Milkncooke
Member
Until the kid wants Mario and Pokemon.
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Gaming on smartphones: Can any dedicated handheld really compete?
- Thread starter capslock
- Start date
There's also the fact that lots of people owning phones =/= lots of people gaming on phones over other devices. There's probably a lot of people, yes, but those who just want to play Tetris won't get a dedicated handheld just for that IF something else already serves their purposes (unless they feel the Tetris experience will be better there, but that's a hint they may be more serious about games afterall.) But beyond that many people may well prioritize smartphone or tablet use for things other than games, like web browsing or reading. I have an iPhone 4 and a Nexus 7, but I barely play games on them, and it's usually just something like Angry Birds I can whip out and play on a whim.
Another thing to keep in mind: to me tablets and smartphones are essentially to handhelds what PCs are to consoles. I doubt the number of active console users comes close to the number of computer users AT ALL, but console gaming's stayed relevant for quite awhile and is more likely to be undone by itself (budgets going too far out of control) than JUST PC edging them out in the market space.
Depending on the game I wonder if it's more the stigma surrounding higher price points doing them in. We've already seen a lot of gnashing of teeth over 3DS prices, especially when anyone tries to go higher, but it seems like you're not even going to reach $20 most of the time on iOS or Android, even if you'll fleece whales with insane F2P schemes. Which I do wonder if it'll ultimately cause a collapse in that market, we are seeing mobile companies shutting down and the buzz doesn't actually seem to be as high as it was years ago (or it's just taken for granted now.)
I don't need experiences that compare to handhelds. I have a gaming PC. I have no interest in playing full length AAA titles on a tiny screen.
I want quick games at a cheap price. iOS gaming is perfect for that.
Not me, I keep wasting my money on crappy games that will finally make me feel my iPod/phone/tablet are legit gaming systems :/ Most recently After Burner Climax - it downright made me buy Ace Combat on 3DS, go figure.
I buy the Android bundles, I try the "best" games mentioned around here. Honestly most of it is crap, and as I mentioned, people think it's "good enough" for the price and convenience, and not because the games are actually better than the stuff on Vita and 3DS.
DDP Maximum is phone exclusive! Of course you could just point out Ketsui DS for a comparison.
Heh, Cave games are what I would point out too...they also happen to be on the higher level of phone games price wise.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I've dived into tons of sites to find the best games for my iPhone, and I've invested like 200 bucks in games, I kinda enjoy it but after 2 years I just don't spend money in them because aside of some games(mostly cave shooters)
they are just time wasters, while my 3DS gives me amazingly high quality experiences. I'm sure smarthphones will get there someday, but for now, nope.
cave games are so fucking good
they are just time wasters, while my 3DS gives me amazingly high quality experiences. I'm sure smarthphones will get there someday, but for now, nope.
cave games are so fucking good
Im not sure if they cannot be done. I just know that they rarely are. Its tough as nails to find something with as much depth, length, detail, and the production values of Gravity Daze or Mario 3DLand on a smartphone.
And thats not even beginning to talk about controls. Its just.... publishers aren't really trying on smartphones. They are sticking with the lightweight stuff. So as long as they treat mobile like second class, so will I.
Gaming on dedicated handhelds: Can any smartphone really compete?
I've yet to find a smartphone game that holds my interest more than a week or two. Game Dev Story, Plague Inc, Tiny Tower, Puzzle and Dragons, Cthulhu Saves the World; I lose interest pretty quick.
Meanwhile, I still play and replay great DS games like SMT, Pokemon, Castlevania, Fire Emblem, TWEWY, and Infinite Space.
I think the free or low-cost nature of smartphone games is part of the problem. They are disposable, and I have no incentive to finish them, partly because they cost me next-to nothing. No developer is going to create a 60-hour adventure as compelling as Infinite Space or Fire Emblem, then give it away for nothing, or nearly nothing.
Also, buttons.
I've yet to find a smartphone game that holds my interest more than a week or two. Game Dev Story, Plague Inc, Tiny Tower, Puzzle and Dragons, Cthulhu Saves the World; I lose interest pretty quick.
Meanwhile, I still play and replay great DS games like SMT, Pokemon, Castlevania, Fire Emblem, TWEWY, and Infinite Space.
I think the free or low-cost nature of smartphone games is part of the problem. They are disposable, and I have no incentive to finish them, partly because they cost me next-to nothing. No developer is going to create a 60-hour adventure as compelling as Infinite Space or Fire Emblem, then give it away for nothing, or nearly nothing.
Also, buttons.
ExigentContact
Member
No, but until touch screens can act as a true alternative as opposed to a gimping factor, games will generally have worse input on touch-only devices, or be simplistic in comparison due to their singular input method.
There's nothing wrong with mechanical simplicity, but you can't honestly tell me that the solutions to get Grand Theft Auto III and Vice City on touch devices is an ideal solution.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
But there aren't any AAA titles on handhelds, that's budget.
Frankly, if you care about Japanese games at all, you should get a handheld. If you don't or aren't interested for any particular titles on them, then don't get one.
Mind you, I'm still a pissed about the price for their digital copies.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
oh yeah, I need more games like sword and sorcery, which was an iOS exclusive for a while
opticalmace
Member
I think so. They have a little while to go but I would definitely consider using my smartphone for portable gaming instead of a handheld. It's just way more convenient.
Just need better battery life and a couple years of maturity (e.g. better base gpu, software innovation). What about a phone case that doubles as physical buttons for games? That would be cool.
Just need better battery life and a couple years of maturity (e.g. better base gpu, software innovation). What about a phone case that doubles as physical buttons for games? That would be cool.
No there is an app for Vita called PSHome Arcade. It lets you play the arcade games from PlayStation Home (it's awfull). But yeah, Vita has plenty good 'bite-sized' games. Even free ones. Mutant Blobs Attacks has been good recently. Pinball Arcade, Flow, Zen Pinball 2 and more scratch that itch quite well.
Allforce
Member
My phone/tablet gaming consists of goofball shit like Fruit Ninja or NFL Field Goal Kicker, basically anything where you can swipe the screen and make shit happen. It gets old quick but beats reading a Mens Health in the dentist's waiting room. The leap in quality from IOS/Android stuff to just even something like Hot Shots Golf on Vita is ridiculously huge.
IOS/Android gaming is for non-gamers who literally don't know there's better shit out there or don't care. To try to prop it up as "WELL MOER PEOPLE HAVE EM SO ITS BETTER" is ridiculous.
IOS/Android gaming is for non-gamers who literally don't know there's better shit out there or don't care. To try to prop it up as "WELL MOER PEOPLE HAVE EM SO ITS BETTER" is ridiculous.
Well, no. Because a Metroidvania wouldn't translate well to iOS (and I don't think Guacamelee a very good game, anyway). On the other hand, Vita does not have an adventure game as good as Year Walk, or an arcade game as good as Super Hexagon (though Super Crate Box comes close). I think a lot of people that are immediately down on phone and tablet gaming want experiences that don't make any sense on the format. Well, no iOS can't do Uncharted, but why would you want to play it there? (Why would you want to play it on a handheld period, for that matter?)
iOS is great for Japanese titles.
As long as the Japanese titles you want are by Cave.
Well what are you even going on about then?
We give you a reason why Handheld gaming can compete and your response is basically
"But I don't personally want that! A watered down version of it is good enough for me!"
Well thats wonderful for you..... But I don't see what that has to do with our answer to the OP.
That's true, some games can be done on smartphones.
And yea, publishers aren't really putting big games on there. They just put cash grabs and most games on there are ones you can't "finish".
They have Mario on their Wii-U. Moms ain't made of money these days and buying hundreds of dollars in smart phones every few years is a new concept in our economy. The money has to come from somewhere so might as well let the kids game on your old phone hardware.
Clockwork5
Member
I spent the last year playing games on my Transformer Infinity as well as my HTC one (both were fairly high end when I purchased them). I bought a 3ds about 2 months ago and the games have blown me away in terms of quality. I mean going from Gameloft games to Nintendo games is such a huge step in quality they are not even close. Even though my tablet / phone are both very high-res devices and can handle some good looking games, I would rather pay $40 for Fire Emblem than buy 4 bug ridden, 3 hour long tablet games or 40 garbage $.99 games.
And they have Mario on handhelds? What's your point? Your post contradicts itself since the handhelds are cheaper than the home consoles.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
But those are on the priciest side of iOS gaming. And only one is exclusive on mobile.
Nintendo wishes this would be the case.
Tell me when there's a smartphone game that is of real, handheld game quality and that isn't a cobbled together attempt at a knock-off, or a gimmicky and shallow touch game, and then we'll talk.
Tell me when there's a 3D platformer that controls and is as well designed as Mario 3D Land. Tell me when there's a tactical RPG as good as Fire Emblem: Awakening. Tell me when there's an RPG as charming and deep as Persona 4 Golden.
I don't care if your game is $0.99 or $39.99. My time doesn't have a dollar sign on it, and I'd rather spend that time with a beautifully crafted game than a shitty knock-off that is, at best, "fine."
I've played Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja, Game Dev Story, etc. And they are fine. They don't offend me or whatever. But I'd way rather spend my time with a quality game on a dedicated handheld than anything iOS or the Android market currently offers.
Tell me when there's a 3D platformer that controls and is as well designed as Mario 3D Land. Tell me when there's a tactical RPG as good as Fire Emblem: Awakening. Tell me when there's an RPG as charming and deep as Persona 4 Golden.
I don't care if your game is $0.99 or $39.99. My time doesn't have a dollar sign on it, and I'd rather spend that time with a beautifully crafted game than a shitty knock-off that is, at best, "fine."
I've played Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja, Game Dev Story, etc. And they are fine. They don't offend me or whatever. But I'd way rather spend my time with a quality game on a dedicated handheld than anything iOS or the Android market currently offers.
There is still a market there, but I think it's a market that is going to be a lot more focused in Japan in the long run.
I have bought games on my iPod, Android phone and 3DS. And right now I have a backlog of games on my 3DS while my phone and iPod have not had playtime in awhile. On the other hand, my step dad plays a game on his phone every night.
The thing is- the handheld market is divided into 4 sections: casuals, kids, 16-35 yr olds, and hardcore. What we're seeing is hardcore still buying these machines while the other 3 sections are potentially just using phones. Casuals never needed deeper experiences, kids can use their parent's phones and the 16-35 demo only used it at home where the focus is now on home consoles.
I see Sony moving away from the Vita and focusing on PS Mobile games rather than a dedicated handheld in the future. Being able to sell a game on a bunch of phones, at a lower cost, while still maintaining and focusing on your home console is what I expect. Nintendo I see still bringing out a system- as they still have a lot of all 4 sections willing to buy and Japan locked down. I can see Microsoft attempting a handheld but it would likely just be a Windows 8 phone with buttons.
I have bought games on my iPod, Android phone and 3DS. And right now I have a backlog of games on my 3DS while my phone and iPod have not had playtime in awhile. On the other hand, my step dad plays a game on his phone every night.
The thing is- the handheld market is divided into 4 sections: casuals, kids, 16-35 yr olds, and hardcore. What we're seeing is hardcore still buying these machines while the other 3 sections are potentially just using phones. Casuals never needed deeper experiences, kids can use their parent's phones and the 16-35 demo only used it at home where the focus is now on home consoles.
I see Sony moving away from the Vita and focusing on PS Mobile games rather than a dedicated handheld in the future. Being able to sell a game on a bunch of phones, at a lower cost, while still maintaining and focusing on your home console is what I expect. Nintendo I see still bringing out a system- as they still have a lot of all 4 sections willing to buy and Japan locked down. I can see Microsoft attempting a handheld but it would likely just be a Windows 8 phone with buttons.
People who care about quality care about dedicated handhelds. Smartphones may be taking a bite out of dedicated handhelds but they haven't replaced them. Not yet. And maybe not ever, as long as phones continue to not have buttons.
Ports man. Phones can be a haven of ports. Yes companies won't make huge games FOR the iPhone, but they'll certainly make it for a console and will port it to iPhone.
Final Fantasy games
GTA3 and Vice City
A Bard's Tale PS2 that also includes all the old PC versions from the late 80's.
These are just some examples that I've personally seen and I rarely go into the App Store.
No it doesn't. Parents have already budgeted for their home to have a game console but they have never budgeted for buying a new iPhone every 2 years. Where oh where could they pull money out of their budget to do this? Well why not stop buying handheld consoles and just hand my old iPhone 4 to my kids and buy some $1-3 games and load it with videos?
Just in numbers, but certainly not at all in revenue.
Dedicated handheld gaming won't go anywhere, that's like saying PCs can kill consoles, and in that case PC at least does have good games.
opticalmace
Member
Wishful thinking, IMHO. I bet handhelds will be marginalized within 5 years by smartphones.
I'm not really making a prediction either way. Neither future would really surprise me.
No way to know, it seems like if anything mobile gaming is cooling down too. Plus again - revenue. With their insanely inferior (number-wise) install bases, how come it's not easy for phone games to beat them revenue-wise very easily?
That's not a good argument for a phone over a dedicated mobile device.
The bullet points are basically
- Its a port of a game on dedicated gaming device.
- Its controls were built with those dedicated devices in mind
- Its likely to be ported MONTHS/Years after its release on dedicated devices
I mean, thats fine and all, but if you are trying to convince someone not to game on a dedicated console, that list is extremely weak. Late ports aren't the best way to sway interest in favor of a gaming device. Never has been.
Thats ridiculous. A parent could just as easily budget for a handheld instead. Especially since its cheaper. Not to mention, that if a kid wants a franchise, then they want a franchise. No matter what, you aren't getting Pokemon anywhere but one place.
PoweredBySoy
Banned
Guacamelee shits on this thread.
FairXchange
Member
Gaming on a smartphone is a pretty painful experience.
Gaming on a Vita or 3DS is an awesome experience. For those that want an all in one solution, phones my do the trick. For those that have a bit higher standards for game control, immersion, game quality, etc, you're gonna need a dedicated handheld.
Never ever will play a game like Luigi's Mansion on your phone, nor will you be able to play a game like Guacameele on a tablet. Standardized controller input goes a long, long way.
Gaming on tablets and phones is improving, I will admit, but still not enough for my tastes.
Pretty much already are marginalized, a person my age (22) never heard of the 3DS until I mentioned I had one. His response "Nintendo has a new handheld? I thought their last one was the DS!"
This came as a shock, while most everyone knows the iPad 4th gen is the latest version.
Game companies have their work cut out for them, people need to decide what type of experience they want in terms of devices to play games. Many think tablets are the best solution. I disagree, however.
Gaming on a Vita or 3DS is an awesome experience. For those that want an all in one solution, phones my do the trick. For those that have a bit higher standards for game control, immersion, game quality, etc, you're gonna need a dedicated handheld.
Never ever will play a game like Luigi's Mansion on your phone, nor will you be able to play a game like Guacameele on a tablet. Standardized controller input goes a long, long way.
Gaming on tablets and phones is improving, I will admit, but still not enough for my tastes.
Pretty much already are marginalized, a person my age (22) never heard of the 3DS until I mentioned I had one. His response "Nintendo has a new handheld? I thought their last one was the DS!"
This came as a shock, while most everyone knows the iPad 4th gen is the latest version.
Game companies have their work cut out for them, people need to decide what type of experience they want in terms of devices to play games. Many think tablets are the best solution. I disagree, however.
So many people in these threads take such a hard line it's depressing. I love iOS and I love Vita.
iPad is amazing for games like PvZ, Machinarium, Little Inferno, The Room, basically anything touch based.
Conversely I really don't like using the touch screen on my Vita but its amazing for games like Sine Mora, Wipeout etc.
If I had to without one or the other my gaming just wouldn't be complete.
iPad is amazing for games like PvZ, Machinarium, Little Inferno, The Room, basically anything touch based.
Conversely I really don't like using the touch screen on my Vita but its amazing for games like Sine Mora, Wipeout etc.
If I had to without one or the other my gaming just wouldn't be complete.
Colonel Mustard
Banned
You say that until the kid realizes phones don't have the franchises they care about.
No Skylanders, Lego, Pokemon, Monster High etc.
Edit: Kids just don't 'make do'.
i feel like you're possibly in an even smaller minority than dedicated handheld gamers if you have a gaming pc. i'm not sure what your point is.
opticalmace
Member
My personal opinion is that the smartphone market (including phone gaming) is not very stable right now. There's a lot of development and innovation and people trying different types of games and pricepoints etc. I think once things stabilize a bit it will become clear.
I don't know the numbers (re: revenue), but yeah, handheld games are a lot more expensive. I just don't see how you can combat the install base/convenience factor of smartphones, ultimately.
My 2c.
edit: Maybe a stretch, but I sort of think liken it to the smartphone camera vs. digital point-and-shoot camera debate. Yeah, smartphones are lagging behind right now, but I don't see how they won't end up on top. It's just too convenient. I take pictures I never thought I would because I just happened to have my phone in my pocket. More clear-cut in this example, but that's how I feel re: mobile gaming too.
Green Wiggly
Member
It seems the 3DS has moved 28.84 million units life-time through Dec '12 (source). Who's buying them?
I don't think that phones can really offer an equivalent gaming experience due to the method of input (and lugging around a phone cradle with input attachments is just as inconvenient as lugging around a handheld). I hope dedicated handhelds stick around for a long time. I wouldn't really want to think of playing Monster Hunter or Mario on a 3" touchscreen.
Do you really think those are must have franchises for kids anymore? This isn't 1990.
I have seen it happen where my friend's kids have old iPhones. They are not getting a handheld game console. They simply aren't. You think a child cares that their game had Mario in it in 2013?
And you think the parents want to placate their kids' desires so much that they're going to pay another $150 per console and $40 per game? One iPhone game purchase makes it playable on every older iPhone they give to the kids. You can't do that on 3DS.
I wish I could be like this, but every handheld I've owned stomps all over the games on my iPod/phone/tablet.
Heck, last month I bought a WonderSwan. Makaimura and Rockman & Forte >>>>>>>> every phone game I've played.
chickdigger802
Banned
id rather play pinball on ipad cause of the screen though... I mean it gotta be a bitesize game magnitudes better than iOS to convince me to take the vita out of the case and out of the backpack vs the phone that's always in my pockets.
RobotMafia
Banned
I hate playing on a smartphone for anything that isn't something like scrabble. I need my buttons.
Off-Kilter
Banned
Shouldn't the thread title be the other way around?