demigod
Member
Spot on.Jokes on you, because they'll just play their favorite card...
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Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
viveks86
Gold Member
This makes sense to me. And I'm willing to attest that Kacho ain't no Xbot no more. He was Pony-fied long ago so this whole debate is kinda moot.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Kacho
Member
Nope. The only thing equivalent to a release like Yotei is Outer Worlds 2 but that's not Bethesda. You can't cancel something like an Indy expansion. It already came and went.
Punished Miku
Banned
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But you could advocate for other people not to play Indy at all. And you could advocate for others not to download and play the Indy Expansion that's on GamePass. Well......you could push and communicate for people to not use GamePass until Microsoft fires and corrects the record for the things some of their devs have said and down on social media around the Charlie Kirk stuff.
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Punished Miku
Banned
So what you're saying is they need to cancel PS+ also? This constant escalation must stop guys.
FalsettoVibe
Member
But those are not the buzz topics everyone is talking about at the moment. Gotta jump on the bandwagon with the currently hot thing.
Especially the hot thing that they probably weren't even gonna buy anyway.
Kacho
Member
I strongly recommend you don't play Indy or use Game Pass
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
No, I'm not saying that
. But I'm also not the one telling people that they shouldn't buy a game because an employee said something that could be viewed as disrespectful.
Sethbacca
Member
Well now they're extra not gonna buy it.But those are not the buzz topics everyone is talking about at the moment. Gotta jump on the bandwagon with the currently hot thing.
Especially the hot thing that they probably weren't even gonna buy anyway.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
"Sir do you know why I've pulled you over?"
"Gamepass isn't even profitable!"
"uhh you were speeding sir"
"I hope you keep this same energy for Phil Spencer!"
"I'm issuing you a ticket sir"
"Adamsapple is behind this, I just know it!"
"Sir step out of the vehicle"
"I'm going to leave a laughing emoji on your ticket! PSSR is just as good as DLSS!"
Idk how some of you guys function in society. You look at the well deserved backlash to this and immediately think it's about dumb fucking console wars. Yeah, Elon Musk is pissed because he's secretly a huge Xbot.
Punished Miku
Banned
Criticizing cancel culture on the right and the left is a logically consistent position. That's what I've done pretty much from 2012 - present day. Many instances of it were criticized even earlier when it wasn't called cancel culture.No, I'm not saying that
Criticizing cancel culture for not also going after MS and Gamepass is genuinely a new (and hilarious) front of the console wars that I never expected. You're breaking new ground.
Boycotting products is 100% fine with me. Buy what you want.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Hold on… So you're saying:
- When gamers boycott Ghost of Yotei because of something a developer said, that's considered fine and makes sense.
- But if gamers do the same thing by boycotting another game owned by Microsoft because that developer was (at least in your view) disrespectful toward Kirk, that would somehow be "odd" and "hilarious"?
Punished Miku
Banned
Boycotting anything is fundamentally peaceful and I'm personally fine with it. Spend your money where you want. That's not the same thing as cancel culture. Boycott whatever you want. No one is owed your purchase.
I actually never once have spoken about this boycott because I don't care what people here buy. I have criticized cancel culture, multiple times. I was 100% fine with people choosing to boycott Tesla. Buy whatever you want. Doesn't mean I agree with every right wing boycott out there, but they have the right to do it. I didn't criticize anyone for choosing to not buy Bud Light and I didn't call it cancel culture.
What I was mostly making fun of here is you clearly not being comfortable with this boycott, but wanting to add MS just to console war. It's just funny. People process things in different ways I guess.
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PropellerEar
Member
Kacho
Member
Microsoft (Bethesda) was actively promoting Indy...
Yep and the deleted the tweet. They haven't tweeted since. Now what?
viveks86
Gold Member
I can see a reason why. A boycott needs to be targeted and meaningful to be effective. This isn't some widespread movement that has gained sufficient mass to go after everything out there. Like
Kacho
said, if this issue is still relevant when Bethesda announces a new game, I'm sure the likes of Grummz or Asmongold will be all over it. A boycott needs to be impactful to be effective. Niche stuff and DLCs for games already bought isn't that. And even there, Bethesda already got drowned by negative comments after that tasteless Indy tweet. But are they going to go after Indy specifically? Not unless MachineGames runs their mouth. He has a point.Except a few edge cases, I don't think this has anything to do with console wars. No one is going after Naughty Dog right now even though they are probably the most woke studio in Sony's portfolio. It's because they've kept their mouth shut about it (as far as I know). Good for them. I'm sure Neil is watching trash talking Tati like a hawk at this point.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I'm okay with people boycotting this game. I just wish we could have a thread on GAF about Sony first-party games that are reasonable and not turned into political fights every single time. Is that too much to ask?
Punished Miku
Banned
Not at all. Similar problem at REEE when they set their sites on a game. Similar shit happened with Avowed. My advice is just ignore every thread but the OT. Especially ignore the Review Thread. Just how it is.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Microsoft (Bethesda) was actively promoting Indy...
What is Grummz asking us to see here? I don't notice anything.
We 100% agree here. It's sad, but it is what it is.
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Kacho
Member
Well said. You understand. Some people think this is about console wars because that's their entire identity.I can see a reason why. A boycott needs to be targeted and meaningful to be effective. This isn't some widespread movement that has gained sufficient mass to go after everything out there. Like
Except a few edge cases, I don't think this has anything to do with console wars. No one is going after Naughty Dog right now even though they are probably the most woke studio in Sony's portfolio. It's because they've kept their mouth shut about it (as far as I know). Good for them. I'm sure Neil is watching trash talking Tati like a hawk at this point.
PropellerEar
Member
They were promoting their game with grave dancing and joking about the murder.
PropellerEar
Member
You need to look it up from the twitter thread, Bethesda panic deleted the video.
Tldr in the post above
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Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
There's this weird sentiment going around that the right shouldn't support "cancel culture" because they were against it during Me Too/BLM. This is a child's argument. It's not considering the stark difference between:
Situation A
Woman on X: "This man sexually harassed me" (Result: man is dragged through the mud on X and other social media platforms and fired, despite it not being proven or clear that what the woman said was true or if the action justified the consequence)
Situation B
Woman on X: "I celebrate and encourage the murder of those I don't agree with."
It's perfectly fine to condemn cancel culture in the first case, but support it in the second. Just like it's perfectly reasonable to be against violence in the forms of murder, assault, rape, but for it in the case of self defense. Only a child would argue that you can't support violence in every single form imaginable (e.g. self defense) just because you said "I'm against violence."
Situation A
Woman on X: "This man sexually harassed me" (Result: man is dragged through the mud on X and other social media platforms and fired, despite it not being proven or clear that what the woman said was true or if the action justified the consequence)
Situation B
Woman on X: "I celebrate and encourage the murder of those I don't agree with."
It's perfectly fine to condemn cancel culture in the first case, but support it in the second. Just like it's perfectly reasonable to be against violence in the forms of murder, assault, rape, but for it in the case of self defense. Only a child would argue that you can't support violence in every single form imaginable (e.g. self defense) just because you said "I'm against violence."
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demigod
Member
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Bro, I'm sorry to tell you this.....but this isn't logical thinking at all. They are both the same concept. It's just that you relate to Situation B more and side with it. That's all. Also, are we all sure people encourage the murder in situation B? Or are some of those people saying that there are results to the type of energy you put out in the world?
There's more nuance here that you are skipping over, due to your bias. Naturally, you have these biases, by the way. You're not weird. But think through it some more.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I personally find whole "cancel culture" or "boycotting" just complete nonsense.
I don't give rat ass about dev's personal life or beliefs and politics, if the game looks good and I like what I see then I will buy that game no matter what…I'm not gonna stop buying games I like based on politic or social media nonsense.
I don't give rat ass about dev's personal life or beliefs and politics, if the game looks good and I like what I see then I will buy that game no matter what…I'm not gonna stop buying games I like based on politic or social media nonsense.
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Sethbacca
Member
The video of a game made multiple months/years ago well before the events of the last couple of weeks contains a character who for multiple decades has been known for fighting Nazis and Fascists saying to the cat that "You don't care much about these fascists, do ya?", and then they're big mad because they're somehow making that out to be about their boy.
It's a reach at best.
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
What about "consequence culture" ?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But the Indy game and literally IP is about fighting Nazis and Fascists. Am I missing something? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
And wouldn't some of these people be labeling Charlie Kirk a fascist if they believe that video was about him and not the game characters in the Indy game?
Sethbacca
Member
You're missing absolutely nothing other than a circlejerk of stupidity.But the Indy game and literally IP is about fighting Nazis and Fascists. Am I missing something? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
And wouldn't some of these people be labeling Charlie Kirk a fascist if they believe that video was about him and not the game characters in the Indy game?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Don't care….when it comes to games, the only thing I care about is if the game is for my taste or not…..all other thing outside of that is just noise.
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Zacfoldor
Gold Member
You are correct, imho. This sentiment is born from gleefully facile ignorance imho.
It is not hypocrisy to hold people to the standards they demanded from others. It is accountability, the opposite of hypocrisy.
Punished Miku
Banned
Controversial stuff apparently.
PropellerEar
Member
this is what these nuts have been labeling him as, and the post and it's timing is not a coincidence.But the Indy game and literally IP is about fighting Nazis and Fascists. Am I missing something? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
And wouldn't some of these people be labeling Charlie Kirk a fascist if they believe that video was about him and not the game characters in the Indy game?
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Punished Miku
Banned
"A fascist is an adherent of fascism, a political ideology and mass movement characterized by extreme nationalism, authoritarianism, and a dictatorial leader. Fascists reject democratic and liberal values and often prioritize the perceived interests of the nation or race above individual rights."
Just so we're all clear on what terms we're upset about. Do we have to change it to something less offensive, like democratically challenged?
viveks86
Gold Member
What if I made a game you like, a masterpiece that fits your tastes, but I'm also a serial killer? Would you buy it?
Purely hypothetical. I don't make games
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PropellerEar
Member
Why are you upset about the term?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I would say the serial killer should be arrested but………I still buy that game.What if I made a game you like, a masterpiece that fits your tastes, but I'm also a serial killer? Would you buy it?
Purely hypothetical. I don't make games
Punished Miku
Banned
I'm not?
viveks86
Gold Member
Fair enough. That's a consistent position.
PropellerEar
Member
You kind of implied "youse" were/was.
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ProtoByte
Banned
Well rightly so, they fired the dev. A stated condemnation at this point would be nice, but ultimately insubstantial. Unless you expect PS to sweep the entire organization of far leftists tomorrow, you should understand that the words are mostly PR.
I wish we could focus solely on the fact that people won't buy Ghost of Yotei because it looks lame af.
I wish we could focus solely on the fact that people won't buy Ghost of Yotei because it looks lame af.
Punished Miku
Banned
Just a figure of speech, but yeah fair enough.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why would you assume he's upset with the term?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I'm starting to think it's possible that some people are afraid that it might sell well, so they are jumping on this "controversy" to sway people's opinion on the game.
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