Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

Status
Not open for further replies.

Nibel

Member
Oct 18, 2011
27,702
0
0
twitter.com
so going back to the GMAs that started all this, one of the GMA nominees was David Scamell, who is Wainwrights Boyfriend, who tweets things like this

https://twitter.com/VG_Dave/status/259010870137479169



and this one is just for aegies and such just in case they really want to rethink writing about this

It's like an unstoppable train with "0wnage" written on it is riding through the gaming media and destroys everything in its path
 

jim-jam bongs

Member
Dec 5, 2008
20,465
0
715
Emerald City
holy fucking Christ, the condescension and paternalism in that comment is fucking appalling. what the fucking fuck. maybe I should just abandon all hope now and join TruthJunky in cynical town.
 

Stuart444

Member
Jun 29, 2010
9,467
0
645
Scotland
twitter.com
Just checked out that guys twitter. An interesting quote though slightly off topic but on topic when it comes to the way PR like to make sure they get 'favorable' coverage.

David Scammell ‏@VG_Dave
THQ's requesting links to previous coverage of WWE 13 when requesting review code. Hmm.
 

AuthenticM

Member
Mar 2, 2010
22,591
11
0
Has Keighley said anything ever since this debacle started ? I've checked his twitter and he doesn't seem to have mentionned anything at all.
 

crazygambit

Member
Jun 4, 2007
4,928
0
0
That, in talking with us here on GAF this weekend, Stephen realized that his audience isn't quite as vapid as he thought, and being a guy who genuinely wants to write stuff for his audience, he's changed his mind and is now looking into this issue.
I think this is super naive. His firsts post on the matter are his real thoughts on the matter. He's now backflipping because of the backlash he's getting after his original comments on the matter have been posted in the PA article and the RPG Codex one and the story isn't blowing over, of course he's regretting his original position.

Just like Dave Cook who won the PS3 by retweeting the hashtag and now says he's donating to charity to appease the masses. You can be certain that wasn't the original intent of his RT and if the story were to blow over tomorrow, I'd very much doubt he'd go through with it.
 

sixghost

Member
May 23, 2010
7,606
0
0
the podcast I believe. Someone posted a whole list of damning quotes including the gold ol' "You're all just jealous of us".
That was Jeff Cannata from Weekend Confirmed. Not Jeff Gerstmann. Giantbomb hasn't recorded a podcast since this thing happened.
 
May 20, 2007
6,313
0
0
LDN
I think this is super naive. His firsts post on the matter are his real thoughts on the matter. He's now backflipping because of the backlash he's getting after his original comments on the matter have been posted in the PA article and the RPG Codex one and the story isn't blowing over, of course he's regretting his original position.

Just like Dave Cook who won the PS3 by retweeting the hashtag and now says he's donating to charity to appease the masses. You can be certain that wasn't the original intent of his RT and if the story were to blow over tomorrow, I'd very much doubt he'd go through with it.
Dave Cook is an ex-PR man, unlike Ms Wainwright he isn't stupid.

Considering Klepek's response. I'm kindof hoping they don't address it at all on the next Bombcast.

I don't feel like being disappointed by them.
Jeff was commenting on it on the Octoberkast, check it out when Tested finish putting it up(check out Jeff Green too, he was bang on the money on this issue).
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 22, 2009
87,151
0
0
Australia
If you're seriously reading Klepek's "Let's move on" as a dismissive attitude to the entire debacle... it's clearly about switching topics within his larger Worth Reading article as a whole.
 
Sep 16, 2007
8,436
0
0
Sundridge, Canada
I think the interesting part of this story is that Keighley is free of all this criticism. He doesn't review games(afaik).

I suppose I cut him slack because I don't even see him as a shill. I see him as a living, breathing advert for video games.

I expect relatively current news from him and moderately skilled sports caster polish.

If Keighly is talking...he's selling.

If you're seriously reading Klepek's "Let's move on" as a dismissive attitude to the entire debacle... it's clearly about switching topics within his larger Worth Reading article as a whole.
I wouldn't call it dismissive...and I think I get the overall trajectory of his piece but in the end; it would have been nicer to see him actually address things.
 

DocSeuss

Member
Mar 26, 2012
9,246
0
0
Lawrence, KS
twitter.com
I think this is super naive. His firsts post on the matter are his real thoughts on the matter. He's now backflipping because of the backlash he's getting after his original comments on the matter have been posted in the PA article and the RPG Codex one and the story isn't blowing over, of course he's regretting his original position.

Just like Dave Cook who won the PS3 by retweeting the hashtag and now says he's donating to charity to appease the masses. You can be certain that wasn't the original intent of his RT and if the story were to blow over tomorrow, I'd very much doubt he'd go through with it.
You're only saying that because you want to believe that. I'm saying what I'm saying because I've been watching Totilo as a journalist for years, and I believe he's ultimately a good dude. I doubt he cares about the RPG Codex article or the PA Article because, before they were posted, he was already talking about reevaluating his position.

Sometimes, people change their minds when presented with good, intelligent arguments. It might be a foreign concept to you, but it does happen.

Isn't the whole point of this thread to get things to change? To get people to change? Now you've got a guy going "huh, okay, yeah, this topic is important," and you're couching it like it's a bad thing, despite that being the intent of this very thread. He's not backflipping or backpedaling or what have you, he's changed his mind because people here on GAF made awesome arguments. This thread has done what it was intended to do. You can be proud of that!
 

2San

Member
Dec 11, 2009
9,855
0
0
The Netherlands
I suppose I cut him slack because I don't even see him as a shill. I see him as a living, breathing advert for video games.

I expect relatively current news from him and moderately skilled sports caster polish.

If Keighly is talking...he's selling.
Exactly. I guess the real problem is that the Keighly's of this world are reviewing the games as well. There's nothing wrong with being Keighly, but it should revoke your license to review games.
They've been doing that for years, I remember Edge saying they had been refused copies after a bad review.
Still think Rockstar is the worst they've been doing it as early as the Vice City days, demanding 90%+ minimum and ad pages to be allowed to release a review before release date(for GTA games).
 

Gomu Gomu

Member
Jul 16, 2008
8,291
0
0
So, today's' articles concerning the subject:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8579
http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/mcvs-lauren-wainwright-english-libel-law-and-the-gaming-press-why-this-stor
http://www.destructoid.com/from-a-bag-of-doritos-to-a-bag-of-dirty-laundry-237619.phtml

All of them were fantastic. Glad this thread is finally getting results after days of discussions and pressing.

Seriously, this has been one of the best threads I've read and have been a part off.

I see she is on Neogaf right now. Hi Lauren.

The journos reacting defensively aren't doing so because they like their "free stuff" or love having their "PR teats to suckle on." It's because they feel attacked, plain and simple. They feel like they're being called dishonest and corrupt.

This couldn't be further from the truth. The trolls calling them corrupt liars are the same people who've always been calling them corrupt liars. The difference is that this time there's a whole new crop of readers who are coming into this conversation and questioning the ethics of having close ties to pubs and PR people. But those of us in this "new" crowd aren't calling them "corrupt" or "liars." Unfortunately, journalists are responding to these new voices the same way they've responded to the typical trolls.

These journalists simply aren't hearing us. Instead, they're choosing to relegate our complaints to the same pile as those other loud, unreasonable voices. It's become reflex at this point for them to respond like this because they've gotten used to doing exactly that for the past decade. But these new complaints aren't like the previous ones. It makes it easy for them to dismiss these new voices by just treating us the same way they've treated the everyday trolls they're used to dealing with (and dismissing). From their perspective that's all this looks like: the usual internet trolling and loud, anonymous naysaying and insults to credibility. I understand. I've been on the receiving end of this myself. It's very easy to ignore and dismiss.

Thankfully, it sounds like some journalists are listening and have been able to separate the wheat from the chaff in this discussion.
This is exactly why Garnett Lee dismissed discussing the subject today.
 

crazygambit

Member
Jun 4, 2007
4,928
0
0
You're only saying that because you want to believe that. I'm saying what I'm saying because I've been watching Totilo as a journalist for years, and I believe he's ultimately a good dude. I doubt he cares about the RPG Codex article or the PA Article because, before they were posted, he was already talking about reevaluating his position.

Sometimes, people change their minds when presented with good, intelligent arguments. It might be a foreign concept to you, but it does happen.

Isn't the whole point of this thread to get things to change? To get people to change? Now you've got a guy going "huh, okay, yeah, this topic is important," and you're couching it like it's a bad thing, despite that being the intent of this very thread. He's not backflipping or backpedaling or what have you, he's changed his mind because people here on GAF made awesome arguments. This thread has done what it was intended to do. You can be proud of that!
Sorry if I don't believe in unicorns and magical fearies like you seem to. The point is whether he actually changed his mind or not (which neither of us can know for certain) the best course of action he can take right now is to cover the story. I think we can both agree on that.

Occam's Razor tells me it's much more likely he realized this himself, rather than him having a change of heart and in less than a day change his whole view on this issue.

At the end of the day it doesn't even matter. I don't care if game journalists stop associating with and receiving gifts from PR because they've realized it's wrong or for fear of backlash. Like you said the point is that they change.
 

DocSeuss

Member
Mar 26, 2012
9,246
0
0
Lawrence, KS
twitter.com
Sorry if I don't believe in unicorns and magical fearies like you seem to. The point is whether he actually changed his mind or not (which neither of us can know for certain) the best course of action he can take right now is to cover the story. I think we can both agree on that.

Occam's Razor tells me it's much more likely he realized this himself, rather than him having a change of heart and in less than a day change his whole view on this issue.

At the end of the day it doesn't even matter. I don't care if game journalists stop associating with and receiving gifts from PR because they've realized it's wrong or for fear of backlash. Like you said the point is that they change.
That's not how Occam's Razor works.
 

crazygambit

Member
Jun 4, 2007
4,928
0
0
That's not how Occam's Razor works.
Yes it is.

Occam's Razor: Is a principle stating that among competing hypotheses, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be selected.
You are saying that in order for him to cover this story over on Kotaku, he should be among the first persons on a public forum to ever change their mind on a single thread, in addition to the fact that now the story is so big that it's already gotten Kotaku negatively mentioned in several pieces and comments. While I'm saying that just the latter part is necessary.
 

DocSeuss

Member
Mar 26, 2012
9,246
0
0
Lawrence, KS
twitter.com
Yes it is.



You are saying that in order for him to cover this story over on Kotaku, he should be among the first persons on a public forum to ever change their mind on a single thread, in addition to the fact that now the story is so big that it's already gotten Kotaku negatively mentioned in several pieces and comments. While I'm saying that just the latter part is necessary.
Actually, what I'm saying is that many people spoke with him, changing his mind. That is the simplest argument.

The negative Kotaku publicity largely came from articles published today, and he demonstrated that over the weekend he was already considering changing things. Judging by his own words, this is the case. He saw that there is a response to this, so he reevaluated it.

You, in contrast, have made many assumptions about his motives for doing so, some of which do not line up with reality (particularly your timeline).

Occam's Razor supports me, because I make few, if any, assumptions.
 

Mama Robotnik

Member
Apr 11, 2008
7,999
1
985
Did anyone grab a print screen to evidence her name appearing in the "Who's Online" section - did Ms Wainwright definitely visit our humble little forum?

It would be eventful if she posted, certainly.
 

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Feb 7, 2010
10,049
0
700
Ore-Gone.. not Ory-Gone.
Robert Florence ‏@robertflorence

Why do you need "connections". You can speak to your reader about the shared experience of gaming without ANY connections.
Sorry Rab, but I'm really just not that interested in a site devoted to talking to me about the the shared experience of gaming after games come out.

I already have a better site for that right here on GAF.

If I want decent podcasts, I have those.

If I want to read the occasional investigative piece, there's a few outlets for that.

Which get's me the big thing about all this, and much to what TruthJunky was on about, I just don't really feel like I'm missing out on all that much with how things are right now.

If I want the PR spin-cycle of hype I can find it easily, if I want the other things people in this thread demand I can find it easily as well.
 

Parallacs

Member
Mar 14, 2012
2,233
0
0
Maybe she is doing an Ami and deleting her posts from here too :O
It's gotta be sad having to go through everything you have done and erase it like twitter. I bet it hurt her to remove Square-Enix from her list of employers. She was probably really proud of listing that.

It didn't look like she found much community on GAF but it still must hurt to know that there is one less place she can post and feel welcome. But Amirox redeemed himself almost instantly by apologizing and becoming a likable guy. I can see her being a part of GAF if she wants to be and can redeem herself.

Streisand Effect is a powerful force on the internet and even if journalism doesn't change, we can all learn a lesson :)
 

Corto

Member
Dec 5, 2008
14,974
0
0
www.neogaf.com
Did he really say we're jealous of him?

Transcript of the podcast by redfalcon


JC: "Obviously we are in a position where we are a cog in a machine. I have very strong feelings that vacillate between two points of view because I get it. I get people wanting to be able to trust the people that they are reading or watching. I protect my opinion very strongly. I wish people cared this much about sh*t that really mattered ... I think that a lot of the hullabaloo and brouhaha comes from a place that it isn't really based in reality. I don't think anybody is truly shocked or would go to Geoff Keighley for something that would be invalidated by that photo. I think people are just pissed off that a guy who's very successful is successful in this way."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.