Support NeoGAF

[Zabka]

complaining about any changes is rather pointless. like i said, those who whine about the edits should either accept it or continue living life as a bitter, angst-ridden child who feels entitled.

YOU ARE A BIG MAN

and we are so small

 

[DrForester]

Lucasfilm Limited is the sole production company that made the films. George Lucas is the chairman, CEO and founder of the production company. Copyright law dictates he and Lucasfilm Limited can do they want with their intellectual properties. George Lucas is executive producer of the Star Wars film franchise so he was responsible for the overall production as well as all legal and business issues. George Lucas can do whatever he wants with the films. accept it or continue living in denial, angst and childish bitterness.

Once again, it's not so much the changes as it's him trying to not even acknowledge the original cuts.

 

[Anth0ny]

complaining about any changes is rather pointless. like i said, those who whine about the edits should either accept it or continue living life as a bitter, angst-ridden child who feels entitled.

Complaining got us a release in 2006. A shitty release, but a release nonetheless.

So I'll keep complaining until we get a good release.

 

[emacs]

Once again, it's not so much the changes as it's him trying to not even acknowledge the original cuts.

... and his not wanting to acknowledge the original cuts does nothing adverse to humanity. those who reject what Lucas has done with his intellectual property can perform a singular action with guaranteed results: don't watch the recent editions of the Star Wars films.

 

[emacs]

Complaining got us a release in 2006. A shitty release, but a release nonetheless.

So I'll keep complaining until we get a good release.

the choice is yours (that i acknowledge and respect) but i think it's a misguided and poor choice.

 

[DrForester]

... and his not wanting to acknowledge the original cuts does nothing adverse to humanity. those who reject what Lucas has done with his intellectual property can perform a singular action with guaranteed results: don't watch the recent editions of the Star Wars films.

Consumers have every right to petition for the product they want to buy. I'm not arguing that Lucas has every right to change whatever he wants, but consumers have the same right to point out how stupid those changes are and request the originals.

 

[mrkgoo]

... and his not wanting to acknowledge the original cuts does nothing adverse to humanity. those who reject what Lucas has done with his intellectual property can perform a singular action with guaranteed results: don't watch the recent editions of the Star Wars films.

I dunno.

Star Wars is part of history. An entire sub culture for a generation who grew up with Star Wars, many who admit that it defined their youth and hugely influenced their development.

Denying the original cuts is kind of denying this part of history.

Ok, maybe I'm being a bit melodramatic, but Star Wars wasn't just some movie from the 70s/80s. I have no real issue with chopping and changing, just give the originals their just desserts too!

 

[Anth0ny]

... and his not wanting to acknowledge the original cuts does nothing adverse to humanity.

I think George Lucas would disagree!

My name is George Lucas. I am a writer, director, and producer of motion pictures and Chairman of the Board of Lucasfilm Ltd., a multi-faceted entertainment corporation.

I am not here today as a writer-director, or as a producer, or as the chairman of a corporation. I've come as a citizen of what I believe to be a great society that is in need of a moral anchor to help define and protect its intellectual and cultural heritage. It is not being protected.

The destruction of our film heritage, which is the focus of concern today, is only the tip of the iceberg. American law does not protect our painters, sculptors, recording artists, authors, or filmmakers from having their lifework distorted, and their reputation ruined. If something is not done now to clearly state the moral rights of artists, current and future technologies will alter, mutilate, and destroy for future generations the subtle human truths and highest human feeling that talented individuals within our society have created.

 

[emacs]

I think George Lucas would disagree!

it seems you are not aware of the context of that speech.

Lucas is opposed to people modifying films in which they don't have the intellectual property rights. Lucas, under copyright law, has every legal right to do what he wants with the Star Wars film franchise.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I just realized that there is no one in the SW movie that is a bigger boss than R2D2.

He is never scared of shit.

Darth Vader invading the ship? Finish the mission.

Land on Tattoine and C3PO is tripping? Finish the mission.

Luke bought me and tried to domesticate me? Finish the mission.

Mofos are losing their minds while I'm trying to get them out of the compactor, all while 3PO is nagging the shit outta me? Finish the mission

We gotta blow up the Death Star? Aight Luke, let's roll the fuck out. Finish the mission.

And that's just the list of the work he put in in ANH.

 

[KittenMaster]

emacs, I think you're failing to consider that some of us actually enjoy discussing why Lucas is a recent failure.

 

[emacs]

Ok, maybe I'm being a bit melodramatic ...

although i understand that people can be attached to films and books they hold very dear, it's important to acknowledge and respect that people who have intellectual property rights to their own creations can do whatever the wish.

 

[apana]

OK this is beyond ridiculous, no one is denying that Lucas has the rights do what he wants to his films. It's because he is in charge that we are complainig about him and asking him to not do stupid stuff.

 

[DrForester]

although i understand that people can be attached to films and books they hold very dear, it's important to acknowledge and respect that people who have intellectual property rights to their own creations can do whatever the wish.

it's still hypocritical for him to make the changes at the expense of ignoring the originals. I'll once again point to the Original Series Star Trek Blu-Ray as an example of having the best of both worlds on this.

 

[emacs]

emacs, I think you're failing to consider that some of us actually enjoy discussing why Lucas is a recent failure.

in truth, i did not consider that. for the other folks, however, i figured i introduce a different perspective on the whole matter.

 

[Big One]

it seems you are not aware of the context of that speech.

Lucas is opposed to people modifying films in which they don't have the intellectual property rights. Lucas, under copyright law, has every legal right to do what he wants with the Star Wars film franchise.

The first problem here is that you assume we think Lucas has no right to alter the films. Of course he does, they're his property. That's an established fact and right by every means possible.

The second problem here is that you're implying that Lucas is referring to people who don't have the IP rights to a movie altering other movies. He's not referring to those, he's referring to any movie being altered because it's a part of history. No where in that quote implies otherwise.

The third problem is that you're perfectly fine with the fact that these changes look like putrid shit compared to the older effects which look fantastic.

 

[Zabka]

in truth, i did not consider that. for the other folks, however, i figured i introduce a different perspective on the whole matter.

You really think you've introduced anything worthwhile that hasn't been said dozens of times already?

 

[Tobor]

it seems you are not aware of the context of that speech.

Lucas is opposed to people modifying films in which they don't have the intellectual property rights. Lucas, under copyright law, has every legal right to do what he wants with the Star Wars film franchise.

It seems you are not aware of the content of the speech.

These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tommorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with “fresher faces,” or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor’s lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new “original” negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires. The copyright holders, so far, have not been completely diligent in preserving the original negatives of films they control. In order to reconstruct old negatives, many archivists have had to go to Eastern bloc countries where American films have been better preserved.

He's describing himself exactly. He's the copyright holder of the moment, and he is not being diligent in preserving the the original negatives of the films he controls.

 

[emacs]

it's still hypocritical for him to make the changes at the expense of ignoring the originals.

i disagree.

there's no hypocrisy because he has full legal copyright to the Star Wars film franchise. had he taken, for example, a Star Trek film and made edits without complete and transparent consent with the legal owners of that franchise then you can call Lucas out on his hypocrisy.

 

[CrankyKong]

I'm not complaining about the edits because I was never a big fan of Star Wars anyway.
I do enjoy making fun of the edits though.

 

[Misanthropy]

Some of you don't understand. It's like some talentless asshole accidentally creates the greatest work of literature ever, realizes it, and then spends the rest of his life trying to "fix" it when all they are doing is destroying and tarnishing the original.

 

[emacs]

It seems you are not aware of the content of the speech.

no.

Lucas was opposed to edits once the original holders of copyrights had no legal right or were not active to protecting those rights.

 

[emacs]

You really think you've introduced anything worthwhile that hasn't been said dozens of times already?

yes. just like you assuming you've introduced anything worthwhile.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

yes.

But all you're saying is "he's within his legal right" which, well, yeah. Of course he is. That's obvious. Nobody has ever in any capacity said otherwise.

 

[MattKeil]

in truth, i did not consider that. for the other folks, however, i figured i introduce a different perspective on the whole matter.

None of what you're saying is anything new or different. Nobody is saying Lucas doesn't have the right to change his own films, they're saying the changes he is making to them are terrible. There's nothing childish about criticizing a work of art, even if it's just pop entertainment like Star Wars.

 

[Prologue]

I barely remember the older films but damm look at that amazon score >.>. Are the changes really that bad?

 

[KittenMaster]

I barely remember the older films but damm look at that amazon score >.>. Are the changes really that bad?

What is the score? I am a hater myself but it's highly likely that people are down rating it by voting the lowest score.

 

[Prologue]

What is the score? I am a hater myself but it's highly likely that people are down rating it by voting the lowest score.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003ZSJ212/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Its not even out yet lol. 700 reviews.

 

[FLEABttn]

I ordered the laserdisc versions. Cancelled my bluray pre-order.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Late to the thread, but he seriously added Vader saying “No” in ROTJ? My new mission in life is to secure the VHS edition of the trilogy gathering dust at my folks' place and seal it away in a climate controlled safety deposit box somewhere. The worst part of the special edition cuts of the OT is that the CG doesn't even look good. It's like a notch above SyFy original movies cg.

 

[Sanjuro]

Breaking News: George Lucas frequented prostitutes.

 

[radioheadrule83]

dvdactive has updated with the bluray changes (well for ANH)
http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/a...-part-one.html

Great article. Covers the good and the bad of the changes, most of which were introduced by the Special Editions... I'm glad to see that they fixed the audio mix in the final battle of ANH.

I think those amazon reviews are fucking sad -- I honestly don't know why Amazon allow customer reviews before a products release, they should wipe them all on release day.

I'm sick of all the pre-emptive bitching, I had to stop following G Whitta and a couple of other people on Google+ because of him going on about it...

 

[Jarmel]

Anakin is evil way before he kills Windu. As for the alignment shift, it's just a choice.

Indeed, it's a gradual shift and which point you acknowledge the change.

However Anakin killing the younglings a scene later was way over the top and way too dramatic of a change.

Breaking News: George Lucas frequented prostitutes.

Breaking News: George Lucas is a prostitute.

 

[jaxword]

Indeed, it's a gradual shift and which point you acknowledge the change.

However Anakin killing the younglings a scene later was way over the top and way too dramatic of a change.

Lucas just recently divorced.

It was his way of projecting his bitterness and rage out of being betrayed by someone he loved and how foolish he felt for, well, being blind to reality out of love.

 

[Discotheque]

Breaking News: George Lucas frequented prostitutes.

lol...what a shitty therapist. I'm surprised they didn't show Larry drop his ass at the end of the episode but I'm assuming he did.

 

[jaxword]

You guys DO realize when Lucas dies, there will be even MORE changes done so facilitate his kids making 7, 8, 9.

 

[mrklaw]

Great article. Covers the good and the bad of the changes, most of which were introduced by the Special Editions... I'm glad to see that they fixed the audio mix in the final battle of ANH.

I think those amazon reviews are fucking sad -- I honestly don't know why Amazon allow customer reviews before a products release, they should wipe them all on release day.

I'm sick of all the pre-emptive bitching, I had to stop following G Whitta and a couple of other people on Google+ because of him going on about it...

sounds alright actually. IV and V probably get away with the changes.

Actually, thinking about it, I probably woudn't need very many changes to get a version I'm happy with, and I'd guess that most of it would be trivial to do if I ripped the blurays.

ANH
- remove entire scene with Jabba (would that mess up anything?)
- remove most of the Mos Eisley entrance (stupid Jawa falling off dinosaur thing).

ESB - dont' know whats been changed but I watched the DVD recently and nothing was that jarring.

ROTJ
- remove stupid dance scene in Jabbas palace. Don't think it'd affect much in the flow of things
- remove 'nooo' - should be doable by replacing the audio somehow with the DVD soundtrack.
- do something with Anakin's ghost. This is possibly the most tricky one, not sure how I'd do it.
- possibly shorten the ending with all the flypasts of other worlds
(I don't mind the new soundtrack at the end of ROTJ)

 

[Cheerilee]

no.

Lucas was opposed to edits once the original holders of copyrights had no legal right or were not active to protecting those rights.

Did you even bother to read what Lucas said?

"My name is George Lucas. I am a writer, director, and producer of motion pictures and Chairman of the Board of Lucasfilm Ltd., a multi-faceted entertainment corporation.

I am not here today as a writer-director, or as a producer, or as the chairman of a corporation. I've come as a citizen of what I believe to be a great society that is in need of a moral anchor to help define and protect its intellectual and cultural heritage. It is not being protected.

The destruction of our film heritage, which is the focus of concern today, is only the tip of the iceberg. American law does not protect our painters, sculptors, recording artists, authors, or filmmakers from having their lifework distorted, and their reputation ruined. If something is not done now to clearly state the moral rights of artists, current and future technologies will alter, mutilate, and destroy for future generations the subtle human truths and highest human feeling that talented individuals within our society have created.

A copyright is held in trust by its owner until it ultimately reverts to public domain. American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history.

People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society. The preservation of our cultural heritage may not seem to be as politically sensitive an issue as "when life begins" or "when it should be appropriately terminated," but it is important because it goes to the heart of what sets mankind apart. Creative expression is at the core of our humanness. Art is a distinctly human endeavor. We must have respect for it if we are to have any respect for the human race.

These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tommorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with "fresher faces," or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor's lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new "original" negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires. The copyright holders, so far, have not been completely diligent in preserving the original negatives of films they control. In order to reconstruct old negatives, many archivists have had to go to Eastern bloc countries where American films have been better preserved.

In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be "replaced" by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.

There is nothing to stop American films, records, books, and paintings from being sold to a foreign entity or egotistical gangsters and having them change our cultural heritage to suit their personal taste.

I accuse the companies and groups, who say that American law is sufficient, of misleading the Congress and the People for their own economic self-interest.

I accuse the corporations, who oppose the moral rights of the artist, of being dishonest and insensitive to American cultural heritage and of being interested only in their quarterly bottom line, and not in the long-term interest of the Nation.

The public's interest is ultimately dominant over all other interests. And the proof of that is that even a copyright law only permits the creators and their estate a limited amount of time to enjoy the economic fruits of that work.

There are those who say American law is sufficient. That's an outrage! It's not sufficient! If it were sufficient, why would I be here? Why would John Houston have been so studiously ignored when he protested the colorization of "The Maltese Falcon?" Why are films cut up and butchered?

Attention should be paid to this question of our soul, and not simply to accounting procedures. Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself.

I hope you have the courage to lead America in acknowledging the importance of American art to the human race, and accord the proper protection for the creators of that art--as it is accorded them in much of the rest of the world communities."

Lucas used "foreign owners" and "gangsters" as some sort of boogiemen. If Da Vinci was alive today and foolishly sold the Mona Lisa to some rich freak who took a dump on it just to get a rise out of people, there would be legally nothing anybody could do to stop this man, and there really should be. That doesn't mean that Lucas supported the idea of Da Vinci taking a shit on the Mona Lisa. It means that the idea of Da Vinci doing that is generally unthinkable, so he needed a substitute to get his point across.

Lucas has become the unthinkable boogieman. He, more than anyone, currently fits the description of the monster he himself described. The distinction you latched onto (being an "original" copyright holder) is something he even dismissed in this text.

 

[Furret]

yes. just like you assuming you've introduced anything worthwhile.

You have not introduced anything new or worthwhile into this thread. You have not even introduced capital letters into your sentences.

Nobody is arguing, or cares, about Lucas' legal right to do what he is doing. They are arguing that the changes are artistically flawed and that his refusal to just release the original versions and let fans alone in piece is petty and antagonistic.

 

[Dead Man]

Lucasfilm Limited is the sole production company that made the films. George Lucas is the chairman, CEO and founder of the production company. Copyright law dictates he and Lucasfilm Limited can do they want with their intellectual properties. George Lucas is executive producer of the Star Wars film franchise so he was responsible for the overall production as well as all legal and business issues. George Lucas can do whatever he wants with the films. accept it or continue living in denial, angst and childish bitterness.

And yet the National Film Registry (United States National Film Preservation Board's selection of films for preservation in the Library of Congress) selected ANH in 1989 to be preserved. Prior to any changes. Fucking Lucas can't even give them an original copy now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Film_Registry

 

[neorej]

You guys DO realize when Lucas dies, there will be even MORE changes done so facilitate his kids making 7, 8, 9.

James Earl Jones will get replaced by Shia Lebouef. Believe it.

 

[BattleMonkey]

You guys DO realize when Lucas dies, there will be even MORE changes done so facilitate his kids making 7, 8, 9.

The kids will care more about money since Lucas is leaving most of this fortune to charity when he dies. They will probably give the fans what they want, heck they will probably make tons of versions and milk the property more than LFL has been doing. I don't know the truth of it, but supposedly Lucas has also made it that no one can make more SW movies after he is gone.... but it ain't going to stop ppl from milking the franchise even more.

 

[Maklershed]

You guys DO realize when Lucas dies, there will be even MORE changes done so facilitate his kids making 7, 8, 9.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for an extended pod racing sequence.

 

[Gui_PT]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for an extended pod racing sequence.

I want longer political debates

 

[DonMigs85]

What if Lucas returns as a Force Ghost, with an even more enlarged neck pouch?

 

[mre]

James Earl Jones will get replaced by Shia Lebouef. Believe it.

Well, Shia has the "no" parts down. It's just instead of one steady "Nooooooooooo!" they'll dub in Shia's trademarked "no no no no no no!"

 

[mrkgoo]

Did you even bother to read what Lucas said?


Lucas used "foreign owners" and "gangsters" as some sort of boogiemen. If Da Vinci was alive today and foolishly sold the Mona Lisa to some rich freak who took a dump on it just to get a rise out of people, there would be legally nothing anybody could do to stop this man, and there really should be. That doesn't mean that Lucas supported the idea of Da Vinci taking a shit on the Mona Lisa. It means that the idea of Da Vinci doing that is generally unthinkable, so he needed a substitute to get his point across.

Lucas has become the unthinkable boogieman. He, more than anyone, currently fits the description of the monster he himself described. The distinction you latched onto (being an "original" copyright holder) is something he even dismissed in this text.

Maybe he's a genius. He couldn't get the point across in letter, so he's being ironic.

Genius, I tells ya.

 

[VeryGooster]

Old, but this is an edit I wouldn't mind seeing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IPAGXyFvrs

 

[Htown]

- remove entire scene with Jabba (would that mess up anything?)

Not really. It would improve the movie, and as it is right now the scene actually undermines the threat and character of Jabba the Hutt. the only thing of any (questionable) worth in that scene is the Boba Fett tease, which isn't really necessary.

Spoiler

Lucas should remove the Jabba scene, and if he REALLY REALLY wants the Boba Fett tease, there are other ways to do that.

- remove most of the Mos Eisley entrance (stupid Jawa falling off dinosaur thing).

The Mos Eisley entrance isn't a huge deal, and I'd actually keep all of it except for that Jawa moment (which is actually fixed by just cutting before the Jawa actually falls off) and maybe the pointless robot smash at the beginning.

ESB - dont' know whats been changed but I watched the DVD recently and nothing was that jarring.

ESB is pretty much fine. I don't actually like that Lucas replaced Boba Fett's original voice with Temura Morrison's, but it sort of has to be that way thanks to the Fett story in the prequels (unfortunately).

ROTJ
- remove stupid dance scene in Jabbas palace. Don't think it'd affect much in the flow of things

Here's the original dance scene.
I think having it in the movie was always kind of lame, but I like the old music better. The main problem is not that they made a new song, but that the CGI singers are maybe the most cartoony thing in the Star Wars movies including the prequels. The singers are mugging in front of the camera in tight shots to look like they're singing to the audience instead of the characters in the palace, and there's a shot of the male singer running up close to the camera for no discernable reason besides showing the people at home how awesomely CG'd the back of his throat is as he hits a note. It's all the way stupid.

Unfortunately, I do think it's important to have that moment at the end where the musical fun suddenly turns dangerous because Jabba wants to get creepy with the Twi'Lek dancer.

Maybe edit the song so the visuals cut to something else during the parts where the CGI characters get stupid. There's a lot of space after the actual song ends where there's musical padding, because Lucas wanted to put extra Boba Fett footage in there, and some random crowd shots. Use some of that business during the actual song to avoid the dumbest cartoony parts, and you get rid of the main stupidity during that section and tighten up the whole scene.

- remove 'nooo' - should be doable by replacing the audio somehow with the DVD soundtrack.

Yep.

- do something with Anakin's ghost. This is possibly the most tricky one, not sure how I'd do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKISJoNLJFE

- possibly shorten the ending with all the flypasts of other worlds
(I don't mind the new soundtrack at the end of ROTJ)

There are things that don't make sense about the celebrations everywhere, but I think it's okay to leave them in.

 

[mrklaw]

cool. blurays are likely to be AVCHD right, so any old editor to play with them? I'm not planning to burn them back to bluray, just play back from plex or similar. lossless audio might be a headache but we'll see.