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Getting A Job As A Game Designer

Vark

Member
The first step is to realize that being a 'lead designer, creative director, executive whatever' (all companies seem to call it something different) has more to do with management and trusting other people to bring your vision to life. And very very little to do with actually making anything.

Key phrases you should master:

"Hmmm you know, that looks O.K, but I was kinda thinking this would be ..."

*a week later after someone bust their ass on a change*

"You know. I think I liked it more the other way."

*walk up to someones cube, look at their monitor, and audibly suck air in through your teeth* "You ARE planning on staying late tonight right?"

"Needs more chainsaws"

"Hey, I know we're 3 months from alpha, but did you play that new (insert new release here). They did this awsome thing with (insert feature here). We should add that!"

"First off I would just like to start this meeting by saying how great these last twenty-four months have been, you're the hardest working group of people I've ever known, you're like family. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you've all heard ..."
 

loosus

Banned
Jusy my opinion: don't bother. I think you'd be much better off getting something that requires grunt work, even if you do eventually get bumped up. You could be programmer, for example. At least if you can code in C++, you won't be restricted to the gaming industry.
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
You know, threads like this make me realize that I really need to finish mailing off issue #1 and start work on issue #2, hopefully with articles dealing with this sort of thing.
 
Walk in the office, give them the neoGAF secret handshake......and you're on 35k a year, company car, life insurance, income bonds and a great pension scheme.
 

terrene

Banned
I have a question, and this is a newb quesiton, but here goes:

If you are a game designer, especially if you invented the game idea and wrote the original design doc, is it like the other creative industries where you get a percentage of the sales?

In otherwords, GAF should help me finish this sentence:

Artists who express themselves with music, pictures, and films get royalties and gross points, while game inventors/designers get ____?

lol this should be good
 

Scrow

Still Tagged Accordingly
terrene said:
Artists who express themselves with music, pictures, and films get royalties and gross points, while game inventors/designers get ____?
paid to do their job

?
 
Another thing you can do is analyse games that already exist and show you understand what's going on beyond the art and the nice looks: What happens with the controller, with the camera, level design pacing, scale etc etc.
There is a lot to look at and the best games go really deep into this. If you can 'see' what happens there, you can get a job. Ideas are not worth anything, everyone has ideas.
But knowing what happens behind the curtain... That's worth a lot.
Use flash or any tool available to try to reproduce the fundamentals of a game and you will see how much there is.
If you can do that, tune that demo and communicate what you have learned, you will get a job.
 

Thraktor

Member
terrene said:
Nah, not just salary. Do they get points on the game sales?

As far as I know, like any other employee they'll get bonuses depending on how the game sells, but I don't think it's a huge amount more than, say, the lead artist or lead programmer would get. The only exceptions are goint to be names like Will Wright or Hideo Kojima, where the name can actually sell the game, like Spielberg does if it's written on top of a movie poster.
 
I got a college degree. And not some "video game design" degree from some fly bynight operation. Then I started as a tester, did some design doc. work (updating and managing) and got promoted to design. This is pretty much how most people I work with moved up as well.
 
Vark said:
The first step is to realize that being a 'lead designer, creative director, executive whatever' (all companies seem to call it something different) has more to do with management and trusting other people to bring your vision to life. And very very little to do with actually making anything.

Key phrases you should master:

"Hmmm you know, that looks O.K, but I was kinda thinking this would be ..."

*a week later after someone bust their ass on a change*

"You know. I think I liked it more the other way."

*walk up to someones cube, look at their monitor, and audibly suck air in through your teeth* "You ARE planning on staying late tonight right?"

"Needs more chainsaws"

"Hey, I know we're 3 months from alpha, but did you play that new (insert new release here). They did this awsome thing with (insert feature here). We should add that!"

"First off I would just like to start this meeting by saying how great these last twenty-four months have been, you're the hardest working group of people I've ever known, you're like family. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you've all heard ..."
:lol :lol :lol
That is perfect. Though certainly the worst possible quotes would have to be lincensors/marketers.
 
Vark said:
The first step is to realize that being a 'lead designer, creative director, executive whatever' (all companies seem to call it something different) has more to do with management and trusting other people to bring your vision to life. And very very little to do with actually making anything.

Key phrases you should master:

"Hmmm you know, that looks O.K, but I was kinda thinking this would be ..."

*a week later after someone bust their ass on a change*

"You know. I think I liked it more the other way."

*walk up to someones cube, look at their monitor, and audibly suck air in through your teeth* "You ARE planning on staying late tonight right?"

"Needs more chainsaws"

"Hey, I know we're 3 months from alpha, but did you play that new (insert new release here). They did this awsome thing with (insert feature here). We should add that!"

"First off I would just like to start this meeting by saying how great these last twenty-four months have been, you're the hardest working group of people I've ever known, you're like family. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you've all heard ..."

It's like you went INTO my head! <3
 

Ravidrath

Member
WTF, Gaz? We don't want any of these people working in our industry...don't give them any help. I know you're all snug and secure on your prison island, but, please, think of your friends!

ANYWAY...

First up, people are being too general with their terms here. There are multiple types of designers, and unless you've got a really good connection or are headed to a really small company, you're not going to be a "game designer" right away. A typical design heirarchy goes something like this...

Level Designer
Game Designer
Senior Designer
Lead Designer
Game Director
Creative Director

Level Designers make levels. Game and Senior Designers oversee the development of the game's ideas and do some direct implementation themselves, often times focusing more on tuning of systems rather than individual levels. Lead Designers oversee the entire design department, and usually have some managerial or scheduling tasks folded in with the design stuff. A game director, should the project have it, is the holder of the project's vision and works with the design, art and programming departments to realize that. A Creative Director oversees the development of several projects.

I'm a game designer. I got in through connections I made while I was gaming media, which lead to two summer design internships and a job after I graduated from college. This is not a traditional path to design, of course...

A more traditional route would be through QA testing. Many companies hire designers from their QA departments in part because design is generally underappreciated, and QA people are generally hard-working, are forced to keep a schedule and have to communicate effectively with a team in order to do their job. I guess this is what they call "paying your dues," and it doesn't always leads to good designer candidates, but being a tester and proving your worth there while you play around with mods and design tools is generally a good way to get a job as a Level Designer.

While an understanding of games is helpful, of course, the fact of the matter is that for most people it's not going to matter because in most situations you won't be making any real, overarching gameplay decisions or contributions for a while - understand this now or be unhappy later.

To move beyond Level Designer, the most important thing is an ability to communicate, both verbally and in writing. You have no idea how infuriating it can be to work with someone who can't communicate a simple idea about a game, and how much chaos that can create on a project. I've worked with leads who couldn't put a coherent sentence together to save their lives, and seen his design team's intent get twisted and raped because of it, seriously hurting the quality of the game. Some of this is bound to happen just through standard project compromises to meet the schedule and whatnot, but when it happens simply because your lead can't talk good it's really painful.

With all of that out of the way, I should say that I'm currently pretty miserable at work, and have considered getting out of design and the games industry several times. This mostly stems from a bad string of experiences than the professional as a whole, but companies do tend to put technology and process before game quality. That said, design is not afforded the respect it probably deserves because of the simple fact that we can't really make anything without other people's help. Additionally, everyone thinks they're a designer and are constantly bombarding you with bad, undeveloped ideas, and think that because they can do it your job is meaningless. Of course, at the same time, they'll tell you that they can't do their work without whatever it is you wrote. And even though programming problems might ruin a game, ultimately the lion's share of the responsibility falls in to the designers' lap when it comes time to look for a new job.

Hope some or all of this is useful.
 

bluemax

Banned
sp0rsk said:
i dont suppose you could link us to a full on design document.

I have copy of um Chris Taylor's design doc template if you want it. They gave it too us in the video game production class I took.

As far as the topic on on hand my suggestions are the following:

1. Make games, of any kind 2D, 3D etc. Just make games that show off your ideas and ability to follow through on them. Failing that spend time making level mods with popular editors like Hammer and UE. Just like an artist you have to have a body of work to show off these days.

2. Try to work on at least one group project. Showing you can work in a team on a game is a nice thing to have. Probably not critical but since you're not gonna be working alone as a pro it's obviously nice.

3. Learn to write good design docs. As a CS major I can attest to the boringness of writing design docs, but they're a good thing to know how to do and really help for organizing ideas. The better your writing and communication skills in general the easier time you'll have but I guess this is true for most if not all jobs.

4. Make contacts. This I think is one place where a college program can help a lot. I've been able to talk to people from companies such as Activision, EA, Pandemic and a few others I think because of the program at my university. Obviously there are other ways to make contacts but a lot of companies are starting to build up internship programs and other ways of farming talent from universities.

5. Be prepared to work as a tester. A roommate of mine last year wanted to get in to the industry as a producer/designer (he wasn't sure which) and most of the companies he talked to told him that the best he could hope for was to start as a tester and work his way up or get a job at a non gaming company and change later. Now obviously this isn't the rule and this guy didn't put a lot of prep into deciding he wanted to go into the industry so for someone who starts sooner and works harder things could go differently. But hey even the great David Jaffe spent some time as a tester, so you never know.

Anywho good luck! Game design is a pretty tricky field to get into, makes me kinda glad I decided I wanted to be a programmer instead heh.
 

Vashu

Member
Ravid and Bluemax, thanks for your insights. They helped me strengthen my decision to follow the path I want to take. And don't worry, I've got almost everything covered. I did some focustesting for a Dutch gamedeveloper/publisher who seems to be growing and growing, even having their own stand at E3. It was really insightful and helped me learn a lot of stuff. I've already been working on my writing skills for the last 5 years, so that shouldn't be much of a problem.

If there is another problem I don't have, it's communication. I can convey my ideas pretty well, in both Dutch and English, and have some designdocuments in the works. Like I already said, I have a pretty good chance of being accepted into that study, mainly because I can write documents pretty well and know what I am talking about. That, and I'm currently leading a small four man team, although we did just start, to create some 2D game as a test.

I also made it perfectly clear to them (the people at college) that I intend to follow the director side a whole lot more, since that's where my strength lies. Having a vision so people can work with that, overseeing the project. But we'll see, I've got a whole lot of other ways to get where I want to get.
 
The reason why there are sooo many shitty games out there is that designers write instead of being hands on tuning their game.
They can't write a good story for shit but think they are awesome at it. It's sad.
Again, use whatever you can to make your own title/clone. That way you will learn.
Nintendo producers by the way have all been programmers, artists, level designers, control and camera tuning geniuses and they work their ass off. They have done it all. And when you talk about their projects with them, they even know the memory map of their game. Don't know what a memory map is? Get to work ;)
 

Campster

Do you like my tight white sweater? STOP STARING
dairladada said:
Again, use whatever you can to make your own title/clone. That way you will learn.

If you make a clone of something, you will be learning very, very little about game design.
 

Terrell

Member
Cheesemeister said:
Read this site from a long-time industry veteran who's written a bunch of advice for people asking the same questions you are:

http://www.sloperama.com/advice.html
I read almost every peice of advice on that page, and all that came across was "why are you even trying?"
Seriously, the guy who writes that needs a smack, since it reads as though he is intentionally discouraging you from entering the industry in any form.

It also inadvertantly explains why the industry has no innovation, since you have to work through 2-4 years of school and then 2 years doing grunt work for other people's ideas just to get to a point where someone will be willing to even pay attention to your design... and by that time, the ideas you had have likely already been done, and you have to try again after 4-6 years having the creativity bled out of you in favor of a desk job. Seriously, it's like we're being penalized because we weren't lucky enough to get into the industry back in the 1980s, when any group of 5 talentless schmoes could make a game company in their spare time. Now that those 5 talentless schmoes are in the door, they're trying to lock it behind them... lovely.
 

Campster

Do you like my tight white sweater? STOP STARING
Terrell said:
I read almost every peice of advice on that page, and all that came across was "why are you even trying?"
Seriously, the guy who writes that needs a smack, since it reads as though he is intentionally discouraging you from entering the industry in any form.

It also inadvertantly explains why the industry has no innovation, since you have to work through 2-4 years of school and then 2 years doing grunt work for other people's ideas just to get to a point where someone will be willing to even pay attention to your design... and by that time, the ideas you had have likely already been done, and you have to try again after 4-6 years having the creativity bled out of you in favor of a desk job. Seriously, it's like we're being penalized because we weren't lucky enough to get into the industry back in the 1980s, when any group of 5 talentless schmoes could make a game company in their spare time. Now that those 5 talentless schmoes are in the door, they're trying to lock it behind them... lovely.

I really don't think the old guard of designers are activley trying to prevent new blood from showing up. I think what it boils down to is that we have job that's in relatively low demand with a huge supply of people who think they are fit for it. As a result it's damned hard to get in.

Also, the severity of the outmoding problem depends on how actually innovative one's ideas are. If you're pining away for six years to do a first person shooter where you can walk on walls and the ceiling, but Prey beat you to the punch (And let's be honest here, it was done in Serious Sam's second episode before that, and other places even earlier) then it was really more of an eventuality of people messing with the established formula of an FPS. Taking a game and adding a mechanic or two does not game design make (assuming you're not EA).
 

Campster

Do you like my tight white sweater? STOP STARING
Billy Rygar said:
Actually thats wrong, but assume whatever.

I'm not assuming anything. You'll learn a lot about the development process; about coding a game and creating art content and how it all comes together and what it takes to finish a project. But how much will you learn about design?

If I tried to recreate Psycho shot for shot and line for line I'd learn a lot about the technical process of making a movie. I would learn nothing about the art of making a good film.

It's not a worthless endeavor entirely, especially if you've never finished a project before. But designing a new board game from scratch will teach you infinitely more about design than making a Galaga ripoff.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
soundwave05 said:
Not that I'm planning on enrolling in a "Game Design" course or anything, but I do wonder ... what's the process generally like for someone to become an actual game designer?

Not a programmer or artist, but the guy in charge of actually designing the game ... because it doesn't seem like guys like Miyamoto, Kojima, or Will Wright worked as game programmers and then just were promoted up to being designers.


Will Wright was definitely a programmer.
 
Campster said:
I'm not assuming anything. You'll learn a lot about the development process; about coding a game and creating art content and how it all comes together and what it takes to finish a project. But how much will you learn about design?

If I tried to recreate Psycho shot for shot and line for line I'd learn a lot about the technical process of making a movie. I would learn nothing about the art of making a good film.

It's not a worthless endeavor entirely, especially if you've never finished a project before. But designing a new board game from scratch will teach you infinitely more about design than making a Galaga ripoff.
You would learn about implementation, without which you will stuck with a bunch of ideas and concepts and no idea how to design them into a game. I realize that design (since I actually do it) is not merely a technical process, but if you haven't a clue about implentation your ideas are never going to amount to anything except a collection of documents in the "old" folder.
 

Luckett_X

Banned
I dont think he meant a clone of things down to the level design and total gameplay. I think he meant like a 2d platform game inspired by those of yore, and so forth. Which is what I plan on doing myself soon enough.

I guess I should be paying attention to all the other young hopefuls here, trying to clamber up the same slippery ladder as me, and decide which ones asses i need to kick, and who i should be trying to woo into my own court :D
 
If you think you will learn only about process and making code and art, then you should probably not be a game designer...
Take any Mario game (2d or 3d) and start to look very very closely at what happens when you push the jump button and how collision works and what actions mario can do. Look at the levels very closely. Look at how things are scaled.... You will start to see things you did not see before.
Now try to reproduce it and you will suddently see way way more. Same with Halo (Read the article about fps controls in Gamasutra, it will give you a hint of what to expect).
There is way more to game design than just saying: save the princess and please code this.
If you can't see it, too bad for you. You will probably never work at Nintendo.
 

Campster

Do you like my tight white sweater? STOP STARING
Billy Rygar said:
You would learn about implementation, without which you will stuck with a bunch of ideas and concepts and no idea how to design them into a game. I realize that design (since I actually do it) is not merely a technical process, but if you haven't a clue about implentation your ideas are never going to amount to anything except a collection of documents in the "old" folder.

Oh, no doubt implementation is important. And yeah, you'd learn tons of stuff about human/computer interactions, how to convey the operation and state of the system through presentation, lots of stuff that's critical for a designer to know.

But you'd learn this stuff just as easily implementing a game of your own design.
 
That's exactly why so many games suck at controls and camera. Same thing over and over. It's the difference between a good game designer and one that sucks. Learn from the best, don't expect it to fall on you like that. It won't.
Remembers me of that meeting I had once:
Designer with Programmer: We have implemented a Mario 64 camera in our game!
Miyamoto: Really, good! But there are 120 different camera types in Mario 64...
There is no way you will get it with your own game only. It's like saying you will know how to play guitar without playing any song from other artists!

When I say clone, i mean the gameplay, it can be in your game or a straight copy, it doesn't matter. But clone it.
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
I wasn't ever sure whether or not I wanted to be game designed. I'm still not sure. I'm still not sure if I even want to work in the gaming industry. But, I decided I should at some point.

Right now I work as a software engineer for a company where we do a lot of 3D graphics stuff. I designed my own puzzle game and my old roomate and I built it for GBA. I figure once I've built myself up as a software engineer I can get a job as such in the gaming industry for a company whose games I actually like, and then as we are making the game makes lots and lots of suggestions/game ideas/etc while it goes along and see where it goes from there.

I don't know that I'd ever want to give up being a software engineer though.
 
dairladada said:
When I say clone, i mean the gameplay, it can be in your game or a straight copy, it doesn't matter. But clone it.
Well it shouldn't be a straight clone. Copying gameplay is going to free up alot of time to work on tools design, learn about scheduling, risk assesment etc. And then when you actually implement your own design your time wont be taken up figuring this stuff out.
 
I don't think it will free up time. I think it will show you how complex things really are, at least on well designed games.
I'm just trying to show that there is more to game design than writting documents, schedules, stories etc. If you let the controls and cameras in the hands of people that don't know better, your beautiful idea will suck you will be much better of learning all this. And if you clone to learn, you will see why some get it and why some don't. And you will never stop learning.
 
dairladada said:
I don't think it will free up time. I think it will show you how complex things really are, at least on well designed games.
I'm just trying to show that there is more to game design than writting documents, schedules, stories etc. If you let the controls and cameras in the hands of people that don't know better, your beautiful idea will suck you will be much better of learning all this. And if you clone to learn, you will see why some get it and why some don't. And you will never stop learning.
Having good tools won't free up time? Are you sure you know what you're talking about?
 
lol.
That's not what I said. I said cloning will not free up time for you to look at tools. It will show you how deep the rabbit hole is.
Tools are crucial since they accelerate the iterative process necessary to all good game development. We need more tools!
I think I know what I am talking about, thanks.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
dairladada said:
That's exactly why so many games suck at controls and camera. Same thing over and over. It's the difference between a good game designer and one that sucks. Learn from the best, don't expect it to fall on you like that. It won't.
Remembers me of that meeting I had once:
Designer with Programmer: We have implemented a Mario 64 camera in our game!
Miyamoto: Really, good! But there are 120 different camera types in Mario 64...
There is no way you will get it with your own game only. It's like saying you will know how to play guitar without playing any song from other artists!

When I say clone, i mean the gameplay, it can be in your game or a straight copy, it doesn't matter. But clone it.


so how would one go about cloning a game.
 
You can start with any Mario 2d and flash.
Even if you just clone with animations, you will start to notice things like how Mario jumps, the progression curve the longer you keep the button pushed. How it perfectly matches tile sizes etc etc
Use whatever you can: Free Unreal engine, flash, Virtools, Bliz basic etc etc
There are tons of TOOLS out there.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
dairladada said:
You can start with any Mario 2d and flash.
Even if you just clone with animations, you will start to notice things like how Mario jumps, the progression curve the longer you keep the button pushed. How it perfectly matches tile sizes etc etc
Use whatever you can: Free Unreal engine, flash, Virtools, Bliz basic etc etc
There are tons of TOOLS out there.


how easy is it for one to learn unreal engine. to make a 2d game.

although i guess it would just be as simple as fixing a camera on a track and not assigning any 3d movement right? I think id be pretty good at level design, is using the unreal engine to do that pretty easy as well?

also i thought about making a game in flash, but i couldnt really find any good simple documents about making them. usually they would be in the back of a 2000 page book on flash
 
yes it sure can be a pain in the ...
I have used flash and multimedia fusion for 2d, virtools (Best for controls, camera prototypes), blitz, Unreal (Best for AI tests) for 3D... There are a lot of source code out there. It's a lot of research I understand but it is well worth it.

Xbox/Playstation joysticks with usb adapter with Virtools. Works well for filtering and approaches, dead zones tuning...
Of course it's better to work with your team's engine but hey, whatever works!
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
dairladada said:
yes it sure can be a pain in the ...
I have used flash and multimedia fusion for 2d, virtools (Best for controls, camera prototypes), blitz, Unreal (Best for AI tests) for 3D... There are a lot of source code out there. It's a lot of research I understand but it is well worth it.


you use whatsa whosa what? is there any good tutorial out there for someone who has no experience in this and just a little c++ experience?

help a brotha out here
 

element

Member
ahhh vark you make me laugh :) because it is so true. you forgot this one...
"i'm not artist, but wouldn't it be better if..."
 

Luckett_X

Banned
dairladada, i think youre just a bit too obsessed with and in awe of nintendo. Theyre not the be-all and end-all of everything. And studying the jump physics in Mario isn't going to open an amazing new universe of thought. For instance the collision detection in NSMB is pretty shoddy stuff ;)

sporsk, using unreal ed to make a 2d game is a bit of a waste really. Especially if you mean with 2d animations as well. The best way to make 2d games is with building block-like editors and tilesets. If youre not bothered by things 'not being hardcore programming', programs such as Multimedia Fusion from click team offer and wealth of opportunity for 2d games. Homebrew stuff for GBA is also a good stepping stone to learn about console limitations and palettes.

I also would like to make stuff in Flash, but I think i've come to accept that coding just aint my scene. I just need to find a menagerie of human work-slaves for that privelage :D
 
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