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Gaming Journalism |OT| May contain trace amounts of games. Or journalism.

Petrae

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To see such a defense force for a “video game journalist” is simultaneously hilarious and pathetic.

Not that I’m a Dr. Disrespect fan at all, but Schreier has a public hate boner for him and uses all of his platforms to make that known. Given that “video game journalists” habitually weaponize Twitter, it’s fitting to see him hit Schreier back in this way.

And, of course, “gamers” and “fellow journalists” are rushing to Schreier’s defense because nerds can’t take care of themselves.

But, hey. That’s what Twitter is now: A place for edgelords (and wannabe edgelords) to shit on each other and then watch their notifications with ferocity as their followers shit on the other’s followers. People talk about YouTube comments sections being cesspools, but Twitter is the biggest arena of assgravy on the internet, and it ain’t even close.
 

angelic

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All the shitty game journos circling the wagons as usual against Dr D in twitter.
 

Petrae

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All the shitty game journos circling the wagons as usual against Dr D in twitter.
...and the “Game Journalists’ Fan Club” has been quick to respond.

“How dare you attack a journalist?”

He didn’t. He responded to continued attacks by a slacktivist who occasionally does a bit more legwork than 99% of his peers. That doesn’t make him a “journalist”.

Just put Schreier and this Disrespect guy in an octagon and let them sort their differences that way. That’s how people who talked shit about each other used to resolve their problems before the rectal cancer that is social media— if you were brave/foolish enough to shit-talk someone, you needed to be ready to throw hands when it got out. You also didn’t have dozens of drooling fans taking punches for you, unless you wanted to be remembered as a sack of crap.
 

angelic

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The stupid thing is that schreir is a good writer, he just has to earn his keep day to day with bait.

Whereas the rest of them, as a 44 year old lifelong gamer, i feel my knowledge runs rings around theirs, yet i dont have little pixel art avatars, begging patreons, a green screen newsdesk in some Californian shed, and desperately seeking any corporate cucking gig i can find.
 

Shai-Tan

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I don't get this "not a real journalist" trope. Similar reasoning was used by idiots defending assault of that Andy Ngo dude because they dislike his political slant. If you think they're inserting political activism in a way that undermines good journalistic standards (accuracy, fairness, etc) you can call them out on it but neutrality isn't a necessary condition of being a journalist. A lot of journalism is bad and that's why we need media literacy.

I get that some people are resentful of know nothings who all have the same political opinions dominating games media but you don't have to read any of it (or watch dumb, yelly youtube commentators)
 
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Petrae

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I don't get this "not a real journalist" trope. Similar reasoning was used by idiots defending assault of that Andy Ngo dude because they dislike his political slant. If you think they're inserting political activism in a way that undermines good journalistic standards (accuracy, fairness, etc) you can call them out on it but neutrality isn't a necessary condition of being a journalist. A lot of journalism is bad and that's why we need media literacy.

I get that some people are resentful of know nothings who all have the same political opinions dominating games media but you don't have to read any of it (or watch dumb, yelly youtube commentators)
Last I checked, Ngo’s line of coverage is in the political arena, so that fairly puts him in conversations about politics.

Meanwhile, these “gaming journalism” slacktivists are supposedly covering the video game sector, but instead feel the constant need to use the platform to advance their sociopolitical bullshit instead.

The one thing I agree with you on is that nobody has to read or listen to what these people pass off. It’s why traditional “games journalism” is heading toward niche status at best and extinction at worst.
 

Shai-Tan

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It is though. Or it used to be anyway.
ah yes, the good old days when the political slant in media was more in agreement with my personal politics aka "neutrality". Anyhow, "apolitical" reporting rose in news as a mass market business strategy. It's twin was "yelllow journalism" which isn't much different from what we call "outrage bait" today

Last I checked, Ngo’s line of coverage is in the political arena, so that fairly puts him in conversations about politics.

Meanwhile, these “gaming journalism” slacktivists are supposedly covering the video game sector, but instead feel the constant need to use the platform to advance their sociopolitical bullshit instead.

The one thing I agree with you on is that nobody has to read or listen to what these people pass off. It’s why traditional “games journalism” is heading toward niche status at best and extinction at worst.
This is an out of sight out of mind scenario. There's always been drama and if people are willing to read about it there is an opportunity to monetize it. What you want from news media has largely been replaced by social media, direct marketing, etc so it's not surprising that game journalists serve a more niche audience who are more political and more concerned with inside baseball of games and its social periphery. If you don't like it don't read it?
 

Whataburger

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ah yes, the good old days when the political slant in media was more in agreement with my personal politics aka "neutrality". Anyhow, "apolitical" reporting rose in news as a mass market business strategy. It's twin was "yelllow journalism" which isn't much different from what we call "outrage bait" today
I think you have me confused with somebody aligned with a political party. In the old days these so called gaming journalists spoke about videogames not current events or pushing literal agendas. At worse they were console warriors.
 

Shai-Tan

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I think you have me confused with somebody aligned with a political party. In the old days these so called gaming journalists spoke about videogames not current events or pushing literal agendas. At worse they were console warriors.
this was a consequence of their business, of 50% advertisements followed by (mostly) gushing impressions (hype) for games we wouldn't otherwise know about. you can today go see that content for free on reddit or other forums or on YouTube videos made by fans singled out for access or sponsored variety streamers who not surprisingly pull their punches. as an intermediary between developers and an audience interested in learning about new titles game journalism is a dime a dozen i.e. you don't need to visit them ever unless you're interested in the type of content they produce
 

Nymphae

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The terms existed 30 years ago. Arcade-adventure. Action platformer. etc etc.
Well to be fair, Metroidvanias are a very specific sub-genre which is not really conveyed by the broader categories you listed. But Kotaku is creating a problem where none exists. We do not need a "more elegant" term to convey what this genre is to "people who don't play videogames."

I had to read this piece of garbage.

Worse, it is completely meaningless to anyone unfamiliar with either of its root words.
Has this confused anyone? Ever? They don't write the term on the game cases or market them as Metroidvanias, it's descriptive insider lingo that you will pretty much only see inside the loop, people pick it up with the hobby. I'm sure there are tons of technical terms in all kinds of hobbies that don't make sense to the uninitiated.

Words which are also portmanteaus—Metroid, the story goes, is a combination of the words “metro” and “android.” Castlevania, meanwhile, is a merging of the words “castle” and “Transylvania” into something that actually worked out pretty well.
It is kind of cool that it's 2 portmanteaus mashed together to form a super portmanteau.

Years of use have acclimated people who play and talk about games a lot to the convenience of “metroidvania,”
You don't say.

I used to write about video games at publications geared towards people who didn’t necessarily play a lot of games, so I have spent a lot of time thinking about words that we’ve become accustomed to but are really just nonsense to anyone outside of this particular subculture
So this guy had a writing gig writing about games for people who don't really play games, and after some chin stroking thinks we need to axe the term because you can't write Metroidvania in a newspaper review or readers digest column and have everyone immediately understand what you mean (where was this guy writing about games for people who don't play games?)

Reducing those potential pain points in the way we talk about games can do a lot to help more people join in on that conversation, especially if it’s as painless as ditching a word like “metroidvania.”
Seriously considering how you can reduce potential pain points when describing videogames to non-gamers. It's like, no shit buddy, if I'm describing a game to someone who is a total moron about games, do you think I'm going to drop lingo like Metroidvania and expect any level of understanding? It's not for them.

Genre terms are more for our benefit more than that of the art in question.
....this guy makes my head hurt.

Genre is a loose system that we have for talking about similar works and establishing canon—an academic exercise more than an artistic one. Those conversations are valuable and sometimes even vital works of scholarship, but they also tend to be exclusive, understandable only to those already steeped in the culture.
These people have an unhealthy obsession with exclusion.

Video games need to be easier to parse, not harder. We talk a lot about diversity and inclusion in games—how we games could become a better, more welcoming space if we just figured out a way to represent more perspectives both in the games we play and in the studios that make them. These are necessary, urgent steps. But I also wonder how many people have never bothered because we’ve spent all this time using the wrong words.
You know he's probably right, how many diversity hires has the community lost because they didn't understand what Metroidvania meant while reading a blurb about games in.....honestly I can't even envision the scenarios this guy is dreaming about. Utter trash.
 
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Xaero Gravity

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This Jason Shreireirieireeeeeeer guy, the more I learn about him, the more I come to the conclusion that, he's a real jerk!
If there's one thing I learned from the whole GAF exodus, it's that he's an absolute parasite. He fed off this place for promotion of his work and book, and latched on somewhere else when he had no more use for it.
 
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I don't keep up with all Jason Schereir BS, but he can release some good articles..... those good ones which look like he spent a while interviewing people and writing it up.

But like most internet people, they fill the void with quick hit junk, Tweets, and for Schreier does his periodic complaint about Bethesda blacklisting Kotaku.

If he just stuck to releasing good articles, he'd be more respected.
 
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If there's one thing I learned from the whole GAF exodus, it's that he's an absolute parasite. He fed off this place for promotion of his work and book, and latched on somewhere else when he had no more use for it.
Yeah, it's very clear being a weasel and a leech is his forté, you gotta give it to him though, he says/tweets enough conversational hot takes about the gaming industry to wear a badge as a "game journalist". He knows the hustle and knows how to lead an online echo chamber of crazies to help him pay the bills and stay relevant.

I guess what I am trying to say is, he's probably also very narcissistic and loves the attention, especially negative attention from parties and people that are more accomplished and successful than him.

So in conclusion: He's a narcissistic, leeching weasel.
 
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Whitesnake

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This is an out of sight out of mind scenario. There's always been drama and if people are willing to read about it there is an opportunity to monetize it. What you want from news media has largely been replaced by social media, direct marketing, etc so it's not surprising that game journalists serve a more niche audience who are more political and more concerned with inside baseball of games and its social periphery. If you don't like it don't read it?
“Social media exists so we shouldn’t ever expect better of game journalists.”

Nah.

The way Kotaku and Polygon operate today is unacceptable. Slandering devs, forcing ideologies upon people, insulting anyone who dares to be enthusiastic about games, clickbait bullshit, glorified blog posts, so on so forth.

Enough with this apologia. These major game jornalists publications are shit, and everyone knows it.
 
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Xaero Gravity

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Yeah, it's very clear being a weasel and a leech is his forté, you gotta give it to him though, he says/tweets enough conversational hot takes about the gaming industry to wear a badge as a "game journalist". He knows the hustle and knows how to lead an online echo chamber of crazies to help him pay the bills and stay relevant.

I guess what I am trying to say is, he's probably also very narcissistic and loves the attention, especially negative attention from parties and people that are more accomplished and successful than him.

So in conclusion: He's a narcissistic, leeching weasel.
He's also very quick to label people. He once labelled YongYea as someone that enables Nazis and anti-semites after coming out not looking so great in an interview on YongYea's YouTube channel.
 
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He's also very quick to label people. He once labelled YongYea as someone that enables Nazis and anti-semites after coming out not looking so great in an interview on YongYea's YouTube channel.
Here is what concerns me about people like Shiereier ( I honestly cannot be bothered spelling his name right, I rather explain this than look up on how to spell it correctly)

Just like the YangYea example you gave above, even though YangYea is nothing more than a game enthusiast Youtuber, my concern is, if you were a game studio, small/big whatever, and you were putting your heart and soul into your project, trying to make the best game you could... and then this Jason guy peered his nose into your studio, wanted you know, to do some game journalism etc. And you refused to give him any time of the day.. I have a feeling a guy like him has the mob mentality and power to paint you in a horrible light and get the Twitter mob after you, resent you, just for refusing to deal with him.

To me that's who this guy seems to be, not a person who contributes anything positive to the game industry but to seek tabloid drama in any corner of the industry he can. He just seems like a dangerous weasel, or maybe I have a very limited idea of his character?
 
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CyberPanda

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I already hate the mainstream media, and after seeing this thread I hate video game journalism too. My god.
 
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Here is what concerns me about people like Shiereier ( I honestly cannot be bothered spelling his name right, I rather explain this than look up on how to spell it correctly)

Just like the YangYea example you gave above, even though YangYea is nothing more than a game enthusiast Youtuber, my concern is, if you were a game studio, small/big whatever, and you were putting your heart and soul into your project, trying to make the best game you could... and then this Jason guy peered his nose into your studio, wanted you know, to do some game journalism etc. And you refused to give him any time of the day.. I have a feeling a guy like him has the mob mentality and power to paint you in a horrible light and get the Twitter mob after you, resent you, just for refusing to deal with him.

To me that's who this guy seems to be, not a person who contributes anything positive to the game industry but to seek tabloid drama in any corner of the industry he can. He just seems like a dangerous weasel, or maybe I have a very limited idea of his character?
Scherier did a good piece on Anthem's shitty development cycle. Did you read it? It's good. Though very long. It;s all done by interviewing people after the game launched, so it's a retrospective.

Good on him for doing it, but to be honest do we gamers really need to know why a game got rushed out the door? Maybe. Maybe not. Also, by doing so it probably just pisses off EA and Bioware since there are no game companies that truly want to tank and game. Pretty sure they want to make a great game, but Scherier digs deep uprooting poison.

Next thing you know EA will blacklist Kotaku from future content (like Bethesda did for releasing NDA info early in 2013). And Jason and Kotaku will cry they aren't getting same coverage.
 
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DocONally

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May as well argue not to use a term like 'portmanteau' just in case people don't know what it means.
Yeah right lol

We should call it the Brillig Slithy Tove genre.

Does he not know that portmanteaus are mostly made up in the media and that he is suggesting a portmanteau to replace a portmanteau?
 

ZeroGravity

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I love Doc going in on these guys. It's quite clear all the dialogue around him had nothing to do with reporting on what he did, and more about immediately trying to get him cancelled. He has more influence than these guys will ever have, and they know it.
 

GreyHorace

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I love Doc going in on these guys. It's quite clear all the dialogue around him had nothing to do with reporting on what he did, and more about immediately trying to get him cancelled. He has more influence than these guys will ever have, and they know it.
If that's the case, why don't Shyster and his ilk abandon the whole gaming website thing and just do streaming? Or better yet, adopt the model that the Easy Allies people have? One channel for gaming news and the other for streaming? It's clear gaming websites are going under the way they are now.
 
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Xaero Gravity

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I love Doc going in on these guys. It's quite clear all the dialogue around him had nothing to do with reporting on what he did, and more about immediately trying to get him cancelled. He has more influence than these guys will ever have, and they know it.
 
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ZeroGravity

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I love Doc going in on these guys. It's quite clear all the dialogue around him had nothing to do with reporting on what he did, and more about immediately trying to get him cancelled. He has more influence than these guys will ever have, and they know it.
:pie_thinking:
 

Scopa

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I love Doc going in on these guys. It's quite clear all the dialogue around him had nothing to do with reporting on what he did, and more about immediately trying to get him cancelled. He has more influence than these guys will ever have, and they know it.
I love Doc going in on these guys. It's quite clear all the dialogue around him had nothing to do with reporting on what he did, and more about immediately trying to get him cancelled. He has more influence than these guys will ever have, and they know it.
What the fluff is going on? :goog_confused:
 

Xaero Gravity

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I love Doc going in on these guys. It's quite clear all the dialogue around him had nothing to do with reporting on what he did, and more about immediately trying to get him cancelled. He has more influence than these guys will ever have, and they know it.
:pie_thinking:
 

Shai-Tan

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“Social media exists so we shouldn’t ever expect better of game journalists.”

Nah.

The way Kotaku and Polygon operate today is unacceptable. Slandering devs, forcing ideologies upon people, insulting anyone who dares to be enthusiastic about games, clickbait bullshit, glorified blog posts, so on so forth.

Enough with this apologia. These major game jornalists publications are shit, and everyone knows it.

Here's an outline of what actual concern with journalistic standards would look like:

-journalism as intermediary: do they relay the facts of the matter, perspectives of involved parties (e.g. opportunity to comment), opinions of relevant experts
-cultivate expertise in a beat: relevant education, body of knowledge from extensive discussion and reading about the topics that are being covered

What I see is a bunch of whining disagreement with political opinions in games criticism (i.e. opinion editorials) or social media comments disguised as concern for journalistic standards

-Yes, video game punditry i.e. opinion editorials are populated by idiots who never read a book, know nothing about history, social science, philosophy writing or speaking about topics they seemed to have learned about solely via twitter and other social media. The same could be said about their audiences, game developers, etc and so on
-The same criticism applies to many journalists who have elevated themselves to a commentary position. Does anyone not think Thomas Friedman is an idiot? Newspaper opinion pages are full of idiot punditry -- even more so web publications responding to incentives to produce click bait or play to moron audiences. Don't read or watch it? None of this is new or is going away.

Where the latter concern bleeds into the former is articles written as a blend of opinion and news where opinion is standing in for what experts think, investigation of the facts, or comment from involved parties. The craft of weaving these elements together is subject to standards of rationality that apply whether it's a work of advocacy or aspiring to a more neutral point of view. What really seems to bother people is the influence they have over game developers i.e. "forcing ideologies" but a closer look suggests this is more a product of homophily than bowing to a stoked outrage mob.
 

Whitesnake

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Here's an outline of what actual concern with journalistic standards would look like:

-journalism as intermediary: do they relay the facts of the matter, perspectives of involved parties (e.g. opportunity to comment), opinions of relevant experts
-cultivate expertise in a beat: relevant education, body of knowledge from extensive discussion and reading about the topics that are being covered

What I see is a bunch of whining disagreement with political opinions in games criticism (i.e. opinion editorials) or social media comments disguised as concern for journalistic standards

-Yes, video game punditry i.e. opinion editorials are populated by idiots who never read a book, know nothing about history, social science, philosophy writing or speaking about topics they seemed to have learned about solely via twitter and other social media. The same could be said about their audiences, game developers, etc and so on
-The same criticism applies to many journalists who have elevated themselves to a commentary position. Does anyone not think Thomas Friedman is an idiot? Newspaper opinion pages are full of idiot punditry -- even more so web publications responding to incentives to produce click bait or play to moron audiences. Don't read or watch it? None of this is new or is going away.

Where the latter concern bleeds into the former is articles written as a blend of opinion and news where opinion is standing in for what experts think, investigation of the facts, or comment from involved parties. The craft of weaving these elements together is subject to standards of rationality that apply whether it's a work of advocacy or aspiring to a more neutral point of view. What really seems to bother people is the influence they have over game developers i.e. "forcing ideologies" but a closer look suggests this is more a product of homophily than bowing to a stoked outrage mob.
I don't know what part of this is meant to refute what I've said.

You agree thet are uneducated ideologues that write idiotic clickbait and try to throw their weight to force devs to follow their ideology, yes?

But... you're mad that people are complaining?

If people don't like way game journalists operate, most people won't write essays about. When they see bullshit they'll say "this is bullshit".
 
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#Phonepunk#

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The way Kotaku and Polygon operate today is unacceptable. Slandering devs, forcing ideologies upon people, insulting anyone who dares to be enthusiastic about games, clickbait bullshit, glorified blog posts, so on so forth.
my big issue is its almost all industry gossip. the amount of time talking about games or doing deep dives or real critical analysis vs. bullshit clickbait is almost nothing.

the "big important stories" they publish tend to be very biased tales of "worker abuse" which turn out to mostly be standard operating procedures for most US businesses. if a company abuses it's workers, it should be in the NYT or WaPo or some other "legit" media outlet. i don't care about industry gossip. all this does is entitle readers to think "all companies are out to get us" and encourage abusive behavior towards companies in order to "fight back". it's this faux socialist bullshit where you want to call out capitalism even though your entire business model is hyping products and exploiting consumers.

then the same outlets exploit these attempts to "fight back" that they unwittingly led through their clickbat. now that it's out of their hands they call it "toxic gaming". they could be writing positive stories, they could easily do pieces highlighting good gamers and examples of good behavior, but they don't. it wouldn't bring in the money. so they highlight bad behavior, encourage dogpiling, then exploit the harmful stereotype of "toxic gamers". then this shit gets perpetuated on sites like ResetEra where these same people work and regurgitate the same tired schitk like two asses exchanging a shit back and forth.

it's a shame that gaming media has given up. they basically conceded gaming to the alt right through their cowardice. there is no need for this. they could write positive stories. they could present a good ideal for their readers to emulate. but no, it doesn't bring money, stirring the shit does, so they actively push people away. they are radicalizing people through their own cowardliness and laziness. ultimately it makes their readers hateful and less informed. a shame.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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did a quick search, here are a bunch of Kotaku articles with toxic headlines. please don't read any of these to give them views. just wanted an example. if someone made a thread with these titles, they would be accused of trying to stir up something. kind of amazed at how often they just say "this is bullshit" as a headline. this is not professional.

Morhaus Developers Are On Some Bullshit

The Coolest Looking Fighter in Samurai Showdown is Unfortunately Shit

Rhonda Rousey Being in Mortal Kombat Is Bullshit

Zelda's Labyrinths Are Some Bullshit

The End of Yakuza 6 is Some Bullshit

The World of Pokemon Sun and Moon is Kinda Bullshit

Pokemon Fan Has a Genuis Way of Avoiding Youtube's Copyright Bullshit

so yeah apparently they really are full of shit.
 
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Shai-Tan

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I don't know what part of this is meant to refute what I've said.

You agree thet are uneducated ideologues that write idiotic clickbait and try to throw their weight to force devs to follow their ideology, yes?

But... you're mad that people are complaining?

If people don't like way game journalists operate, most people won't write essays about. When they see bullshit they'll say "this is bullshit".
as I said in the quoted text homophily explains responsiveness to the types of political questions they're asking of developers more than "force devs to follow their ideology". If you gave a political orientation test to an average game developer there would very likely be a much shorter distance between them than two people on average. meanwhile it isn't solving the more basic problem, of bad writing that transcends half baked political ideology. there aren't enough good writers in games and it's unsurprising to see a reliance on fashionable hack tropes and purity tests dreamed up by dumb philistines on social media

luckily many of the ghosts conjured up by this concern are unfounded repetition of caricatures of "sjws" within a moronic culture war with only a vague connection to the content in games
 

Whitesnake

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as I said in the quoted text homophily explains responsiveness to the types of political questions they're asking of developers more than "force devs to follow their ideology". If you gave a political orientation test to an average game developer there would very likely be a much shorter distance between them than two people on average. meanwhile it isn't solving the more basic problem, of bad writing that transcends half baked political ideology. there aren't enough good writers in games and it's unsurprising to see a reliance on fashionable hack tropes and purity tests dreamed up by dumb philistines on social media

luckily many of the ghosts conjured up by this concern are unfounded repetition of caricatures of "sjws" within a moronic culture war with only a vague connection to the content in games
I still don't understand what your point is.