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Gamespot: Can We Build a Gaming PC on a Console Budget?

Yeah, I get that, but I just don't see the point.

IF you're going to make a gaming PC. You should create one to harness the true potential of what a PC Gaming is about.

Whether you see the point or not doesn't matter. That's what the thread and article is about.

Match a console's price and performance? If you wanted that, you could just get a console and enjoy all the exclusives too.

Then you would miss out on PC exclusives and everything else that comes with PC gaming with the exception of the pinnacle of performance and graphics which comes with the higher end.
 
And if you want to enjoy a stable 1080p60 on console you are flatout shit out of luck.

There is way too much salt in this thread holy shit.

Gamespot is being lenient, most people already have a keyboard, mouse, case, power supply, etc for a PC, just like most people have a TV, so if they actually subtracted those things from overall cost it would be way way more powerful than the next gen consoles for a similar price, but they aren't doing that, they are basically playing on hard mode, and people are still getting pissed.

you are right.
 
I can't join the darkside till it can feed the need for my speed.

I say this as a former color accuracy whore it does matter but only when input or refreshrate issues are solved. I almost wish I had never touched anything above 60hz cause I'd be in ips heaven right now. Though I am thinking of adding Qnix or something to fill out games that can't maintain the fps for lightboost.
Really, it's just the issue of backlight that drives me mad. ALL PC monitors suffer from this. I could not find a single monitor with local dimming (which isn't even common on TVs).

Right now, despite its own limitations, I use my Pioneer Kuro for all gaming. Blacks levels are as dark as an OLED display without any of the sudden drop in shadow detail.

I use a 1440p and 1080p monitor at my desk. I've looked long and hard for replacements with real blacks but there are zero even if you're willing to drop a lot if cash.

I'm dying to scrap one of those displays and go back to a CRT but they are hard to find in Europe.
 
Asking if a PC built today will be relevant five years from now doesn't make any sense. A PC built today will have problems with games releasing 5 years from now because those games will aim to make use of the new hardware released in between. Of course, dated hardware will struggle, but because games on PC will be more demanding on average. If you want to play games that look similar to those on consoles, you will have no problem running them. Pick any game released in the last two/three years for 360/PS3, they all look really bad, with lots of graphical artifacts: tearing, bad IQ, framerate problems, low resolution... any graphical problem you name, you get it. And that's exactly how a new game will look five years from now on a PC built today. That's exactly what min specs mean.
 
Yeah but that $550 PC is big and ugly, and it doesn't come with tech support or a controller. Besides I can get an X1 with Titanfall, 12 months of xbox live, and other stuff for $450.
 
Then you would miss out on PC exclusives and everything else that comes with PC gaming with the exception of the pinnacle of performance and graphics which comes with the higher end.

This. The console exclusives are mostly mediocre games that are restricted to the consoles for the sake of forcing people to buy your console if they want the game, PC exclusives exist for so many different reasons, all of which are better, I don't know why people every bring up console exclusives in this comparison, they don't even come close to comparing.

Yeah but that $550 PC is big and ugly, and it doesn't come with tech support or a controller. Besides I can get an X1 with Titanfall, 12 months of xbox live, and other stuff for $450.

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They should use the ps4 price if they're going to do this. For $400 you're going to have a pretty crappy system. Even if the PC matches the performance, they just are not as easy to use in the living room as a console.

Completely missing the point, jesus christ.
 
They should use the ps4 price if they're going to do this. For $400 you're going to have a pretty crappy system. Even if the PC matches the performance, they just are not as easy to use in the living room as a console.
 
Yeah but that $550 PC is big and ugly, and it doesn't come with tech support or a controller. Besides I can get an X1 with Titanfall, 12 months of xbox live, and other stuff for $450.

Xbox One is big and ugly too. You're writing on the tech support site right now. It doesn't come with a controller but it's like extra $40 or something like that and mouse plays many games including Titanfall better. No need to worry about none of that Xbox Live nonsense either.
 
Asking if a PC built today will be relevant five years from now doesn't make any sense. A PC built today will have problems with games releasing 5 years from now because those games will aim to make use of the new hardware released in between. Of course, dated hardware will struggle, but because games on PC will be more demanding on average. If you want to play games that look similar to those on consoles, you will have no problem running them. Pick any game released in the last two/three years for 360/PS3, they all look really bad, with lots of graphical artifacts: tearing, bad IQ, framerate problems, low resolution... any graphical problem you name, you get it. And that's exactly how a new game will look five years from now on a PC built today. That's exactly what min specs mean.

ps3/360 released 8 yrs ago. what pc from 8 yrs ago can even render ac4 let alone play it for min specs?
 
Same price as consoles + upgradeable so you're not looking at the same quality of graphics for 5+ years. Can't argue against that.
 
Really, it's just the issue of backlight that drives me mad. ALL PC monitors suffer from this. I could not find a single monitor with local dimming (which isn't even common on TVs).

Right now, despite its own limitations, I use my Pioneer Kuro for all gaming. Blacks levels are as dark as an OLED display without any of the sudden drop in shadow detail.

I use a 1440p and 1080p monitor at my desk. I've looked long and hard for replacements with real blacks but there are zero even if you're willing to drop a lot if cash.

I'm dying to scrap one of those displays and go back to a CRT but they are hard to find in Europe.

Why you gotta remind me all I see is the back light or the light tinge around the perimeter of the monitor. I feel your pain as I just remembered you're in europe now. If ever find another GDM fw900 I will go half and half on the shipping if you want. They are easily still one of the best to use and I had one personally calibrated to max as I had access to the back port and colorimeter with cal and spyder software.

Thanks for the Kuro recommendation might have to invest in one for casual play. Had a friend recommend that as of late and thinking odd conincidence to hear it so soon again.

ps3/360 released 8 yrs ago. what pc from 8 yrs ago can even render ac4 let alone play it for min specs?
360 did, not the PS3 and I'm referring to the launch period. By the time PS3 released certain pc gamers had access to the nvidia 8800 cards which does play games better in various instances more than the consoles do.
 
Yeah but that $550 PC is big and ugly, and it doesn't come with tech support or a controller. Besides I can get an X1 with Titanfall, 12 months of xbox live, and other stuff for $450.

I can find better looking PC cases, that don't look like a 90's vcr.

The PS4 on the other hand...
 
Nice selective highlighting. I said cheap 2008 rigs, not 2008 rigs with a card that launched at $650. If anything you proved my point.

And we'll let time decide whether your 770 will match the PS4 (or even run the games) in 5 years time. As I've said before and history has shown repeatedly, developers can squeeze an unexpected amount of performance from closed systems.



There is no doubt PC always has a performance edge and will always be at "the top" so to speak. The key point is that many gamers aren't interested in the race, they are interested in value, price/performance ratio, and yes, long term viability. Seriously, who enjoys forces upgrades? Even conceding that the 360 GPU was higher end for its time than the PS4's GPU is now, that is only part of the reason why it's still viable. The other is that developers learn the ins and outs of closed hardware and optimize the hell out of their games to provide the best experience possible. I firmly believe that will remain the case for this generation as well.

Well, now that's a replay to my post. Yes, my setup was high end, but it didn't merely kept up with the 360/Ps3, It was significantly ahead. One time I had Mirror's Edge on the same monitor running on PC and the Ps3, it was like night and day. A lesser system can keep up without a doubt.

However, the Ps3 and 360 where high-end kits for their time. No 2005 PC could have kept with them, no matter how high-end they were. Cell was a beast of CPU and Xenos was more advanced than anything on the consumer market at release. And you are right to point that out. Which comes to my second point: a mid-end 2010-11 PC can compete with at least the XBOne, and will have problems with the Ps4 mostly due to VRAM, is not the same scenario at all, which is what all this articles are pointing out.
 
ps4 is only 400 and i dont have to worry about upgrading for like 7-8 years and never have to worry about minimum system requirements and i get the great console exclusives and ps exclusives....so yeah imma go with ps4. but between xbone and PC i'd probably go with PC since xbox doesn't have many exclusive franchises i care about.
 
Gamespot is being lenient, most people already have a keyboard, mouse, case, power supply, etc for a PC, just like most people have a TV, so if they actually subtracted those things from overall cost it would be way way more powerful than the next gen consoles for a similar price, but they aren't doing that, they are basically playing on hard mode, and people are still getting pissed.

Even if you consider the dwindling number of people who use desktops instead of laptops, most of those people don't own a case or a power supply that is going to be suited to a gaming PC. The PSU off of their $400 Dell box is not going to cut the mustard, and the case will likely be too small.
 
However, the Ps3 and 360 where high-end kits for their time. No 2005 PC could have kept with them, no matter how high-end they were. Cell was a beast of CPU and Xenos was more advanced than anything on the consumer market at release. And you are right to point that out. Which comes to my second point: a mid-end 2010 PC can compete with at least the XBOne, and will have problems with the Ps4 mostly due to VRAM, is not the same scenario at all, which is what all this articles are pointing out.

I keep seeing the PS3 mentioned when it shouldn't be. If the PS3 is being compared to anything of it's age it didn't do squat be it launch or after. PS3 was all hype when it came to specs which console and pc gamers saw quite well last generation. Not to knock it's exclusive but the multiplatform performance should've been more consistent instead of what we got.

Cell was a good kit shame the shit gpu attached to PS3 wasn't. 360 next to gamecube or PS4 is one of the most balanced 3d architectures of any console to exists.

Even if you consider the dwindling number of people who use desktops instead of laptops, most of those people don't own a case or a power supply that is going to be suited to a gaming PC. The PSU off of their $400 Dell box is not going to cut the mustard, and the case will likely be too small.

While this is true you can easily spend a lot on a good mouse compared to a psu or case. My razor, logitech, and sensei gear all were more than my case or psu which handle all of my overclocked stuff just fine. You can transplant plenty of small things on most modern machines in to starter setup.
 
I think PC gaming is more expensive up front, but it is significantly cheaper in the long run because of the games.

Yep, buying console games vs PC games is wildly expensive especially with how fast PC games drop in price and have Amazon/Steam/Green Man Gaming sales. Upgrading the PC down the line should even be cheap because of all of the money you saved.
 
Here's an 8800GTS (released December 2007 for ~$300) running Battlefield 4 at higher settings, resolution and framerate than the console versions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtXRKUj_fGc

I'm aware that it's using a modern CPU but still, it's pretty impressive how viable it is to use an older card.

could you build a pc in december 2007 that had that gpu and still play bf4 for under 500?

as to the people saying why add in cost of keyboard/mouse, many don't have extra keyboards or mice laying around because they only have a laptop or tablet. Also many, are like me and can't upgrade their current pc due to buying one from walmart or other big box store that just isn't very upgradeable. I would have to replace everything except my monitor to get a pc comparable in power to a ps4. that can't be done with 400.


Yep, buying console games vs PC games is wildly expensive especially with how fast PC games drop in price and have Amazon/Steam/Green Man Gaming sales. Upgrading the PC down the line should even be cheap because of all of the money you saved.

what is the price ds2 right now on pc? from what i looked at its the same as console. same for just about any new game. watch_dogs will be the same. If i have to wait 3 months for the game to drop in price below console, why don't i just rent it with Gamefly for console? its actually cheaper than the price drop and i get to play it day 1.

seeing as many are looking for best deals on parts such as amazon warehouse or other open box deals, a ps4 just ended on ebay for under 350..
 
Why you gotta remind me all I see is the black light or the light tinge around the perimeter of the monitor. I feel your pain as I just remembered you're in europe now. If ever find another GDM fw900 I will go half and half on the shipping if you want. They are easily still one of the best to use and I had one personally calibrated to max as I had access to the back port and colorimeter with cal and spyder software.

Thanks for the Kuro recommendation might have to invest in one for casual play. Had a friend recommend that as of late and thinking odd conincidence to hear it so soon again.
Yeah, I'm dying for a GDM fw900 right now. When I moved I had to leave my CRT collection behind. The LCDs are certainly useful for the work I do now, no doubt, but they sapped my will to ever play games from my desk. It sucks as I used to be huge into PC games but once LCDs took off it absolutely ruined my love of desk gaming. :\

The Kuro isn't perfect, obviously, as it still has a bit of image noise inherent in plasmas when viewed from close proximity (I sit about 5ft away so it's not an issue but if you sit closer it can be noticed). Also, motion isn't perfect. Motion resolution is still very good but CRTs and lightboosted monitors are better. Since I mostly only play single player games, however, the motion is more than adequate and every other aspect of the display is so good. I've spent some time playing with an LG OLED TV recently and, of course, other portable OLED displays. They're great and I hope they replace LCD eventually, but the black levels aren't actually completely black. It's very comparable to a Kuro. If you have a tiny bit of bias lighting (even a strip of blue LEDs) behind the TV the Kuro appears 100% dark when black areas are displayed. As a result, everything really feels vibrant and rich.

I mirror everything on my PC and it is not in the same room so I can easily watch all three at once. It's even more eye opening when you see them side by side. Black screens on the LCDs are basically gray in comparison. The IPS 1440p LCD is actually far and away the worst of the bunch in this regard. Just abysmal. My 680 can't handle games at 1440p very well, though, so I wouldn't use it anyways. I recently replayed Thief II and that, more than anything, really demonstrated why I cannot stand this problem. LCD backlights actually destroy atmosphere. Thief was one of the most atmospheric games of its day and, on the right display, still can be. On an LCD, though? So much is lost. The same is true of any horror/dark game, really.

It's great that you can appreciate a good display, though, as most people these days can't and it's made me take a knee-jerk reaction against LCDs. I'm really super bummed that they've basically taken over the industry and lament the fact that most R&D money goes into fixing inherently broken LCD technology. Lightboost is great but it still requires extra hardware to function. It's not something an LCD can achieve on its own.

Between LCD and the movement towards all digital games I've become rather negative on the PC side and these threads really trigger that. I'm just the old man yelling at the cloud now. I really support consoles primarily based on the fact that I can still purchase boxed products that work without a back-end connection. Had Microsoft's plan taken off I would have very much avoided the system altogether.

They should use the ps4 price if they're going to do this. For $400 you're going to have a pretty crappy system. Even if the PC matches the performance, they just are not as easy to use in the living room as a console.
This is true. As someone who has been using a PC in the living room since 2003, I've yet to find a truly perfect solution for all situations. Once you're in game using a controller, it's great, but there are a lot of things that pop up which demand alternative input. I've taken to using a Lenovo keyboard/trackpad combo that's basically a wide remote. It's not good for gaming but it works well in allowing all other functions to be possible very easily.
 
ps3/360 released 8 yrs ago. what pc from 8 yrs ago can even render ac4 let alone play it for min specs?
What kind of argument are you trying to make? That consoles are better because you can play games in 8 years old hardware that wouldn't run on 8 years old PCs? Do you think it is because the specs? Do you really think that? See, you can't run AC4 on 8 years old hardware because nobody cares about 8 years old hardware except console customers. The devs aimed to have 1080p@60fps on mid range PCs, not making it work on 8 years old hardware.
 
could you build a pc in december 2007 that had that gpu and still play bf4 for under 500?

as to the people saying why add in cost of keyboard/mouse, many don't have extra keyboards or mice laying around because they only have a laptop or tablet. Also many, are like me and can't upgrade their current pc due to buying one from walmart or other big box store that just isn't very upgradeable. I would have to replace everything except my monitor to get a pc comparable in power to a ps4. that can't be done with 400.

seeing as many are looking for best deals on parts such as amazon warehouse or other open box deals, a ps4 just ended on ebay for under 350..

Yep cause me and certain gaffers built crysis machines that year proving the case.

Also while I understand your pain if you buy garbage don't expect it to be upgradable. One reason I try to tell consumers not to buy from walmart or big names is cause they basically sell you a over priced console that functions as a pc. Consumers should always take some responsbility in their choices if they don't that is on no one but them. This has been the case since the 90's yet for the most part until the last few years consumers went on buying a lot of desktop garbage instead of going custom which is not hard if you let a pc store nearby do it.
 
They also forgot to add the price of a blu-ray drive, they should be using a mini-itx mb and case, and they're going to need to replace the CPU and case fans to match the noise level of a console. Around $800 would be a reasonable price for a console equivalent. I just think they're spreading bad info.
 
what is the price ds2 right now on pc? from what i looked at its the same as console. same for just about any new game. watch_dogs will be the same. If i have to wait 3 months for the game to drop in price below console, why don't i just rent it with Gamefly for console? its actually cheaper than the price drop and i get to play it day 1.

I pre-ordered Ds2 for 28,50, i get the key a day before release so i can still pre-load (assuming the game gets one) not that it matters with my internet speed but it's always nice.
 
I've thought about trying to build a PC to hook up to my TV and play with a controller. I figure with Steam sales, I can supplement my console library with PC only titles cheaply. I'm not sure how to set it up to have it mirror that console experience though. I just want a simple interface and to be able to turn it on and go straight to a games menu without needing a keyboard. I've got a copy of windows 7 (upgrade home premium version) but I don't know if I should just wait for windows 9 to release.
 
Yep cause me and certain gaffers built crysis machines that year proving the case.

Also while I understand your pain if you buy garbage don't expect it to be upgradable. One reason I try to tell consumers not to buy from walmart or big names is cause they basically sell you a over priced console that functions as a pc. Consumers should always take some responsbility in their choices if they don't that is on no one but them.

thats not my point. my point is most consumers that have a pc, have one like mine that they can't upgrade. yet, many on here say oh everyone can just get a couple parts and upgrade cheaper than the cost of a console. its just not true.

where is the video of a 2007 built pc running bf4?
 
They also forgot to add the price of a blu-ray drive, they should be using a mini-itx mb and case, and they're going to need to replace the CPU and case fans to match the noise level of a console. Around $800 would be a reasonable price for a console equivalent. I just think they're spreading bad info.

What's the point of the blu-ray drive?
 
ps3/360 released 8 yrs ago. what pc from 8 yrs ago can even render ac4 let alone play it for min specs?

exactly. with so many unoptimized you are actually gonna need a stronger PC just to run games in the future. a console is the more future proof option because developers have standard hardware to design for menaing every ps3 owner can run the game where as PC owners certain people behind a certain level of GPU are left behind :(
 
Here's an 8800GTS (released December 2007 for ~$300) running Battlefield 4 at higher settings, resolution and framerate than the console versions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtXRKUj_fGc

I'm aware that it's using a modern CPU but still, it's pretty impressive how viable it is to use an older card.

The entire 8800 variation must of been the top cards at the time because my 8800 GT has been handling everything I throw at it great at highish setting for such an old card.
And I got it for $30. What a steal

My only problem is that they used an open-box item which aren't always available.
 
and i can play and beat both south park and DS2 for just 25 and still get another game or two if i want, through gamefly. and before you say oh thats just renting. I don't play games after i beat them.

But i do play them and want to be able to play them again whenever i feel like it, though i can see why someone who can be done with a game after beating it would be more into renting or maybe even a netflix like service for gaming, it's just something that will never sit right with me.
 
exactly. with so many unoptimized you are actually gonna need a stronger PC just to run games in the future. a console is the more future proof option because developers have standard hardware to design for menaing every ps3 owner can run the game where as PC owners certain people behind a certain level of GPU are left behind :(

This argument makes no sense considering this isn't eight years ago and the new consoles are essentially PCs.

You had this argument back in 2006. You don't have it now.
 
I've thought about trying to build a PC to hook up to my TV and play with a controller. I figure with Steam sales, I can supplement my console library with PC only titles cheaply. I'm not sure how to set it up to have it mirror that console experience though. I just want a simple interface and to be able to turn it on and go straight to a games menu without needing a keyboard. I've got a copy of windows 7 (upgrade home premium version) but I don't know if I should just wait for windows 9 to release.

Steam o/s
 
PS+, Sony's ongoing Flash sales, the rise of indies on consoles and retailer markdowns in general make that less and less true. You can pick up nearly any new retail console release for $40 if you wait a couple months, and if you wait for as long as you are currently for those huge steam deals, you can snag some great deals either though the marketplace or retail as well.
Is it? Personally I waited only 5 months and Batman Arkham Origins was 10 dollars on pc...

The whole problem with consoles that the "B" games or middle market that supported then is gone, and games related are either AAA or indies, and both are better on PC. And you have to pay for basic functionality.

Next few years will be interesting, and unless consoles make a giant shift, they are going the way of the BETAMAX. Even Japanese games are coming to PC.

Amazon released their first casual console, and watch for the yearly upgrade, and Google will release one too.
 
exactly. with so many unoptimized you are actually gonna need a stronger PC just to run games in the future. a console is the more future proof option because developers have standard hardware to design for menaing every ps3 owner can run the game where as PC owners certain people behind a certain level of GPU are left behind :(

Go play Assassin's Creed 3 on PS3 and then try and tell me that with a straight face.
 
Which console versions?

Bf4 runs better for me on ps4 than it does on my PC. :-/

That's straight up bullshit that needs to be called out. Your 3570 paired with your 680 can absolutely cream the ps4 version in every conceivable way. I know, because one of my many gaming boxes has a 2500k paired with a 680 and at 1920x1200 it looks and runs way better than the ps4 version at a much higher resolution and framerate
 
What are your PC specs ?
I5 3570k - gtx680

Clearly that video was talking about ps360, however, as it doesn't run at 60 fps in that vid (according to the stats) as it does on ps4.

That's straight up bullshit that needs to be called out. Your 3570 paired with your 680 can absolutely cream the ps4 version in every conceivable way. I know, because one of my many gaming boxes has a 2500k paired with a 680 and at 1920x1200 it looks and runs way better than the ps4 version at a much higher resolution
It does look better but there's many more small dips in framerate for me. It's not consistent at all.
 
This is true. As someone who has been using a PC in the living room since 2003, I've yet to find a truly perfect solution for all situations. Once you're in game using a controller, it's great, but there are a lot of things that pop up which demand alternative input. I've taken to using a Lenovo keyboard/trackpad combo that's basically a wide remote. It's not good for gaming but it works well in allowing all other functions to be possible very easily.

I'm playing games lying down (TV is at the foot of the bed) and this is exactly why I'm still not interested going back to PC gaming. To me, all of its positives don't outweigh the simple comfort of lying down and being able to operate a gaming platform of choice and *all* the games available for it with a gamepad; no buts, no ifs, no maybes. EDIT: And certainly no keyboards.
 
They also forgot to add the price of a blu-ray drive, they should be using a mini-itx mb and case, and they're going to need to replace the CPU and case fans to match the noise level of a console. Around $800 would be a reasonable price for a console equivalent. I just think they're spreading bad info.

Physical media
PC
2014

Pick two.
 
What kind of argument are you trying to make? That consoles are better because you can play games in 8 years old hardware that wouldn't run on 8 years old PCs? Do you think it is because the specs? Do you really think that? See, you can't run AC4 on 8 years old hardware because nobody cares about 8 years old hardware except console customers. The devs aimed to have 1080p@60fps on mid range PCs, not making it work on 8 years old hardware.

yes, because that's what gamespot set out to do.


ps4 right now will still play games 8 years from now, just as ps3/360 did. they'll build a pc for $400 that can play games now, what about 8 years from now? people saying they should've taken account the psn/xbl price but guess what, they don't account for future games which will even struggle to render games 8 years from now.

point is, it takes better hardware to render a game on the pc with the same settings as the ps4 does. that is why ac4 can still run on a 256mb sysram/vram ps3 but not on a 256vram card on pc.

"see, you can't run AC4 on 8 years old hardware because nobody cares about 8 years old hardware except console customers" what an ignorant statement. what's the point of building this pc, then? to play games released up until now? then why are they comparing it to a console that will be able to play games 8 years into the future?

ps4 is an investment. that $400 gaming pc isn't. won't meet requirements in 3 years let alone 8.

there are a lot of things wrong with this "experiment".

1) as others have said, trying to find the best deals for pc parts but not with the console.

2) time opportunity cost. time=money. time spent researching for parts, looking for deals, picking the best possible combination vs. going to a store to pick up a ps4. yeah, let's not put that into cost? even if that's not face value, that's still a cost. for most people who don't even know how to build a pc, that's higher the cost.

3) not future proof. at all.
 
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