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George Lucas Making Changes to Star Wars Saga... Again

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Salmonax said:
Seems just as bad to me. I can't believe Lucas actually topped Jedi Rocks with a worse edit.

Well in the out of sync clip, the first NO drowns out Luke's scream of "Father".

I know I'm in the minority here, but this just doesn't really bother me.

EDIT: Let me just say that I do agree that the change is unnecessary, but not the egregious sin that everyone is howling about. (shrug)
 
richiek said:
OK, here's the ACTUAL Blu ray rip of the NOOOOOOO scene:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27RVJJfny4I


Now that the sound is actually in sync, it does mesh better with the scene. I know fans will still shit on it tho.
It sounds even worse in context. Why doesn't the Emperor react at all to the first "no"?

It's a totally jarring, halfassed, poorly thought out change. I was going to buy the Blu-rays because I don't mind the DVD SEs at all, but ruining the most important (and my personal favorite) scene in the OT is just a bit too far. I'll be saving $40 this month.
 
The Lamonster said:
The first "no" actually isn't too bad. The second "no" is embarrassing, just like his "no" in ROTS.
Yeah, the first one isn't that bad.

If I were a director/screenwriter/actor, I think I'd be one of the ones who wouldn't like to watch the work when it was finished, so the constant tinkering is kind of odd to me.

Whatever, though.

Show Lucas the blueprints.
 
richiek said:
OK, here's the ACTUAL Blu ray rip of the NOOOOOOO scene:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27RVJJfny4I


Now that the sound is actually in sync, it does mesh better with the scene. I know fans will still shit on it tho.
FiGhu.jpg
 
At some point you kind of just have to throw your hands up and say "Fuck it, I don't care anymore."

That's what I did in 1997 and haven't looked back.
 
Aigis said:
It sounds even worse in context. Why doesn't the Emperor react at all to the first "no"?

1)Because he doesn't yell it out, Vader seems to be saying it to himself?

2)Palpatine is too busy noisily torturing Luke (the lightning and Luke's screams are drowning out Vader's first No), and doesn't think his underling is capable of turning on him? ("Your overconfidence is your weakness")
 
Instead of reacting to Luke being electrocuted, he should be reacting to a weather balloon that comically indicates that he has a large butt

or instead of a weather balloon, the Death Star itself
 
AbsoluteZero said:
At some point you kind of just have to throw your hands up and say "Fuck it, I don't care anymore."

That's what I did in 1997 and haven't looked back.
i've been that way for the most part, but this is too much
he completely ruined one of the most powerful/important scenes in the entire fucking saga
 
richiek said:
Well in the out of sync clip, the first NO drowns out Luke's scream of "Father".

I know I'm in the minority here, but this just doesn't really bother me.

EDIT: Let me just say that I do agree that the change is unnecessary, but not the egregious sin that everyone is howling about. (shrug)

No, I guess it doesn't bother you. After all, you think this...

richiek said:
You know, now I'm scratching my head at all these trivial changes. I was hoping for more broad, sweeping changes to better bridge the OT and PT, like more scenes on Coruscant, having Jimmy Smits as old Bail Organa, adding the Imperial March to ANH or altering the Obi-Wan / Vader duel to make it more fast paced.

...is a good idea.
 
I'm kind of a weird fan in that I really love the prequel trilogy too, but the one thing that always bothered me was that stupid Vader NOOOO. It sounded absolutely ridiculous and just shit up the ending of that movie and that trilogy. It's just absolutely crazy to me that something that even I as a fan of those movies hated and was one of the most made fun of things in those prequel trilogies is now put into the original trilogy almost exactly. I'm actually pretty sure that is the same NOOOO sound from the prequel trilogy. I guess he just wanted both trilogies to cap off with the same ridiculous sound.

A lot of the other changes over the years I don't really care about, but the change to the scene with Greedo and Han is still just fucking jarring. It's horribly edited and I can't see how anyone could look at that scene and go "yep, looks fine to me." Even if somehow the characterization of Han in Lucas' mind makes more sense that way I would think if he had any semblance of a sane mind he'd see that scene and think "Nope, this looks fucking stupid. It's poorly done. Either do it better or Han will have to be different than what I see in my brain." It's baffling really.
 
Tobor said:
No, I guess it doesn't bother you. After all, you think this...



...is a good idea.

And what of it? Many have advocated that Lucas should just completely remake the OT with modern technology so that it fits better with the PT as opposed to the little ticky-tack changes he's been doing throughout the years.

Sorry that my outrage against Lucas isn't to your liking.
 
richiek said:
And what of it? Many have advocated that Lucas should just completely remake the OT with modern technology so that it fits better with the PT as opposed to the little ticky-tack changes he's been doing throughout the years.

Sorry that my outrage against Lucas isn't to your liking.

It's fine. You just have extremely poor taste.
 
Khold said:
First no is ok now that it's quieter...

Silence was still by far the most appropriate...
It's almost as if Vader's body language is enough to convey his conflicted feelings, without the need to telegraph them in an obvious and blunt way so stupid people can grasp the fact that he's conflicted.

Of all the changes Lucas has done, this is perhaps the most needless. (Right up there with the extra musical number in Jedi.)
 
What will suck is one day in the world of people wanting downloadable movies instead of physical based ones is that Lucas will be able to change the content, replace the old one, and that's the version you will download from now on without access to the old one anymore.
 
GhaleonEB said:
It's almost as if Vader's body language is enough to convey his conflicted feelings, without the need to telegraph them in an obvious and blunt way so stupid people can grasp the fact that he's conflicted.

Not to mention that the music in that scene tells the entire story without needing a word.
 
GhaleonEB said:
It's almost as if Vader's body language is enough to convey his conflicted feelings, without the need to telegraph them in an obvious and blunt way so stupid people can grasp the fact that he's conflicted.

Of all the changes Lucas has done, this is perhaps the most needless. (Right up there with the extra musical number in Jedi.)

I always thought that he was killing the Emperor because he finally saw his chance to take over.

*trollface*
 
GhaleonEB said:
Also, this.

When the music crescendos into the Force theme when Vader moves to pick up the Emperor and throw him...man, that is one of John Williams' finest moments.

Now sullied thanks to ol' Georgy boy.
 
It's kinda funny, actually, I remember watching the OT with the commentary on, a few years back, one of the DVD releases. That part, with Vader watching the Emperor light up Luke's teeth, had them (I don't recall if it was Lucas himself or someone else who commented) express how impressed they were at how much emotion they managed to get out of a static mask staring silently, and how well that moment ended up working.

Times change.
 
I actually don't mind the Vader NOO. It's a little silly they felt the need to add it. I don't like the idea of it. But the actual clip doesn't bother me..
 
AbsoluteZero said:
At some point you kind of just have to throw your hands up and say "Fuck it, I don't care anymore."

That's what I did in 1997 and haven't looked back.

I did think I was at that point. The Vader scene was too much though. Not that Lucas was getting any money from me anyway for this release.
 
I really don't understand how people think the first 'no' actually "isn't that bad." In my opinion, it's possibly worse than the second one for a couple of reasons.

First, the line delivery is absolutely awful, the pitch raise at the end indicates some sort of questioning . . . "no?" . . . which to my ears just sounds ridiculously stupid and out of place for Vader's character (particularly ignoring the prequel trilogy and going by the portrayal people would have seen up to that point in the films release order).

Second, the first "no" sounds horrible in all the mixes I've heard, too loud and sounds obviously pasted into the scene.

Third, it covers up the sound of Luke being tortured and, in particular, covers up him calling out "father" - which, imo, is a far more effective cue for something that would finally get through to Anakin in that moment. In fact, it's almost like Luke says, "Father!!" and Vader goes "No? I don't think I'm your father." It's ridiculous.

Along those same lines, the sounds of Luke's torture lets you visualize the scene Vader is seeing as his son is tortured, and that shot of just him looking lets the audience fill in his conflict with much more effectiveness than either of these added lines manages to do. The dub not only makes Vader sound like he's making some funny questioning face under that mask, but also ruins the impact of hearing Luke that always stood out to me during that shot.

The entire sequence on the Deathstar between Luke, Vader, and Palpatine is some of the most well scored and epic stuff in the OT, and to cover up that great music with either "nooooo" is unacceptable. Imagine if they'd dubbed some horrible father/son banter between Luke and Vader during their climactic saber fight under the stairs after Vader threatens Leia, Luke attacks, and and the chorus kicks in with possibly the most amazing musical cue in the entire trilogy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymYj4P_yRyo#t=1m09s
 
This is hardly the first time Darth Vader's been changed for the worse. Remember at the end of ESB, when his perfectly curt "bring my shuttle" line was altered to the bland "alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival". This was then followed by a whole arrival scene for benefit of everyone too stupid to figure out how he got to his Star Destroyer. It's as if Lucas is purposefully softening up the character and missing the point in the process.
 
tuffy said:
This is hardly the first time Darth Vader's been changed for the worse. Remember at the end of ESB, when his perfectly curt "bring my shuttle" line was altered to the bland "alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival". This was then followed by a whole arrival scene for benefit of everyone too stupid to figure out how he got to his Star Destroyer. It's as if Lucas is purposefully softening up the character and missing the point in the process.

Lucas doesn't get the art of not telling everything. This is another one of those changes where it is pretty clear that everything has to be spelled out so that everyone below an IQ of 50 knows what is going on.
 
Xater said:
Lucas doesn't get the art of not telling everything. This is another one of those changes where it is pretty clear that everything has to be spelled out so that everyone below an IQ of 50 knows what is going on.

And yet the entire Sifo Dyas/Dooku/Clone order placing/someone deleted Kamino from the archive thing went completely unanswered in the films. Likewise the "how the Jedi learned to become Force ghosts" thing. If he's so worried about people understanding the basic plot, it's weird how he hasn't managed to fix the basic plot in so many places and instead adds in this pointless crap to perfectly functional scenes.
 
tuffy said:
This is hardly the first time Darth Vader's been changed for the worse. Remember at the end of ESB, when his perfectly curt "bring my shuttle" line was altered to the bland "alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival". This was then followed by a whole arrival scene for benefit of everyone too stupid to figure out how he got to his Star Destroyer. It's as if Lucas is purposefully softening up the character and missing the point in the process.

And that arrival scene is just an alternate take from Return of the Jedi.
 
MattKeil said:
And yet the entire Sifo Dyas/Dooku/Clone order placing/someone deleted Kamino from the archive thing went completely unanswered in the films. Likewise the "how the Jedi learned to become Force ghosts" thing.

That one is a deleted scene on the Blu-Ray set thanks to Liam Neeson refusing to record the lines.
 
He knows how much everyone hated Vader's NOOOOO from EIII. Hell, he knew how much everyone hated Jar Jar, and toned him down in the next two films accordingly, to the point that he more or less has no lines in EIII. He knows the NOOOOOO is hated and laughed at by pretty much everyone, even people who liked the prequels.

So why go out of your way to piss people off?
 
tuffy said:
This is hardly the first time Darth Vader's been changed for the worse. Remember at the end of ESB, when his perfectly curt "bring my shuttle" line was altered to the bland "alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival". This was then followed by a whole arrival scene for benefit of everyone too stupid to figure out how he got to his Star Destroyer. It's as if Lucas is purposefully softening up the character and missing the point in the process.

Yeah, I heard about that change. Didn't they change it back in one of the later releases?

Still a stupid change to make though. I can't imagine anyone hearing Vader say "bring my shuttle", and wonder why he needs it. It's blatantly obvious at that moment. I love the way he delivers that line as well, he sounds really fucked off.
 
Morn said:
That one is a deleted scene on the Blu-Ray set thanks to Liam Neeson refusing to record the lines.
Honestly, good for him.

We all know that scene should have been in the film and its lack of inclusion in the DVD as a deleted scene was also baffling, but if the reason was simply because Neeson didn't want to then I have nothing but respect for the man.
 
MattKeil said:
And yet the entire Sifo Dyas/Dooku/Clone order placing/someone deleted Kamino from the archive thing went completely unanswered in the films. Likewise the "how the Jedi learned to become Force ghosts" thing. If he's so worried about people understanding the basic plot, it's weird how he hasn't managed to fix the basic plot in so many places and instead adds in this pointless crap to perfectly functional scenes.

Sifo Dyas was explained in the books I think. I got curious and looked it up one day.

That said, of course the EU writers felt they needed to create ANOTHER character when I thought it was perfectly obvious from the film that "Sifo Dyas" was in fact Darth Sidious.

Syfo Dyas. Sifodious. Sidious.
 
Whats really sad about Lucas is that the man has the wealth and clout to get ANY movie made, but he is so creatively bankrupt that he can't. So he just tinkers endlessly at worsening Star Wars.
 
Ithil said:
He knows how much everyone hated Vader's NOOOOO from EIII. Hell, he knew how much everyone hated Jar Jar, and toned him down in the next two films accordingly, to the point that he more or less has no lines in EIII. He knows the NOOOOOO is hated and laughed at by pretty much everyone, even people who liked the prequels.

So why go out of your way to piss people off?

Because he is just trolling at this point. It's almost a parody.
 
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