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George Lucas Making Changes to Star Wars Saga... Again

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Shouldn't the creator of Star Wars have the ability to change the canon of Star Wars?

-wary look-

Even so, I understand the criticism. I did appreciate Vader's "silent" struggle and it's very sad to see that go, but i'm pretty sure George Lucas has a method to his madness (I hope).
 
Nora Kisaragi said:
Shouldn't the creator of Star Wars have the ability to change the canon of Star Wars?

-wary look-

Even so, I understand the criticism. I did appreciate Vader's "silent" struggle and it's very sad to see that go, but i'm pretty sure George Lucas has a method to his madness (I hope).


Been said several times in the thread, it's far less about the edits, as it is that the edits are now the only cut available. If these Blu-Rays has the Theatrical cut and the new Lucas Special Special edition, people wouldn't care.
 
Salmonax said:
In Luke's training it's still green except for the one shot they've been publicizing.

http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-one.html


And Vader's saber is still pink in Empire.

http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-two.html


In other words, they really didn't do much to fix the lightsabers in this release.
It's surprising where Lucas decides things need tweaking whereas the damn lightsaber inconsistencies still continue to this day. So disappointing.

Also, I got a chuckle out of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCZrdNBBxMA&feature=channel_video_title
 
DrForester said:
Been said several times in the thread, it's far less about the edits, as it is that the edits are now the only cut available. If these Blu-Rays has the Theatrical cut and the new Lucas Special Special edition, people wouldn't care.

I thought that was Lucas' intention though. I recall a Lucas interview way back when when he said something like a "project is never finished even after you release it", and something along the lines of "people will eventually forget the first version".

If that's his goal, I still don't see why he should be forced to include the theatrical release, if he doesn't agree with the content of that release being a part of his product for whatever reason.

I understand the criticism, believe me I do, but I don't think he should be forced to include the release of which he might not agree. If he agreed with it, he would have never made the change, right?
 
jett said:
Thanks for posting those links, probably the most comprehensive comparisons I've seen of all the major versions of the OT. It makes me want to watch the original versions, which I haven't seen since I watched the movies for the first time on TV during the 80s. :P It's such a shame that Lucas has to be a complete douchebag and deny them to us. Ridley Scott loathes the theatrical cut of BR and still he gave it to us in glorious HD.
He also gave us the 1992 "director's cut" (which he had nothing to do with despite the name) in HD too. As well as the international theatrical cut which he probably dislikes too. All on the same disc. And on a separate disc there was a transfer of the workprint which very few people in the world had even seen prior to the release of it on disc..

Ridley Scott is cool in my book.
 
Nora Kisaragi said:
I thought that was Lucas' intention though. I recall a Lucas interview way back when when he said something like a "project is never finished even after you release it", and something along the lines of "people will eventually forget the first version".

If that's his goal, I still don't see why he should be forced to include the theatrical release, if he doesn't agree with the content of that release being a part of his product for whatever reason.

I understand the criticism, believe me I do, but I don't think he should be forced to include the release of which he might not agree. If he agreed with it, he would have never made the change, right?

It's really a lot of confusion to star wars fans like myself. No fan of the original trilogy sat around watching RoTJ and thought to themselves , 'man, what this scene really needs is Vader shouting Noooooooooo like he did in RoTS, or 'this scene just isn't complete without half a rock trying to conceal a hidden R2D2'. No fan has sat around and said this. What they have said, is...'man they really need to fix those light saber colors. Luke's saber keeps going from green to blue and back again'.

Some changes are just completely baffling while stuff that needs to be fixed is left undone.
 
bill0527 said:
It's really a lot of confusion to star wars fans like myself. No fan of the original trilogy sat around watching RoTJ and thought to themselves , 'man, what this scene really needs is Vader shouting Noooooooooo like he did in RoTS, or 'this scene just isn't complete without half a rock trying to conceal a hidden R2D2'. No fan has sat around and said this. What they have said, is...'man they really need to fix those light saber colors. Luke's saber keeps going from green to blue and back again'.

Some changes are just completely baffling while stuff that needs to be fixed is left undone.
Pretty much.
 
Pie Lord said:
Did Han's confrontation with Greedo really make that much of an impression on all of you when you first saw it? It always seemed rather inconsequential to me.
When I did editing, I used my background in music to set the speed in my head (like a metronome) for the amount of time a shot was held. If you watch that scene with Han and Greedo, there is a pace to it...

Beat 1: Han fires
Beat 2: Greedo's head hits the table
Beat 3: Unknown alien voice yells

...and it is dead on. You can quite literally set a metronome to it and it would sync. This is on purpose, of course but lost on most until it's pointed out.

In fact the whole scene is very well edited...Even the dialogue leading up to the laser blast has a flowing nature to it as Greedo ends his threat with the voiced sounds of "ta oska".

The changes alter the pace of the edited sequence and (at least for me) are VERY annoying and disjointed. Again, none of this would matter if that dick would simply give us both versions.
 
bill0527 said:
Some changes are just completely baffling while stuff that needs to be fixed is left undone.
This is exactly what I don't understand too. Who thought R2 needed more rocks to hide behind? Yet Vader continues to rock a pink lightsaber while Luke's fluctuates from green to blue. Bizarre...
 
Nora Kisaragi said:
I thought that was Lucas' intention though. I recall a Lucas interview way back when when he said something like a "project is never finished even after you release it", and something along the lines of "people will eventually forget the first version".

If that's his goal, I still don't see why he should be forced to include the theatrical release, if he doesn't agree with the content of that release being a part of his product for whatever reason.

I understand the criticism, believe me I do, but I don't think he should be forced to include the release of which he might not agree. If he agreed with it, he would have never made the change, right?


1988 TIME MACHINE!

My name is George Lucas. I am a writer, director, and producer of motion pictures and Chairman of the Board of Lucasfilm Ltd., a multi-faceted entertainment corporation.

I am not here today as a writer-director, or as a producer, or as the chairman of a corporation. I’ve come as a citizen of what I believe to be a great society that is in need of a moral anchor to help define and protect its intellectual and cultural heritage. It is not being protected.

The destruction of our film heritage, which is the focus of concern today, is only the tip of the iceberg. American law does not protect our painters, sculptors, recording artists, authors, or filmmakers from having their lifework distorted, and their reputation ruined. If something is not done now to clearly state the moral rights of artists, current and future technologies will alter, mutilate, and destroy for future generations the subtle human truths and highest human feeling that talented individuals within our society have created.

A copyright is held in trust by its owner until it ultimately reverts to public domain. American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history.

People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society. The preservation of our cultural heritage may not seem to be as politically sensitive an issue as “when life begins” or “when it should be appropriately terminated,” but it is important because it goes to the heart of what sets mankind apart. Creative expression is at the core of our humanness. Art is a distinctly human endeavor. We must have respect for it if we are to have any respect for the human race.

These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tomorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with “fresher faces,” or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor’s lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new “original” negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires. The copyright holders, so far, have not been completely diligent in preserving the original negatives of films they control. In order to reconstruct old negatives, many archivists have had to go to Eastern bloc countries where American films have been better preserved.

In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.

There is nothing to stop American films, records, books, and paintings from being sold to a foreign entity or egotistical gangsters and having them change our cultural heritage to suit their personal taste.

I accuse the companies and groups, who say that American law is sufficient, of misleading the Congress and the People for their own economic self-interest.

I accuse the corporations, who oppose the moral rights of the artist, of being dishonest and insensitive to American cultural heritage and of being interested only in their quarterly bottom line, and not in the long-term interest of the Nation.

The public’s interest is ultimately dominant over all other interests. And the proof of that is that even a copyright law only permits the creators and their estate a limited amount of time to enjoy the economic fruits of that work.

There are those who say American law is sufficient. That’s an outrage! It’s not sufficient! If it were sufficient, why would I be here? Why would John Houston have been so studiously ignored when he protested the colorization of “The Maltese Falcon?” Why are films cut up and butchered?

Attention should be paid to this question of our soul, and not simply to accounting procedures. Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself.

I hope you have the courage to lead America in acknowledging the importance of American art to the human race, and accord the proper protection for the creators of that art–as it is accorded them in much of the rest of the world communities."
 
purple cobra said:
This is exactly what I don't understand too. Who thought R2 needed more rocks to hide behind? Yet Vader continues to rock a pink lightsaber while Luke's fluctuates from green to blue. Bizarre...
Bet the explanation for that is that these are old lightsabers and the crystals aren't what they used to be so they discolor from time to time
 
Nora Kisaragi said:
I thought that was Lucas' intention though. I recall a Lucas interview way back when when he said something like a "project is never finished even after you release it", and something along the lines of "people will eventually forget the first version".

If that's his goal, I still don't see why he should be forced to include the theatrical release, if he doesn't agree with the content of that release being a part of his product for whatever reason.
If maintaining consistency is so important to Lucas, then the best solution for him would be to straight up remake episodes 4-6 in the style of episodes 1-3.

They'd be hilariously terrible, but at least we'd be spared an unending series of kludgy CG mutilations of the originals that not only look ridiculous, but also end up causing more continuity issues than they solve.
 
Medalion said:
Bet the explanation for that is that these are old lightsabers and the crystals aren't what they used to be so they discolor from time to time
That would be hilarious. :lol
 
Gee... I wonder how Star Wars fans earned the reputation of nerds

*looks at link cataloguing every single change no matter how small frame by frame*
oh...
 
Nora Kisaragi said:
Shouldn't the creator of Star Wars have the ability to change the canon of Star Wars?

-wary look-

Even so, I understand the criticism. I did appreciate Vader's "silent" struggle and it's very sad to see that go, but i'm pretty sure George Lucas has a method to his madness (I hope).

The thing is, the original Star Wars is #2 in all-time ticket sales. When you consider the number of times Gone With the Wind was re-released, Star Wars is likely the most popular movie ever by tickets sold and arguably the most culturally influential film in American history. Star Wars is by far the most important film franchise ever. It's not just Lucas' property, but the work of dozens of talented people and a landmark of American pop culture.
 
The good parts of the prequel trilogy = palpatine's rise to power + corruption of anakin and Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan.

pretty muc heverything else = "Okay, I can see what his idea here is, but the exxecution just sucks"
 
Medalion said:
Gee... I wonder how Star Wars fans earned the reputation of nerds

*looks at link cataloguing every single change no matter how small frame by frame*
oh...
Hey if Lucas stopped fucking it all up, we wouldn't have to make lists!

shantyman said:
How many freaking times are people going to post that Lucas thing from 1988?
I'd never seen it before, or if I did it was a long time ago. Chillax, my brother.
 
Anth0ny said:
ahahaahahawhahahahawawawhaha

that bluray.com review

ahahahwhahahahawhawhawh

Just read this. I'm not crazy right? The reviewer ACTUALLY compared George Lucas, a FILMMAKER to Kim Jong Il, a dictatorial despot responsible for putting hundreds of thousands of his own people in concentration camps, or a leader like Gaddafi that readily supported terrorism? Really? I get his hyperbolic point of "oh they're narcissistic with too much power and yes-men surrounding them" but really? Was Hitler too obvious?

Good Lord... we get it: the whole incessant comments about raped childhood, broken memories, the altruistic "for the preservation of film history" schtick, etc. etc. Fine,countless people don't like the changes. But hey, he's not gonna budge on the issue so let's wait till he dies. Can we please move on till then?
 
shantyman said:
How many freaking times are people going to post that Lucas thing from 1988?

Every time someone says "Lucas owns the films, and filmmakers have the right to do whatever they want with their films!"

So... many, many times.
 
djsandman said:
There is a point in Episode II where Anakin says "If you are suffering as much as I am, please tell me." I typically respond by changing the channel or turning off the dvd.

I also recall, "I wish I could wish away my feelings... but I can't".
 
Watched Original A New Hope last night with my son. First time he'd ever seen it (he's used to the Special Editions) and it was the first time I'd seen it in like over a decade.... Yeah, I don't think I'll ever go back to the Special Editions and will most certainly never buy those fucking Blu-Rays

And for the record, my 8 year old loved it and didn't even noticed the missing effects.
Watching Empire tonight and Jedi on Friday.
 
Mr. Serious Business said:
The thing is, the original Star Wars is #2 in all-time ticket sales. When you consider the number of times Gone With the Wind was re-released, Star Wars is likely the most popular movie ever by tickets sold and arguably the most culturally influential film in American history. Star Wars is by far the most important film franchise ever. It's not just Lucas' property, but the work of dozens of talented people and a landmark of American pop culture.

Most people probably will say you're crazy, but I tend to agree with you. I really can't think of anything that measures up to the depth and pervasiveness of Star Wars' influence on pop culture (for better or worse).
 
AgentOtaku said:
Watched Original A New Hope last night with my son. First time he'd ever seen it (he's used to the Special Editions) and it was the first time I'd seen it in like over a decade.... Yeah, I don't think I'll ever go back to the Special Editions and will most certainly never buy those fucking Blu-Rays

And for the record, my 8 year old loved it and didn't even noticed the missing effects.
Watching Empire tonight and Jedi on Friday.
You doing the prequels with him? My kids actually like episodes 1 and 2 :shudder: actually it was quite fun to see my son figuring out the clone troopers would become storm troopers, and the clone vehicles would develop into star destroyers and AT-ATs.. And then he started to put two and two together..
 
mrklaw said:
You doing the prequels with him? My kids actually like episodes 1 and 2 :shudder: actually it was quite fun to see my son figuring out the clone troopers would become storm troopers, and the clone vehicles would develop into star destroyers and AT-ATs.. And then he started to put two and two together..

My son is a Star Wars nut. Watches Clone Wars, has seen all the movies numerous times, Star War Pajamas, Legos, the works
Only reason I tolerate the prequels is because he's likes them.
 
Warm Machine said:
It was always meant to go in the movie. They did a really piss poor job in 1997 but a much better job with it in 2004. I do however like the suggestion on that site about him being a hologram instead. My only issue with him being in the film is just that over A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back you are constantly wondering who this bad ass Jabba the Hut is. To show him here takes that away from the arc of the films, but given that he is in Episode 1 it doesn't matter anymore.
If you watch the prequels after the OT like you should, then it's fine that Jabba is in them. The first time you see him is still in ROTJ. I don't mind seeing him in ANH, he's not as big and hideous as he is when we see him in ROTJ

My biggest issue with that scene is just the stupid 'Han stepping on jabbas' tail effect. Making him a hologram would let Han walk normally around him. But I guess he needs to be solid because he is masking original human jabba?

Plus it's just odd that we have a scene just before with greedo, then he bumps into jabba. Why bother with bounty hunters if you're standing next to the falcon anyway? If you want jabba you should pull the greed scene, and vice versa. The two don't work together.
 
AgentOtaku said:
My son is a Star Wars nut. Watches Clone Wars, has seen all the movies numerous times, Star War Pajamas, Legos, the works
Only reason I tolerate the prequels is because he's likes them.
I bought my daughter a Lego star wars advent calendar :p
 
mrklaw said:
If you watch the prequels after the OT like you should, then it's fine that Jabba is in them. The first time you see him is still in ROTJ. I don't mind seeing him in ANH, he's not as big and hideous as he is when we see him in ROTJ

My biggest issue with that scene is just the stupid 'Han stepping on jabbas' tail effect. Making him a hologram would let Han walk normally around him. But I guess he needs to be solid because he is masking original human jabba?

Plus it's just odd that we have a scene just before with greedo, then he bumps into jabba. Why bother with bounty hunters if you're standing next to the falcon anyway? If you want jabba you should pull the greed scene, and vice versa. The two don't work together.

Agreed, considering that the Greedo convo relates the same information as the Jabba encounter, the dialogue is really redundant.
 
Anyone know what the Original Trilogy and Prequel Trilogy boxes/cases look like? I don't like the look of the Complete Saga personally. I hate non-standard cases.
 
Nevermind, I found it. That's exactly what I want.

It'll cost me $10 bucks more but I'll buy both versions, Prequel and Original separately.

star-w10.jpg


EDIT - Nevermind, same price. $80 or $40 each, score. Damn it, that's just Amazon. $45 each here.
 
You don't get the supplementary discs with the separate trilogies - only the complete set.

I'd like to hear from anyone that has watched the extras (it's out in Europe already). That's something that could tip me over the edge into buying the set
 
All this talk of different edits reminded me of the one version of SW I need to track down again,
The bootleg of Episode 1 from its first public showing, hearing hundreds of nerds screamed out in joy at the title and music cue and then were suddenly silenced by seeing the actual movie.
Forget HD, seeing people realise they wasted 30 years of their time on earth in real time has so many more dimensions.
 
B_Rik_Schitthaus said:
All this talk of different edits reminded me of the one version of SW I need to track down again,
The bootleg of Episode 1 from its first public showing, hearing hundreds of nerds screamed out in joy at the title and music cue and then were suddenly silenced by seeing the actual movie.
Forget HD, seeing people realise they wasted 30 years of their time on earth in real time has so many more dimensions.

Which is why this bit from Triumph is so great. It was great at the time, it's hilarious in retrospective.
 
neorej said:
is so great. It was great at the time, it's hilarious in retrospective.
There does seem to be a pre and post EP1 world.
Thanks to the bootleg I was the first person in my school to see it, so I went around and pretend it was the best thing ever and answering everybody's questions about it, such a fun time.
 
neorej said:
Which is why this bit from Triumph is so great. It was great at the time, it's hilarious in retrospective.
I just watched it. Well said.

I love that its for Attack of the Clones... Those nerds should know better by then. I remember during the hype cycle and release of AOTC... the strange dichotomy of being excited to have watched a shiny, dramatic, modern CG sequel to Star Wars, mixed with the widespread acknowledgement that it was jaw-droppingly crap in so many ways.
 
BocoDragon said:
. I remember during the hype cycle and release of AOTC... the strange dichotomy of being excited to have watched a shiny, dramatic, modern CG sequel to Star Wars, mixed with the widespread acknowledgement that it was jaw-droppingly crap in so many ways.
It was worse for ROTS when people would say it was good because it was 'Dark'.
 
I remember watching Ep 3 with my dad in theaters and during some of the lovey-dovey shit between anakin and padme (which was far, far more bearable than it was in AotC), we both simultaneously turned towards each other and rolled our eyes, like "This can't possibly be what George Lucas thinks is entertaining or passes for romance, right?"
 
B_Rik_Schitthaus said:
It was worse for ROTS when people would say it was good because it was 'Dark'.
Can't agree.... I actually thought ROTS was dramatically improved from the first two. Still flawed as all SW prequels are (acting, weird stupid shit), but it had a story worth telling, unlike the slow nonsense of I and II's overall tale.
 
GaimeGuy said:
I remember watching Ep 3 with my dad in theaters and during some of the lovey-dovey shit between anakin and padme (which was far, far more bearable than it was in AotC), we both simultaneously turned towards each other and rolled our eyes, like "This can't possibly be what George Lucas thinks is entertaining or passes for romance, right?"

'No, its because IM SO IN LOVE WITH YOU!'
'Then love is blind?'
'Well..thats not exactly what I meant.'
*Awkward pause*
 
GaimeGuy said:
I remember watching Ep 3 with my dad in theaters and during some of the lovey-dovey shit between anakin and padme (which was far, far more bearable than it was in AotC), we both simultaneously turned towards each other and rolled our eyes, like "This can't possibly be what George Lucas thinks is entertaining or passes for romance, right?"
You are right. I had been discussing this with friends for years by then. The "sand" line of Episode II is a crazy red flag that George doesn't understand real human relations at all. :P

He may be going for a kind of "classic Hollywood schmaltz romance" style, where people talk in poetic nonsense love statements... but even in that regard, it is far off the mark. This isn't stylized classic film romance... it's awkward and puzzling.
 
Scullibundo said:
'No, its because IM SO IN LOVE WITH YOU!'
'Then love is blind?'
'Well..thats not exactly what I meant.'
*Awkward pause*
that's exactly where it happened.

"No it's because I'm so in love with you!"

good god George .


Fun fact: When Leia says "I love you" to Han as he gets lowered into the carbon chamber, he's supposed to respond "I love you too" according to the script. Harrison Ford didn't think that fit Solo's character so he said "I know" on the set.
 
GaimeGuy said:
Fun fact: When Leia says "I love you" to Han as he gets lowered into the carbon chamber, he's supposed to respond "I love you too" according to the script. Harrison Ford didn't think that fit Solo's character so he said "I know" on the set.

Didn't know that, Ford just moved up a notch on my coolstick.
 
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