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[oni-link]

What are some examples of games that really nail backtracking

Normally this is the kind of thing that puts people off, its padding, its dull, it's just lazy design

I feel like metroidvanias do a good job with backtracking because often you have new items or abilities when you go though old areas, often revealing new paths or hidden items

I was going to say going back to get the sniper rifle in MGS was an example of bad backtracking, as that seems like it was used just to make the already short game a little longer, but because that's one of the longest parts of the game where you have just stealth and no bosses/cutscenes to contend with, I actually always really enjoy that section

What do you think GAF? Is backtracking always annoying? Can it be done well? What are some examples of games that do it well/poorly?

 

[malfcn]

Spencer Mansion.

 

[old manatee]

Re4, the Village.
Left 4 Dead 2, Hard Rain.

I guess if you make it dark and rainy the 2nd time I'm sold.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

I was ok with the back tracking in dead space

 

[xxANTIMONITORxx]

Halo: CE

Spoiler

jk

 

[Vashetti]

Resident Evil 2 - Police Station

 

[Phawx]

Seems like this is going to be a Resident Evil thread. I guess other survival-horror games. Alone in the Dark, Clock Tower, etc.

 

[SerTapTap]

Metroid Fusion had an interesting idea--the elevator system limits how much backtracking you have to do, and eventually you CAN break out between areas which is also cool. Obviously the elevator system is pretty flawed though due to how it forces your hand exploration-wise. But if it were implemented in a better way I think it could be great--basically keep not-quite-fast-travel between sectors, while keeping the actual level design closer to standard Metroidvania stuff.

I was ok with the back tracking in dead space

I didn't mind the actual backtracking, but the story motivations for it were pretty terrible. "Isaac this broke! Isaac go fix this too! Isaac!!"

 

[Shuggananas]

Re4, the Village.
Left 4 Dead 2, Hard Rain

Oh yes.

Zelda games if that counts, you revisit areas where you can do more stuff with your new items

 

[kvk1]

FF 13-2 is pretty clever in doing this.

 

[Kuramu]

When the gameplay itself is fun, so is backtracking.
I actually love backtracking in good games because those places become more real to me.

 

[antitrop]

Resident Evil 1 and 4.

 

[muteki]

Backtracking works best when you discover it on your own, as the result of thorough exploration. Things like Super Metroid nail this. When you are flat out told "now you need to go back to x" then it gets annoying.

In just about every case though it is about saving time and effort on content, but there are ways to do it right.

 

[oni-link]

Seems like this is going to be a Resident Evil thread. I guess other survival-horror games. Alone in the Dark, Clock Tower, etc.

I really want to play Remake, does anyone know if the PSN release is cross buy? I only have a PS3 atm but will buy it soon if I can play it on PS4 when I pick one up

 

[JayEH]

I think DMC3 (and I guess 1) do a good job of it since it takes me a while to realize I've been to that location before.

 

[Maggots]

Skyward Sword

they did a great job of utilizing 3 areas 9 different ways

 

[ZeroCDR]

The first few Resident Evil games for sure, Code: Veronica was really annoying though.

RE4's backtrack areas are more like a natural flow than actually having to backtrack, but I suppose it counts, extremely well done.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Soul Reaver. Soul Reaver 2 not so much (in my opinion).

Metroid series, as mentioned (Metroid Prime 1 doing it specially good for me).

I honestly didn't mind the backtracking in Halo CE because it made sense in the context of the story (you go in, you go out trying to scape). If anything I think people have an issue with some of the corridors/circular rooms more than with the backtracking itself. So I'd say Halo CE.

Zelda games if that counts, you revisit areas where you can do more stuff with your new items

This is a great example, thank you. Zelda does most of its "backtracking" in the overworld, which is always fresh (plus, you have multiple modes of transportation). The backtracking in dungeons is usually kept to a minimum. (Talking about LTTP, OoT, WW and TP).

 

[Kill3r7]

Metroid or Metroidvania games.

 

[Tawpgun]

I assume Metroidvania games, open world, and Dark Souls esque games are disqualifed from this?

Halo CE had it pretty bad but I enjoyed it in Silent Cartographer (going around the island to get in, going all the way down and fighting your way back up)

And going back to the Pillar of Autumn at the end of the game was cool.


Destiny does it ok in that it reuses areas and makes them feel different again. I hear that Black Garden backwards strike is awesome

 

[oni-link]

When the gameplay itself is fun, so is backtracking.
I actually love backtracking in good games because those places become more real to me.

Yeah this too, when it's done well It can make the world feel more connected and alive

And I love moments when you get a new item or ability and then think "ah now I can make that jump I couldn't before in that area near the start"

That always beats "hey, go back to this area now for this convoluted reason"

 

[SweetJohnnyCage]

Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night are pretty much the best examples of backtracking done right. You run into doors that you can't open, ledges that are just out of reach, that one room completely filled with spikes, etc, very early on. Then you randomly get a powerup a couple hours later, and then you sit there for a bit feeling stuck. That is, until you remember that one door back in the beginning of the castle that you couldn't reach, and suddenly the map opens up even more to you now that you have the double jump.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Definitely Metroid. Although Prime 2 could be infuriating with the parallel worlds mechanic.

 

[Overside]

When its done well its not called backtracking, its called exploration and adventure.

Metroid prime has examples of both.

You go all over the same areas to get to new areas and new powers during the course of the game. Nobody called it backtracking, it was exploring and adventuring.

It didnt start getting called backtracking until you had to get the chozo artifacts, which lead you to no new areas, and gave you nothing new in return, and were literally nothing more than keys.

Destroyed the pacing of the game too.

Its a testament to the rest of the game that it was still as fantastic as it was, even with the grocery list of keys you had go back and pick up at the end.

 

[BouncyFrag]

Halo: CE

Spoiler

jk

You're not getting the full Halo:CE experience if you don't get lost at least once in your playthrough.

 

[-MD-]

Spencer Mansion.

First post etc.

Best answer.

 

[georly]

I feel like good backtracking is where every time you are forced to return to an old location, either something has changed completely or the way you play it has changed completely.

Stuff like the Speed Booster in super metroid means you fly through old corridors and the backtracking no longer feels like a chore. Resident evil usually changed enemies when you returned to an area, meaning you had to approach familiar places in new ways. Chrono trigger made you return to certain areas (like Guardia Castle), but the circumstances were always different when you did. Xeodrifter basically avoided back-tracking altogether by creating big circular stages so you only had to backtrack for the first part of the area (usually with a new upgrade, so it was quicker/easier). Skyward sword made you revisit areas a bunch of times, but either the goals changed or the environment changed (like the forest flooding).

 

[daveo42]

It's a rarity for me that backtracking is ever good or worthwhile. I'd say most RPGs that do it get it completely wrong because of random encounters mucking up the whole thing. Maybe RE1 and 2 because it either makes sense from a story or location perspective.

I was ok with the back tracking in dead space

What about the backtracking in Dead Space 2?

Edit: Chrono Trigger does it well because it makes sense in the course of the story and doesn't feel monotonous or just a way to stretch out a game.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

When its done well its not called backtracking, its called exploration and adventure.

Metroid prime has examples of both.

You go all over the same areas to get to new areas and new powers during the course of the game. Nobody called it backtracking, it was exploring and adventuring.

It didnt start getting called backtracking until you had to get the chozo artifacts, which lead you to no new areas, and gave you nothing new in return, and were literally nothing more than keys.

Destroyed the pacing of the game too.

Its a testament to the rest of the game that it was still as fantastic as it was, even with the grocery list of keys you had go back and pick up at the end.

You know, I've never understood this complaint, and it's the same for Wind Waker: if you're exploring the game and looking at stuff because you want to, it's very likely that by the end of the game you wont be left with a "grocery list of keys" to go and find. You'll have already found most of them. If you limit yourself to doing what the game points out, one step at a time, then yes, you'll have a "fetch quest" at the end. Same for Wind Waker. I wanted (because I was in love with the game) to visit every nook and cranny on the map. So by the time the triforce fetch quest came, I had already found a bunch of pieces of the triforce.

You're not getting the full Halo:CE experience if you don't get lost at least once in your playthrough.

There are arrows on the ground. They point in the direction you need to move. Then when you're getting back you know you have to go against the arrows. It's basic, really.

 

[Stone Ocean]

When its done well its not called backtracking, its called exploration and adventure.

This. Good backtracking is when you actually want to backtrack, not because the game tells you to, but because you remember a place you might be able to get to now that you have more abilities and you want to go there and see what's inside.

Bad backtracking is when the game is just trying to add padding by forcing you to do the same shit you already did. See Devil May Cry 4, Simon's Quest, etc.

 

[foxtrot3d]

MGS1. Screw the haters.

 

[xandaca]

If a game gives you some shortcuts and/or the chance to do new things along the way during its backtracking segments, that's not too bad. For example, I feel like the backtracking in the original Paper Mario is generally OK and at least (mostly) respects the player's time, whereas Thousand Year Door quite often just sends players back and forth between distant points for no good reason and with little to do along the way. A prime example would be the bit near the end of the game where you have to

Spoiler

find a bob-omb character by visiting every single location in the game in succession, only for him to eventually turn up back where you started - with nothing gained or done along the way except extensive walking.

So yes, Metroid would be a good example of backtracking made tolerable, although the distances you have to cover and more complex maps in the 3D versions can make it frustrating when poorly thought-out.

 

[UncleCross]

I honestly didn't mind the backtracking in Halo CE because it made sense in the context of the story (you go in, you go out trying to scape). If anything I think people have an issue with some of the corridors/circular rooms more than with the backtracking itself. So I'd say Halo CE.

).

Halo CE would be my choice as well. Like you said, it made sense in the context of the story. Plus not everything was the same in the backtracking sections...time of day was different, different enemies or enemy placement, levels looked different (e.g. destroyed Pillar of Autumn), etc...

Having to go back out the same way you came in made it feel more like a real place. Unlike later Halo games where once you hit the end of the level you conveniently start the next one somewhere completely different. That makes the levels feel way too videogamey.

 

[EGM1966]

Silent Hill 4: The Room.

Yes seriously. As defined by the narrative and the revealed psychology of the antagonist you backtrack through all areas to finish them off an clear the way to the final confrontation.

It makes total narrative sense. Most hated it though. But it actually worked if you paid attention to the narrative.

 

[MadHitz]

The God of War games have quite a bit of backtracking, but they keep it fresh with new enemies popping up. It always terrified me when I had to backtrack in these games, because that almost always guaranteed a confrontation with a new boss or barrage of enemies.

 

[AlStrong]

I enjoyed it in Otogi.

 

[zrubenmtz]

Skyward Sword

they did a great job of utilizing 3 areas 9 different ways

mmmm... well, yeah, I guess you're right.

but I can't avoid thinking that it was creativity "forced by" laziness/short dev time.

 

[Sephzilla]

DMC3 I feel did this fairly well

 

[Brianimaniac]

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Plus not everything was the same in the backtracking sections...time of day was different, different enemies or enemy placement, levels looked different (e.g. destroyed Pillar of Autumn), etc...

This is also true. There are different enemies, three way battles between flood and covenant on your way back, destruction/debris, etc.

Unlike later Halo games where once you hit the end of the level you conveniently start the next one somewhere completely different. That makes the levels feel way too videogamey.

I don't know, I feel like there was also a place for that sort of design in the story. When you're playing as MC you're moving from Earth to Delta Halo, then High Charity, etc. When playing as The Arbiter you're also moving along with the story (I love the escape from the Heretic facility in the beginning). Same goes for Halo 3 and Reach, though I haven't played H4.

http://media.ign.com/games/image/object/142/14273491/Batman-Arkham-Asylum_360_US_ESRB.jpg

I feel bad for not posting this earlier. Damn.

 

[Dark_castle]

Dark Souls, unlocking shortcut felt good, though I guess that's not much of backtracking.

 

[KatamariOnTheRocks]

Duke Nukem 3D pulled off backtracking perfectly, allowing you to traverse through levels several different ways while requiring you to go back and sometimes modify the environment such as destroying obstacles that were initially impossible to pass with newly acquired weapons or to unlock secret doors with hidden passage ways that twist around the initially "impassable" point. There's a deep sense of satisfaction in seeing how the levels all connected when you would find a new way to get around rather than having a single linear A to B way of designing levels.

 

[stuminus3]

Then you randomly get a powerup a couple hours later, and then you sit there for a bit feeling stuck. That is, until you remember that one door back in the beginning of the castle that you couldn't reach, and suddenly the map opens up even more to you now that you have the double jump.

This is the worst kind of backtracking. You should never be "stuck" in the hope that you remember some random little detail from earlier. The game should take you there naturally.

 

[Mikeside]

I liked the backtracking in Dead Space - it felt really right going to a tram stop, having a nightmare of a time in that area, then working your way back to the tram stop for the next nightmare.

I wish the sequels had the same feeling of working your way around a massive ship area by area.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

I'll say most of the Metroid games, but I cannot in good conscience say any of the Castlevania games from SOTN on other than maybe Ecclesia, which almost had no backtracking. Where Metroid has each area connected in multiple ways that make it easy to go between them, 'Vania has each area connect to 2, maybe 3, other areas that are spread out quite a bit along with teleporters that only make traveling between distant areas just as much of a chore.

 

[hydruxo]

I'd say Guacamelee. You learn more moves and then go back through sections you couldn't before. It's really well done in that game.

 

[Blablurn]

Metal Gear Solid 2

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Pac-Man

 

[animax]

Games that have a switchable light/dark world make backtracking much more meaningful (Zelda LTTP, Zelda ALBW, Metroid Prime 2)

 

[Funyarinpa]

Why is it that no one remembers how Dead Space's level design really was?

Spoiler

Find "hub" after a few corridors > Go a long way, fix stuff > a surprise door opens so that you spend less than half the time you wasted going there, because the door leads to a shortcut to the "hub" area.

Still love the game, though.

I'm sad no one said System Shock and System Shock 2. (SS1 and SS2 spoilers)

Spoiler

SS1, right before the final level, requires you to find a six-number code to destroy the station reactor. You find the code (digit by digit) on screens next to "CPU nodes", terminals that you destroy every level to advance to the next. Until you get to the final level, you can go as far back as the very room you start the game in. Doing that feels just amazing, and this game is more than 20 years old.

System Shock 2 also lets you traverse the ship to your liking up until the penultimate level.