Germany: Merkel disgust at New Year gang assaults

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1.21Gigawatts

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Nov 24, 2012
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No disagreements here. That does happen a lot. And I agree with the point.
Still obvious parts of the left have an extremely hard time criticising anything related to immigrants/immigration in fear of seeming bigoted.
Can't talk about sweden, but from a german view that is a complete strawman.
Everyone vehemently condemned what happened in cologne.
But some people were smart enough not to judge a huge diverse group based on the actions of very few, others however used it to push an anti immigrant-, anti muslim - narrative.
Thats not even remotely okay.

The debate about "honor culture" that some women tried to start a while ago was met largely with silence from the swedish feminists for example. The reason for that is pretty obvious.
What did the debate look like?

I think I know what its about. The whole honor thing in some muslim families where girls are basically controlled by their male family members and if they for example have a boyfriend the family doesn't approve of it can end in an honor killing.
Is it about that?

If its that, we have that debate in germany, even though we're not calling honor culture debate. Its more about teaching kids in school the value of the german constitution, that these laws are above other laws, including religious ones or cultural norms they may have learned at home.
Teachers than have the opportunity to call in parents of kids who reject that way of thinking.
I don't think there is much more you can do without significantly interfering with peoples personal freedoms.





You are pretty much asking "why is reporting crime newsworthy". Because it is. Why are wars news worthy, why is a natural disaster, why is corruption. Because it is news.
Random fistfight anywhere is germany worthy of a national news story?
No it is not.

Reporting on it only when it involves refugees is a disgusting double standard.

And the media is not only reporting crime about refugees. They are also reporting a ton of other crime - including violent anti-refugee protests and crime to show there are idiots doing that. Let's not pretend all media now suddenly switched to non-stop refugee crime reporting and nothing else.
Anti-refugee crime is a whole other story than normal everyday crime that just happened to be commited by refugees.
Especially in germany where there is a history of violence against minorities.

And no, media as a whole has thankfully not switched to non-stop refugee crime reporting, only some outlets.
But there is definitely a much higher awareness to it after what happened in cologne.
Curiously foreign outlets are at the forefront. Some of the stories that have been posted here haven't even been picked up by german media when some UK or dutch outlets already reported on it.
Cologne played right into the right wing narrative, but from my perspective the right wing in germany is too weak to actually capitalize on it, whereas in other countries this is huge.


And how is adding thousands of people every day to an overloaded system and refusing to see that doesn't work any less of a misunderstanding from your side?
Why do you think it doesn't work?
Its been a bumpy road so far, but saying that it doesn't work is a little far fetched.
Also keep in mind that germany was absolutely unprepared, all the investments Merkel approved will only start to have an effect over the coming months.
I don't know what you expected when the current situation is "doesn't work" in your book.

Because nobody wants to deal with this mess and come with a clear plan, since everything they do will upset their voter base. The right will scream that we are still letting in too many people.
Been saying that for years. Europe has a creeping right wing problem. It showed a little almost two decades ago when the Euro was implemented. We saw it more during the financial crisis in 2007. And we saw it fully fledged when the greece crisis was the top media story: Nationalism and racism.
As I mentioned before, I think germany is more sensitive to these things and therefore started to push back early and as a result germany doesn't have a right wing party with threatening influence.
But when I look over the france, or austria, or the netherlands, or poland, or hungary...
Thats really, really bad.

The left will scream we are giving into the right and should be ashamed to turn people away. The whole center in the discussion is gone and nobody is willing to group together and take the hurt. I'm not in charge of the EU, so I don't know how to fix that either.
Who on left wants to take in economic refugees?
The lefts position of not giving in to fearmongering and hatred is twisted in all kinds of way...

Is there a war in Turkey going on I don't know about? Since that is where they cross into the Schengen zone. Or maybe in Russia, from where people crossed into Norway?
You don't want to upset Turkey by not taking some of the pressure off of them. Turkey is already chock full of refugees.

Just taking in millions of people is also not an option for any country.
No, but as many as possible is an option.
Do you see anybody giving spain shit for not taking in many?
Everybody understands that some countries can't handle the refugees, but the ones that can have an obligation since they are all part of the EU and supposedly stand up for the european values.
Might as well not share common values when you through them out of the window by the first sign of trouble.


Again and again, I am not advocating for sending people to die. Here we go again:
I know, but I think that "sending people to die" is necessary result of your solutions.

1) Fund refugee centers in the region
2) Take in families and the most vulnerable from there and sent them over in manageable numbers to Europe.
The thing is that this won't be nearly enough to be able to handle the masses. People will quickly notice that this doesn't work and will keep trying to get to europe by boat or whatever.

This will

1) Help the most vulnerable instead of mostly young men able to make a hard journey
2) Keep out people who are from safe countries and after months or years will be sent away, but meanwhile take a lot of space in the system that can be put to better use. These are also the people over represented in crime stats.
3) Keep a good ratio of men/women and doesn't break up families, leading to better dynamics and less trouble
1. Thats nice, but these young men will not stop to try to come here then.
2. The people from safe countries who have no chance to get a safe ticket to europe will just continue to make the dangerous journey.
3. Yeah that would be great in theory.
But in reality this will only work for a few people and the rest will just keep on making the dangerous journey and end up at the italian or any other border and they we have to decide whether we let them in or send them back(sending them back implies sending them die possibly and thats something that isn't compatible with our core values.)

I can blame the ones coming here and committing crimes, have unreasonable demands and don't try to fit into our society. Which is the major problem people are afraid of now and in years to come when we let in large numbers of people.
Asserting blame is always easier than trying to understand.
Goes for both sides btw.
Guardian has a good article on this:
If we want Germans to accept Arabs, Arabs must also learn to accept them
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/16/germans-accept-arabs?CMP=fb_gu


No, you want to censor the media about certain issues because you are afraid it plays into the hands of political parties you don't agree with and call it fair and just reporting. That is not how it works.
How is not doing one sided, biased reporting censorship?
I have absolutely no problem with a national news story about some refugee beating up someone, when the 1000 other cases of someone(german) beating someone else up on that day also make it into national news.
But that of course would be ridiculous.

I really don't you here. When american media would put so much more focus and attention on black crime than on white crime, everyone would agree that this is wrong and onesided and biased.
But when its in europe and about refugees its suddenly fair game to do that?

Everyday crime is not worthy of national news, no matter who commited it(unless maybe some celebrities, but thats a case for the tabloids then).

A group of refugees harrassing and raping hundreds of women, thats worthy of national news.
A group of neonazis buring down a refugee center, thats worthy of national news.

A fistfight, no matter who is involved - not worthy of national news.
Hatecrime, whether it is by germans or refugees(I'd consider that attack on the transsexuals in Dortmund a hatecrime*) - worthy of national news.
*But we don't even know if the attackers were refugees.

Yes, I wonder why there is aggression from people who come to another country that takes them in, provides safety, housing, food and even healthcare and education for free.
Are you kidding me? You read what I just wrote and just shrugged it off as if these weren't real issue? You have to be fucking cold.
I mean, some of these people went through hell, are heavily traumatized and have an uncertain future in a country where they know nobody and nobody wants them. But hey, at least they get to sleep in a stinky hall with 500 other guys FOR FREE, so they must be stoked.
 

YourMaster

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Gemüsepizza;192568572 said:
Treating people with dignity isn't a fucking reward. It is a human right.
So you're saying it is a good idea for countries to raise barbed wire fences and at the same time promise a better live for those that climb over it?
Or how about countries that say that if you cross the open sea in a tiny unsafe boat (don't forget to bring the kids) and reach their shores alive you'll be getting a chance to raise their kids in safety?

Either block people from coming here, or accept (some of) them in and provide for them adequately. Doing both halfheartedly is simply cruel and pointless.
 

Kinyou

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Sep 12, 2009
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So the WDR journalist who said they had to report positive about the refugees is backtracking now and says she was just talking nonsense because she was nervous during the live interview

http://www.focus.de/kultur/medien/uebergrueffe-in-koeln-wdr-journalistin-klagt-an-wir-sind-angewiesen-pro-regierung-zu-berichten_id_5218836.html (sorry only saw a German source)

Sort of a strange excuse because I don't really know why you'd say that even when nervous. Then again, one would hope a proper whistleblower would show up if this kind of stuff actually happened.
 

SolidusDave

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The 13 yo girl was a lie. Most likely instigated by Putin's BS machine in Germany:
http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/polizei/berlin-marzahn-was-wir-ueber-die-angebliche-vergewaltigung-einer-13-jaehrigen-wissen,10809296,33551098.html (German)

Long post by a journalist on how the Russian media is exploiting this:
https://www.facebook.com/reitschuster/posts/1256542401027612 (German)
I didn't know about this case but that article doesn't state that the whole thing was a lie at all.

It's a real 13 yo German girl who went missing. When she returned she said she was kidnapped and raped by multiple Arabs. Now she apparently changed this to going with them willingly (if sex happened that would still be a crime though). The police however later commented that currently no kidnapping or rape happened, so yeah, seems she made stuff up but that's not the same as being orchestrated by some political organization..
 

DrM

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We will probably have very challenging spring/summer on main European migrant trail. Add unstable political situation in several countries on the route (Slovenia, Serbia) and different views on the situation from EU members.
 
And there it is. Deal with it. Sexual assault and rape? Deal with it. Stonings? Deal with it. Backwards values from backwards cultures? Deal with it. Deal with all the problems being caused by open borders and mass immigration so long as I get to pat myself on the back over how good of a person I am.

You want to help people? Maybe start helping the women and Jews and gay people of Europe.
Welcome to the regressive left.
 

Gemüsepizza

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Nov 30, 2011
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So you're saying it is a good idea for countries to raise barbed wire fences and at the same time promise a better live for those that climb over it?
Or how about countries that say that if you cross the open sea in a tiny unsafe boat (don't forget to bring the kids) and reach their shores alive you'll be getting a chance to raise their kids in safety?

Either block people from coming here, or accept (some of) them in and provide for them adequately. Doing both halfheartedly is simply cruel and pointless.
Germany has not raised barbed wire fences. Also, our navy and several other organisations are tasked to rescue ships in the Mediterranean Sea. But I agree, we should do much more to help those refugees. We need to pick them up where they live, protect them and distribute them across Europe, and we need to secure their home countries.

I didn't know about this case but that article doesn't state that the whole thing was a lie at all.

It's a real 13 yo German girl who went missing. When she returned she said she was kidnapped and raped by multiple Arabs. Now she apparently changed this to going with them willingly (if sex happened that would still be a crime though). The police didn't comment so far. So it's not clear yet what happened, maybe she made up everything, maybe not.
Read the article. The police has issued an official statement: The girl was neither kidnapped nor raped. They will not provide additional information, to protect the well-being of the girl. The police also announced that they will press charges against anyone who is claiming that the police used illegal investigation or interrogation methods. They also said people shouldn't believe all the shit they read on social media.

And there it is. Deal with it. Sexual assault and rape? Deal with it. Stonings? Deal with it. Backwards values from backwards cultures? Deal with it. Deal with all the problems being caused by open borders and mass immigration so long as I get to pat myself on the back over how good of a person I am.

You want to help people? Maybe start helping the women and Jews and gay people of Europe.
There has not been a stoning. The German way of dealing with things like this is, to investigate any crimes and punish the perpetrators according to our law. Maybe you should just deal with that.

Also, are you honestly suggesting the left isn't doing anything to help women and minorities? Are you serious? And what exactly have you done to help those people?

Welcome to the regressive left.
A few people out of a group of millions commit crimes. Let's punish them all and leave them to die, even if 99% of them are innocent.

Welcome to the extreme right.
 

leatherhat

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Feb 7, 2011
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Gemüsepizza;192622836 said:
There has not been a stoning. The German way of dealing with things like this is, to investigate any crimes and punish the perpetrators according to our law. Maybe you should just deal with that.
You're right. I jumped the gun on that article. There has not been a stoning.

IF COULD HAVE EVERYONES ATTENTION: THERE HAS NOT BEEN A STONING - ONLY A WOMAN THREATENED TO BE STONED WHILE WALKING. EVERYTHING IS FINE RETURN TO YOUR BUSINESS.
 

MisterFalcon

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Mar 12, 2013
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Gemüsepizza;192622836 said:
A few people out of a group of millions commit crimes. Let's punish them all and leave them to die, even if 99% of them are innocent.

Welcome to the extreme right.
Everywhere outside Europe is a death camp where everyone is instantly killed upon deportation.

Welcome to the extreme left.
 

Violet_0

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Jul 26, 2011
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You're right. I jumped the gun on that article. There has not been a stoning.

IF COULD HAVE EVERYONES ATTENTION: THERE HAS NOT BEEN A STONING - ONLY A WOMAN THREATENED TO BE STONED WHILE WALKING. EVERYTHING IS FINE RETURN TO YOUR BUSINESS.
yes there hasn't been a stoning. A stoning is when they bury someone up to their head, then a crowd gathers around and throws stones at them until the person dies. That hasn't happened
 

ClosingADoor

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This is getting a bit long, so I don't know if I will continue answering this for much longer.

Random fistfight anywhere is germany worthy of a national news story?
No it is not.

Reporting on it only when it involves refugees is a disgusting double standard.

Anti-refugee crime is a whole other story than normal everyday crime that just happened to be commited by refugees.
Especially in germany where there is a history of violence against minorities.

And no, media as a whole has thankfully not switched to non-stop refugee crime reporting, only some outlets.
But there is definitely a much higher awareness to it after what happened in cologne.
Curiously foreign outlets are at the forefront. Some of the stories that have been posted here haven't even been picked up by german media when some UK or dutch outlets already reported on it.
Cologne played right into the right wing narrative, but from my perspective the right wing in germany is too weak to actually capitalize on it, whereas in other countries this is huge.
You are picking and choosing what you seem to think is "normal crime". You think anti-refugee crime should be reported, because that is new and out of the ordinary. Yet the current type of crime we see from immigrants and refugees is also not ordinary, so why is this less news worthy? Both can be reported just fine, but you are so afraid that some stories will have people move to a political party you don't like so you rather silence it.

Why do you think it doesn't work?
Its been a bumpy road so far, but saying that it doesn't work is a little far fetched.
Also keep in mind that germany was absolutely unprepared, all the investments Merkel approved will only start to have an effect over the coming months.
I don't know what you expected when the current situation is "doesn't work" in your book.
Integration has been a problem for years and years in multiple European countries. And you say it yourself, Germany started this path without being prepared about the outcome and were caught by surprise when suddenly problems occurred. That is why I don't think the current situation is working out well.

Been saying that for years. Europe has a creeping right wing problem. It showed a little almost two decades ago when the Euro was implemented. We saw it more during the financial crisis in 2007. And we saw it fully fledged when the greece crisis was the top media story: Nationalism and racism.
As I mentioned before, I think germany is more sensitive to these things and therefore started to push back early and as a result germany doesn't have a right wing party with threatening influence.
But when I look over the france, or austria, or the netherlands, or poland, or hungary...
Thats really, really bad.
Some would say we have had a left wing problem for a long time and political parties not listening to the public and ignoring important issues. I'm also far from happy about some of the political parties rising now, but if the current parties are unable to come up with solutions for what people think are major problems, they will move to someone who does say they have one. Now it is up to the other parties to come with solutions also.

Who on left wants to take in economic refugees?
The lefts position of not giving in to fearmongering and hatred is twisted in all kinds of way...
The problem is the left has tried to push away these problems so far and refused to talk about them that people don't even know where they stand anymore. The current policies have economic refugees getting the same type of treatment as people who actually need it, which is a waste of effort and money we need.

You don't want to upset Turkey by not taking some of the pressure off of them. Turkey is already chock full of refugees.
And that is why we are helping out with funds and should do more, and then take the most vulnerable from refugee camps there and give them a place in Europe to built a new future.

No, but as many as possible is an option.
Do you see anybody giving spain shit for not taking in many?
Everybody understands that some countries can't handle the refugees, but the ones that can have an obligation since they are all part of the EU and supposedly stand up for the european values.
Might as well not share common values when you through them out of the window by the first sign of trouble.
Opinions differ about which countries can handle it or not. Just because you think one country can, does not make that the truth or the popular opinion.

I know, but I think that "sending people to die" is necessary result of your solutions.
The current policies in place from the EU are sending people to die every day. They are encouraging people to make a dangerous journey on which people die.

The thing is that this won't be nearly enough to be able to handle the masses. People will quickly notice that this doesn't work and will keep trying to get to europe by boat or whatever.

1. Thats nice, but these young men will not stop to try to come here then.
2. The people from safe countries who have no chance to get a safe ticket to europe will just continue to make the dangerous journey.
3. Yeah that would be great in theory.
But in reality this will only work for a few people and the rest will just keep on making the dangerous journey and end up at the italian or any other border and they we have to decide whether we let them in or send them back(sending them back implies sending them die possibly and thats something that isn't compatible with our core values.)
Again with the sending them to die. How is sending somebody back from the Turkish - Greek border sending them to die? That is where the majority of people cross. Should America just open up the border with Mexico and let everybody in, because they could die two countries over?

Are you kidding me? You read what I just wrote and just shrugged it off as if these weren't real issue? You have to be fucking cold.
I mean, some of these people went through hell, are heavily traumatized and have an uncertain future in a country where they know nobody and nobody wants them. But hey, at least they get to sleep in a stinky hall with 500 other guys FOR FREE, so they must be stoked.
What is cold about expecting people not to commit crimes and not be aggressive towards the people who want to help them. Read the report about that refugee center linked earlier. Tell me how any of those people are reasonable with their demands? That is not an isolated situation.

I don't get how you can not see the fault in your logic. You don't want crime from refugees towards innocent people reported, but are happy to report crime against refugees because innocent people are hurt.

You do not want media to report about certain issues, because that could move people towards the right, but are in favor of reporting in a way that would have people move to the left.

You do not want people to die when crossing to Europe, but are happy to continue a policy that encourages people to make a dangerous crossing.

You talk about how we should help people, because they are traumatized and have an uncertain future, yet are in favor of a policy that only helps the strongest who can make the journey towards Europe.

You seem happy to spent billions of euros in Europe because it is needed and we can handle that burden, but do not want a policy in which that money can be put to more effective use and help more people.
 

SolidusDave

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Gemüsepizza;192622836 said:
Read the article. The police has issued an official statement: The girl was neither kidnapped nor raped. They will not provide additional information, to protect the well-being of the girl. The police also announced that they will press charges against anyone who is claiming that the police used illegal investigation or interrogation methods. They also said people shouldn't believe all the shit they read on social media.
Sorry, you're right, I missed that link from the police statement for some reason. But my point was more about it being an actual case (and apparently the girl just lied about the reason for her disappearance) that was then picked up my social media etc.
To me the post sounded like the right wing made it up completely and got caught.
 

Tacitus_

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Finnish Police just published their very detailed report of what's been happening.

My slightly compacted translation (it's 4 pages):

The setup
Police became aware of a rumor that there would be a group of iraqis gathering at Aavaranta refugee center, Espoo in order to commit sexual crimes and general nuisance. Police was already aware of a rise in sexual harassment by asylum seekers during the last months of the year. The investigations by the police department of Western Uusimaa caused the arrest of a few asylum seekers from the Aavaranta refugee centers on the suspicion of encouragement to criminal activity. The Helsinki police had not noticed this rumor, but at least police patrols in Tampere were told such story by iraqis.
Police responded by heavily reinforcing their patrols and instructed officers to respond more eagerly to drunken women and possible sexual harassment from asylum seekers and to dress in high visibility vests.

Keeping the peace
Tens of asylum seekers arrived to Helsinki via buses and people from the refugee centers also went to the streets. The railway station especially became a hotspot, gathering up to 1000 asylum seekers of mainly iraqi origin. 101 persons were arrested, of which 23 had asylum seeker status. Possible harassment situations happened at places where the police didn't have a presence at that moment.

Criminal investigation
During New Years Eve, police was notified of two sexual crimes, both happened in central Helsinki. One was sexual harassment (and attempted theft), other attempted rape. Both suspects are asylum seekers. 5.1.2016 police was notified of a crime involving a woman and three foreign persons / persons with foreign background. The men had groped, touched, pushed and hit the victim. She also claims she lost consciousness.

After the Eve, the police was made aware of several sexual crimes committed against women. According to security guards, there was a large group of foreign people harassing young girls at the Senate Square. The police also was made aware of several groups of 10-20 foreign men that were sexually harassing single or small groups of women. The police concentrated the investigation of these crimes to the Serious Crime unit.
As of 18.1.2015, the police is investigating 15 crime reports. They are 1 rape, 2 attempts at rape and 12 counts of sexual harassment. The reports also include assault, attempted theft, attempted robbery and breaking the peace of communication (t/n: can't figure out how to translate this, crime is continually calling/messaging to the point of harassment).
The cleared investigations have asylum seekers as suspects. All but 2 counts were committed at public places. Preliminary and uncleared investigations all have persons with foreign looks as suspects. According to the preliminary investigations, the crimes can be summed to three categories:
1) the suspect is a young man committing a sexual crime towards an individual
2) the suspects were in a group of up to 10-20 young men, committing a sexual crime towards an individual woman
3) the suspects were in a group of up to 10-20 young men, committing sexual crimes towards two or more women at the same time

The victims were women aged 14-66 (t/n: bolding mine). The crimes caused both physical and mental pain and suffering. Some victims have expressed anxiety and fear of additional crimes, which has lowered their sense of safety.
The victims seem to have been selected according to their vulnerability.

The New Years crimes are abnormal in both in their amount and in their means. The police database has no records of such a large amount of sexual crimes committed in a single day. The crimes included groping, squeezing and touching of the body and licking of the face (t/n: wtf?). According to the victims the groups may have had a prearranged tactic, where some of them surrounded the victim and the rest committed the actual crime. The ones surrounding the victim were tasked with the prevention of the victim escaping, others interfering and the crime being discovered.
This activity is completely new to Helsinki in both scope and in the way the crimes were committed.
 

Purkake4

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Very nice to see the Finnish police deal with the issue in a transparent and effective manner right from the start.
 

Morrigan Stark

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Finnish Police just published their very detailed report of what's been happening.

My slightly compacted translation (it's 4 pages):

The setup
Police became aware of a rumor that there would be a group of iraqis gathering at Aavaranta refugee center, Espoo in order to commit sexual crimes and general nuisance. Police was already aware of a rise in sexual harassment by asylum seekers during the last months of the year. The investigations by the police department of Western Uusimaa caused the arrest of a few asylum seekers from the Aavaranta refugee centers on the suspicion of encouragement to criminal activity. The Helsinki police had not noticed this rumor, but at least police patrols in Tampere were told such story by iraqis.
Police responded by heavily reinforcing their patrols and instructed officers to respond more eagerly to drunken women and possible sexual harassment from asylum seekers and to dress in high visibility vests.

Keeping the peace
Tens of asylum seekers arrived to Helsinki via buses and people from the refugee centers also went to the streets. The railway station especially became a hotspot, gathering up to 1000 asylum seekers of mainly iraqi origin. 101 persons were arrested, of which 23 had asylum seeker status. Possible harassment situations happened at places where the police didn't have a presence at that moment.

Criminal investigation
During New Years Eve, police was notified of two sexual crimes, both happened in central Helsinki. One was sexual harassment (and attempted theft), other attempted rape. Both suspects are asylum seekers. 5.1.2016 police was notified of a crime involving a woman and three foreign persons / persons with foreign background. The men had groped, touched, pushed and hit the victim. She also claims she lost consciousness.

After the Eve, the police was made aware of several sexual crimes committed against women. According to security guards, there was a large group of foreign people harassing young girls at the Senate Square. The police also was made aware of several groups of 10-20 foreign men that were sexually harassing single or small groups of women. The police concentrated the investigation of these crimes to the Serious Crime unit.
As of 18.1.2015, the police is investigating 15 crime reports. They are 1 rape, 2 attempts at rape and 12 counts of sexual harassment. The reports also include assault, attempted theft, attempted robbery and breaking the peace of communication (t/n: can't figure out how to translate this, crime is continually calling/messaging to the point of harassment).
The cleared investigations have asylum seekers as suspects. All but 2 counts were committed at public places. Preliminary and uncleared investigations all have persons with foreign looks as suspects. According to the preliminary investigations, the crimes can be summed to three categories:
1) the suspect is a young man committing a sexual crime towards an individual
2) the suspects were in a group of up to 10-20 young men, committing a sexual crime towards an individual woman
3) the suspects were in a group of up to 10-20 young men, committing sexual crimes towards two or more women at the same time

The victims were women aged 14-66 (t/n: bolding mine). The crimes caused both physical and mental pain and suffering. Some victims have expressed anxiety and fear of additional crimes, which has lowered their sense of safety.
The victims seem to have been selected according to their vulnerability.

The New Years crimes are abnormal in both in their amount and in their means. The police database has no records of such a large amount of sexual crimes committed in a single day. The crimes included groping, squeezing and touching of the body and licking of the face (t/n: wtf?). According to the victims the groups may have had a prearranged tactic, where some of them surrounded the victim and the rest committed the actual crime. The ones surrounding the victim were tasked with the prevention of the victim escaping, others interfering and the crime being discovered.
This activity is completely new to Helsinki in both scope and in the way the crimes were committed.
Damn, this is fucked up. What the fuck is wrong with these men?

I like how the Finland police didn't beat around the bush. I hope the victims get justice, and if Finland must restrict access to asylum seekers to protect itself, then so be it.
 
May 30, 2011
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There was even a report a few months back the Finnish Police arrested two Iraqi Twins suspected of participating in the Iraqi massacre in Tikrit.

Good on the Finns for being able to apprehend these scumbags
 

Tacitus_

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Damn, this is fucked up. What the fuck is wrong with these men?

I like how the Finland police didn't beat around the bush. I hope the victims get justice, and if Finland must restrict access to asylum seekers to protect itself, then so be it.
We are fast tracking legislation to classify Iraq as a safe country, denying Iraqis automatic asylum. Sweden already has done so, but they put the Iraqis that came there last year on trains and put them on our border (thanks a lot!).

E: I don't want to imply that all Iraqi would so such things, but this current lot seems to be mainly Iraqi.
 

Mrmartel

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The final tally for crimes that occurred and reported in Cologne Germany, on NYE is out and below is just small sample of the crimes committed. The crimes are listed at the time they occurred. The list below is 50 of the 821 complaints that contained a total of 1049 victims.

So these are complaints 150 through 200 (out of 821). I'd put the entire list down, but formatting is a pain. Plus you get the idea anyways. It doesn't get any better as the night went on.

The order number follows a description of the crime, followed by the date/time/gender of victim(s).

150 Raid-like rape / sexual assault by a group 12/31/2015 23:00:00 female
151 Sexual assault / rape by a group 12/31/2015 23:02:00 | Male | Female | Female |
152 Purse snatching 12/31/2015 23:02:00 | Male | Female | Female |
153 Robbery 12/31/2015 23:03:00 female
154 Pickpocketing 12/31/2015 23:05:00 female
155 Hazardous injury on roads, paths or squares 12/31/2015 23:10:00 | Male | Female | Male | Female |
156 Raid-like rape / sexual assault by a group 12/31/2015 23:10:00 | Male | Female |
157 Pickpocketing 12/31/2015 23:15:00 male
158 Rape on roads, paths or squares 12/31/2015 23:15:00 female
159 Sexual assault / rape 12/31/2015 23:15:00 female
160 theft 12/31/2015 23:15:00 female
161 Sexual assault / rape 12/31/2015 23:15:00 | Male | Female |
162 Intentional simple assault 12/31/2015 23:15:00 female
163 Hazardous injury on roads, paths or squares 12/31/2015 23:15:00 female
164 Insult on sexual basis 12/31/2015 23:15:00 | Male | Female |
165 theft 12/31/2015 23:15:00 | Male | Female |
166 Sexual assault / rape by a group 12/31/2015 23:15:00 female
167 Robbery 12/31/2015 23:15:00 female
168 Sexual assault / rape by a group 12/31/2015 23:15:00 female
169 Raid-like rape / sexual assault by a group 12/31/2015 23:15:00 | Male | Female | Male | Female |
170 theft 12/31/2015 23:15:00 | Male | Female |
171 Insult on sexual basis 12/31/2015 23:15:00 | Male | Female |
172 Insult on sexual basis 12/31/2015 23:15:00 | Male | Female |
173 Insult on sexual basis 12/31/2015 23:15:00 female
174 Sexual assault / rape by a group 12/31/2015 23:15:00 female
175 Insult on sexual basis 12/31/2015 23:15:00 | Male | Female | Female |
176 Insult on sexual basis 12/31/2015 23:15:00 | Male | Female | Male | Female |
177 Pickpocketing 12/31/2015 23:20:00 female
178 Sexual assault / rape 12/31/2015 23:20:00 female
179 Sexual assault / rape by a group 12/31/2015 23:20:00 | Male | Female | Female |
180 Sexual assault / rape by a group 12/31/2015 23:20:00 seven female
181 Sexual assault / rape by a group 12/31/2015 23:20:00 female
182 theft 12/31/2015 23:25:00 male
183 Pickpocketing 12/31/2015 23:25:00 female
184 Sexual assault / rape by a group 12/31/2015 23:30:00 female
185 Robbery 12/31/2015 23:30:00 male
186 Pickpocketing 12/31/2015 23:30:00 female
187 Raid-like rape / sexual assault by a group 12/31/2015 23:30:00 | Male | Female | Female
188 Robbery 12/31/2015 23:30:00 | Male | Female |
189 Rape on roads, paths or squares 12/31/2015 23:30:00 | Male | Female |
190 Pickpocketing 12/31/2015 23:30:00 | Male | Female |
191 Insult on sexual basis 12/31/2015 23:30:00 female
192 Bes. schw. Case of pickpocketing 12/31/2015 23:30:00 female
193 Sexual assault / rape by a group 12/31/2015 23:30:00 female
194 Robbery 12/31/2015 23:30:00 | Male | Female |
195 Pickpocketing 12/31/2015 23:30:00 female
196 Pickpocketing 12/31/2015 23:30:00 male
197 Insult on sexual basis 12/31/2015 23:30:00 female
198 Sexual assault / rape by a group 12/31/2015 23:30:00 | Male | Female |
199 Pickpocketing 12/31/2015 23:30:00 | Male | Male | Female | Female |
200 Sexual assault / rape by a group 12/31/2015 23:30:00 | Male | Female |

All of these crimes were committed within 30 minutes.

German Source (called it the list of shame)

http://www.bild.de/regional/duesseldorf/ralf-jaeger/die-liste-der-schande-44239678.bild.html

and the Breitbart translation. Cause there the only ones that have done it.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/21/revealed-full-list-of-1049-victims-crimes-committed-during-cologne-new-years-eve-sex-assaults/
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
Jun 8, 2004
17,844
961
1,690
Wow, Economist really turned on Merkel today




Economist said:
An ill wind

In Europe and at home, Angela Merkel’s refugee policy is being blown away


(...)

In the meantime, Germany is beginning the difficult work of integrating hundreds of thousands of newcomers. The new-year horrors of Cologne, when hundreds of women were sexually assaulted by marauding groups of men, many of them Muslim asylum-seekers, focused minds on cultural differences. But bringing refugees into the workforce, the main engine of integration, represents at least as big a challenge. The assumption that Germany’s tight labour market was tailor-made for job-hungry migrants has given way to the grim realisation that most are an ill fit for an economy mainly seeking highly skilled workers. The head of one business group reckons almost 80% of refugees have next to no skills at all.

Mrs Merkel is racing against time. Her Christian Democratic Union and its coalition partners are increasingly restive. Cabinet ministers have openly challenged the chancellor’s position. The anti-immigration Alternative for Germany party is notching up double-digit polling results for the first time. Refugees languish in supposedly temporary accommodation months after arriving in Germany. Mrs Merkel continues to insist that there can be no cap on the number of refugees Germany accepts, and the constitution agrees with her. But increasingly, reality does not.

(...)
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21688896-europe-and-home-angela-merkels-refugee-policy-being-blown-away-ill-wind?fsrc=scn/fb/te/pe/ed/allinwing
 

ClosingADoor

Member
Apr 6, 2009
16,926
0
0
Amsterdam
Seems the federal police in Germany had a report come out about the crimes on New Years Eve. It says similar assaults happened in 12 of the 16 German states, but some isolated and not in the scale as in Cologne.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/polizei-bka-bericht-silvester-uebergriffe-in-zwoelf-bundeslaendern-1.2831374

In twelve countries it came at night to 1 January to sexual and theft offenses, in some countries there were, however, only isolated cases. That's according to information from WDR, NDR and Süddeutsche Zeitung emerges from a confidential management report of the Federal.
Bayern reported 27 assaults with emphasis in Nuremberg and Munich, Berlin and Baden-Württemberg six 25. Bremen announces eleven "Antanzdiebstähle", but without sexual assaults. In Hessen were 31 cases of sexual assault, sexual offense, theft and attempted theft found, but suspects could not be found there.
In Hamburg the report says were 195 cases displayed, most of them purely sexual offenses. Eight suspects could be identified. With a focus on in Cologne, Dusseldorf and Bielefeld, the North Rhine-Westphalian investigators reported a total of 1076 crimes. It is 692 Körperverletzungs- and property crimes and 384 sexual offenses.
The conclusion of the investigators: In the so-called "Antanzdiebstahl" is a new form of crime, which was however not agreed or nationwide denied by previous findings.
In all provinces, the victims are female, with few exceptions, and the suspects young men aged around 17 to 30 years.
Police are calling it a new type of crime. Let's see if something can be done about it, because we don't want this sort of stuff to spread any further.

Spiegel also has an interesting article about some of the trouble we are seeing with the immigration crisis, some a long time in the making because of politicians looking away.

Stretched to the Limit: Has the German State Lost Control?
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germans-ask-if-country-is-still-safe-after-cologne-attacks-a-1073165.html

States aren't at all interested in taking back their citizens that are deported from Germany, thousands are awaiting deportation because of Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco working against it.

Of course Tunisia could take back a few Tunisians. Germany would like to repatriate about 1,200 of the country's nationals, [..] But German officials can't seem to reach anybody. The result: Only six Tunisians were deported from Germany during the first six months of 2015.
Or Algeria. The Algerians have actually nothing against German inquiries as to whether they can send home one of the more than 2,000 Algerians who have been deemed subject to immediate deportation. [..] In the end, only 24 were sent home.
And finally, Morocco. When the Germans present an expired passport at the Moroccan Embassy for one of the 2,300 Moroccans who have been ordered to leave, it first takes months before a new one is issued. Sometimes, apparently, it takes forever. Only 23 were sent home in the first half of last year.
When German authorities, for example, notify the Moroccan Embassy about a candidate for deportation, officials say they often get answers like, "We can't find that person in our database."
The consequences of not being able to deport have become apparent in places like Cologne. Or in the state of Saxony. An Interior Ministry report from the end of 2015 notes that a quarter of all foreigners suspected of committing crimes in the state were Tunisians, despite the fact that they comprise only 4 percent of all immigrants in the state. So far, authorities haven only succeeded in deporting very few.
Police is underfunded, overworked and under equipped for years.

Largely unnoticed by the populace at large, German policymakers have spent the past few years reducing the size of the police forces while at the same time inundating them with new responsibilities. "It was bound to happen sooner or later," says a police union official about the New Year's attacks.
there were 237,198 state police officers in 2000, but today there are 10,000 fewer. Furthermore, all German states are faced with a mountain of overtime racked up by their officers -- some 18 million hours nationwide.
And it's not just police personnel that have been overworked. Equipment too is well beyond its wear limit, in many cases to the point that it has become dangerous. A classified Federal Interior Ministry report from Jan. 19, 2015 notes that German police would be unable to adequately protect themselves from gunfire from a Kalashnikov, the favored weapon of terrorists worldwide -- even in their response vehicles.
Oh, and the back up units some here in this thread said could have prevented the Cologne situation if called in. Doesn't seem that true:

What Jäger doesn't mention is that those officers assigned to backup units, had they been called, would have needed at least two hours to respond.
Then we have the issue of immigrants just disappearing and providing a ton of fake information.

In many places, refugees simply disappear soon after arrival, without anyone knowing where they've gone. The operators of some asylum-seeker camps, like one in the state of Hesse outside of Frankfurt, report a disappearance rate among refugees as high as 50 percent within the first two days after arrival.
Those determined to do so, can thus secure duplicate social benefits, such as the €143 a month in pocket money, from the government without getting caught simply by registering in different states using either the same or different names.
Given the chaotic procedures that are currently in place, criminals can simply secure official papers for multiple identities.
Seems more funding towards police is necessary, and better systems to actually register people and deport them when needed.
 

dwr

Member
Jun 19, 2013
56
0
0
Cologne sex attacks: 'Safe zone' for women planned ahead of city's carnival [The Telegraph]

Authorities in the German city of Cologne are to set up a “safe zone” for women during the annual carnival which begins next week, to avoid a repeat of the New Year sex attacks on women.
The Cologne carnival is one of the largest street festivals in Europe, and attracts more than 1m people to its main parade each year.
The authorities plan to provide extra street lighting and set up a “safe zone” for women in the city centre, staffed with social workers.

“We are aware these carnival days are a challenge for us to show that we have learned from the terrible events of New Year's Eve,” Guido Kahlen, a city councillor, said.
“Every tenth detective in Cologne is now working on the events of New Year’s Eve,” Sebastian Fiedler of the German police union said.

But the investigation is believed to be struggling because Cologne has no official CCTV cameras.

Police are being forced to identify suspects from private security cameras belonging to nearby businesses and mobile phone footage.

The time stamps on the different cameras often do not match, making it difficult to use the footage as evidence in court.
Entire article at the link.

The shitty 60k inhabitants city in Italy where I live has CCTV cameras... Cologne WTH... D:
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Jul 23, 2010
31,070
6
720
www.metal-archives.com
How will the "safe zone" even work? Women-only*? Or are men allowed but only if they're not brown immigrants? The latter is absurd. Maybe cops everywhere? The article mentions social workers being present, not sure how that would really help.

* Reminds me of the women-only wagons in Japanese trains. Good that women have a safe zone free of groping, but all the same, it's a bandage, treating the symptom and not the disease, which is the rampant misogyny and male entitlement as part of that culture. Women should be free to participate in carnivals and festivals (and take the train) with male friends without feeling unsafe.
 

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Jul 11, 2014
36,966
0
0
How will the "safe zone" even work? Women-only*? Or are men allowed but only if they're not brown immigrants? The latter is absurd. Maybe cops everywhere? The article mentions social workers being present, not sure how that would really help.

* Reminds me of the women-only wagons in Japanese trains. Good that women have a safe zone free of groping, but all the same, it's a bandage, treating the symptom and not the disease, which is the rampant misogyny and male entitlement as part of that culture. Women should be free to participate in carnivals and festivals (and take the train) with male friends without feeling unsafe.
Yeah, it's completely bizarre. Point of a festival is to mish and mash with everyone. I mean, I'm not against having a designated 'female only' zone in light of recent events, but it's setting a weird precedent for future events and festivals. There shouldn't have been a situation where the city felt the need to have a safe zone like this to begin with, but here they are.
 

Zaph

Member
Jun 19, 2010
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0
620
These 'Safe Zones' sound more like women's shelters/crisis centres for potential victims or women who feel threatened, rather than a segregated zone for only women to party.

Either way, it's terrible that this is needed.
 

timetokill

Banned
Oct 19, 2004
32,841
0
0
Los Angeles, CA
Lovely that it's come to needing "safe zones." I can't imagine feeling safe knowing that you need to actually be in a safe zone to BE safe. Knowing that's what your community has turned into. Ugh.
 

dapperbandit

Banned
May 16, 2013
5,841
0
0
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35424648

The teen, named only as 13-year-old Lisa F, said she was abducted and raped by migrants, but German police have said there is no evidence of either.
German police concluded that sexual contact was not forced in the case of Lisa F, whose full name is protected for legal reasons.
The age of consent in Germany is 14 and prosecutors are investigating two men for child abuse.
I'm really beginning to find the micro bias in the bbc's reporting impossible to ignore.

In no other BBC article would you find the word "rape" in quotation marks.

If the police report is correct that is the definition of statutory rape.

I started to notice this on the BBC news website recently. Like, there RAF or US fighter jets and then there are Russian "warplanes". Or the incredibly obvious bias in the selection of the lead picture associated with an article.

I don't even have to look hard to find one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35434125

Boy does Cameron look hair brained in this picture! But don't let that affect your opinion on the EU referendum.
 

Jumeira

Member
Aug 11, 2015
4,028
0
0
How will the "safe zone" even work? Women-only*? Or are men allowed but only if they're not brown immigrants? The latter is absurd. Maybe cops everywhere? The article mentions social workers being present, not sure how that would really help.

* Reminds me of the women-only wagons in Japanese trains. Good that women have a safe zone free of groping, but all the same, it's a bandage, treating the symptom and not the disease, which is the rampant misogyny and male entitlement as part of that culture. Women should be free to participate in carnivals and festivals (and take the train) with male friends without feeling unsafe.
Isn't the women only wagon optional for women ? And I don't think women only regions is a terrible idea if women want it. Men are bothersome even if they're not actively trying to invade your space, any reasonable looking female would agree with this IMO. We stare but many ogle and annoy, my wife has to deal with this constantly, and it adds a level of frustration we men don't have to deal with. 2 days ago a random guy pinched her bum on the way to work, it was 5am and she had an early start, what amazed us was that he managed this while riding his bike. After my initial amazement at this bastards dexterity, I started to consider buying her pepper spray. Guys are constantly hassling her, and in the short term that's going to continue (unless I'm with her all the time ).

I was at the PINK store with my wife, she was shopping for lingerie/yoga pants etc and I was waiting for her (to see her in yoga pants of course) near the changing room, I was told by the clerk I had to stay well back. I have no interest in any other lady and I'm purely there for my wife, she's more than enough for me, but I can't help but feel a little insulted, as if I was a creep. Still, it is what it is, my wife isn't troubled when she waits for me when I'm trying my clothes in the male changing rooms.
 

Irminsul

Member
Aug 14, 2012
3,955
0
0
Germany
If the police report is correct that is the definition of statutory rape.
May be an issue of translating from German legal definitions, because consensual sex with minors is never called "rape" in Germany. It's still illegal, but something different. Regarding the case itself, "alleged rape" is the term that's used for it in Germany, it's basically the same as using quotation marks.

Also, "the age of consent is 14" is the far worse misreporting of the BBC. It is in some cases, yes. But not generally.
 

MisterFalcon

Member
Mar 12, 2013
2,899
114
410
States aren't at all interested in taking back their citizens that are deported from Germany, thousands are awaiting deportation because of Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco working against it.
All this big talk of sending people back is going nowhere and the politicians must know this. No airline or ferry company will want to have thousands of often violently resisting people on their planes or ships, the agencies which will carry out the deportations are stretched beyond the limit already and the countries where they are sent to are not cooperating. So out of the involved parties no one is really capable or willing to carry out what our enlightened rulers have decreed should happen.
 

ClosingADoor

Member
Apr 6, 2009
16,926
0
0
Amsterdam
Safe zones for women. What have we come to... How can a large city like Cologne not have better plans in place.

And this doesn't give us much trust in the police or justice system for crimes like this:

“We’re really giving it everything, and we may end up with a few suspended sentences — if that,” a police source told Spiegel.
All this big talk of sending people back is going nowhere and the politicians must know this. No airline or ferry company will want to have thousands of often violently resisting people on their planes or ships, the agencies which will carry out the deportations are stretched beyond the limit already and the countries where they are sent to are not cooperating. So out of the involved parties no one is really capable or willing to carry out what our enlightened rulers have decreed should happen.
The Dutch now have a plan to ferry people back from Greece islands directly to Turkey. Of course the big question is: will Turkey accept and how will they handle the people? Do you lock them up in Turkey, let them go there, process them back to refugee camps and countries of origin? But things like that are the only way to discourage people from trying to make the crossing. You will have to sent them back somewhere. Let's see how it works out.
 

iceatcs

Junior Member
Jul 9, 2007
10,615
0
860
London
Most Germany city/town do not have proper CCTV system?



In the UK, it pretty much everywhere in the public/private area. Used with it.
 

ClosingADoor

Member
Apr 6, 2009
16,926
0
0
Amsterdam
Sounds a lot like turning back the boats.
It would be sending people back across the border they just illegally crossed. Pretty normal stuff anywhere really, just with large numbers which makes it incredibly difficult. And with people not actually from Turkey, so that country needs to be willing to take them in and process from there.
 

Chairmanchuck

Member
Jun 18, 2011
14,211
0
0
Most Germany city/town do not have proper CCTV system?



In the UK, it pretty much everywhere in the public/private area. Used with it.
Thats mostly because of our data privacy laws that there are not in that many places and if you want to put a CCTV at a public place, it must be visible and afaik you have to put up a notice that you are filmed.
 

iceatcs

Junior Member
Jul 9, 2007
10,615
0
860
London
Thats mostly because of our data privacy laws that there are not in that many places and if you want to put a CCTV at a public place, it must be visible and afaik you have to put up a notice that you are filmed.
Oh yeah, I forget about Germany privacy laws. One of the strictest. Advanced for migrants.
 

Chairmanchuck

Member
Jun 18, 2011
14,211
0
0
I recently heard that there might even be legal trouble with using dashcams
The german with german privacy and IT law is, that it never adapted. There are not many specialists in that field and the ones who are, are usually old man/women, who dont even know how these system works.

It never adapted to the times. For dashcams, they actually just need to add two new paragraphs to remove the restriction it has to be able to use it as a proof in court and to be able to use it for recording without asking people to be okay with it. But alas, the ones who are making the laws, are too stupid to figure it out and cant adapt to modern times.

Hell, 90% of IT-law doesnt fit the current technology we have now, because most of the paragraphs were written in the 80s/90s.

The sad thing is, that such things just change, if a big company has trouble like Deutsche Telekom...

Dash cams are not allowed in Germany.
Its not that they are not allowed. You cant use them as a sort of proof according to the StPO/ZPO and, because you film someone else and then send it to your insurance, upload it, you might get a fine.
You can use them for yourself if you want, but you arent allowed to give others access to the videos it records.

This system is totally outdated though. Lets say you have an accident, your dashcam footage shows you are not at fault and you/your insurance takes that case to court. Even though you are not allowed to use the footage as proof, the judge, both parties etc. know about that video and know who is at fault and the judge, even though he isnt allowed to use it as proof legally, can "judge" by that, even if he never saw it.
 

Kinokou

Member
Jan 29, 2013
2,148
0
0
Cologne sex attacks: 'Safe zone' for women planned ahead of city's carnival [The Telegraph]







Entire article at the link.

The shitty 60k inhabitants city in Italy where I live has CCTV cameras... Cologne WTH... D:
It's a odd thing, as others commented, it implies the rest will not be safe which pretty much could lead to victim blaming if someone get assaulted outside of the safe zone. But it's not clear for me if it's meant as a women's only area or a "come here if you were assaulted" area. if it is the latter they should make sure to have more than just one.
 

CheekiBreeky

Banned
Nov 24, 2015
7
0
0
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12127980/Volunteer-at-Berlin-refugee-office-admits-he-made-up-story-of-migrant-freezing-to-death.html
Authorities and volunteers in Germany are in shock after it emerged that claims an asylum-seeker had frozen to death outside Berlin’s main government office for refugees were a macabre hoax.

Police launched an urgent inquiry after claims emerged that a young Syrian man had collapsed while queuing outside the office and later died in hospital.

A volunteer who works with refugees has now admitted he made the entire incident up, but his motivation for the bizarre stunt remains unclear.
This is getting ridiculous
 

EloKa

Member
Feb 18, 2014
1,905
0
0
regarding the 13 year old girl that got raped by asylum seekers:
Lisa-verbrachte-die-Nacht-beim-Freund (german)

Police tracked her phone and she spend the night with her 19 y/o boyfriend.
She was hiding from her parents because they should have gone to a conference with her teacher because of the bad grades.

Her boyfriend already confessed the story. No rape or any other kind of sexual interaction happened.
 

ClosingADoor

Member
Apr 6, 2009
16,926
0
0
Amsterdam
Cover up incidents when refugees hurt/rape people and make up incidents about refugees to gain support?

Some of these refugee volunteers should be ostracized with the perpetrators and the economic migrants.
To be fair, it works the other way too with people making up stories about refugees doing crime that turned out to be false.

Both are terrible and only hurt the discussion.
 
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