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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
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I found myself agreeing with a lot of Matt's post on Tumblr regarding the corruption angle and why he doesn't find it worth discussing in most cases.
http://jamsponge.tumblr.com/post/95731137698/why-the-games-press-wont-talk-about-ethical-corruption
I think he takes a little far by really only speaking to the "gaming media is fully corrupt forever" argument, because there is definitely room for more disclosure and whatnot as has been discussed in this thread, but he is entirely right that there really isn't much evidence at all of the really bad stuff happening besides a few highly publicized incidents that did lead to changes.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
HA! Suck it Schreier, you aren't cool enough to hang out on that Super Social Justice Warrior image floating arround. You're a Social Warrior at best!
I've been this way for awhile. I'm just an enthusiast, someone who enjoys playing video games and loves to talk about them but isn't ruled by them.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
There's an interesting mind trick to stuff like this. Some worry that they're into something "too much" because they don't want to be "one of those people". As I see it, it's never really about how much you're involved with something. One shouldn't be afraid of their own enthusiasm, or passion.
But the trick part is you can avoid being ruled by something - even if you eat sleep and breath it - if you develop a sense of self that isn't defined by any one label. Or context. I tend to think this is a kind of mental switch that has to be flipped the first time for a person. Once you come by this frame of mind, it's hard to shake it (which is good for you).
After that you don't have to worry about how you relate to your interests. That psychological lifeline will be there and you can always pull yourself back up after a deep dive.
When I first really started taking a step back I realized a lot of things. It's kind of like "Wow! have I really been that obsessive?" and stuff like that. Kind of a break through feeling. It is a really neat trick.
I know some friends who often call themselves "fans of anime" rather than "anime fans" or "otaku" and I guess that's kind of where I learned it from when they discussed why they did. They are just as much a fan of anime, manga and Japanese culture and history as the rest but they're not totally obsessed like an anime fan or otaku.
So, two things have been swirling in my mind the past couple of months.
One, what's the take on getting early copies (not labeled as review) that also come with extra codes, etc? I've initially denied them since I only bring a carry-on when I travel. Over the past few events I've denied them out of principle.
When I first started denying them, reps would say that if I didn't want them I could have a giveaway for them. Hearing that made me feel like I was being used as a promotional tool even if I did the ethical thing, by not accepting the "kits," and giving them away. Full disclosure, I've never accepted these types of kits.
Am I being a bit too conservative when it comes to that stuff? It's not going to affect the way I review or cover a game, in my opinion. With that said I don't want my name or website's reputation to be questioned because we essentially gave away something that could be seen as a promotion.
Along with that, I've begun to remove myself from the previews, reviews, and news cycle to work on features. I like simply asking people why they chose certain things and normally go from there. Most of them are personal interest stories. I spend a lot of time with these people. A couple of times, I've embedded myself with them for a few days to get the entire feel of what I'm covering. I'm nervous that since i'm spending so much time with the people I'm covering, I may have a puff piece instead of an impartial feature. How can I be sure that my relationships doesn't subconsciously affect my reporting?
One, what's the take on getting early copies (not labeled as review) that also come with extra codes, etc? I've initially denied them since I only bring a carry-on when I travel. Over the past few events I've denied them out of principle.
When I first started denying them, reps would say that if I didn't want them I could have a giveaway for them. Hearing that made me feel like I was being used as a promotional tool even if I did the ethical thing, by not accepting the "kits," and giving them away. Full disclosure, I've never accepted these types of kits.
Am I being a bit too conservative when it comes to that stuff? It's not going to affect the way I review or cover a game, in my opinion. With that said I don't want my name or website's reputation to be questioned because we essentially gave away something that could be seen as a promotion.
Along with that, I've begun to remove myself from the previews, reviews, and news cycle to work on features. I like simply asking people why they chose certain things and normally go from there. Most of them are personal interest stories. I spend a lot of time with these people. A couple of times, I've embedded myself with them for a few days to get the entire feel of what I'm covering. I'm nervous that since i'm spending so much time with the people I'm covering, I may have a puff piece instead of an impartial feature. How can I be sure that my relationships doesn't subconsciously affect my reporting?
You're taking a great stance at trying to be as ethical as you can be in journalism and I applaud you over that. In the recent light of these past 2 weeks I even say Thank You!
Now onto the last part of your post, I think in all honesty that a few days and if you only are with them only a few days then it's all fine. Yes you made friends with them at the end of it but during the the process you did your job as an interviewer and asked them questions beyond
"How cool is your game?"
for the response to be
"SOO COOL!!"
Now the easiest way I think to make sure that people have less problems with what you write is that you admit you went through the process of a few days spending time with said person to learn about the person and to make said article better past what I typed above. If you do this I personally wouldn't have a problem ever reading anything you write.
From the perspective of a traditional print journalist I would say that for reviews it's a necessary gray area.
As far as avoiding letting your feeling affect your writing it's hard. You have to constantly remind yourself that work comes before how much you like, or dislike, the person. It's a must to avoid anything like gifts, especiaaly from people you like. If you can't say no, as in they mailed it to you or left it with you after an interview, give it to some type of charity if you can.
It's hard having the work-friend barrier since a good chunk of the people you meet will be genuinely good people.
Personally I think if you are mindful of these issues you are probably making the right calls each step of the way.
May I ask who you write for? PM is fine if you trust me not to divulge as I'd be interested to see if I already read your stuff.
Also seems like your 'embedding' in context of features is just normal research appropriate to consumer products. It's not as if you could get the same understanding from attending another facility, after all?
And props to you.
Personal relationships and investment do color coverage. That's why every single guide to making your indie game a success stresses that you should follow game journalists on Twitter, be jovial, ingratiate yourself, then drop that hey, you just so happen to be making a game!
That advice exists because people believe it works. It probably does work to some degree.
Keighley is inoffensive though. I dont trust him but he isn't bad. He is just very close to PR. Personally I prefer honest, unfiltered opinions so I look elsewhere.
Ya I know but still this whole situation just makes me laugh, that like I said people trust him more for a opinion on gaming then they do a lot of these people involved. Only guy I still like who got involved in this whole mess as a writer is Jason.
I had zero respect for Jason at the start of this thread but I'm convinced I was wrong then. I dont always agree with him but I definitely trust that his opinions are genuine.
Heck this is how most of the gaming "journalists" are atm and which is why people are not able to have discussions at all Wooden Bender helping me out.
one of the Co-founders of Escapist had to say this about this whole thing happening in the past few weeks. To make it even better and to make sure that people don't accuse of him of buckling under the pressure or conspiracy people he said this. showing that he's not condoing any harassment but he's also getting sick of the constant crap and non discussion going on in articles today.
Bookmark for later, thanks.
I think the problem at the moment is there are possibly a lot of friendly fire casualties in this week. People who are sympathetic to the cause yet not informed enough to make nuanced or accurate comments end up getting roasted as much as actual spiteful misogynists do.
Sounds like an adult.
Mohonky
Member
This. What the fuck is going on, i cant keep up with all this hashtag and tweet shit fighting, someone explain it to us that were born before 1996.
Yep and I hope those statements weren't just PR so escapist doesn't get hit even harder.
Keighley is basically the Dick Clark/Ryan Seacrest of the video game industry at this point.
"Journalists" are being called out on their shit for constantly having a conflict of interest and complete and utter bias for the people the write about. The wishy washy crap of being a blogger but then a journalist but then a only an enthusiast. They're responding in complete vitriol to people that dare question ethics in journalism no matter sincere those questions are because they feel offended that they have to actually do work for their job. Even better they're trying to canabalize each other because of ideologies and not ethics to the point where they ragged on people like Jason and Kotaku because they dare changed their code to match more closely to this.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Thanks for that. I needed a good laugh.
Ya...this topic is reminding me about stuff I completely forgot about, actually. I need to remember that games media is literally no different then any other media, and assume impropriety. Haha, I just got reminded of the Dave Jaffe(does he still not talk to them?) incident, and the Max Tempkin allegations. Hahaha, ya, jeez, there is a whole bunch of stuff if you combine these last couple years, that you could use to completely dump on the game press.
The funniest thing about this and their crusade to end the label "gamer" is that the biggest companies like Sony, Microsoft, and even recently Nintendo all had to adjust themselves to appease the core gamer because the casual people dumped them. Even better is that each of those sites and many sites around the world but so many advertising dollars and money into involving the label "gamer" that it makes this all a joke to consider coming from sites that're slowly falling.
Do you feel the game industry need a code of ethics similar to what the Wall Street Journal has in place? WSJ is allowed no review product (a WSJ reporter was once fired for accepting tickets to a sporting event that he was assigned to cover). Here is a good recent example: 2K flew people to WWE Summer Slam earlier this month since the WWE2K15 roster was going to be announced and it allowed for interview ops with the wrestlers. How many outlets disclosed such details?
Which is what videos like this are doing now. Even if the title turns you off because of recent events atleast watch the tweets and other shit these people are saying it's freaking insane how these people got jobs at all.
Riposte
Member
I read what Schreier wrote, on Us vs. Them: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s71k8k
Maybe it has been the barrage of "gamer" hating from all directions that has, surprisingly to me given my disinterest in gaming press (unrelated to ethics, which I think people can be unfair about), really started to affect my mood and soften me up, but it was, just as surprisingly, comforting to read something that wasn't an us or them narrative. Reading the replying tweets showed me that I wasn't crazy for thinking there was a Us vs. Them narrative for Schreier to stray from.
To explain myself, I think all the vitriol towards "gamers" cannot be excused by "oh, but I only mean the bad ones who don't talk or dress right or don't act like me", because the image of the gamer is defined by many things we can find in ourselves as enthusiasts. On GAF at least, we are "hyper consumers" highly invested in our "toys" and the companies that make them, we gobble up gaming press, streams, and reviews with occasional excitement and may even argue about it vigorously on the internet, we play those constant sequels of "murder simulators" and love messy headshots and some of us "lack the culture" to feel the need to be guilty about it, and the games we have traditionally love are losing their dominant position (why gamers are over) in the business sense with mobiles and critical sense with games of highly subverts their interactivity or genres and some of us have strong opinions about those games that could be characterized as resistant or exclusionary. Now "gamers" can be over without "us", you can "distance" yourself from the identity of the gamer (assuming you feel that's even a concept worth thinking about), but if you are going to drop a nuke (and the mountain of hate and desire for complete separation I've seen could be characterized by a nuke) on these gamers then I fail to see how we are not also hitting NeoGAF as a concept here (if not game journalism itself, and many individuals saying this seem to be saying as much) in the process. So, it is like, you either make the mental exercise to make the gamer into such a small boogeyman that never truly mattered enough to be "over" or you realize that you are shitting on or being shitted on by association (or perhaps are pulling others into some form of self-flagellation).
It's really unfortunate though, because it is hard for me to separate this Schreier from the one that called George Kamitani a 14-year-old boy because of his sexy pictures, not because it was rude (he apologized), but it is perhaps the perfect example of what makes me have any opposition to the inclusion movement in the first place, the underlying and undeniable exclusion movement alongside it (especially when propped up with a moral impetus that demands it). (EDIT: Heh, and this thread was a battleground for that)
To be honest, yes no flights or parties no more any of that, and if people can't handle that then to bad. These youtube personalities can handle buying their own tickets to places and heck even recently avoiding these events all together like how TB and Jim Sterling do.
Only thing and only thing that I would accept is free game being handed to them to review and that's it.
What about public parties? With PAX now underway, numerous companies host parties for both the fans and journalists - they normally offer VIP passes or a list for journalist/writers/etc... We've seen pictures from E3's and other events of PR, journalists, and devs with a cold drink in their hand having a good time. I'm only asking to get a better idea of what people truly want for the industry & what course of action is best since most people I ask have varied opinions.
I agree with the refusal of flights and other accommodations. This is something I've done in all my years of covering games. As for reviews, I always disclose if it was a review copy or if I purchased the game.
The standards would be great, but it wouldnt matter.
The sad truth is, this is a systemic problem in journalism not just games journalism. Ha, ha, surgery has given me way to much time on my hands.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Keighly IS a PR person and I don't think he ever tried to appear as anything else. I might not like him, but it's not like he is pretending to be a neutral and honest journalist. He is the guy who asks "How awesome will this be?" but he also won't write a review about the game afterwards.
SolidSnakex
Member
His Final Hour pieces are still amazing. Especially the one he did on Daikatana. The part where Romero starts to read and talk about the emails that he receives daily is particularly good.
Now the party thing is a bit harder, obviously if like before you were personally flown to said party that stuff shouldn't be allowed. But to say journalists can't have any personal lives would be going to far. I guess my thing is probably this, if you get chummy with these devs and all of these people at these parties you better be transparent as all heck about it clarifying that you're friends with these people. If you don't though, then don't have a hissy fit like alot of these "journalists" are having when people call you out on conflicts. That right there is the main reason people are so pissed about this whole situation.
Perfectly reasonable.
funkystudent
Member
Always though of Keighly as more of a TV host then anything else. I hold him to the same standards I hold some dick hosting a morning chat show or Conan O Brian or whoever.
He hosts stuff and thats about it.
TBH out side of him not shutting up about Titanfall I dont really know much about his tastes. He keeps that to himself for the most part.
He hosts stuff and thats about it.
TBH out side of him not shutting up about Titanfall I dont really know much about his tastes. He keeps that to himself for the most part.
That Twitter conversation is basically people saying that we should stop using the Polio vaccine because Salk beat his wife. That you have to do the exact opposite of what the "bad guys" want or else you're aiding and abetting them.
I wonder how far that logic goes.
Like, if the "gamersgate" people say that Kotaku should hire more female writers to write about game mechanics rather than "SJW" stuff should Kotaku then contact a woman they were in the process of hiring and rescind their offer?
If gamersgate people point out spelling and grammar errors should they not be corrected? "If you change 'loose' to 'lose' the bad guys win! Don't validate them!"
I can sort of understand the logic but it's pretty crazy. It's literally do not correct wrongs if the wrong people want them corrected.
Kadayi
Banned
Spot on.
The whole hiring female writers to show and promote other females in the industry, or atleast have other writers do it would be very swell....because every single gaming "journalist" site I've seen in the past few years hasn't a decent interview with a women in ages that wasn't some clickbait title. There are select few actual articles showing the highlights, what's even more annoying is that small youtube channels like this guys channel. doing videos like this. have in my eyes have done better job then most of the "journalists" out there to help out. *btw that video and subsequent ones are very nice to watch
*She could still be defined as journalist right?
I don't think it's fair to be a journalist and consultant at the same time, even if you don't cover these games.
Wrestlemania
Banned
Lowlander2
Banned
Tempted to agree considering her more in-depth, revealing features on Gamasutra, but while we're on the topic of things being arbitrarily more important, as everyone decrying Kotaku last week was wont to do, I have greater qualms about Alexander's integrity. Most notably when she revealed, and drew attention to the fact that she revealed, the email address of someone responding to one of her articles last month.
http://gamergateharrassment.tumblr.com/ just like at the bile by all of these people....here's the latest bullshit one that that these people protecting the press are doing yep totally reasonable I sorta wonder if some people are going to be fired at all for this.
Well damn. That Cryptozoologist guy doesn't he post on here?
Yup. Or at least someone with the same name.
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