In the end, it's mostly the fault of the journalist, not the PR/publisher(s).
I'm afor an European gaming website (which I shall not name for obvious reasons).VIDYA GAME JOURNALIST
Uh. Is this kind of practice really this widespread and common knowledge? I thought moneyhats were a joke.We haven't even told you the story of how IGN's Colin Campbell, mentioned above and a winner of the GMA's "Games Industry Legend" award, is directly implicated in the practice of covertly selling review scores for advertising something this writer can verify from first-hand personal knowledge.
Maybe there's no way she could've got into the industry without 'getting dirty' like everyone else, still though. You can't have it both ways. You can't do the dirt and expect that you'll look clean forever.
Especially not as terribly as she hid her tracks
The more that is unearthed, the more Wainwright's corruption becomes a microcosm of the industry as a whole. This was linked to over at Rllmuk:
-Showered with gifts.
-Taken for superexpensive meal by developer.
-Drinking with them.
-PREVIEW COMING SOON
-Thinking about working for them.
Uh. Is this kind of practice really this widespread and common knowledge? I thought moneyhats were a joke.
TL;DR: accepting PF gifts etc doesn't make you corrupt, it just depends on the integrity of the 'journalist'
Umm, it's in your profile, dude.
Ign/fox/apples tree falling etcUh. Is this kind of practice really this widespread and common knowledge? I thought moneyhats were a joke.
Its not a development exactly, more something indicative of cowardly supposed journalists unwilling to get involved:
Chris Schilling is the self-described gaming critic (Twitter account here) and he has done work for The Guardian, Eurogamer, PC Gamer and many others.
His Twitter feed interaction with Rab over the last day involves heartlessly telling him to "move on" despite the fact that Rab lost his Eurogamer position less than twenty four hours ago. When veteran UK game dev Ste Pickford encourages Chris to actually write about the events - Chris declines. Rab responds with a seemingly exacerbated "Oh Chris".
You can really see how uncomfortable this entire furor makes some supposed journalists. Their utter inability to raise discussion or significant commentary over such a significant story, strongly suggests collective cowardice and/or editorial doctrine.
These two posts highlight exactly what Florence's article was all about. The one above is a case where being close with PR people is actually affecting your duties of reporting on issues and doing your job. The latter post needs absolutely no explanations.The more that is unearthed, the more Wainwright's corruption becomes a microcosm of the industry as a whole. This was linked to over at Rllmuk:
-Showered with gifts.
-Taken for superexpensive meal by developer.
-Drinking with them.
-PREVIEW COMING SOON
-Thinking about working for them.
Just gotta say, I feel pretty damn sorry for what Wainright is going through. She's merely the randomly chosen person who could have been any number of other people caught up in this. I would much rather this story not be about her, because it truly isn't. It's about the 'professional' culture she inherited as a game journalist in this day and age.
Come the fuck on man, I am far, far from being on that girls side but you are grossly putting words into her mouth when you say "Thinking about working for them". In that same passage she mentions both IGN and MTV, both of which cover(ed) games and is far more likely what she was insinuating... and then following up on when she had something posted on IGN.
No need to actually get hysterical over this.
I’ve found business cards from people at MTV, IGN and Remedy as well. So whole trip was a real experience for me and had got me thinking about a few things career wise as well. Need more confidence in myself!
Umm, it's in your profile, dude.
Just like refusing those gifts would.
Why would you feel sorry for her? The original comment about her was not particularly inflammatory. Her reaction to the article is what got it all truly started. Of course, she doesn't deserve personal insults but she does deserve all the scrutiny. Hopefully, this keeps going beyond her and some change comes of it.
Because it used to be thrown around every five minutes any time anyone would take exception to any score given to any game ever, more or less.Why would you think that it's a joke?
It might seem you are talking about gamer journalist on that one. And for a person that cant really add to the conversation you really have chimed in since yesterday:
Chris Chilling ‏@schillingc
Remember when we used to write about the games? That was fun, wasn't it?
Chris Chilling ‏@schillingc
@RichStanton I don't think it's so much the quotes as the implications of corruption. But yeah, slippery slope.
Chris Chilling ‏@schillingc
@stillgray The writer wasn't fired - he opted to leave his position as columnist.
Chris Chilling ‏@schillingc
@GasheadAu I just think this has ended up doing more harm than good, regardless of the intentions of the original piece.
Chris Chilling ‏@schillingc
@stepickford @GasheadAu There were good points in Rob's piece, but it fell apart because of a lack of facts. It's based on assumptions.
This bothers me a lot. When I finished my BA in Journalism 5 or 6 years ago and wanted to get into the industry without contacts, it was impossible. The nepotism of the industry is intensely strong. Absolutely irritating.Did these images make it over to this thread yet?
Internet detectives throw more light on the Square Enix / Wainwright connection.
People getting free shit for OTs?
Hey, I can do some cool OTs, give me some free shit!
What about a super UK combo games show?
Charlie Booker, Jaz Rignal, Rab and Ryan, etc....
"Scorn to be Wired" or something
It's partly that, but also because I don't think I can really add anything to the conversation, not least because I don't have many dealings with PRs in comparison with other writers. I'm not asking Rab personally to move on, it was more out of exasperation at seeing the same things over and over again in my Twitter feed. Also note that I'm saying lessons *should* and *will* be learned from all this.
It's nothing to do with being a pussy, or whatever. I don't call myself a journalist, I'm a games critic. My job is to write about games, which I believe is my strength. The politics of all this is complicated, and something I'm not familiar enough with to write about in any meaningful way. I'll write about the subject if and when I can bring something worthwhile to the table. But I think other people are in a better position to do that. Indeed, some already have.
Chris said:Games journalists who have kids: how do you have time to do stuff that isn't writing about games or sorting your kids out? Stumped.
Q12. Where do YOU want to see the industry in five years time?
CS Im a little disappointed that we dont see the kind of esoteric fare that enlivened the PS2 era these days, though were starting to see more original titles appear in the downloadable arena. I do have some concerns about digital distribution in that if retail releases end up invading the download space, those games currently making their name there could be squeezed out. Id like to see Japan rise again as a genuine force in modern gaming. Id also like to see some changes in games journalism. Id like to see an increased focus on quality rather than quantity or speed. You get sites constantly trying to be first rather than best. You get people posting deliberately controversial or contrarian opinions because they know theyll get a spike in their daily hits. Its getting harder for good journalists to make a decent living as sites and mags cut costs, and invariably the best writers move on. There are too many people setting up sites simply to get free games; they dont actually care about the quality theyre providing for their readers.
People getting free shit for OTs?
Hey, I can do some cool OTs, give me some free shit!
This sounds like "Thinking about working for (Insert Game Company)" to me:
I did OT for Haze.
Haze!
In the end, it's mostly the fault of the journalist, not the PR/publisher(s).
I'm afor an European gaming website (which I shall not name for obvious reasons). I've had my fair share of PR events, previews and such. During one of the previews, we dined at an expensive restaurant with the PR guy from a publisher I will not name (again, for obvious reasons).VIDYA GAME JOURNALIST
It's fun and all, but at the end of the day, I just care about the game and I write my opinion about that game. Sure, dining at a fancy restaurant is fun and all, but it shouldn't cloud your judgement. If they want to give me free food, that's their decision. It's not hard to still write an unbiased (although every review is subjective because of OPINIONS) article after getting all sorts of things from them.
TL;DR: accepting PF gifts etc doesn't make you corrupt, it just depends on the integrity of the 'journalist'
I did OT for Haze.
Haze!
I did OT for Haze.
Haze!
There's far too much of one at the expense of the other. And then when that gets called out, a wall of silence is erected for the sake of friendships.There's nothing wrong with being friendly to each other and having a nice talk. The thing is: it shouldn't have any influence on your review and that's where some people start to fail.
Because it used to be thrown around every five minutes any time anyone would take exception to any score given to any game ever, more or less.
The most disgusting thing in this whole thread is the news that there are Mountain Dew and Doritos cupcakes.
And that I want to try one.
It's Eurogamer who have come off the worst in my eyes.
I did OT for Haze.
Haze!
These two posts highlight exactly what Florence's article was all about. The one above is a case where being close with PR people is actually affecting your duties of reporting on issues and doing your job.
Come the fuck on man, I am far, far from being on that girls side but you are grossly putting words into her mouth when you say "Thinking about working for them". In that same passage she mentions both IGN and MTV, both of which cover(ed) games and is far more likely what she was insinuating... and then following up on when she had something posted on IGN.
No need to actually get hysterical over this.
In the end, it's mostly the fault of the journalist, not the PR/publisher(s).
robf said:But y'know, it's really hard to talk about fixing things when everyone's decided that they're going on an internet crusade for blood and vengeance. Aside from it being destructive and nasty, it's helping to keep the status quo by deflecting over any real issues whilst folks go hunting for that ol' smoking gun again. Which I guess is what some people really want? Because having to face the truth that some people are just a bit naive and inept isn't anywhere near as much fun?
namdrol said:Any discipline that requires public trust requires safeguards (transparency and oversight) to make sure that the system doesn't get corrupted from the outside. The problem isn't Wainwright (sp?), she is merely a symptom.
People are looking on the wrong side of the equation. There are pHds in media manipulation, top teir PR people make 7 figure incomes, and companies & nations devote a lot of resources to it.
It is much easier to target a daffy twat that has been used by the PR machine & doesn't know how to play the game properly then look at the system as whole. Systems are boring, individual personalities are not.
Moreover, much of the anger originates from the paranoia and cynicism that PR and marketing corruption has create through their manipulation of the media, and not just in gaming. http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/?lid=380#war [the big one in their PR profile, imo, was the fake "Iraqis Kill Kuwaiti Babies by Throwing Them Out of Incubators" story fabricated by the PR corporation and given in fake testimony to congress by a 15 year old girl in order to gain public support for Gulf War I.]
So when a 'journo' is caught being PR's bitch, even in something as inconsequential as gaming, there is going to be a bit of shitstorm. And, imo, the more light that can be brought to bear on this type of mass manipulation in any context is good. Chalking it up to naivety and youth belies the pernicious, hidden, and omnipresent nature of modern PR.
What
I thought it was more along the lines of super injunctions being granted while the case was still being considered, not that you're 'guilty' until proven 'innocent' [legal phrasing]
Glad we broke our legal system away from the UK all those forevers ago
Just gotta say, I feel pretty damn sorry for what Wainright is going through. She's merely the randomly chosen person who could have been any number of other people caught up in this. I would much rather this story not be about her, because it truly isn't. It's about the 'professional' culture she inherited as a game journalist in this day and age.
Okay, I need to address this. I'm not close with any PR people. I'm based well outside London where most events are held. I'm a freelancer who rarely attends any events of this nature (I wasn't at the GMAs, for example) and any code that comes my way is usually from an editor of a site rather than the PR. In some cases, I'll need to contact the PR to ask them to send the code direct to me, but beyond that I don't speak with PRs much at all.
Quite apart from that, it's not my job to report on this. I'm a freelance writer who writes about games. I'll talk about the industry, but I rarely get into the politics of this stuff because it's something I have little experience with. There are people better-equipped to talk about these things. Not every film reviewer discusses the issues at the heart of Hollywood. Not every music critic will talk about how piracy affects the industry. That's not their role, and they know they're not the right person for the job in those instances. Same goes for me in this one.
You know why journalism has strict ethical rules on "Nothing more expensive than a cup of coffee?" Do you know why those of us with degrees are required to take journalistic ethics classes?In the end, it's mostly the fault of the journalist, not the PR/publisher(s).
I'm afor an European gaming website (which I shall not name for obvious reasons). I've had my fair share of PR events, previews and such. During one of the previews, we dined at an expensive restaurant with the PR guy from a publisher I will not name (again, for obvious reasons).VIDYA GAME JOURNALIST
It's fun and all, but at the end of the day, I just care about the game and I write my opinion about that game. Sure, dining at a fancy restaurant is fun and all, but it shouldn't cloud your judgement. If they want to give me free food, that's their decision. It's not hard to still write an unbiased (although every review is subjective because of OPINIONS) article after getting all sorts of things from them.
TL;DR: accepting PF gifts etc doesn't make you corrupt, it just depends on the integrity of the 'journalist'
The comment section on future wainwright articles will be interesting to see. I hope she can't write a single article without the comments being filled with blame on her.
Understood. What's flooring me however is that this whole thread came from Florence suggesting Wainwright's behavior could be misinterpreted as suspicious (and from her reaction to it).Yeah, it's certainly overused. But it's also real. It's one reason why people are often very cautious of exclusive reviews. UBI caught heat once because they told a magazine that they'd only send them a review copy of Assassin's Creed 2 if they guaranteed that it would receive a high score. So, it's not always about money hatting.
No, that's just overgeneralization. By your logic, it is impossible to write a negative review/article if the PR gifts/food/whatever was excellent? Because, we've had plenty negatieve reviews about bad games, even if the PR was good. I remember getting a very cool Brink PR package, but that game was awful. Thus it received an awful review. PR gift was cool, but that's it.