Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

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Dec 24, 2011
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It took a few seconds to register. Amirox was former mod who deleted a couple of his own posts to doctor his posting history.
^That. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

It's gotta be sad having to go through everything you have done and erase it like twitter. I bet it hurt her to remove Square-Enix from her list of employers. She was probably really proud of listing that.

It didn't look like she found much community on GAF but it still must hurt to know that there is one less place she can post and feel welcome. But Amirox redeemed himself almost instantly by apologizing and becoming a likable guy. I can see her being a part of GAF if she wants to be and can redeem herself.

Streisand Effect is a powerful force on the internet and even if journalism doesn't change, we can all learn a lesson :)
I don't know. I'm pretty good on being forgiving, but even looking at the whole Amirox thing, people would still bring up the story if they're feeling nasty.
 

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Jul 29, 2005
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It's gotta be sad having to go through everything you have done and erase it like twitter. I bet it hurt her to remove Square-Enix from her list of employers. She was probably really proud of listing that.

It didn't look like she found much community on GAF but it still must hurt to know that there is one less place she can post and feel welcome. But Amirox redeemed himself almost instantly by apologizing and becoming a likable guy. I can see her being a part of GAF if she wants to be and can redeem herself.

Streisand Effect is a powerful force on the internet and even if journalism doesn't change, we can all learn a lesson :)
Meh. Outside of her "Tomb Raider looks incredible!!!" posts, there isn't anything to delete.
 
Mar 21, 2011
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So funnily enough, in the midst of reading all this stuff, I got a package with a freebie for an (also relatively small) upcoming game. There was some pretty obvious choice language in there that made me chuckle in the wake of all this stuff. "Please help us spread the word about this preorder bonus!" I'm sure this is the kind of thing blogs like Kotaku get sent all the time - or at least, what is perceived as happening all the time. It's actually incredibly rare for me to see blatant marketing stuff like this - I could probably count the amount of iffy things I've been sent on one hand. That's not the point though; it shouldn't happen at all.

I need to write a polite "thanks, but no thanks" email, I guess. I'll take a picture of the letter and post it with my article later in the week.
 
Apr 15, 2007
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Exactly. I guess the real problem is that the Keighly's of this world are reviewing the games as well. There's nothing wrong with being Keighly, but it should revoke your license to review games.
A prominent person like Keighley doesn't even need to do proper reviews. Just remember the huge thread one of his tweets spawned last year when he said that he found one of the big holiday games to be a bit disappointing. Not one of GAF's proudest moments....
 
It's gotta be sad having to go through everything you have done and erase it like twitter. I bet it hurt her to remove Square-Enix from her list of employers. She was probably really proud of listing that.

It didn't look like she found much community on GAF but it still must hurt to know that there is one less place she can post and feel welcome. But Amirox redeemed himself almost instantly by apologizing and becoming a likable guy. I can see her being a part of GAF if she wants to be and can redeem herself.

Streisand Effect is a powerful force on the internet and even if journalism doesn't change, we can all learn a lesson :)
Considering what she did to Florence...

She can fuck right off.

Comparing her to Amirox does him a disservice.

Impossible, as editing permissions have been removed from that account.
Love this fuckin' guy.
 
Oct 27, 2011
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So funnily enough, in the midst of reading all this stuff, I got a package with a freebie for an upcoming game. There was some pretty obvious choice language in there that made me chuckle in the wake of all this stuff. "Please help us spread the word about this preorder bonus!" I'm sure this is the kind of thing blogs like Kotaku get sent all the time - or at least, what is perceived as happening all the time. It's actually incredibly rare for me to see blatant marketing stuff like this - I could probably count the amount of iffy things I've been on one hand. That's not the point though; it shouldn't happen at all.

I need to write a polite "thanks, but no thanks" email, I guess. I'll take a picture of the letter and post it with my article later in the week.
You don't think your readers would like to know about that bonus?
 
It's gotta be sad having to go through everything you have done and erase it like twitter. I bet it hurt her to remove Square-Enix from her list of employers. She was probably really proud of listing that.

It didn't look like she found much community on GAF but it still must hurt to know that there is one less place she can post and feel welcome. But Amirox redeemed himself almost instantly by apologizing and becoming a likable guy. I can see her being a part of GAF if she wants to be and can redeem herself.

Streisand Effect is a powerful force on the internet and even if journalism doesn't change, we can all learn a lesson :)
It's cool that he learned from that. I don't interact with him much, but I'm just joking around. Didn't mean anything beyond that.

Also, like I said before, I do hope she learns from this and does some soul searching and figures out what her profession is about. As for she coming back, I guess it's up to her and the way she decides to come back. As it stands, I think most GAF readers won't care about her opinions on videogames too much, nor look forward to her being part of this community again. Let's see if she cares.

Impossible, as editing permissions have been removed from that account.
Well, that clears that up. =)
 
Nov 17, 2009
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It's pretty typical Cannata behavior. He opines about "entitled gamers" at each and every opportunity.
Sadly true.

I loved Totally Rad Show in its first few years - it was fresh and funny and imaginative. It has slowly devolved into just another review show and rarely shows the spark that it once held.

Jeff Cannata was a very positive person, a gaming everyman if you will, when the show began. He's much more slick and cynical nowadays and it's sad to see.
 
Oct 6, 2006
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Sadly true.

I loved Totally Rad Show in its first few years - it was fresh and funny and imaginative. I has slowly devolved into just another review show and rarely shows the spark that it once held.

Jeff Cannata was a very positive person, a gaming everyman if you will, when the show began. He's much more slick and cynical nowadays and it's sad to see.
Same. I used to be a big fan of his as well.

It's just sad that he lost that outsider perspective once he became part of the PR machine.
 
Mar 14, 2012
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Considering what she did to Florence...

She can fuck right off.

Comparing her to Amirox does him a disservice.

I'm not defending her in any way. The way she gloated using her legal aspects of journalism classes makes my piss boil.

I'm also not comparing her to Amirox in any way. I was just thinking about how sad (as in emotionally, not pathetic) it must be to have to edit out posts on GAF. Looking though them, they are funny but not very volatile, not enough to need removal. The one where she whines about reactions to her reviews is pretty funny.
 
Aug 24, 2007
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Didn't see this posted, so here you go, it's Jim Sterling's latest thoughts on the matter at hand:

http://www.destructoid.com/from-a-bag-of-doritos-to-a-bag-of-dirty-laundry-237619.phtml

While I don't care much for Jim Sterling the character, I'm starting to really respect Jim Sterling the writer.

Fake Edit: Mock if already posted.
This is a great little piece. Not really anything new, but good to hear those thoughts from different individuals. Well written, too.
 
Feb 18, 2012
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Impossible, as editing permissions have been removed from that account.


Not bad, sir. Not bad at all.

To add some content to this post: do I think this scandal is large enough to change things long term? I don't think so. We might have some UK people watching their words in the next couple of months, but there's still no deterrent for the status quo continuing. Frankly, outside of a mass boycott bringing down a website (and you know what gamers are like with boycotts) or corrupt people getting fired, I don't think there will be ever a deterrent to PR-influenced games writing.

Before you raise Lauren, her job is 100% secure: her main employers are MCV (who back her 100%) and News International (let's just say that this scandal is microscopic beer for them). Likewise, neither employer will notice a gamer's boycott (MCV's main target group is managers of HMVs, GAMEs and supermarkets throughout the country, and gamers boycotting The Sun en-mass would probably not be noticeable at the bean counters at News International, considering they coped with Liverpool boycotting The Sun since Hillsborough). Her reputation amongst hardcore gamers might be tatters, but they aren't the target market of her work.
 
Dec 6, 2008
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I'd be down with late reviews. Hell, I'd prefer them.

I'd know the critic spent as much time with the game as he/she needed to. I'd know they didn't just rush through a game on easy mode, and I'd know they spent time getting to know and understand a game's details and environments.

I know Metacritic is the key to getting a site on people's radar, and that having an early review is key to getting seen on Metacritic, but there are a good handful of sites that don't even give scores. What's the difference? Give the reviews a week to percolate. You'd get to be the "final word" even. While everyone else is rushing to get their reviews out, you'd get to be the one absorbing it all, not dealing with launch-week issues, and saying something definitive about a game.

You could even build the site on exactly that premise. Polygon is trying to play this game by having flexible scores and reviews, but they'll still be rushing to get through games to have reviews up by embargo days. It colors not only your evaluation of a game, but it colors your entire experience of a game. I've been there. I know what it's like. I had to complete and review GTA4 in two days. Not at all reflective of how most people experience a game like that (and BTW I got slammed by readers for giving a less-than-perfect score).

Seems to me there's room for that kind of a site. Hell, if I didn't have another gig in another industry, I might even do it myself. A lot of blogs do this already. But none seem to foreground that approach.
There are plenty of bloggers out there who write interesting about games on their own time, using their own money. critical-distance.com is a good place to start.
 
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Great question. And "titty funbag stress reliever" made me LOL. So I think that means I need to suggest that for the next E3, yeah. Maybe zombie titty funbags?

To answer for real: In fact, I would not have to do that. For one, I have input/authority/responsibility for PopCap events. So I could just flat out veto that and it's likely it wouldn't happen in the first place. Second, EA has been pretty great so far about "letting PopCap be PopCap", so the likelihood of us being forced to develop Hooters Roadtrip 2 are slim at best, unless maybe it was a Match 3 game. (Which seems kind of anatomically disturbing.) Third, yeah, I do kind of have the freedom - at least so far - to just say, "Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna do that or cover that," and I'm left alone. I'm fortunate. They want me to be "me," and know that if my integrity - well, such as it is, for a shill - is compromised, well, that's really all I have to offer in the first place anyway. Also, I'd quit! So there's that.
Damn. That's is a hell of a set up you got there.

So listen, in a couple of years when they decide it is time to set you to pasture in central park with your shopping cart and a tirade about social issues, you could you please let me know first so I can apply. I could use a job that swank.

Also, everyone should buy every Pop-cap game. They are all awesome. No bullshit.

(See, I can handle the gig, no prob.)
 
Feb 1, 2007
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It will be important to examine the articles kotaku et al. write about this subject in the coming days and not let them off the hook just because 'we won, they acknowledged us!'

Continuous discussion and investigation here and elsewhere have helped push them this far, but if the pieces they write downplay the seriousness of of the issue or have innaccuracies, we cannot just let it go.

Getting complacent over a minor victory is the very thing that will cause these events to fail to have a lasting impact. If anything, we should be even more vigilant going forward. If the bigger outlets simply co-opt the issue and use it to tout there own credibility while sweeping the issue under the rug, it is our duty to call them out.
 
Jun 19, 2010
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Disappointed in the CAG guys. There's one podcast down.
Yup. I know I'm just one visitor, but how different outlets are responding to this mess is definitely changing my browsing habits.

Those who dismiss it or feel it's just navel gazing are showing just how entrenched the problem really is.

And this "I'm immune, trust me!" bullshit is infuriating.
 
Feb 27, 2006
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NeoGAF should give awards for honest game coverage, something we can vote on and present to the sites and blogs out there who put the gamer first. The symbol could be a bag of orange triangles in green liquid, or that freakish cupcake.

EDIT: \/ \/ LOL, but apparently he's come around.
 
Jan 7, 2012
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NeoGAF should give an annual award for honest game coverage, something we can vote on and present to the sites and blogs out there who put the gamer first.
Maybe include more sites than GAF. Maybe GameFAQs?

SPOILER:
that was a joke

I don't know if completely leaving it up to GAF to decide what sites put the gamer first is a good idea. People on this board can be very fickle.
 
Aug 11, 2009
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Can you add Jeff Gerstmann's response to me on the subject via tumblr?
Jeff Gerstmann "I am too busy covering games to give a shit about what any of those people are doing." ("those people" being shills)
chasereuter asked:Do you plan on writing anything about the Rab Florence thing? A lot of the big names are being quiet about it and I understand why, and why you might, but I'm sure people would love to know your opinion on the subject. Not that your past has a lot to do with this particularly, but maybe a common anti-shill theme.
It’ll probably come up on the podcast, assuming everyone isn’t completely bored of hearing about it by then. But sure, I’ll write something. Here:

“The Games Media Awards is set up to honor game journalists in the UK and every single ‘Gold Partner Sponsor’ is a fucking video game company. The end.”

Or perhaps my reaction could more accurately be summed up as “except for the unfortunate part where this will cause some people to incorrectly assume that everyone in this line of work is ethically unsound, an idiot, or both, I am too busy covering games to give a shit about what any of those people are doing.”
 
Did anyone grab a print screen to evidence her name appearing in the "Who's Online" section - did Ms Wainwright definitely visit our humble little forum?

It would be eventful if she posted, certainly.
Please tell me you're planning on doing another epic Wall of Shame post, though this time listing bloggers instead of forum members.

Kudo's to Gaf for helping to keep this story going before it gets completely swept under the rug.
 
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