I highly doubt there was ever a civilization.
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Geobiologist finds potential signs of ancient life in Mars rover photos
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I highly doubt there was ever a civilization.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
As far as I understand: Earth will likely suffer the same fate as Mars in that the global magnetic field could be lost, and with it the atmosphere could be stripped away. But this will take an extremely long time.
Hopefully that far in the future our geo-engineering abilities are so advanced that we could induce magnetic fields in planets. But that is assuming we - or rather our ancestors - exist that far into the future.
Well based on the pattern of mass extinctions in the past, it does seem fairly likely that humans won't be around for much longer. But we do have a big advantage over the organisms that came before us, which is that we understand our plight.
terrisus
Member
Also, yea, Mars life wouldn't really have anything to do with the Great Filter. That only applies to civilizations that just kill themselves after a certain level of advancement.
This would be more along the lines of something like the Permian extinction I imagine. Fascinating, but little implications for whether we'll accidentally create a black hole or germ weapon and wipe ourselves out one day.
This would be more along the lines of something like the Permian extinction I imagine. Fascinating, but little implications for whether we'll accidentally create a black hole or germ weapon and wipe ourselves out one day.
Professor Renegade
Banned
MASS EFFECT
What if they are really tiny civilizations.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I'm going to try my best at beating entropy.
You already lost.
HolyBaikal
Banned
We can turn earth into a space-ship."Might?"
Though it kind of already is one.
But I think we're going to eventually turn all of the resources in our solar system into something else. Like a big space colony or something.
I think we're going to turn the sun into a power generator before it swallows earth.
It might not be "uncommon" on the scale of the ENTIRE GALAXY, but it would always be uncommon as hell for us to find it given:
1. The galaxy, never mind the universe, is unspeakably massive
2. Life has existed on Earth for billions of years and has only reached a stage "we call" civilized in the last .0000000001^7 fraction of that time, and there have been multiple extinction events in the same period. The odds of us finding evidence of intelligent life or encountering it are ridiculously, ridiculously low (though not impossible).
3. Since it presumably would have an entirely different and alien evolutionary structure and DNA, we may not even recognize it when we see it.
I think hoping for anything resembling an organized advanced multicellular creature (like say a martian ant colony) is high hopes.
I think we will eventually find living bacteria there. And then it will kill us all.
Neuromancer
Member
Whatever happened here, I think we missed it.
Sounds like the Morlocks from The Time Machine.
HolyBaikal
Banned
Nope! I'm going to turn the entire universe into like a white whole in the whole multiverse, making infinite complexity.
Maybe I won't, but I'm not gonna give up!
Orbis Tabula
Member
"Might?"
Oh, well that's fortunate. Looks like Earth will be right inside that blue ring of safety!
Fenderputty
Banned
I get all this. I get the time it would take to travel distances etc etc. The Fermi paradox etc etc.
Possibly being common in the scale of the universe is still a giant implication even if we can't reasonably get anywhere in it.
EDIT: I get that intelligent life would be a bigger find too. There's just seems to be a sentiment in here that microbial life isn't minblowing because it's not intelligent.
EDIT 2: See the ignorant post 2 below this one.
fight the balance
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Why should we care of life that we cannot see? Im sure there is "life" in our volcanos too
You're losing the fight by even trying.
Neuromancer
Member
Because all life started off as microscopic.
Pinko Marx
Banned
"Might?"
Wouldn't our sun just "push" us further away as it got larger? Like...Wouldn't our orbit just expand?
In order to find intelligent life in the galaxy, we basically have to coincide with them in both the same SPACE and the same TIME. Y'dig? I can't imagine the odds are very high of that.
As far as finding evidence of -past- intelligent life, that would be pretty damn hard. In a billion years you won't be able to even see the faces on Mt. Rushmore anymore, there'll be no discernible trace of us. So essentially we'd have to get incredibly lucky that advanced life once existed on Mars, and incredibly lucky that it was recent enough that evidence of it hasn't eroded entirely. It's like winning two lottery tickets.
I'd love to find a Prothean data cache, but let's be realistic here. I would not be shocked at all to find evidence of microbial life on Mars, in fact I'm completely expecting it to happen one day. But I'll be amazed if we find so much as a fossil of an animal that walked around on the ground. If we find life, odds are very good it never advanced past the equivalent of Trilobites here on Earth, but some of you are already hyping up civilizations? Wishful thinking!
Again, I'd be the first one to f'ing love signs of more advanced life, but you need to keep some context here on how rare that actually is.
As far as finding evidence of -past- intelligent life, that would be pretty damn hard. In a billion years you won't be able to even see the faces on Mt. Rushmore anymore, there'll be no discernible trace of us. So essentially we'd have to get incredibly lucky that advanced life once existed on Mars, and incredibly lucky that it was recent enough that evidence of it hasn't eroded entirely. It's like winning two lottery tickets.
I'd love to find a Prothean data cache, but let's be realistic here. I would not be shocked at all to find evidence of microbial life on Mars, in fact I'm completely expecting it to happen one day. But I'll be amazed if we find so much as a fossil of an animal that walked around on the ground. If we find life, odds are very good it never advanced past the equivalent of Trilobites here on Earth, but some of you are already hyping up civilizations? Wishful thinking!
Again, I'd be the first one to f'ing love signs of more advanced life, but you need to keep some context here on how rare that actually is.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
so? Life started on Mars at micro stage but died out? How exciting
Why would it? Our orbit would expand if the Sun's gravitational pull got weaker, but I don't think the expansion into a red giant involves it shedding any mass, just growing in size.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Probably something to do with denseness vs mass vs size.
The idea he's getting at is easiest to see at the extreme: imagine we find hundreds of planets which once held life but now no longer do. That would be amazing, but also strongly suggest that life isn't likely to persist and populate the galaxy. If every origin of life seems to die off, then it becomes increasingly likely that we will die off, too.
Fenderputty
Banned
This sentiment is depressing.
I guess I've just always operated as though this were true. Finding old dead life on Mars doesn't change this perspective for me.
I believe that we're in its midst. The Great Filter is likely the period when a civilization can destroy itself entirely until it starts to colonize the galaxy. If we really needed to, I'm sure we could start trying to colonize it soon (send a ship with test tube babies and a computer towards the closest super-Earth). I'm rooting for us to pass through it unscathed, but have serious doubts.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Sometimes I think that, as Voyager keeps travelling out of our Solar System, it'll be like the Truman show and we'll just
bump up against a wall and suddenly realize we're just in a big tv studio for aliens to watch.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
"Might?"
By that time we'll have developed a planetary solar shield around the Earth that will allow us to live and flourish inside of the sun.
So don't worry about it!
Exactly, it's monumentally exciting.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Im sure there is life elsewhere, even intelligent life, but finding dead microlife on another planet is not that exciting.
HolyBaikal
Banned
How so?
Gravity pulls never pushes.
Entropy always increases. Your attempts to find ways to circumvent it are just increasing entropy.
Graphics Horse
Member
:lol
If life on mars never got past the microbial stage and you really want to take one other data point as sufficient evidence then the Great Filter may be behind us by virtue of earthly life having achieved the level of complexity it has. Using the Wikipedia list the existence of past life on mars only rules out steps one through four, and even then where looking at all of two data points. Of course even if that's true there's nothing to say there's not more then one filter.
Expending more energy increases entropy at a greater rate.
Fenderputty
Banned
Like I said. Absolutely short-sighted and depressing perspective.
LookAtMeGo
Member
We totally came from Mars. 2 childeren were sent here in a escape pod at the last moment to populate earth right before aliens destroyed Mars.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
I thought that it was pretty much confirmed that since there is ice there, that life in the sense of microorganisms probably existed? Or is this the sense that we are close to actual confirmation and not it probable/likely happening.
HolyBaikal
Banned
Maybe we have a different understanding of the world entropy.
By the way, would you consider a white hole anti-entropic?
ALL forms of existence end eventually. This is the one of most basic facts we know of the universe.
This includes the earth, and everything we've ever done. It will dissolve in time. The fact we're here, now, is simply good enough. Any attempts to change this only show one does not understand the game of nature as we know it.
This is super interesting, hopefully more conclusive evidence is found.
This explains my love of Mars bars. It's just patriotism!
This explains my love of Mars bars. It's just patriotism!
The sun is actually losing mass and the Earth's orbit as a result is expanding at a rate of 3 millimeters a year. Unfortunately once the sun hits its red giant phase, it expands so rapidly that the Earth will be swallowed up before it can drift far enough away.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I think that with as fast as technology is exponentially increasing, we'll be able to save the planet.
The final boss is stopping dark energy from destroying the universe.
The final boss is stopping dark energy from destroying the universe.
Neuromancer
Member
I believe the idea was that water being on Mars opened up the possibility for life, not a confirmation.
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