal preferences go I mainly listen to indie rock. Not very complex music at all really.