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Geena Davis: Female representation in film hasn't been improving much or at all

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Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Interesting article about women in the film industry, both in terms of the workers (actresses, directors, producers etc.) and in term of roles and representation, and explains why representation matters:

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/sep/27/geena-davis-institute-sexism-in-film-industry

For those who feel it's tl;dr I highlighted some particularly interesting passages below:

For her part, Davis has a reputation for making empowered, counter-intuitive choices. She is probably best known as Thelma Dickinson, the radicalised anti-hero in Ridley Scott’s 1991 feminist box-office smash, Thelma & Louise, or as the feisty Dottie Hinson in the 1992 women’s baseball movie, A League of Their Own.

“Having been in some roles that really resonated with women, I became hyper-aware of how women are represented in Hollywood,” she says.

[...]

Patricia Arquette used her Oscars acceptance speech in March to issue a rallying cry for equal pay – top-earning female dramatic actors take home around 40% of the salaries of their male co-stars. In April, Carey Mulligan, who stars in the forthcoming Suffragette, the story of 19th-century campaigners fighting for women’s right to vote, called the movie industry “massively sexist”. That same month, her co-star Meryl Streep announced she was funding a screenwriters’ lab for women writers over 40. In May, the actor Elizabeth Banks, who had just directed her first feature, Pitch Perfect 2, admitted there were “systemic problems” regarding gender inequality in the movie business. In July, Emma Thompson claimed that “some forms of sexism and unpleasantness to women have become more entrenched and indeed more prevalent”. Earlier this month, Anne Hathaway told the New York Times that, professionally speaking, she had been “treated differently because I was a woman”.

Has Davis ever experienced sexism in the industry?

“Yeah, you know, I’ve definitely seen sexism on the set, though not that much directed at me.” She’s been lucky, she says. The only thing that comes to mind is an occasion when a director commented on how much he enjoyed hugging her each morning because: “It’s the only chance I get to feel you up.”

[...]

Success stories such as Kathryn Bigelow, who was the first woman to win the Academy Award for best director with The Hurt Locker (2009) are extremely rare (and when I ask one Hollywood producer why Bigelow broke through where others did not, he replies without missing a beat: “Because she was married to [Titanic director] James Cameron. They knew if she fucked it up, he could step in and save the day.” This in spite of the fact the couple had divorced several years before she made the film in question). In fact, the proportion of female directors handed the reins on the highest-grossing films has actually fallen over the past 17 years, and only 5% of cinematographers are women. The same study revealed that a paltry 19.9% of female characters were 40 to 64 years old.

At 59, Davis is familiar with the crushing silence of a phone that never rings. Women in film are, she says “definitely” discriminated against because of their age.

“I was averaging about one movie a year my whole career and that was because I’m fussy. I probably could have done more. And then in my 40s I made one movie… And I was positive it wasn’t going to happen to me because I got a lot of great parts for women. I was very fortunate to have all that stuff happen and never get typecast, so I was just cruising along thinking: ‘Well yeah, it won’t happen to me.’ It did.”

[...]

When Davis’s daughter Alizeh was born in 2002 she started noticing something else: when she watched animated or children’s films, Davis was struck by the lack of female characters on show.

“It was really shocking,” she says. “I first just mentioned it to my friends and said, ‘Did you notice in that movie that just came out there was only one female creature in the whole movie? Besides the mother who dies in the first five minutes?’ And none of them had noticed. Feminist friends, mothers of daughters, none of them noticed until I pointed it out.”

She started talking to studio bosses and industry figures. Across the board, she was told gender representation was not a problem. It had been fixed: “And very often they would name a movie with one female character as proof.”

So Davis sponsored the largest ever study on gender depictions in family-rated films and children’s television (“I take everything too far,” she admits). The research spanned a 20-year period. It found that for every female speaking character there were three males, while female characters made up just 17% of crowd scenes.

“I told somebody that just the other day and they said, ‘Well it seems like you’d have to work at making it that few,’” Davis says with a chuckle.

Her point is that even in a fictional setting, created from our collective 21st-century imagination, we seem – subconsciously or otherwise – to believe a 17% female representation is the natural state of affairs.

“That ratio is everywhere,” Davis says. “US congress? 17% women. Fortune 500 boards are 17%. Law partners and tenured professors and military are 17% female. Cardiac surgeons are 17%. That’s the percentage of women in the Animation Guild. Journalists, print journalists, are 19% women.

[...]

The director Lynne Ramsay (Ratcatcher, We Need to Talk About Kevin) cites a handful of occasions when a predominantly male crew would underestimate her because of her diminutive height and would call her “bitchy or bossy” where a male director would simply be regarded as assertive.

[...]

That seems odd, given the preponderance of films in recent years featuring strong female leads, such as Trainwreck, Bridesmaids, The Hunger Games franchise or even Mamma Mia!. But, says Davis: “In fact, the ratio of male to female characters has been exactly the same since 1946. So all the times that the press has announced that now things are better, or now things are changing, they haven’t.

“There always comes a point where they’re trying to spot a trend, which would be great. The year that Mamma Mia! and Sex and the City were both gigantic hits internationally [the media were saying] ‘Now, beyond a doubt, we’ve proven giant summer blockbusters with women will change [the industry]…’ Nothing changed.

“And it happened to me twice. That’s how I became aware of the phenomenon. After Thelma & Louise, which was pretty noticed and potent and significant, [people were saying] ‘This changes everything! There’s going to be so many female buddy movies!’ and nothing changed. And then the next movie I did was A League of Their Own, which was a huge hit and all the talk was, ‘Well now, beyond a doubt, women’s sports movies, we’re going to see a wave of them because this was so successful.’ That’s balls. It took 10 years until Bend It Like Beckham came out. So, there was no trend whatsoever.

“It keeps happening, and we keep falling for this notion that now there’s Bridesmaids, now there’s Hunger Games…” She trails off. “It hasn’t started a trend.”


[...]

With the bar already set much higher for female directors than male, they are also given fewer second chances. Women with a box office failure don’t get hired again. Even when they succeed, they struggle: Lisa Cholodenko received four Academy Awards nominations for The Kids Are All Right in 2011, including one for best picture. Afterwards, she was rewarded with almost exclusively small-screen offers.

Mimi Leder directed the sci-fi disaster flick, Deep Impact in 1998, then took time off to have a child. She returned with the box-office flop, Pay It Forward in 2000 – a move that, by her own admission, landed her “in movie jail”. Since then, she too has been directing TV shows.

“If a movie starring or written by or directed by a man flops, people don’t blame the gender of the creator,” the writer and director Diablo Cody told Variety magazine last July. “It’s just kind of weird how the blame is always immediately placed on female directors.”

[...]

Is that a particularly female trait: not wanting to cause trouble and needing, above all, to be liked?

“Yeah. [It’s] ‘I don’t want you to think I have needs or anything.’ I was very, very, very much that way.”

Of course there is no simple solution to the endemic problem of the under-representation of women in film. Davis is not a fan of quotas for the creative industries but she says one of the easiest ways to make an impact is to smash the psychological barrier of 17% on screen and to start doing that now.

“The one area where we could reach parity overnight is on screen, absolutely overnight… My two-pronged solution to the entire problem is just before you cast a film or a TV show, go through the characters and change a bunch of first names to female – hooray! Now you’ve got a gender-balanced cast, you’ve got female characters who are un-stereotyped because they were written actually for a man and then, wherever it says, ‘a crowd gathers’, put ‘which is half female’. And that’ll happen.”

Her suggestion is a valid one: the more representations there are of women doing interesting or unexpected or powerful things, the more we become culturally acclimatised.

“I really think if we change what kids see from the beginning, it will change how they grow up,” Davis says. “You know, we’re creating problems that we have to solve later… If we show them that women take up half the space and boys and girls share the sandbox equally from the beginning, it will change everything.”

In 2005, Davis starred in a TV drama called Commander in Chief in which she played a female president. True, she ascends to the post from vice-president after the incumbent dies in office – the gender-blindness didn’t extend so far as to suggest a woman could actually have been elected – but she did win a Golden Globe for best actress.

“I was only in office for one season – I had a tragically short administration,” says Davis (who, incidentally, is a Hillary Clinton supporter in the race for US president). “But they did a survey afterwards that showed that people were 63% more likely to vote for a female candidate for president.

Long article but well worth the read. Needless to say, this doesn't apply only to the movie industry. ;) The part where one example of a female-led movie is cited as "proof" that "sexism is over" is such a painfully common argument when it comes to discussing representation in video games, for instance.

Another interesting part is about changing first names to female to give parts written for men to women, to get not only a better gender balance but also less stereotyped characters; I think it would be a pretty solid starting solution, really. It's actually how Ellen Ripley, possibly the most famous and popular female lead in sci-fi film, came to be, as her character in Alien was initially meant to be male, and the gender (and nothing else, no dialogue, nothing) was changed before casting.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
I was just watching that so bad it's nearly good spy movie with her and Sam Jack in a hotel a few days ago and wondering what happened to her career. She had a nice little run for a while there.

She raises some good points but Hollywood seems obsessed with safe money these days.
 
She was so damn fine in Earth Girls Are Easy. My first huge crush. She can still rock that Rockford Peach uniform.

Laura Roslin was a great president in Galactica. We do need more of that kinda thing.
 

Melon Husk

Member
They cast Carey Mulligan for a film about Adelaide Clemens' role in Parade's End?

Thread: The 17% figure is interesting, sounds like a job for a PhD candidate in sociology.
 

Toxi

Banned
Then there’s the merchandise, which counts for an increasing amount of revenue. According to Bloomberg, if a movie reaches $1bn at the box office, associated merchandise sales (action figures, lunch boxes,T-shirts, Darth Vader Colour Change Lightsabers and so on) will average between $250m and $300m. The Star Wars franchise alone has generated $12bn in toy sales.

The rumour in Hollywood is that female action figures don’t have shelf-appeal and are harder to shift. Apparently, studio executives are worried they will take a hit on the merchandise revenues for the next year’s all-female Ghostbusters movie, directed by Paul Feig, for just this reason.
This belief is ridiculously resilient for toy companies too. Mattel's Avatar the Last Airbender action figure line didn't include a single female character. This meant no Katara, no Toph, no Azula, no Suki, some of the show's most prominent characters. Predictably, the line bombed despite the show's incredible popularity.

Success stories such as Kathryn Bigelow, who was the first woman to win the Academy Award for best director with The Hurt Locker (2009) are extremely rare (and when I ask one Hollywood producer why Bigelow broke through where others did not, he replies without missing a beat: “Because she was married to [Titanic director] James Cameron. They knew if she fucked it up, he could step in and save the day.” This in spite of the fact the couple had divorced several years before she made the film in question).
When did Sculli become a producer? :p
 

Envelope

sealed with a kiss
She was so damn fine in Earth Girls Are Easy. My first huge crush. She can still rock that Rockford Peach uniform.

Laura Roslin was a great president in Galactica. We do need more of that kinda thing.

start off by mentioning how hot she is in a thread about sexism

gj
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Geena Davis might as well have been abducted by aliens with how she disappeared from movie screens seemingly overnight.

Cutthroat Island hurt her pretty badly. Modine's career too, come to think of it, not to mention the swashbuckling genre.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
I ask one Hollywood producer why Bigelow broke through where others did not, he replies without missing a beat: “Because she was married to [Titanic director] James Cameron. They knew if she fucked it up, he could step in and save the day.” This in spite of the fact the couple had divorced several years before she made the film in question)

Depressingly, I can believe someone saying this. Fuck me.
 

Oersted

Member
And she counts herself as one of the luckier ones. Craziness. :|

Yep. Its crazy how this can be considered relatively normal and not utterly out of line.

She was so damn fine in Earth Girls Are Easy. My first huge crush. She can still rock that Rockford Peach uniform.

Laura Roslin was a great president in Galactica. We do need more of that kinda thing.

I aim to please.

She spent probably 70% of that film in a very skimpy bikini. She didn't have a problem with it then.




Also hot FWIW.

Unbelievable.
 
There's some fantastic roles for (caucasian)woman out there, but she's still not wrong, most aren't interesting and are regulated to a more rote existence.
 

$h@d0w

Junior Member
This is kind of stuff is why I wish Anita Sarkeesian would look at other mediums apart from games, she would do such a great job here.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Unbelievable.
I dare say it's simply all too believable. Women will never be anything more than their bodies for some people.

This is kind of stuff is why I wish Anita Sarkeesian would look at other mediums apart from games, she would do such a great job here.
Is this for real? It's a well known fact that she was doing Tropes v Women in TV long before starting her videos on games....
 

entremet

Member
I've always enjoyed Geena Davis. She was very prolific when I watched more movies. Sad it's hard for her to find roles.

Outside of a few mega talents like Meryl Streep, once you hit a certain age, Hollywood tends to forget about you if you're woman. It's sad.

I dare say it's simply all too believable. Women will never be anything more than their bodies for some people.


Is this for real? It's a well known fact that she was doing Tropes v Women in TV long before starting her videos on games....

I don't know if it's a well known fact. She came into prominence from her KS, which spawned Tropes v. Women in Videogames.
 

Big_Al

Unconfirmed Member
Doesn't surprise me in the slightest reading that, great read thanks for posting that OP.

Love Geena Davis and wish she was in more films these days, always had a soft spot for her. Great actor.


I was just watching that so bad it's nearly good spy movie with her and Sam Jack in a hotel a few days ago and wondering what happened to her career. She had a nice little run for a while there.

She raises some good points but Hollywood seems obsessed with safe money these days.

The Long Kiss Goodnight and it's not 'so bad it's nearly good' it's a fucking awesome 90s action film. One of my favourite from that era.

"That's a duck, not a dick"
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
She spent probably 70% of that film in a very skimpy bikini. She didn't have a problem with it then.




Also hot FWIW.

If this were a topic about that film, sure. But it is a problem if her doing that film defines her entire existence as only a sex object and nothing more, such as by ignoring everything she said and going straight to referencing how she looked in that film.
 

Toxi

Banned
This reminds me of something I read recently about Star Wars.

Try to remember how many female characters have dialogue in the original Star Wars/A New Hope. Then compare to how many male characters with dialogue are in the movie. Include any minor character.

Then try to remember how many female characters have dialogue in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, and how many male characters.

After 28 years, the number of women with dialogue in Star Wars went from two (Leia and Aunt Beru) to one (Padme). Note that this is including everyone with dialogue, from main characters to the Death Star guy that says "stand by". Somehow, despite each having a major female character and despite each having no shortage of minor characters with lines, both movies have just those women with dialogue. Interestingly, Episode III actually has plenty of female extras, they're just seen and not heard.

For some reason, a lot of movies seem to have the mandatory female protagonist/love interest and then everybody else is a guy.
This is kind of stuff is why I wish Anita Sarkeesian would look at other mediums apart from games, she would do such a great job here.
Sarkeesian has looked at other mediums. For example, she did a video on LEGO's marketing.
 

El Topo

Member
After 28 years, the number of women with dialogue in Star Wars went from two (Leia and Aunt Beru) to one (Padme). Note that this is including everyone with dialogue, from main characters to the Death Star guy that says "stand by". Somehow, despite each having a major female character and despite each having no shortage of minor characters with lines, both movies have just those women with dialogue. Interestingly, Episode III actually has plenty of female extras, they're just seen and not heard.

That's technically not quite true. Mon Mothma had a few lines and I think Padme's handmaiden might have had one or two lines as well. Nonetheless, you are right and it's embarassing how women have been treated in the Star Wars movies. Many joke about black people in the Star Wars movies, but think about what they do. A black guy blew up the second Death Star and another beat the Emperor in battle. Then think about what women accomplish in the Star Wars movies. It's sad.

For some reason, a lot of movies seem to have the mandatory female protagonist/love interest and then everybody else is a guy.

Pretty much.
 

Kettch

Member
I don't watch a particularly wide range of movies, but I can't even name a female director, so there's definitely a problem there.
 
That's technically not quite true.

No, it's true.

Only two women have speaking lines in Star Wars: Princess Leia and Aunt Beru. Only one woman has any lines in Revenge of the Sith: Padme. Although one of the robots that helps deliver the twins has a female voice.

(the confusion might be in that they're not referencing the entire series when they say Star Wars, but just the 1977 movie)

Anyway, this is the part that jumped out at me:

Her point is that even in a fictional setting, created from our collective 21st-century imagination, we seem – subconsciously or otherwise – to believe a 17% female representation is the natural state of affairs.

“That ratio is everywhere,” Davis says. “US congress? 17% women. Fortune 500 boards are 17%. Law partners and tenured professors and military are 17% female. Cardiac surgeons are 17%. That’s the percentage of women in the Animation Guild. Journalists, print journalists, are 19% women.

I mean, it's not new knowledge, but it's still something to take a step back from and go "what in the hell."

Over half the population. Less than a quarter representation.
 

El Topo

Member
No, it's true.

Only two women have speaking lines in Star Wars: Princess Leia and Aunt Beru. Only one woman has any lines in Revenge of the Sith: Padme. Although one of the robots that helps deliver the twins has a female voice.

(the confusion might be in that they're not referencing the entire series when they say Star Wars, but just the 1977 movie)

Oh, just the 1977 movie and RotS. I got that wrong. Right. You're right. Sorry Toxi.
 

dLMN8R

Member

Ahasverus

Member
You better hope this becomes a hit

Wonder-Woman-Promo-Art-600x340.jpg
 

TL21xx

Banned
Very depressing read. Hopefully younger filmmakers can work to help prevent this from continuing into the future. I know I certainly will keep these figures in mind going into the future.

There is one quote that's being taken out of context though.

Success stories such as Kathryn Bigelow, who was the first woman to win the Academy Award for best director with The Hurt Locker (2009) are extremely rare (and when I ask one Hollywood producer why Bigelow broke through where others did not, he replies without missing a beat: “Because she was married to [Titanic director] James Cameron. They knew if she fucked it up, he could step in and save the day.” This in spite of the fact the couple had divorced several years before she made the film in question).

The way the quote reads to me is that the producer is referring to how she got her start, not how she managed to get the movie made. Her first major studio film was Point Break, which was made when she was married to Jim.
 

Toxi

Banned
I mean, it's not new knowledge, but it's still something to take a step back from and go "what in the hell."

Over half the population. Less than a quarter representation.
According to Catalyst.org, she's off for tenured positions, though there's still a large disparity.

While women held nearly half (48.4%) of all tenure-track positions in 2013, they held just 37.5% of tenured positions.28
http://www.catalyst.org/knowledge/women-academia
 

Crud

Banned
We still have just about every film failing the Bechdel test.

My gf told me about the new Green Inferno movie and some of the scenes involving
putting a claw into girls vaginas to find out who is a virgin
Shit is beyond disgusting.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
That's technically not quite true. Mon Mothma had a few lines and I think Padme's handmaiden might have had one or two lines as well. Nonetheless, you are right and it's embarassing how women have been treated in the Star Wars movies. Many joke about black people in the Star Wars movies, but think about what they do. A black guy blew up the second Death Star and another beat the Emperor in battle. Then think about what women accomplish in the Star Wars movies. It's sad.

Leia at least got to strangle Jabba the Hutt to death, so there's that I guess.
 
You better hope this becomes a hit

Wonder-Woman-Promo-Art-600x340.jpg

Well, as per the article, it could very well be the most successful thing since sliced bread and it still wouldn't change anything.

Which is twicely depressing, seemingly suggesting that not even money can make whole hearted capitalists less sexist.
 

jett

D-Member
Geena Davis probably disappeared due to the career-ending flop that was Cutthroat Island.

That was a sad read, anyway.
 
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