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[Romars202129]

Thank you to the mods for keeping the book readers on a short leash in here! I don't even get why they want to post in this thread.

.

All old fans want to troll new fans. I'm sure the Lotr people were trolling big time when the movies were running too.
Personally, I read a ton back in jr high, but I never heard of these books before this show, so I can't help thinking it's a little less fair though.

Anyways, got back in, and gotta say, really surprised how much I missed this show.
I was a bit down on in at the end of 3rd season, because of a mixture of being worried it would become a show all about little kids and the 'All black people... call me mommy!' ending, lmao, but even if it does some off things time to time, this show is really really good honestly.
Love it, and it helps this was an especially strong episode.

 

[UrokeJoe]

Got all caught up over the weekend thanks to the marathon HBO2 was running. What a show! Now The waiting...

 

[Indignate]

See, now this confuses me. The spoiler thread started doing this, so when I clicked on this thread, and I see the big red banner, I immediately thought I was in the spoiler thread. Do it in only one thread...if you do it in both it doesn't server it's purpose as effectively.

It's already in the thread title, putting it at the top of each page just seems silly.

I haven't seen the other thread, but is it also called "Game of Thrones"? Would probably help if they renamed it to A Song of Ice & Fire. Book readers will know what it is and casual fans of the show probably won't have a clue and stay away from it thinking it's something completely different.

Or we can leave it how it is. I mean, I know how to read thread titles/subscribe so whatever.

 

[Einchy]

Man, this was probably the best shot episode yet. Did they get a new cinematographer or something?

 

[tino]

I have a feeling that Jaime and Brienne will be hooking up some time soon. They respect and understand each other from their time in captivity, both are kickass fighters, he's saved her a couple times and Cersei is giving Jaime the icy cold shoulder.

TV Brienne is alot more "beautiful" than the book Brienne so I would be ok with the clumsy sex. Is there a GoT porno yet?

 

[Steelyuhas]

Man, this was probably the best shot episode yet. Did they get a new cinematographer or something?

They use a few cinematographers, I believe last night was Jonathan Freeman, who previously did a pair of season 2 eps and a pair of season 3 eps.

The answer to your inquiry though is probably just HBO throwing more money than ever before at the show.

 

[Demon Ice]

Lol, I know!

I had a real hard time with the names up until recently when I re-watched all episodes for the 3rd or 4th time. Even now I still forget some, just last night I refereed to Robb Starks wife as Jayne, haha. Someone corrected me and I forgot already, Talia, Tullia? No clue.

Ah yeah Talisa. Totally forgot about Sansa's friend Jeyne too.

The HBO Go player is just dreadful. It stuttered so many times and completely froze a few.

Comcast Xfinity player has similar issues, pretty disappointing really.

 

[Cornballer]

See, now this confuses me. The spoiler thread started doing this, so when I clicked on this thread, and I see the big red banner, I immediately thought I was in the spoiler thread. Do it in only one thread...if you do it in both it doesn't server it's purpose as effectively.

Yup. Let's post the warning in the other thread and not in this one. Thanks.

 

[Zyae]

Damn, he did say that, didn't he? Wow. Prophetic. I feel terrible for Robb, and I do hope that there's some justice for the Red Wedding, but he really did foul that whole thing up.

I dont really feel at all for Robb. He was an idiot. He was warned about the dangers of breaking his vows, he was taught to respect his word, vows, and honor. And he threw away his kingdom and life over "love"

 

[demosthenes]

Got to watch it tonight. I'm really excited for this season. Premiere didn't let me down!

 

[Ultimadrago]

I dont really feel at all for Robb. He was an idiot. He was warned about the dangers of breaking his vows, he was taught to respect his word, vows, and honor. And he threw away his kingdom and life over "love"

Yep. Got what was coming to him.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I dont really feel at all for Robb. He was an idiot. He was warned about the dangers of breaking his vows, he was taught to respect his word, vows, and honor. And he threw away his kingdom and life over "love"

Yep. Got what was coming to him.

This is weird to me.

I can understand the idea of not liking the character, or even House Stark in general, but the idea that the Red Wedding is appropriate retribution because Robb fell in love and made a stupid decision just completely blows me away. We've seen other people in this series breaking their vows, and while it can be argued that those were lesser offenses, all of then should constitute death at the very least. Two oathbreakers were featured in this very episode.

Once again, I'm going to go back to Guest Right. If it turns out that something horrible happens to Walder Frey because of what he did, will that be unjustified because Robb broke his promise?

 

[Demon Ice]

Once again, I'm going to go back to Guest Right. If it turns out that something horrible happens to Walder Frey because of what he did, will that be unjustified because Robb broke his promise?

Nope. Walder and every other Frey that had a hand in the Red Wedding absolutely deserve every form of karmic retribution that hopefully comes their way. Hindsight is 20/20, I'm sure Robb knew there would be repercussions to breaking his oath to the Freys but nothing like that. The Red Wedding was completely unexpected and completely unforgivable. Robb was just an inexperienced leader in a very, very cutthroat world, in which his family's focus on honor has no place.

 

[Zyae]

This is weird to me.

I can understand the idea of not liking the character, or even House Stark in general, but the idea that the Red Wedding is appropriate retribution because Robb fell in love and made a stupid decision just completely blows me away. We've seen other people in this series breaking their vows, and while it can be argued that those were lesser offenses, all of then should constitute death at the very least. Two oathbreakers were featured in this very episode.

Once again, I'm going to go back to Guest Right. If it turns out that something horrible happens to Walder Frey because of what he did, will that be unjustified because Robb broke his promise?

oh im not saying that the red wedding was deserved, but hes also an idiot. Walder Frey is a piece of shit however.

 

[Qvoth]

what was the reason for daenerys invading mereen again?

oh and #fucktheking
damn the hound was fuckin great this ep

 

[Demon Ice]

what was the reason for daenerys invading mereen again?

They use slaves and she wants to free slaves. Not sure if there's more to it than that.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

what was the reason for daenerys invading mereen again?

oh and #fucktheking
damn the hound was fuckin great this ep

It's crazy to me that The Hound has ended up being one of my favorite characters in this entire series.

As a friend of mine said: "Arya and The Hound is the best buddycop movie ever."

 

[Peagles]

It's crazy to me that The Hound has ended up being one of my favorite characters in this entire series.

As a friend of mine said: "Arya and The Hound is the best buddycop movie ever."

Same here, but pretty much anyone who has an interesting back story becomes a favourite of mine. Not that there's many, mind.

 

[Ultimadrago]

This is weird to me.

I can understand the idea of not liking the character, or even House Stark in general, but the idea that the Red Wedding is appropriate retribution because Robb fell in love and made a stupid decision just completely blows me away. We've seen other people in this series breaking their vows, and while it can be argued that those were lesser offenses, all of then should constitute death at the very least. Two oathbreakers were featured in this very episode.

Once again, I'm going to go back to Guest Right. If it turns out that something horrible happens to Walder Frey because of what he did, will that be unjustified because Robb broke his promise?

It's hardly about even retribution. It's Game of Thrones; crimes remain unpunished and minor slips cost greatly. It's on deliberately taking an action with full knowledge it could hinder relationships that they could not afford to shake. I'm not speaking of the Red Wedding as an "equalizer" of Robb's actions, but as an acknowledged negative consequence. In other words, blatantly do something idiotic (especially when regarding the already breaking relationship the Starks had with the Freys), do not scratch your head at the comeuppance in the form of negative consequence(s) regardless of degree.

Consequences may work as a domino effect. If Walder Frey falls due to his actions, that will be of his own accord. Morality will not fall into the equation. a.k.a. It won't be unjustified. It'll be what it is.

 

[Busaiku]

Has it ever been explained why Stannis didn't use shadow babies to kill Robb (when he was alive) and Joffrey?

 

[Qvoth]

Has it ever been explained why Stannis didn't use shadow babies to kill Robb (when he was alive) and Joffrey?

the ritual shortens his life, he can't do it too many times

 

[Chie Satonaka]

It's hardly about even retribution. It's Game of Thrones; crimes remain unpunished and minor slips cost greatly. It's on deliberately taking an action with full knowledge it could hinder relationships that they could not afford to shake. I'm not speaking of the Red Wedding as an "equalizer" of Robb's actions, but as an acknowledged negative consequence. In other words, blatantly do something idiotic (especially when regarding the already breaking relationship the Starks had with the Freys), do not scratch your head at the comeuppance in the form of negative consequences regardless of degree.

Consequences may work as a domino effect. If Walder Frey falls due to his actions, that will be of his own accord. Morality will not fall into the equation. a.k.a. It won't be unjustified. It'll be what it is.

I think it's a bit more complex than that. Robb made a mistake, and nobody could have seen the Red Wedding coming. Further, there's the added wildcard of House Lannister in the mix. While I think Walder got great pleasure in fucking Robb over like that, I'd be willing to bet there's no WAY he would have rolled the dice on Guest Right being broken if Tywin Lannister wouldn't have made it very attractive for him to have done so.

I'm not saying that Robb didn't deserve some sort of returbution, or that he made a good decision. He did not, and I figured he was going to pay for it with his life. However, the Red Wedding went way beyond the pale, and it's weird to me to see people shrug that off like, "Eh, whatever, it's the world they live in."

In any case, that's my hangup, it doesn't have to be everyone's.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Has it ever been explained why Stannis didn't use shadow babies to kill Robb (when he was alive) and Joffrey?

the ritual shortens his life, he can't do it too many times

Yeah Melisandre mentions in S3 that Stannis doesn't have the strength to make another shadow baby.

 

[demolitio]

Has it ever been explained why Stannis didn't use shadow babies to kill Robb (when he was alive) and Joffrey?

Let me guess, you want Gandalf to just save the time and use the eagles for everything too, right!?!?!?

But seriously though, what Qvorth said. Maybe Stannis thought that was too nice of a death for Joffrey as well, because we all would be pretty bummed if it was that basic.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

All these people in Reddit arguing about old Daario vs new Daario. Kind of makes me glad I haven't read the books so I don't have this unattainable expectation of what the character is "supposed" to be like.

 

[Indignate]

But seriously though, what Qvorth said. Maybe Stannis thought that was too nice of a death for Joffrey as well, because we all would be pretty bummed if it was that basic.

It's also a different circumstance with Joffrey. Doesn't really stop the Lannisters from keeping the Throne in check (it would go to Tommon). When you're going for the King, you probably want to make sure everybody knows you're the one doing it. An assassination would probably be seen as less honorable (nobody really respects Jaime) and he can't really just expect to walk in to King's Landing just cuz he offed Joffrey with dark magic.

So really, no point for him to waste it.

 

[Madness]

Thank you to the mods for keeping the book readers on a short leash in here! I don't even get why they want to post in this thread.

Aside from that, those wild-ling cannibals were terrifying looking, the scars and just how big they were in relation to the other wild-lings, and of course the fact they were BBQ'ing someones arm helps the scary factor.

What if they're original show watchers who understand the passion that the show elicits? Sometimes it's nice to talk about the show, and only the show, without contrasting it with details from the book. Now that I've read the books, my speculating days are over, but why wouldn't I post here with fellow show watchers? How does me having read the books after last season, change my thoughts on what a great season opener that was or really loving the chemistry between the Hound and Arya? Of course it's much harder now separating the two mediums, but as long as you realize what thread it is, there shouldn't be a problem.

Edit: on a related note, did anyone post the top posters from last season's no book spoilers thread?

 

[Panzon]

God I missed this show. The season opener doesnt dissapoint and Arya is the best

 

[Triple U]

All the Tywin hyping is sickening. Dude isn't nearly as calculating or cunning as you all are trying to put on. He's gotten his ass handed to him several times since the show kicked off and only "won the war" because he lucked up.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Just finished watching the first episode. Was AWESOME!

dem chickens

I missed this show

 

[Pathos]

It was a pretty solid episode. Loved the last 10 or so minutes lol.

 

[Cyan]

All the Tywin hyping is sickening. Dude isn't nearly as calculating or cunning as you all are trying to put on. He's gotten his ass handed to him several times since the show kicked off and only "won the war" because he lucked up.

Motherfucker has a whole song written about a time he went out and obliterated an entire fucking noble house because they got out of line.

And he pretty much just did the same shit to the Starks, who were the major family of the North.

There's a certain point where you can't just call it luck anymore.

 

[B.O.O.M]

I just want starks to kick some ass sooner or later...it's long over due

speaking of kicking ass I like the new prince character. He looks menacing..in a good way

 

[Triple U]

Motherfucker has a whole song written about a time he went out and obliterated an entire fucking noble house because they got out of line.

And he pretty much just did the same shit to the Starks, who were the major family of the North.

There's a certain point where you can't just call it luck anymore.

The Targeyens? You mean the part where he slaughtered the remaining children and women after Ned/Robert won the crown? As Joffrey said, who was it hiding under Casterly Rock when the real fighting was going on?

Cersei was way more instrumental in the Lannisters coming to power like they did. If she doesn't have the King killed at that exact moment none of this is possible.

The Starks downfall had alot more to do with their own actions than it did anything Tywin set in motion. He was getting his ass handed to him b a 18-19 year old boy

 

[demolitio]

Motherfucker has a whole song written about a time he went out and obliterated an entire fucking noble house because they got out of line.

And he pretty much just did the same shit to the Starks, who were the major family of the North.

There's a certain point where you can't just call it luck anymore.

He's bribed the gods then!

Honestly, he's a guy I love and hate at the same time. I hate his evil actions, but respect the tactician he is. He knows how to play the game better than everyone else, although there comes a point where you do too many big moves and you end up setting yourself up for a fall in the future.

He's a badass when it comes to politics. It's just too bad his badassery is used to defend his shitty family.

 

[Indignate]

The Targeyens? You mean the part where he slaughtered the remaining children and women after Ned/Robert won the crown? As Joffrey said, who was it hiding under Casterly Rock when the real fighting was going on?

Cersei was way more instrumental in the Lannisters coming to power like they did. If she doesn't have the King killed at that exact moment none of this is possible.

That's not what Rains of Castamere is about.

Cersei gives a decent explanation in Season 3. Song sort of explains itself too.

Also, let's not pretend that Joffrey is a beacon of intellect.

 

[Vashetti]

The Targeyens? You mean the part where he slaughtered the remaining children and women after Ned/Robert won the crown? As Joffrey said, who was it hiding under Casterly Rock when the real fighting was going on?

Cersei was way more instrumental in the Lannisters coming to power like they did. If she doesn't have the King killed at that exact moment none of this is possible.

The Starks downfall had alot more to do with their own actions than it did anything Tywin set in motion. He was getting his ass handed to him b a 18-19 year old boy

No, he wiped out House Rain of Castamere because they "rebelled" and tried to become the richest/strongest house over the Lannisters.

Just as the Tyrells are doing now.

 

[kellycandthedragons]

That's not what Rains of Castamere is about.

Cersei gives a decent explanation in Season 3. Song sort of explains itself too.

Also, let's not pretend that Joffrey is a beacon of intellect.

Eeeexactly. The man's done it three times now. It's kind of his M.O.

Reynes, Targaryens, Starks.

 

[Honey Bunny]

This is weird to me.

I can understand the idea of not liking the character, or even House Stark in general, but the idea that the Red Wedding is appropriate retribution because Robb fell in love and made a stupid decision just completely blows me away. We've seen other people in this series breaking their vows, and while it can be argued that those were lesser offenses, all of then should constitute death at the very least. Two oathbreakers were featured in this very episode.

Once again, I'm going to go back to Guest Right. If it turns out that something horrible happens to Walder Frey because of what he did, will that be unjustified because Robb broke his promise?

In the world in which he livesd, and the position he held, he should have been prepared to sacrifice personal pleasures for his responsibilities. I don't think the severity of the punishment needs to be justified, just that there was one and it was created through circumstances he put himself in.

...Though, when it comes to the severity, think how many people may be worse off under the Lannisters now, because of his impulsive actions with a girl. It wasn't just offending an old geezer that was his crime when he chose her to marry.

We've seen the Lannisters take arranged marriages on the chin, and we most recently saw Jamie disavowed because he refused to set selfish motivations aside and go to Casterly Rock. A big theme in this show is the sacrifice one has to make to achieve one's goals, whether that's setting your responsibilities aside to pursue love, morality aside to pursue revenge, or companionship and compassion aside to pursue power. I don't think Rob could have been allowed to carry on in the manner he did, having chosen to pursue love. That's just not how his world works.

 

[Triple U]

That's not what Rains of Castamere is about.

Cersei gives a decent explanation in Season 3. Song sort of explains itself too.

Also, let's not pretend that Joffrey is a beacon of intellect.

Ah, thats what you're on about. I just read over that situation and it doesn't seem to be anything special. Stopping a rebellion from a house that you have dominion over isn't worth writing home for.

Joffrey isn't intelligent but it doesn't take intelligence to figure out someone who's hiding from a war...

 

[Indignate]

Ah, thats what you're on about. I just read over that situation and it doesn't seem to be anything special. Stopping a rebellion from a house that you have dominion over isn't worth writing home for.

Joffrey isn't intelligent but it doesn't take intelligence to figure out someone who's hiding from a war...

I mean, Joffrey wasn't even born yet. Unless people have specifically told him so, which we have no reason to believe why anybody would, he's just saying what he thinks he knows.

Kids don't know about war, much less how to wage one.

 

[Cyan]

Ah, thats what you're on about. I just read over that situation and it doesn't seem to be anything special. Stopping a rebellion from a house that you have dominion over isn't worth writing home for.

He crushed the rebellion and executed everyone in the family. The point of the song is that there are no more Reynes because the whole noble house is just gone.

Point is, destroying the Starks wasn't his first rodeo.

 

[Triple U]

I mean, Joffrey wasn't even born yet. Unless people have specifically told him so, which we have no reason to believe why anybody would, he's just saying what he thinks he knows.

Kids don't know about war, much less how to wage one.

I won't divulge too much into things not in the show explicitly(even though this kinda is) but Tywin's action during the war has been well documented. He sat at casterly rock hiding behind a fortress of lannister men until the victor was decided. And he then did his best to kiss Robert's ass and show favor.

 

[Moff]

Ah, thats what you're on about. I just read over that situation and it doesn't seem to be anything special. Stopping a rebellion from a house that you have dominion over isn't worth writing home for.

Joffrey isn't intelligent but it doesn't take intelligence to figure out someone who's hiding from a war...

but isnt exactly that calculating and cunning? hiding from the war?
he might not be bold, but he is calculating and cunning.

he made the right moves at the right time his whole life, which is why his family rules the realm and he is the true ruler behind the boy king.

 

[Nameless]

This is weird to me.

I can understand the idea of not liking the character, or even House Stark in general, but the idea that the Red Wedding is appropriate retribution because Robb fell in love and made a stupid decision just completely blows me away. We've seen other people in this series breaking their vows, and while it can be argued that those were lesser offenses, all of then should constitute death at the very least. Two oathbreakers were featured in this very episode.

Once again, I'm going to go back to Guest Right. If it turns out that something horrible happens to Walder Frey because of what he did, will that be unjustified because Robb broke his promise?

Early in the war Catelyn explained to her son the way in which Tywin mercilessly massacred the Targaryens, hoping would Robb understand the magnitude of the stakes involved. Everything thing he held dear was tied to the war's outcome. Everything. "If you lose your father dies, your brothers and sisters die, we die." Catelyn laid all of this out so plainly Hordor would have gotten it. Robb pretended like he did but would go on to make a one impulsive, selfish, short-sighted, dumbshit decision after another, despite people around him warning against each one. You've seen the show, I don't have to list them. Sufficed to say Robb Stark was an savant in the art of fucking up spectacularly. He often showed little regard for anything other than his emotions in the moment.

A group of friends visit a zoo. One guy in the group says he's going to jump into the lion's pin, he wants to pet one. "Don't be an idiot", his friends scream. "You'll be mauled." Guy jumps in anyway, get's mauled. Do you sympathize with that person because I'm inclined not to? Now imagine his entire group of friends are mauled trying to save him and that guy is Robb Stark. With that said, I do feel sorry for the all the poor unlucky bastards who had the misfortune of following him into battle. Those North Men deserved better.

 

[Qvoth]

did tywin ever found out joffrey is actually jamie's son? can't remember this
i'm pretty sure he knows about jamie and cersei's relationship right?

 

[Vashetti]

Robb should have made an alliance with Stannis.

Stannis gets the crown in return for the safety of the North.

 

[Qvoth]

Robb should have made an alliance with Stannis.

Stannis gets the crown in return for the safety of the North.

nah, stannis isn't that kind of person, he'll never take such a deal
he strikes me as all or nothing guy

 

[Speevy]

did tywin ever found out joffrey is actually jamie's son? can't remember this
i'm pretty sure he knows about jamie and cersei's relationship right?

On the show, Tywin has repeatedly referred to Jaime and Cersei's relationship as "foul rumors". Joffrey referred to his parentage as a nasty rumor to Cersei.

I don't think Joffrey ever addresses Jaime as his father. Last night's episode might be the first time they've shared a conversation. From the show, I got the impression that everyone is aware that it's in their best interest to live the lie.

 

[Moff]

did tywin ever found out joffrey is actually jamie's son? can't remember this
i'm pretty sure he knows about jamie and cersei's relationship right?

well he got the letter like everyone else in the realm.
he calls them disgusting rumors, but I think his discussion with Lady ollenna in season 3 somehow showed that he thinks they are true.
of course he would never lower himself to ever admitting that, even to his closest allies.