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[Randy Lanzarote]

I got kinda spoiled on the next episode whilst on the YT home page, so I guess I'll be avoiding that until Monday evening.

And every time I come back to this thread, someone is bragging how they've seen the episode.


I guess..... hide in the cupboard under the stairs? :/



I'm kinda surprised that people are so open about downloading and viewing copyrighted material with no consequence? I mean, I'm sure that plenty do, especially those outside the US, but at least there's no way to tell when the episode has aired. #HypocriteWarning

 

[The Artisan]

It wouldnt matter if it was her or not. You dont set up that question over multiple scenes in multiple seasons and resolve it after the character is dead.

pretty much what FiggyCal said. I wasn't paying attention to the r+l=j hints or at the very least just the hints tha Jon isn't who everybody thinks he was. So when he died, I thought that was it.

 

[soundscream]

I forgot that was even a thing after Ned died. My thought was: "guess we'll never know".

Ok you couldn't see the writing on the wall, but it was glowing in neon for those of us who noticed they were bringing it up multiple times.

 

[Jombie]

Can't wait for tomorrow night. Much beer and shitty food will be ingested.

 

[The Artisan]

Ok you couldn't see the writing on the wall, but it was glowing in neon for those of us who noticed they were bringing it up multiple times.

not all of us are fortunate to have 20/20 vision when watching Thrones like you.

 

[soundscream]

pretty much what FiggyCal said. I wasn't paying attention to the r+l=j hints or at the very least just the hints tha Jon isn't who everybody thinks he was. So when he died, I thought that was it.

Dude......
Its like you arent even reading what Im writing. I never knew about r+l=j until before season 6, but I knew Jon was coming back because they specifically made an issue of the question of who's Jons mother. If it was another charcter who had not been mentioned they still needed to answer it otherwise they wasted time and scenes talking about it. And it wouldn't get resolved if he was dead because it would then be pointless.

 

[The Artisan]

Dude......
Its like you arent even reading what Im writing. I never knew about r+l=j until before season 6, but I knew Jon was coming back because they specifically made an issue of the question of who's Jons mother. If it was another charcter who had not been mentioned they still needed to answer it otherwise they wasted time and scenes talking about it. And it wouldn't get resolved if he was dead because it would then be pointless.

I understand what you're saying, what I'm saying is that you are better than picking up hints and clues than I am. It wasn't until after he was resurrected that I started paying more attention to every angle of the show to see what'd happen next.

 

[soundscream]

not all of us are fortunate to have 20/20 vision when watching Thrones like you.

Its not 20/20 vision its understanding that it would be poor narrative structure to not answer the question they clearly set up.

 

[Heshinsi]

Book alert

Thanks, I've never seen anything that suggested that Dany can't have kids, only that Drogo won't get better till the sun rises in the west.

 

[The Artisan]

Its not 20/20 vision its understanding that it would be poor narrative structure to not answer the question they clearly set up.

if it's not 20/20 vision then it also wasn't glowing neon writing on the wall (I was just responding to your metaphor)

and again man, it wasn't that clear to me. i wasn't picking up on all the subtle hints and clues, I thought it was game over for Jon and if anything if there were significant hints about his mother they could still be revealed, just with him dead. I always thought it'd be Ned who comes and tells Jon about his mom because that was the promise made in season 1, that never happened, so I had no reason to expect anything more with Jon the character himself happening.

 

[soundscream]

I understand what you're saying, what I'm saying is that you are better than picking up hints and clues than I am. It wasn't until after he was resurrected that I started paying more attention to every angle of the show to see what'd happen next.

No you dont.

Hints and clues = Jons mother is Lyanna

Bad stortelling = make a big deal out of the question of who his mother is and then just never answer it.

 

[Bisnic]

I feel like this need to be posted every 15 mins, damn.

Note: Any leak discussion is prohibited in the thread and bannable. This includes linking to sources, vague hints, posting spoilers outright, etc... Find somewhere else on the internet to have this conversation if it appeals to you.

 

[The Artisan]

No you dont.

Hints and clues = Jons mother is Lyanna

How many times do I gotta tell you I had no idea that this was gonna be the case? I really did not until it was spoiled for me. so what am I misunderstanding here?

Bad stortelling = make a big deal out of the question of who his mother is and then just never answer it.

like I just said though the question could still be answered even if the character was killed off..

 

[soundscream]

How many times do I gotta tell you I had no idea that this was gonna be the case? I really did not until it was spoiled for me.

like I just said though the question could still be answered even if the character was killed off..

My man I feel like im talking to a brick wall here so im dropping it.

 

[Vashetti]

like I just said though the question could still be answered even if the character was killed off..

Hey that bastard character that was killed off, his mother was Lyanna Stark.

Oh cool. Who cares though, he's dead.

 

[The Artisan]

My man I feel like im talking to a brick wall here so im dropping it.

i'd really like to see eye to eye with you but if you're getting tired of it that's fine and we could move on.

Hey that bastard character that was killed off, his mother was Lyanna Stark.

Oh cool. Who cares though, he's dead.

yah...and by the mortality rate of this series, how many significant people will even still be alive to reach to this news when it is revealed to the whole world anyway?

 

[soundscream]

Hey that bastard character that was killed off, his mother was Lyanna Stark.

Oh cool. Who cares though, he's dead.

Nothing to do with Lyanna. Could have been Wyla like Ned lied to Robert about, could have been some book charcter some people thought it could be. Point being you dont set up a question, support it over multiple seasons then either dont answer it or answer it when the charcter is dead and it serves no purpose.

 

[duckroll]

Who else wants to get banned?

 

[The Artisan]

Nothing to do with Lyanna. Could have been Wyla like Ned lied to Robert about, could have been some book charcter some people thought it could be. Point being you dont set up a question, support it over multiple seasons then either dont answer it or answer it when the charcter is dead and it serves no purpose.

the purpose would just be the news coming to light. the starks (if they are still alive) coming to the realization that their half brother is their cousin, Dany coming to the realization that all this time she was not the last Targaryen

it is of course better to have the character in question still alive for these reactions, just like it would've been for Ned, Cat, Robb, Tywin, Olenna i.e several dead characters alive to react to the news but they're all dead, and death is something Jon was susceptible and succumbed to too.

 

[Vashetti]

Who else wants to get banned?

 

[KHlover]

Are you guys afraid someone will feel encouraged to post Episode 4 spoilers if you don't dogpile those who simply state they watched the episode (without spoiling anything)? The dogpiling is even more disruptive to the thread, imo.

EDIT: Ah, we have a mod in here now. Good.

 

[soundscream]

the purpose would just be the news coming to light. the starks (if they are still alive) coming to the realization that their half brother is their cousin, Dany coming to the realization that all this time she was not the last Targaryen

it is of course better to have the character in question still alive for these reactions, just like it would've been for Ned, Cat, Robb, Tywin, Olenna i.e several dead characters alive to react to the news but they're all dead, and death is something Jon was susceptible and succumbed to too.

You keep bringing this back to R+L=J

these are 2 post I made on the night of the season 5 finale, months before I even heard of R+L=J.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=167871089&postcount=14202
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=167901570&postcount=14590

 

[duckroll]

Are you guys afraid someone will feel encouraged to post Episode 4 spoilers if you don't dogpile those who simply state they watched the episode (without spoiling anything)? The dogpiling is even more disruptive to the thread, imo.

I agree that dogpiling is stupid. Instead they should have PM'd a mod. To be clear, leak talk is not allowed in here including saying "I watched the leak episode", which not only violates the no leak agreement, but also basically amounts to admitting to piracy.

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

like I just said though the question could still be answered even if the character was killed off..

Well you could do that but who would care? That information would have zero impact on the story if Jon stayed dead.

I know ASOIAF/GOT is all about subverting expectation but there is a limit. You don't set up a mystery over multiple seasons only for the final reveal to have zero implications on the story.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Duckroll is our Stannis.

 

[duckroll]

Duckroll is our Stannis.

No I'm your Ned Stark. I'm literally the guy who didn't want to be here and was happily doing something else. Then someone came up to me and told me that there were a bunch of deserters who just got caught, so I have stop what I was doing to go chop some heads off. It sucked.

 

[soundscream]

Duckroll is our Stannis.

Thats not a complement and can be taken as a threat!

 

[The Artisan]

You keep bringing this back to R+L=J

these are 2 post I made on the night of the season 5 finale, months before I even heard of R+L=J.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=167871089&postcount=14202
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=167901570&postcount=14590

whether this has to do with r+l=j or not, either way, I was not thinking about Jon's parentage at all throughout my first watch of the series. I thought he was Ned's bastard through and through and never thought much of who his mother could be. From Ned saying "next time we see each other we'll talk about her" to Jon's stabbing. I thought that was the end of him.

Which reinforces my point that you're better at picking up hints and clues than myself and some others. What else is there?

Well you could do that but who would care? That information would have zero impact on the story if Jon stayed dead.

I know ASOIAF/GOT is all about subverting expectation but there is a limit. You don't set up a mystery over multiple seasons only for the final reveal to have zero implications on the story.

how many significant people are going to be alive to react to r+l=j anyway?

 

[The One and Done™]

Who else wants to get banned?

duckroll Threadborn,the first of his name, true King of the Juniors and First Posters, Protector of the Off-Topic, Regulator of the great Forum Sea, The Prince that was Promised, Azora Ahai.

 

[soundscream]

whether this has to do with r+l=j or not, either way, I was not thinking about Jon's parentage at all throughout my first watch of the series. I thought he was Ned's bastard through and through and never thought much of who his mother could be. From Ned saying "next time we see each other we'll talk about her" to Jon's stabbing. I thought that was the end of him.

Which reinforces my point that you're better at picking up hints and clues than myself and some others. What else is there?


how many significant people are going to be alive to react to r+l=j anyway?

I mean when Ned and Jon split up on the kings road, it was so obvious that this was going to be a huge plot point. The way it was shot with the 2 of them having this private moment, Ned leaving and Jon waiting at the crossroads before starting his new life. It was story telling 101.

Then you get Jon telling Sam about his hang up on not knowing his mother.

And there are many other scenes.

Point being Jon was set up by season 5 as being one of the 2 main charcters. I know everyone likes to bring up Neds death but he was never the main charcter in this story, it was a head fake the entire time.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I agree that dogpiling is stupid. Instead they should have PM'd a mod. To be clear, leak talk is not allowed in here including saying "I watched the leak episode", which not only violates the no leak agreement, but also basically amounts to admitting to piracy.

I mean, we had a couple of people that did PM a mod. Have you deleted posts here?

 

[The Artisan]

I mean when Ned and Jon split up on the kings road, it was so obvious that this was going to be a huge plot point. The way it was shot with the 2 of them having this private moment, Ned leaving and Jon waiting at the crossroads before starting his new life. It was story telling 101.

Then you get Jon telling Sam about his hang up on not knowing his mother.

And there are many other scenes.

Point being Jon was set up by season 5 as being one of the 2 main charcters. I know everyone likes to bring up Neds death but he was never the main charcter in this story, it was a head fake the entire time.

honestly, it wasn't that obvious to me. All I saw was a father consoling his son born out of wedlock before parting ways. I did not think too deep into it and I did not think Jon's mother and overall parentage would become one of if not the most important plot point of the whole show.

Ned Stark was the protagonist in season 1. Sean Bean's name always appeared first before everyone else's.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Sir BronsonLee ....

Bring me his head.

 

[iShouldGoPro]

Yup, Jon and Dany have always been endgame material. They have never once been in danger on screen.

You don't kill off every character to serve the "nobody is safe! XD" crowd. It's not satisfying storytelling.

Wait I'm confused by this.

Didn't Jon get daggered in the dark?
Didn't he fight a battle with a white walker and wights?
Didn't he fight against the wildlings at castle black?
Didn't he fight against the oathbreakers at Craster's Keep?
Didn't he fight against Ramsay Bolton's army?

I'm confused about how he's never in danger

 

[ComputerBlue]

honestly, it wasn't that obvious to me. All I saw was a father consoling his son born out of wedlock before parting ways. I did not think too deep into it and I did not think Jon's mother and overall parentage would become one of if not the most important plot point of the whole show.

Ned Stark was the protagonist in season 1. Sean Bean's name always appeared first before everyone else's.

Everyone loves to say how obvious things were in hindsight. No one knew Jon was a main a few episodes in, not any more so than a handful of other prospects and no one knew Ned was head fake either. Not that early.

 

[soundscream]

honestly, it wasn't that obvious to me. All I saw was a father consoling his son born out of wedlock before parting ways. I did not think too deep into it and I did not think Jon's mother and overall parentage would become one of if not the most important plot point of the whole show.

Ned Stark was the protagonist in season 1. Sean Bean's name always appeared first before everyone else's.

If you were to go back and rewatch the show now you can see the foundation being set from the beginning for Jon and Danny.

Sean Bean was the biggest star on the show thats why he gets first billing. That doesnt mean he is the main charcter, this is evident in many films where a big star can have a bit part and be mentioned ahead of more important characters. William Hurt was top billing for the Dune mini series on SciFi and was only in 1/3 of it.

 

[Ros8105]

Who else wants to get banned?

Spoiler

Uhh, This is a good reaction gif right?

 

[The Artisan]

Everyone loves to say how obvious things were in hindsight. No one knew Jon was a main a few episodes in, not any more so than a handful of other prospects and no one knew Ned was head fake either. Not that early.

I think the average viewr was probably picking up on the hints, though.

If you were to go back and rewatch the show now you can see the foundation being set from the beginning for Jon and Danny.

Sean Bean was the biggest star on the show thats why he gets first billing. That doesnt mean he is the main charcter, this is evident in many films where a big star can have a bit part and be mentioned ahead of more important characters. William Hurt was top billing for the Dune mini series on SciFi and was only in 1/3 of it.

Of course now looking back it does make sense, and ever since his return I've been paying more attention to what could and could not happen but everything beforehand; I couldn't see his death and resurrection coming.

 

[soundscream]

Everyone loves to say how obvious things were in hindsight. No one knew Jon was a main a few episodes in, not any more so than a handful of other prospects and no one knew Ned was head fake either. Not that early.

Never said it was obvious. I was fooled. But after 5 seasons we knew who the 2 main charcters were. Danny with the dragons and Jon vs the Night King.

 

[televator]

No I'm your Ned Stark. I'm literally the guy who didn't want to be here and was happily doing something else. Then someone came up to me and told me that there were a bunch of deserters who just got caught, so I have stop what I was doing to go chop some heads off. It sucked.

The man who passes the sentence should swing the ban hammer.

 

[FiggyCal]

Everyone loves to say how obvious things were in hindsight. No one knew Jon was a main a few episodes in, not any more so than a handful of other prospects and no one knew Ned was head fake either. Not that early.

Exactly. I thought Ned was the main guy. Oops. Okay Robb is... nope that can't be right. Jon Snow? What? I'll go with it... And... he's dead.

 

[Wvrs]

Well you could do that but who would care? That information would have zero impact on the story if Jon stayed dead.

I know ASOIAF/GOT is all about subverting expectation but there is a limit. You don't set up a mystery over multiple seasons only for the final reveal to have zero implications on the story.

I think the initial draw of the series for me was that it's a total subversion of typical fantasy tropes that have been repeated ad infinitum since Tolkien. When I first read the Red Wedding, I actually threw the book aside and couldn't bring myself to pick it back up for days. No other series has ever done that to me.

So it's a little disappointing we seem to be reverting to clichés here, especially in the last few seasons. I'm hoping for a shock with the endgame, like the WWs being a red herring and Daenarys succumbing to Targaryen madness and being the ultimate villain. If it's just a simple good vs. evil finale, I'll be disappointed.

 

[ComputerBlue]

I think the average viewr was probably picking up on the hints, though.
Of course now looking back it does make sense, and ever since his return I've been paying more attention to what could and could not happen but everything beforehand; I couldn't see his death and resurrection coming.

Exactly, now, but back then to assume Jon was a final 2 and Ned was done for by seasons end, no way.

Never said it was obvious. I was fooled. But after 5 seasons we knew who the 2 main charcters were. Danny with the dragons and Jon vs the Night King.

I'm not pointing at you specifically, just saying in general people love to say how obvious some things were, but often only in hindsight and definitely not Jon and Ned. Not at the time of their convo. You can tell they're important, that much is apparent from the first episode, but to know who would still be around as a main and why would be gone, there were no hints to that at all.

Exactly. I thought Ned was the main guy. Oops. Okay Robb is... nope that can't be right. Jon Snow? What? I'll go with it... And... he's dead.

lol pretty much

 

[Heshinsi]

Wait I'm confused by this.

Didn't Jon get daggered in the dark?
Didn't he fight a battle with a white walker and wights?
Didn't he fight against the wildlings at castle black?
Didn't he fight against the oathbreakers at Craster's Keep?
Didn't he fight against Ramsay Bolton's army?

I'm confused about how he's never in danger

That last one was never in doubt. Did you not see hundreds of arrows magically just fall all around him? Dude was protected.

 

[Fuzzy]

The man who passes the sentence should swing the ban hammer.

Has Cornballer ever gotten his hands dirty or is he like Joffrey?

 

[ComputerBlue]

When did that happened? The only thing I remember is the witch telling her when Drogo would get better. Maybe I'm misremembering :/

Dany tells Jorah she'll never have children again in the show

I don't remember this but interesting to know.

 

[SDBurton]

No I'm your Ned Stark. I'm literally the guy who didn't want to be here and was happily doing something else. Then someone came up to me and told me that there were a bunch of deserters who just got caught, so I have stop what I was doing to go chop some heads off. It sucked.

You're not Ned, you're our King in the North!

 

[FiggyCal]

I think the initial draw of the series for me was that it's a total subversion of typical fantasy tropes that have been repeated ad infinitum since Tolkien. When I first read the Red Wedding, I actually threw the book aside and couldn't bring myself to pick it back up for days. No other series has ever done that to me.

So it's a little disappointing we seem to be reverting to clichés here, especially in the last few seasons. I'm hoping for a shock with the endgame, like the WWs being a red herring and Daenarys succumbing to Targaryen madness and being the ultimate villain. If it's just a simple good vs. evil finale, I'll be disappointed.

Not every season had a subversive twist. Like 2 and 4 were pretty straight forward -- there were shocking moments, but the story telling was pretty traditional as I remember it. Maybe we'll see something like that this season.

 

[TimeEffect]

I never really considered that Dany could be the final villain (outside of the Night King)

Her anger/cruelty seems to be teased here and there.

 

[Vashetti]

Wait I'm confused by this.

Didn't Jon get daggered in the dark?
Didn't he fight a battle with a white walker and wights?
Didn't he fight against the wildlings at castle black?
Didn't he fight against the oathbreakers at Craster's Keep?
Didn't he fight against Ramsay Bolton's army?

I'm confused about how he's never in danger

Read what I said above. Yes, dangerous situations but I've never been scared about Jon making it out. Or anytime Dany was in peril.

Because they're both endgame characters.