So would you consider interactive novels games? Like the Phoenix Wright series?dygiT said:
You know most game researchers/scholars can't even settle on one universally inclusive definition of "game". Saying "games are games" is kind of circular.
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Game Design Philosophies you subscribe to
- Thread starter ronito
- Start date
You know most game researchers/scholars can't even settle on one universally inclusive definition of "game". Saying "games are games" is kind of circular.
disappeared
Banned
A successful game will have a lasting impact. Days, weeks, months, years can go by and suddenly you'll think to yourself, 'hey, I really feel like playing that again.'
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Mikami and Kamiya are the fucking kings of this.thomaser said:
Okami is kind of the exception that proves the rule, though.
MomoPufflet
Member
-every wearable/usable piece of clothing/equipment should be fully modeled and visible on your character
-fully customizable controls in every game regardless of genre
-every single game on the planet should have a new game+
-every classic arcade game re-released on PSN/XBL should give you the option of blacking out the borders rather than filling them with stupid images or distracting graphics
-fully customizable controls in every game regardless of genre
-every single game on the planet should have a new game+
-every classic arcade game re-released on PSN/XBL should give you the option of blacking out the borders rather than filling them with stupid images or distracting graphics
hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka
Member
Halycon said:
By game I mean something like Chess, Checkers, Football, etc. Basically anything that has a set of rules, win/loss conditions, restrictions, strategy, tactics and all of that stuff. I should have elaborated more. So basically what I tried to say was make the above good first and foremost. Sorry for the confusion.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Sam and Max: Episode 3-2
NOW WITH NEW GAME+
NOW WITH NEW GAME+
John Rabbit
Banned
i hear chopping wood is pretty mindless after the 2nd log or so. give that a whirl.DaCocoBrova said:
Green Biker Dude
Banned
- don't waste my time with unnecessary/unskippable cutscenes, unfun grinding and anything else that makes me mad. killing me is okay as long as it involves strategy or reflexes or whatever it is according to the genre. games without any sense of danger are also boring as fuck
- in the menus, have an option to load the last save directly. i don't want to go back to the start menu or reset the game. that is dumb. you are a dumb developer
- avoid one-time/missable events as much as possible. too many makes me paranoid, that might force me to follow a guide, might ruin part of the experience for me. if it's just some it'll be ok
- make it so that i can play it in short bursts or for many hours. but if you have to pick one, make it short bursts, since for the most part only the really good games are played over long periods of time at once
- have subtitles. always
- in the menus, have an option to load the last save directly. i don't want to go back to the start menu or reset the game. that is dumb. you are a dumb developer
- avoid one-time/missable events as much as possible. too many makes me paranoid, that might force me to follow a guide, might ruin part of the experience for me. if it's just some it'll be ok
- make it so that i can play it in short bursts or for many hours. but if you have to pick one, make it short bursts, since for the most part only the really good games are played over long periods of time at once
- have subtitles. always
hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka
Member
oracrest said:
You can get entertained by playing a game but not in the same way a movie does. A lot of developers these days are looking to entertain the player outside of the actual gameplay. The entertainment should be part of the gameplay, i.e. destroying a house in Battlefield: Bad Company 2 or tearing a dude apart with the chainsaw in Gears of War.
Gee, I should really edit my first post. :/
-Games that are fun can be addictive, but games that are addictive doesn't mean they are fun.
-Multiplayer games, outcomes should be determined by skill, maybe some luck, but never who played for longer.
-Multiplayer games, a dedicated developer backing it to fix unfair gameplay or bugs that crop up.
-Multiplayer games, outcomes should be determined by skill, maybe some luck, but never who played for longer.
-Multiplayer games, a dedicated developer backing it to fix unfair gameplay or bugs that crop up.
What's keeping them addicted if there isn't some positive upside to it?Holepunch said:
Only if you're gunning for the try-hard competitive kind of multiplayer.
Agreed. Looking at you Nintendo :|
To be less of a party pooper:
I agree with the Bioware Design Philosophy: DON'T BE AFRAID TO SHELL OUT SOME CASH FOR GOOD WRITERS. IT REALLY SHOWS.
dygiT said:
nowadays, and looking into the future, that line will only continue to blur. There are games now with heavily story driven narrative that give me the same feeling of watching a movie (like Heavy Rain), and there are movies that are balls to the wall dumbass explosions all the way through.
There are fundamentally different things that each medium has at it's disposal, but to flat out say that games can't or shouldn't do 'X' is little extreme.
I also think being scared from Silent Hill is a fun thing to do. "Fun" doesn't have to involve just tickles and bubblegum.
FrankCaron
Member
What kills me is that more games don't use the approach offered by Front Mission 3 (I think it was). Front Mission 3 allowed you to save at any time during battle, but you were forced to quit the game and return to the start screen. Loading your game would subsequently "erase" that save file (or, rather, there was only one save slot for these "any-time save" games). That seems like the perfect mix: it lets people stop playing if something comes up without allowing them to exploit "save whenever".vgachi57 said:
KittyKittyBangBang
Member
-save anywhere (fuck you Dead Rising)
-Half-life-style narrative, never take the player out of the experience
-Co-op campaigns (not so much add-on co-op modes)
-Half-life-style narrative, never take the player out of the experience
-Co-op campaigns (not so much add-on co-op modes)
KittyKittyBangBang
Member
MomoPufflet said:
1000000% agree, I wouldnt have loved Dead Space or RE as much without the new game +
Rollo Lawson
Banned
Rabbitwork said:
:lol
Leondexter said:
Cryostasis and The Void for 2.
Perhaps Silent Hill 2.
While I do not want to play a game that is not fun, to say that games should be geared to providing just that is misguided.
Not all books I read are 'fun' (The Human Stain, Sula and C&P are three of my favorites and they are not 'fun'), I do not watch all movies simply for 'fun' either.
The moment when games do not have to be 'fun' to be good, is the moment where medium has matured to the point where it can be called 'Art'(not that I give a shit if it ever gets there).
Rez said:
Maybe so. I had Nintendo, specifically the Super Mario-games, in mind myself. NSMBWii is a perfect example of this philosophy. Just watch the Super Skills-videos to see how everything, from platform height to enemy placement and timing, is carefully adjusted to allow for both casual playthroughs and for incredible, uninterrupted speed-runs by the very best players out there.
The Super Monkey Ball-series is also a good example, especially the first game. The levels can be played through carefully, but if you're good enough, you can also blaze through them in short bursts of insane jumps and drops and JUST reach the goal by a hair. Actually, I wish they would make super skills-videos for the next game in the series... I bet they have testers who can do anything.
Fimbulvetr
Member
Cep said:
Replace "fun" with "enjoyable" then.
As few in number as they are, I like games that are well written(in all aspects, not just dialogue).
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
ronito said:
essentially what i was stabbing at. context clues, etc.
maybe i should say:
IMPLY and PROVOKE
don't TELL
Halycon said:
As a man who was Diablo II's bitch, I can tell you I played the hell out of that game. It wasn't necessary fun it was just the sense of progression and LOOK AT THEM NUMBERS GET HIGHER. Considering I've never gotten into RTS, I'm done with the Blizzard side of gaming (unless they decide to make another Lost Vikings).
Halycon said:
I just can't see how its fun when it's you versus guy 1000 hours and the best armor/weapon in the game. I can't even see how it's fun to be that guy and stomping scrubs all day.
Fimbulvetr said:
That sorta works.
As for writing, language and dialogue are really the highest on my list. Plot is important, but not as much as the other two IMO. And I barely care about characters. Hand them to me in their basic archetypical forms(as in Dune) and I will be happy.
beelzebozo said:
This is a big one for me. A corollary should be to not use lore as a crutch (Lore is all tell and no show.), your active story is more important than the background.
ZAK said:
Yeah I would. And I'd say interactive experience better defines the medium. Video and game are just terms too small for it and with too much negative baggage, like the word comic became so people had to use sequential art and the really lame graphic novel for people to look at it outside the box that had been created.
John Rabbit
Banned
great post, would read again.Rollo Larson said:
not sure you read my post past the first part and just assumed the rest, but i never said the thread sucked. the topic is interesting, but as per usual, people just throw out blanket statements that apply to remedying a problem they had with one game, and expect it to a) not only apply to ALL games but b) assume everyone will agree because its so vague a concept you can't poke holes in it.
my ideas aren't even ideas, they're mere suggestions. "concepts" or even "philosophies" if you'd like. western developers are too focused with creating games that make minute changes to established mechanics and then letting player make their own fun. eastern/japanese developers sometimes get too wrapped up in creating alien rule systems that require too much time to unravel and enjoy. euro devs tend to make interesting/compelling albeit oddly flawed games.
but replying with a smiley always works too. really keeps the discussion going.
Fulfillment, whether physical or virtual, is still an upside. Unless you were approaching the kind of addiction levels that you hear about on new stories out of Asia. In which case that's not the games fault, but most likely hints to an underlying psychological need for validation.Holepunch said:
/armchair therapist
Not sure what this means. if anything, an element of luck will allow someone who's new to triumph against someone who's decked out in epics. Of course, there's a lot of hardcore players who thinks this is a crutch solely for newbies (and it is, but there's nothing wrong with accessibility) and thus, reject it. In any case, a certain amount of uncertainty makes things fun. It's a balancing act.
Fimbulvetr said:
Well fun is not the same thing as enjoyable. I didnt really enjoy The Void and Pathologic. I was frustrated, disgusted, and depressed by them a lot of the time, and not in the same way that a game with bad mechanics would be (though Pathologic is very obviously a rough first try).
Version 3.0
Member
Cep said:
I disagree, again. They are fun. But, as I said, use "enjoyable" if you like. And you're really, really wrong about the "art" thing. You make it sound like a bad goal, like art has to be boring...but that's another thread.
Crash Station
Member
-Atmosphere can be just as important as gameplay.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
-A games base mechanics should be intuitive. If its a complex game, then you make damn sure the techniques to get through the first hour or so are intuitive and easy to grasp, so you can gradually tutorialize the player.
-If your game has a story, any story at all, hire actual writers! I cannot stress this enough how important this is to me in games I enjoy. Hire writers who know how to write dialogue, and get them in on the process, so that the narrative is f**king paced properly.
-Testing, testing, testing. Don't just use playtesters to find bugs. Observe them. Where are they having difficulty? Where are they having fun? Analyze these parts.
-Sometimes color is nice. In fact, most of the time color is nice. Brown is a color. Use it like any other.
-If a game's base mechanics support multiplayer, than it makes a nice afterthought. But unless a game is built from the ground up to be online (see: MAG, TF2), than your campaign should be your priority.
-Gore and tits are not mature. Well written storylines and gameplay that interacts with them to reinforce deep and complex themes are mature. Shattered Memories is one of the most mature games I have ever played.
My favorite games of all time (Super Mario Galaxy, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Myst III, Portal, TF2, and HL2) all meet the above criteria that apply to them. Note that I didn't say the best games, or even the most raw fun, but the games that really resonated with me. These are the philosophies that make a game incredible for me.
-If your game has a story, any story at all, hire actual writers! I cannot stress this enough how important this is to me in games I enjoy. Hire writers who know how to write dialogue, and get them in on the process, so that the narrative is f**king paced properly.
-Testing, testing, testing. Don't just use playtesters to find bugs. Observe them. Where are they having difficulty? Where are they having fun? Analyze these parts.
-Sometimes color is nice. In fact, most of the time color is nice. Brown is a color. Use it like any other.
-If a game's base mechanics support multiplayer, than it makes a nice afterthought. But unless a game is built from the ground up to be online (see: MAG, TF2), than your campaign should be your priority.
-Gore and tits are not mature. Well written storylines and gameplay that interacts with them to reinforce deep and complex themes are mature. Shattered Memories is one of the most mature games I have ever played.
My favorite games of all time (Super Mario Galaxy, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Myst III, Portal, TF2, and HL2) all meet the above criteria that apply to them. Note that I didn't say the best games, or even the most raw fun, but the games that really resonated with me. These are the philosophies that make a game incredible for me.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
thomaser said:
I was going to post this. For me, this is the number one thing.
The developer of Cave Story said that he spent a long time fine-tuning the game mechanics to make sure it was enjoyable to play, and that really stuck with me. Gameplay needs to come before the scenario does.
However, it's true that there is no "game design philosophy" that applies to everything. I can't imagine Silent Hill 2 being made with that, and of course there are others - but I would say that the majority of games would benefit from making the game before the story.
People bring up saving a lot, but what exactly do you mean? I think being able to save normally at any point would take away from a lot of games. I don't disagree at all with letting the player save at any time so they can take a break, but I think that that idea would work better with most games if those saves were like "temporary" saves, like how Fire Emblem does it.