How are we as gamers supposed to do that? I report people who are abusive on PSN or XBL and try to spend money to support people who are doing good but what more can I do? It seems like instead of trying to get rid of the gamer moniker everyone should focus on getting publishers to fund inclusive games and getting changes to hiring practices.Which is the point of the original Alexander piece. It's a stereotype that we should leave behind. We both agree... but to do that we have to fill the vacuum of silence with positivity. Which brings me to your second paragraph.
It most definitely is our responsibility to cultivate a positive and inclusive environment for all types of people. That's part of what NeoGAF is about. Why do you think it's so heavily moderated? Because of that heavy moderation we're able to have an actual discussion about corruption and feminism (albeit with some people it's like pulling teeth) without the shrill cry of assholes that are found pretty much everywhere else.
If we don't take the wheel then we end up with stupid shit like this Zoe Quinn 'controversy'. This isn't the first time the conversation around games has been punctuated with misogyny.
Apparently now people who are supporting writers and developers and sites through Patreon are getting targeted for harassment because Patreon doesn't have a feature to anonymize one's donation.
I disagree; we have the same proportion of nasty people as many other hobbies. Gaming attracts misogynists is a meme that needs to die.
We should not have the responsibility to police individuals that happen to share our interests. That responsibility lies with the providers of services and the justice system in extreme circumstances.
Apparently now people who are supporting writers and developers and sites through Patreon are getting targeted for harassment because Patreon doesn't have a feature to anonymize one's donation.
How are we as gamers supposed to do that? I report people who are abusive on PSN or XBL and try to spend money to support people who are doing good but what more can I do? It seems like instead of trying to get rid of the gamer moniker everyone should focus on getting publishers to fund inclusive games and getting changes to hiring practices.
You can't be serious. What the hell?Apparently now people who are supporting writers and developers and sites through Patreon are getting targeted for harassment because Patreon doesn't have a feature to anonymize one's donation.
Which is the point of the original Alexander piece. It's a stereotype that we should leave behind. We both agree... but to do that we have to fill the vacuum of silence with positivity. Which brings me to your second paragraph.
It most definitely is our responsibility to cultivate a positive and inclusive environment for all types of people..
So far this year Samantha Allen, Phill Fish, Jenn Frank and Mattie Brice have been hounded out of the industry.
Apparently now people who are supporting writers and developers and sites through Patreon are getting targeted for harassment because Patreon doesn't have a feature to anonymize one's donation.
Apparently now people who are supporting writers and developers and sites through Patreon are getting targeted for harassment because Patreon doesn't have a feature to anonymize one's donation.
Wait what? They are judging things on a basis of how progressive a game is instead of the gameplay being good/fun?this is a good post. post more about people being stupid in this stupid stuff
Which makes the entire issue of non-disclosure of Patreon backing creating an enormous firestorm all the more bizarre and nonsensical. It literally makes no sense.
Patreon not allowing anonymous donation isn't the problem. The problem is the conflicts of interest that arises from journalists actively donating money to developers.
Link to full article: http://ellaguro.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/on-gamers-and-identity.htmlRemember, this separate sphere is all we have outside of work itself. It’s this private sphere that is supposed to lend true meaning to our lives - not our shitty job that we grudgingly wake up for every day. This is where shit matters and as it happens when things are under your care you give a lot of damns when something appears to attack them.
So what comes out isn’t so much entirely about a hatred of women (though much of it is) but also about the reaction against the drive of a more communal impulse to challenge that hegemony of the private sphere. To move against bourgeois values means to attack, in one sense, that autonomous sphere of production and reproduction of the monarchy of the home. It means to rip that tiny sphere of sovereignty that so many people, robbed of any other space of control in their lives through rampant capital accumulation, have. It also shows how the economic movements of our world come around and viciously react against things they seem so far away from."
in other words, #gamergate-rs are afraid that new progressive communal challenges to the one small private sphere of the home they've been socially permitted to exercise control over and feel freedom within will cause them to be erased. as such, "'gamers' are over" may sound more like a declaration of war to them than anything else.
Indeed. Fucking infuriating.Sadly, the irony of using "ethics" as a smokescreen for unethical behavior is probably lost on these people.
I think you are talking about different things. Lime is referring to random patreons taking shit simply for donating, whether they are press or not. And because they can't be anonymous, they're easy bait for trolls.
I haven't been following this too much and don't know many of the people involved, but Jenn Frank? Come on man, that is a legitimately good writer and people want her out of the medium?So far this year Samantha Allen, Phill Fish, Jenn Frank and Mattie Brice have been hounded out of the industry. The amount of talent we're losing because some boys don't think girls should play with 'their' toys is heartbreaking.
Patreon not allowing anonymous donation isn't the problem. The problem is the conflicts of interest that arises from journalists actively donating money to developers.
Is that a real conflict of interest? In the UK newspapers back certain political parties, does that mean they are all corrupt? I also highly doubt journalists are not allowed to vote or donate personally to political parties that they write articles about either.
Just wait till you get false positives- such a tool won't work. Also all it would take is one troll to jack it up.
This isn't even mentioning the hiveminding that this would create. Even if it did work, you'd just see both camps blocking a ton of people.
This is why I'm very reluctant to block anyone for their opinions (I've only done it to one person over this)
Jenn Frank is one of the nicest people I know, she has supported so many people over so long a time(including me), and she gets run out of gaming over flat out, obvious lies and disingenuous misrepresentations.
Her OPINION PIECE wasn't objective enough? The GUARDIAN'S decision on whether disclosure of a relationship with a harassment victim was relevant is the proof she's corrupt?
I've never been so sad and so angry. Fuck "gamers".
So far this year Samantha Allen, Phill Fish, Jenn Frank and Mattie Brice have been hounded out of the industry. The amount of talent we're losing because some boys don't think girls should play with 'their' toys is heartbreaking.
Kamiya is not amused
Is that a real conflict of interest? In the UK newspapers back certain political parties, does that mean they are all corrupt? I also highly doubt journalists are not allowed to vote or donate personally to political parties that they write articles about either.
Way to generalize. Nobody intelligent is seriously saying there's a conflict of interest when two people are simply talking on twitter, that's straight up hyperbole on your part. However, people are calling out Developers and journalists when real, personal relationship are given light. Would you be okay if, say, a close-friend of Ken Levine, or someone who supported him financially, was a journalist and reviewed Bioshock Infinite, giving the game high remarks? That's the definition of a conflict of interest, and doubt many people would be comfortable with that. I see no reason why the same logic should apply to Independent Developers as well.The movement has unilaterally decided that any communication or interaction between people creates a conflict of interest and that all must bend before this decision, regardless of any former precedents set by years and years of journalism.
Did you talk on Twitter? CONFLICT! Were you on a podcast together with the composer of a game you reviewed? CONFLICT.
You know, there are reviewers for some kinds of media who pride themselves on never having accepted anything for free (including, for example, movie reviewers who have never gone to a free screening for critics, and instead buy all their tickets with their own money). Apparently this is now a conflict of interest?Patreon not allowing anonymous donation isn't the problem. The problem is the conflicts of interest that arises from journalists actively donating money to developers.
yeah going through her twitter history, she actually is talking about the whole gamergate thing in a pretty even handed manner. like, nuanced to the point of non-Twitteresque. i've never really read much of her stuff but its freakishly thoughtful for 140 characters.
unfortunately im pretty sure her departure is gonna be used to demonize people with the gamergate tag, who will in turn use such a reaction to demonize the sj advocates, who in turn...
its an ouroboros of profanity, caps lock and exclamation points. what an utter shame
How is there no competition for twitter? Is it simply because there is more eyes on twitter so people want to be there? Because from all this shit to the doxxing of a hell of a lot of people with-in the last year, you would think people would back away. I guess the need for social media is so great for your livelihood, specifically twitter, so you just have to deal with the devil?
Publications backing politicians is and has been common for hundreds of years. From the must respected, like the NY Times, to the least, like the NY post. In a more ging related way, supporting an artist or art house with praise has alwas been a common practice of art critics.In the same way Fox news is corrupt,
Unless you're talking about The Sun, they do have the advantage of not being owned by Rupert Murdoch.In the same way Fox news is corrupt, sure.
Now the FBI are involved.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...t_of_game_developers.php#.VAh9jGhaAkQ.twitter
Is that a real conflict of interest? In the UK newspapers back certain political parties, does that mean they are all corrupt? I also highly doubt journalists are not allowed to vote or donate personally to political parties that they write articles about either.
Journalists donating to a dev sugests they want to see them do well so people looking at coverage could be very wary to trust what they write about the dev and their games.You know, there are reviewers for some kinds of media who pride themselves on never having accepted anything for free (including, for example, movie reviewers who have never gone to a free screening for critics, and instead buy all their tickets with their own money). Apparently this is now a conflict of interest?
Now, developers donating money to journalists could be a conflict of interest. I say "could" because it is not necessarily one. For example, if a wealthy developer, I don't know, John Carmack or something, was to donate money to some insightful blog about game mechanics because he wants to see more articles, there'd be nothing wrong with it. It would be a conflict of interest, on the other hand, if the journalist was actively reviewing or promoting the developer's games.
But how in the world can a journalist donating money to a developer be a conflict of interest, keeping in mind that this is what they automatically have to do to play the developer's games? What conflict of interest could there possibly be there? The only thing I can think of is if you have some really reclusive game developer who never gives interviews, and a journalist pays him $10,000 to give an exclusive interview. That does not appear to be what's happening here.
Even if a journalist donating money to a developer WAS a big deal, though, Patreon not allowing anonymous donations would still be the problem. Because if the donations are anonymous - if the developer didn't know where the money was coming from - any conflict of interest would disappear.
1. I never said that.You know, there are reviewers for some kinds of media who pride themselves on never having accepted anything for free (including, for example, movie reviewers who have never gone to a free screening for critics, and instead buy all their tickets with their own money). Apparently this is now a conflict of interest?
Now, developers donating money to journalists could be a conflict of interest. I say "could" because it is not necessarily one. For example, if a wealthy developer, I don't know, John Carmack or something, was to donate money to some insightful blog about game mechanics because he wants to see more articles, there'd be nothing wrong with it. It would be a conflict of interest, on the other hand, if the journalist was actively reviewing or promoting the developer's games.
But how in the world can a journalist donating money to a developer be a conflict of interest, keeping in mind that this is what they automatically have to do to play the developer's games? What conflict of interest could there possibly be there? The only thing I can think of is if you have some really reclusive game developer who never gives interviews, and a journalist pays him $10,000 to give an exclusive interview. That does not appear to be what's happening here.
Even if a journalist donating money to a developer WAS a big deal, though, Patreon not allowing anonymous donations would still be the problem. Because if the donations are anonymous - if the developer didn't know where the money was coming from - any conflict of interest would disappear.
Pen, meet sword more or less.Well this whole thing just keeps going to new levels of rotten and stupid. Seems to show how easily a mob can be whipped up by some minor "controversy" presented to them as some personal injustice against them, or as a terrible wrong that must be righted immediately and warrants personal attacks against the wrong-doer.
How "political" am I for thinking this is out of control?
What's at stake is not necessarily the way a game is marketed, or whether or not it is "honest" in its representation, but rather the quality of its content. In this case, that content is a grotesque over-sexualization of its characters. It's trash, plain and simple, and deserves to be criticized for it.
It is not disrespectful or disingenuous to any artist to criticize their work.
That's part of producing any content that is made available publicly. Furthermore, arguing that the characters in Dragon's Crown are over-sexualized to the point of absurdity is hardly a "political" stance.
They look ridiculous to the point that it detracts from the game. Personally, if I put the game on the TV with the Sorceress as my character, my girlfriend walks out of the room. The sight of it disgusts her. I thank any game critic for pointing that out, because I do not want to buy a video game as unfit for public consumption as this one.
Journalists donating to a dev sugests they want to see them do well so people looking at coverage could be very wary to trust what they write about the dev and their games.
It's so fucking ironic that the editorial that originally spawned #gamergate so accurately predicted the response of "gamers" and proved her accusations.
I learned something new! Time to go make a bunch of ant related posts on twitter with the #Gamergate tag.
In the same way Fox news is corrupt, sure.
Way to generalize. Nobody intelligent is seriously saying there's a conflict of interest when two people are simply talking on twitter, that's straight up hyperbole on your part. However, people are calling out Developers and journalists when real, personal relationship are given light. Would you be okay if, say, a close-friend of Ken Levine, or someone who supported him financially, was a journalist and reviewed Bioshock Infinite, giving the game high remarks? That's the definition of a conflict of interest, and doubt many people would be comfortable with that. I see no reason why the same logic should apply to Independent Developers as well.
Meanwhile, IGN's frontpage is completely silent on what is or has been transpiring.
Same with Giant Bomb. and Gamespot too!
Good job on ignoring the issue and staying silent, mainstream games media!
Isn't that a little tautological?Journalists donating to a dev sugests they want to see them do well so people looking at coverage could be very wary to trust what they write about the dev and their games.
Meanwhile, IGN's frontpage is completely silent on what is or has been transpiring.
Same with Giant Bomb. and Gamespot too!
Good job on ignoring the issue and staying silent, mainstream games media!
One of the biggest problems with this campaign is that there is no endgame and there are no clear goals. Some people are claiming victory because they drove Jenn Frank -- one of the most talented writers in gaming -- to quit. If their goal is to get rid of as much thoughtful writing as possible, then this is truly terrifying.I still have no idea what the endgame of "gamergate" is. It feel like people want journalists to all be put into solitary confinement and be given games like meals through a slot in the door.