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GeDoSaTo - Downsampling from Infinity and Beyond!

RVinP

Unconfirmed Member
Do I go with:

1.25x DSR with __%? smoothness & MSAA 8x
1.5x DSR with __%? smoothness & MSAA 4x?
2k DSR with __%? smoothness & MSAA 2x?
3k DSR with __%? smoothness & no AA?

I would assume FXAA would be dumb because the whole point of DSR is getting an ultra-sharp image and taking a blurry image and downsampling it seems like it would just produce a blurry image.

DSR itself has blur queued into its final effect on screen, using it along side FXAA is indeed counter intuitive. If you want to go with DSR, I'd suggest 1.78x DSR (and smoothness at 15%, but do check your preference) with MSAA 4x.

But I'd myself just go with GeDoSaTo (when its possible) 2560x1440 -> 1080p, with Lanczos and FXAA (in-game). Because this combo would be faster than DSR + MSAAx's any time and GeDoSaTo_2560x1440_Lanczos_FXAA overhead isn't high.

Edit: One problem with DSR's smoothness factor at non 4xDSR settings, is the fonts in the game..they'll look all weird.
 

BONKERS

Member
General downsampling question because this has always seemed like the most active thread about 4k and downsampling.

Today I finally figured out I'd been doing 4k tests wrong! I'd been enabling the 4k option in Nvidia control panel under DSR and running the game and it didn't look any different so I thought it wasn't noticable on a 1080p monitor. I also thought it wasn't eating much performance (lol).

Today I accidently noticed that you can change the resolution settings in the game to 4k and wow, was blown away by 4k downsampled to 1080p. However, nothing recent seems playable at that resolution. And at 2k downsampled to 1080p I don't notice a big difference over just playing at 1080p?

However, why I'm posting this is I wanted to know what the ideal configuration is for the best looking sharpest game minus jaggies that still runs well with everything besides AA maxed (ideally 60fps):

Do I go with:

1.25x DSR with __%? smoothness & MSAA 8x
1.5x DSR with __%? smoothness & MSAA 4x?
2k DSR with __%? smoothness & MSAA 2x?
3k DSR with __%? smoothness & no AA?

I would assume FXAA would be dumb because the whole point of DSR is getting an ultra-sharp image and taking a blurry image and downsampling it seems like it would just produce a blurry image.

I'm not sure what % smoothness I should be using and if its an adequate replacement for MSAA? For example, with 33% smoothness at 4k downsample I can't see jaggies so it seems like I wouldn't need AA. But at 2k downsample 33% smoothness makes it kind of blurry, I feel like the less of the multiplier of your current resolution, the lower the smoothness percentage should be to keep the image sharp? And instead higher MSAA?

Please teach me the trick to get the best image & performance from downsampling!

thanks
FXAA and downsampling go wonderfully well together.

Any blur is entirely absent until you look at the pixel level. Which is insane.


And if you believe this to be true.

Which of these is using FXAA?
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/100784


And if anyone REALLY thinks FXAA is counterintuitive with DSR let alone downsampling at all. (It works even better with DSR thanks to it's superior resampling. If uber sharpness is really important, crank down the smoothness or sharpen it. Or better yet just use lanczos or regular bilinear driver downsampling)

You good sir, are insane and do not know what you are talking about.


The only point in time where it's going to be causing issues is if you are downsampling from pitifully small ratios.(Ironically enough, most of DSR's default ratios are stupidly small. Don't bother with anything but 2.25x and 4x. There is a way you can go beyond 2x2 but I'm not allowed to share that. Let's just say 3x3 is about as usable as it gets without significant issues. 3x3 looks good though) Which basically defeats the point of downsampling anyway since any benefit is minimal at that point unless you are using something like SGSSAA in conjunction. Downsampling with post-AA alone doesn't produce worthwhile results until you get beyond 1.5x1.5 and close to and beyond 2x2.
 

RVinP

Unconfirmed Member
FXAA and downsampling go wonderfully well together.

Any blur is entirely absent until you look at the pixel level. Which is insane.

And if you believe this to be true.

Which of these is using FXAA?
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/100784

And if anyone REALLY thinks FXAA is counterintuitive with DSR let alone downsampling at all. (It works even better with DSR thanks to it's superior resampling. If uber sharpness is really important, crank down the smoothness or sharpen it. Or better yet just use lanczos or regular bilinear driver downsampling)

You good sir, are insane and do not know what you are talking about.

You'd lose the cohesion between the color/edge sharpness of the UI vs rendered visuals, straining the eyes while try to look for sharpness along the edges with the HUD/menu elements overlayed onscreen.
 

Alo81

Low Poly Gynecologist
There is a way you can go beyond 2x2 but I'm not allowed to share that. Let's just say 3x3 is about as usable as it gets without significant issues. 3x3 looks good though) Which basically defeats the point of downsampling anyway since any benefit is minimal at that point unless you are using something like SGSSAA in conjunction. Downsampling with post-AA alone doesn't produce worthwhile results until you get beyond 1.5x1.5 and close to and beyond 2x2.

If it ever becomes shareable, my inbox is open because I'd love to check that out.
 

Alo81

Low Poly Gynecologist
If you need to hide your results behind 754x401 images, it's not very convincing.

Those are crops, not resizes. I imagine it's downsized to 1920x1080 (like a person typically would be playing) then cropped so you have an unscaled version to compare against. It's a valid comparison.
 

bee

Member
oops it was 150% dpi windows setting that breaks a lot of things in windows 7, back down to 125% and certain program windows aren't blurry anymore also many games start working again i.e mouse cursor comes back in starcraft 2, can select the full screen in anno 1404 etc etc

at least it was easy to fix, 125% isn't ideal for a lot of other things though

< -- 4k noob
 
Timothy Lottes shader does not seem to work with a game that runs at 1280X720... Still keeps rendering the pixels in a 320X240 fashion even after changing the post process settings...

hrmmm

Anyone have luck with it working in non-snes titles?

EDIT: Figured it out, you have to change the division value in the shader from the default "6.0" to "1.0"

Now, how to emulate 9bit color or less? That would be interesting (genesis color range for example)

EDIT 2: I think that would mean editting the Monochrome scale setting. INTERDASTING

EDIT 3: NOPE

EDIT 4: Edit the saturation and color balance with vibrance settings... hrmmmmm
 

Grums

Neo Member
Cant seem to get this working.

Trying to downsample Half Life 2. Tried adding the name to user whitelist. However the highest resolution it will let me accept in game is that of my monitor.

Any idea what I might be doing wrong?

Thanks.
 

Metalic Sand

who is Emo-Beas?
Anyone know why Gedosato messes up with 2 monitors? When i boot Valkyria in borderless fullscreen it starts the game in the middle of both monitors. I wanted to go borderless window to stream.

Edit: I forgot to add it works when fullscreen only but i need it window borderless to stream. I guess i might not be able to.
 

Alo81

Low Poly Gynecologist
Anyone know why Gedosato messes up with 2 monitors? When i boot Valkyria in borderless fullscreen it starts the game in the middle of both monitors. I wanted to go borderless window to stream.

Edit: I forgot to add it works when fullscreen only but i need it window borderless to stream. I guess i might not be able to.

You might be able to use WinKey + right arrow to push it to the right side. If not, you could probably use SRWE to align it to the right side.
 

RVinP

Unconfirmed Member
Regarding AMD SSAA, Is this legit (ignoring the new AMD's capability to force SSAA in DX10/11)?

I was digging why SSAA forced on my older AMD card hard faster performance than Downsampling or SSAA enabled via Nvinspector.

SRC: http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost.php?p=1336174841&postcount=21

Originally posted by fellix_bg
Down-sampling (a.k.a. over-sampling) FSAA supported in GeForce, generally takes the same relative performance hit as ATi's super-sampling for the HD5000 series -- both methods use the same amount of video memory per sample count. The difference is that in the case of HD5000 the image buffer is not rendered in higher resolution, but in multiple copies and then each copy is being sampled in different position within each the pixel. That allows for liberal implementation rotated and spaced grid patterns, providing better overall FSAA quality even with impaired sample count. In NV's case with over-sampling that's just impossible, as the pixel sampling is in ordered alignment with the screen coordinates.

Now, the downside of the ATi's case lies in the game engine compatibility -- if a game doesn't support MSAA at all, it means the SSAA is also out of the picture. That's because super-sampling is done at sampling frequency in conjunction with the active multi-sampling mode, as I explained already above. DX10.1 and DX11 spec's provide enough freedom for developers to implement native AA methods suitable to the specifics of their engines, something critical for the modern complex deferred renderers with multiple off-screen buffers.
 

Durante

Member
That's just wrong. Both NV and AMD support SGSSAA in some games (with sparse sampling patterns). Downsampling is something different. It has a regular grid pattern but much better compatibility.

For more information, read this.
 
That's just wrong. Both NV and AMD support SGSSAA in some games (with sparse sampling patterns). Downsampling is something different. It has a regular grid pattern but much better compatibility.

For more information, read this.

There is also the fact that AMDs SGSSAA (or whatever it is) misses edges in a lot of games.

It doesn't seem very comprehensive.
 

Lime

Member
I haven't tested it, but other Source games have been known to work.

I can't get it to work, unfortunately. The included Respatcher for VMB also doesn't work as long as my monitor can't support that resolution (I'm on AMD, so no DSR for poor old me :( )


Yeah I tried it but it didn't work. Apparently it had something to do with 9.2b Update for VMB, since the Gold version Hotfix made it possible for me to downsample. Whadya know!

Now if only I could get the game to work with SweetFX and GeDoSato at the same time.

Anyone have a Gedosato post processing config for Vampire Bloodlines?

EDIT: Nevermind, edited the post.fx with the proper values
 

kiyomi

Member
So I've been playing The Witcher 2 and while I'm loving the game, there are 2 things that bother me, the lack of good AF it feels like, and I'm in dire need of some better IQ. I don't have the rig to downsample like crazy or anything, so:

1) Is there any way to force TW2 to accept a 2560x1440 downsample? I haven't been successful so far. Tried forceAlwaysDownsamplingRes and the override, but neither work.

2) Any good AF options? Has anyone tried forceAnisoLevel? I haven't because of the warning included. Forcing AF from AMD Catalyst Center doesn't help.


Witcher 1 and 2 should be moved to 'W', btw ;)
 

Durante

Member
You can try forceAnisoLevel, but IIRC Witcher 2 does some strange stuff with its texture sampling and it probably won't work.

However, downsampling W2 should work from any resolution, including 2560x1440. You did add the resolution to the GeDoSaTo config file and select it in the Witcher 2 settings, right? You shouldn't need any special options.
 

Pachimari

Member
I downloaded and installed this but I don't think I understand how to use it.
I booted up The Evil Within but I can't choose anything larger than 1080p, even after pressing Windows Key + G.

I created a GeDoSaTo.ini file in my Evil Within folder, with renderResolution and presentWidth, Height and Hz but I still can't choose it in the game's settings.
 

kiyomi

Member
You can try forceAnisoLevel, but IIRC Witcher 2 does some strange stuff with its texture sampling and it probably won't work.

However, downsampling W2 should work from any resolution, including 2560x1440. You did add the resolution to the GeDoSaTo config file and select it in the Witcher 2 settings, right? You shouldn't need any special options.

Duh, I'm an idiot. You're totally right, I forgot to add it to the list in the config file. Thanks.
 

Alo81

Low Poly Gynecologist
I downloaded and installed this but I don't think I understand how to use it.

I booted up The Evil Within but I can't choose anything larger than 1080p, even after pressing Windows Key + G.

GeDoSaTo currently only works with DX9 games. To get it to work with a DX9 game, you've gotta make sure it's on the whitelist by adding the executables name (minus the .exe part) to the whitelist file.
 

Pachimari

Member
GeDoSaTo currently only works with DX9 games. To get it to work with a DX9 game, you've gotta make sure it's on the whitelist by adding the executables name (minus the .exe part) to the whitelist file.

So before this, I have tried booting up Deus Ex Human Revolution which is already on the whitelist and adding the resolution settings, but even here I can't go any highter than 1920x1080 in the game's settings.

Is that one not a DX9 game (it was on the whitelist by default) and how can I tell? :)
 

Alo81

Low Poly Gynecologist
So before this, I have tried booting up Deus Ex Human Revolution which is already on the whitelist and adding the resolution settings, but even here I can't go any highter than 1920x1080 in the game's settings.

Is that one not a DX9 game (it was on the whitelist by default) and how can I tell? :)

I'm working off of memory, but I believe it has a DX9 and a DX11 mode, and you need to launch in DX9. I could be totally off on this though.
 

Jumpman

Member
For the past month or so Dark Souls II has been tabbing out randomly while using GeDoSaTo. This never happened with the earlier pre-profile builds of the program and I don't think I had issues back in September for example. I've always ran GDST from an admin account and with administrator privileges on top of that. I don't run any other programs in the background whilst playing either other than the required steam launcher. Does anyone have an idea what is causing my problem? Is there a new bug in GDST that wasn't there in earlier builds?

Any insight would be much appreciated since it can be quite annoying to be yanked out of the game mid battle.
 

Afro

Member
Don't know much about GeDoSaTo, but I'll ask this here. Is there a reason to manually downsample through Nvidia Control Panel now that DSR exists? Is DSR still okay for screenshotting or does that smoothing slider interfere somehow? I read DSR has a greater performance hit than the standard method.
 

Dries

Member
Don't know much about GeDoSaTo, but I'll ask this here. Is there a reason to manually downsample through Nvidia Control Panel now that DSR exists? Is DSR still okay for screenshotting or does that smoothing slider interfere somehow? I read DSR has a greater performance hit than the standard method.

Now that DSR exists, I don't see any need to manually downsample.
 

orava

Member
With DSR you also lose the ability to create and use custom resolutions in the nvidia driver options. Pretty much useless for me because of that.
 

Durante

Member
Also topical: I just pushed a new release of GeDoSaTo.

Nothing much end-user visible, except that you can now use modifiers (alt/ctrl/shift) with keybindings. Which most people probably don't need since they only use 1 or 2 GeDoSaTo bindings ;)
 

Durante

Member
The news is that there is no news.

For DX11 support to make progress more quickly, at least one of two things needs to be true:
(a) I have more free time (this could happen around Christmas), or
(b) a game gets released which I want to play and which uses DirectX11

Of course, another possibility is
(c) someone else makes a contribution to it.
 
The news is that there is no news.

For DX11 support to make progress more quickly, at least one of two things needs to be true:
(a) I have more free time (this could happen around Christmas), or
(b) a game gets released which I want to play and which uses DirectX11

Of course, another possibility is
(c) someone else makes a contribution to it.
The upcoming Dark Souls 2 rerelease doesn't qualify for (b), I suppose?
 

Parsnip

Member
The news is that there is no news.

For DX11 support to make progress more quickly, at least one of two things needs to be true:
(a) I have more free time (this could happen around Christmas), or
(b) a game gets released which I want to play and which uses DirectX11

Of course, another possibility is
(c) someone else makes a contribution to it.

I'm curious how dependent of each other the various features are. For example, would post processing for dx11 be possible to implement while downsampling for dx11 is still in progress? Or would everything be kind of layered on top of the core dx11 injection?
 
Is it possible to simply rename a sweetfx preset to post.fx and place it in a game specific folder?? I want to use it with Rayman Legends but I have a preset already annd don't know how to set it up.
 

Alo81

Low Poly Gynecologist
Is it possible to simply rename a sweetfx preset to post.fx and place it in a game specific folder?? I want to use it with Rayman Legends but I have a preset already annd don't know how to set it up.

No that won't work, but you might be able to copy and paste your personal settings from the SweetFx file to the post.fx file.

Just see which settings are enabled, and copy those over.

Also, I'm totally interested to see what your SweetFx profile for Rayman Legends looks like because I'm having trouble imagining a need for SweetFx on that game.
 

BONKERS

Member
awesome, DSR it is.

Remember though, since DSR's ratios are fixed in stupid intervals, there are several scenarios where it's not nearly as useful. Though these are mostly limited to Ratios below 1.5x1.5 . And the resampling filter needs a little more tweaking when using lower ratios.


So a mix of the two is better if you ever on plan on downsampling lesser amounts. For example, if you want to play a game with 1.44x (1.2x1.2) resolution with another form of AA forced or from in game in conjunction for whatever reason like performance. Which depending on the game, can produce better results than you'd think.

Especially when SGSSAA is in the mix.
 
Did somebody actually edit the Google Drive spreadsheet to be titled Asscheeks and the only content is the word "titties?" Alcohol, man. It's owned by Peter Thoman, right?
 

Afro

Member
Remember though, since DSR's ratios are fixed in stupid intervals, there are several scenarios where it's not nearly as useful. Though these are mostly limited to Ratios below 1.5x1.5 . And the resampling filter needs a little more tweaking when using lower ratios.


So a mix of the two is better if you ever on plan on downsampling lesser amounts. For example, if you want to play a game with 1.44x (1.2x1.2) resolution with another form of AA forced or from in game in conjunction for whatever reason like performance. Which depending on the game, can produce better results than you'd think.

Especially when SGSSAA is in the mix.

I use whatever ratio equals 1440p w/ my 1080p monitor. I should be good right? Alien Iso looks stunning.
 
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