So being smug is the qualifier needed for having not only you, but even your film cast harassed?
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'Ghostbusters' maker: Once upon a time, I loved the internet
- Thread starter chillybright
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So being smug is the qualifier needed for having not only you, but even your film cast harassed?
He has the "smug air about him" equivalent of resting bitch face. I don't think he's really like that, but by default he always seems to look like it.
Fail State
Banned
Yeah, Spy was also an R rating and it worked very well for me (again Katie writing, Paul directing). Katie wrote a bunch of really good Parks and Rec episodes though, so she doesn't really need to R to be great.
He should have said he just wouldn't have done the movie.
Yes, there was a LOT of sexism and racism involved with the trolling of this movie before it came out. But on the other hand there was a LOT of people who just felt this was looked like a bad idea and everything shown of the movie before release was justified to criticize. In the end, it was a terrible movie in nearly every sense of the word.
He can justify it with his words, but it doesn't change the fact, it was a bad film.
Yes, there was a LOT of sexism and racism involved with the trolling of this movie before it came out. But on the other hand there was a LOT of people who just felt this was looked like a bad idea and everything shown of the movie before release was justified to criticize. In the end, it was a terrible movie in nearly every sense of the word.
He can justify it with his words, but it doesn't change the fact, it was a bad film.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
I guess cosplay counts as being inspired. You know, rather than actually well written characters and not joke delivery caricatures. Also /little girls/, /inspired/. Huh?
NYR
Member
This is likely the most reasonable statement made in this thread and I agree with it 100%.
Yeah i felt like it tried too hard. I think if they had let the ladies kinda improv it the movie woulda came out better.
http://variety.com/2016/film/news/mattel-strong-ghostbusters-toy-sales-1201820557/
Toy sales did fine apparently, it would follow that costume sales would as well.
This is equivalent to saying that the people complaining of "censorship" in video games will stop bitching when a game sells incredibly well and is well reviewed. This happens all the time. They don't admit defeat, they don't quiet down. If anything they get louder.
It's always fun to have a scapegoat. Ghostbusters for some unfathomable reason got a lot of anti-women hate (seriously, who the hell thought Ghostbusters of all things would be the thing the entire internet got up in arms about?), so now the film actually being a bad film doesn't matter anymore. The thing the makers are taking home after this is that the internet is terrible and you should never listen to haters.
I saw a bunch of girls last Halloween in Salem, Massachusetts.
Do you honestly need documented evidence to believe some kids liked it?
I've met the guy. He was quite nice and charming when we talked in Boston.
I also think the movie was genuinely bad but I don't know if I'd call him smug.
CloudyTuba
Member
So he learned not to feed the trolls. I guess he had to figure it out eventually. Pretty late but better than never. Always better to let people like that just rot alone in their corner of the internet and continue on your merry way. Engaging them only gives them power.
The most accurate assessment of this movie that I ever read was that it's a poor movie that, when all was said and done, was not even be worth all the commotion in the first place.
All that controversy over what was just another abysmal blip on the radar remake. People will remember the media coverage more than they'll remember the actual movie.
I do hope he learns the right lesson here. When he says he'll be ignoring the haters, I hope he means specifically the unreasonable people like the sexist trolls, and not necessarily all people who are critical of the movie. Because it deserves a lot of criticism. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Those guys were assholes but your movie sucked too, Kev. Plenty of people figured that out from the trailers before release. I'm one of those 'dislikes' too, and that's because it looked like shit.
Yeah there were a lot of sexist assholes causing a big raucous, and by all means ignore them next time around. That was some shit.
The most accurate assessment of this movie that I ever read was that it's a poor movie that, when all was said and done, was not even be worth all the commotion in the first place.
All that controversy over what was just another abysmal blip on the radar remake. People will remember the media coverage more than they'll remember the actual movie.
I do hope he learns the right lesson here. When he says he'll be ignoring the haters, I hope he means specifically the unreasonable people like the sexist trolls, and not necessarily all people who are critical of the movie. Because it deserves a lot of criticism. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Those guys were assholes but your movie sucked too, Kev. Plenty of people figured that out from the trailers before release. I'm one of those 'dislikes' too, and that's because it looked like shit.
Yeah there were a lot of sexist assholes causing a big raucous, and by all means ignore them next time around. That was some shit.
I believe this. If there's one thing that trolls are known for, it's admitting when they're wrong and letting things go.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Power cells have a half life of 5,000 years.
Maybe this wouldn't be the takeaway if the haters weren't demonstrably racist and sexist.
Nor if people didn't excuse the racism and sexism with "But the movie was bad."
SillyEskimo
Member
Feig needs a safe space
stuminus3
Member
I feel the same way about nerd culture in general. I used to think we were the enlightened. These last few years have been a real eye opener.
https://youtu.be/YR7LWcLDfQs
https://youtu.be/YR7LWcLDfQs
Sometimes I wonder if people on GAF have any experience talking to real human beings in real life.
Count Dookkake
Member
I wonder if there is a lot of overlap between the folks who like this remake and those that like My Sex Junk.
starchild excalibur
Member
That's true. I never really watched Parks and Rec and always forget she was involved in that. Many aspects of the humor in Ghostbusters just felt really thinly sketched out. Like I can imagine the script having sections that say, "[The actors adlib here for a minute]."
It did. As much as some hardcore Ghostbusters fans would like to take credit for the film not doing well, it's failure was more due to a super high production budget for a film that's more comedy than action, and not enough good word of mouth from the viewers that did go. If this film saw not one cent from Ghostbusters fans, but saturated general audiences' interests, it could easily have done hundreds of millions more in revenue.
Ghostbusters fans for all the bloviating some of them did, didn't doom this film because their numbers aren't as impactful as they like to think they are.
This was very small and insignificant until the trailers came out and people started getting attacked for saying the trailers looked bad. That made the tiny negative reaction explode 100,000x.
It failed because of all the negativity swirling around it leading up to and at the time of release. That negativity originated with raging fanboys upset at an all-woman cast, and was of course made worse when Paul Feig engaged them.
If it had been released without all that negativity in the air, and better marketing, it may have done moderately well.
Yes there is. The guy is solely talking about everything except the fact that he made a bad movie. Own it. Admit he should have done some thing's differently.
No it's not. There's nothing in those quotes about trying to justify his movie's quality. All of these comments in this thread read like "if the movie was good, maybe he wouldn't have been harassed as much", which is gross.
Feig is talking about how his relationship to the Internet changed after being harassed. Nothing about a revisionist view of his movie's quality. This thread made it about that from the first post. Not him.
Wow. No it wasn't. I mean the clamor got deafening when the first trailer released, but the bitching about the reboot before that was definitely not "very small".
Ugh.
Lord of Castamere
Member
It wasn't just that. It was some of the comments too. Like handwaving all criticism, and negative feedback in general, onto the gender trolls and such, when the movie didn't look good, and ended up not being that good, but, no, the harassment was bad, of course. There is a big deference between criticism and toxicity. Death threats and all that, bad stuff.
Well, this is the correct takeaway regardless of circumstances.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I mean, whether the movie is good or not is 100% beside the point of this article, because it's specifically referring to the pre-release abuse, and even more precisely, his mistake in choosing to not only acknowledge, but respond to a guy practicing the misogynistic harassment that the movie tended to be a magnet for.
The focus of the article (which is maybe 2 grafs longer than what's quoted in the OP, if that) is entirely on the pre-release bullshit. The movie's quality doesn't factor into it.
There is no scenario in which the quality of the film (which, by the way, wasn't very high at all) somehow forgives or explains that pre-release reaction, and it definitely has nothing to do with the specifically sexist/misogynist reactions to its mere existence, which is what Feig is talking about repsonding to in that article.
I don't know why people still care to exert themselves in ensuring people minimize or in some cases, flat out erase the importance of that immediately sexist reaction to the film's announcement, pre-production, and production. Especially in response to an article about a guy who says his main regret is even attempting to engage with that bullshit.
The focus of the article (which is maybe 2 grafs longer than what's quoted in the OP, if that) is entirely on the pre-release bullshit. The movie's quality doesn't factor into it.
There is no scenario in which the quality of the film (which, by the way, wasn't very high at all) somehow forgives or explains that pre-release reaction, and it definitely has nothing to do with the specifically sexist/misogynist reactions to its mere existence, which is what Feig is talking about repsonding to in that article.
I don't know why people still care to exert themselves in ensuring people minimize or in some cases, flat out erase the importance of that immediately sexist reaction to the film's announcement, pre-production, and production. Especially in response to an article about a guy who says his main regret is even attempting to engage with that bullshit.
No. They actually went on record it is okay to hate the movie when you watched it. They were fine with criticism. There were many reviews which were negative and noone considers them racist, sexist and whatsnot.
If you confuse harrassment with criticism, you might have an issue.
No.
It wasn't a tiny and insignificant reaction.
It was the driving force behind the film's outright negative reaction until the trailers came out.
It had to have been, because there was nothing else to go on for the "normal people" to judge at that point.
When the trailers did come out, what happened in terms of the sexist assholes was simple co-opting; say that the real reason for the fervor was that the trailer was bad. Same fucking Gamergate, different fucking medium. Ethics in gaming journalism became ethics in film quality.
Of course, like with ethics in games journalism, the existence of the sexism never actually barred anyone from disliking the trailer on its own merits. I did. However, strangely enough, I never felt attacked or thrown under the bus by people pointing out "Hey, there's an obviously sexist bent to the overwhelmingly negative reaction to this trailer. It ultimately looks like any other shitty reboot that has ever existed but it's being overtaken by a historical downvote and harassment campaign. What's up with that?"
And instead of being like, "Yeah, that's shitty, and my fellow male nerds doing it are a fucking embarrassment to humanity," instead a good deal of men got shook and instead insisted "Why are you calling ME sexist?! I'M not sexist! I just don't like this terrible looking film!"
Doth protested too much.
It's like Moviebob said: If you've got (had) a problem with Obama's drone policies despite the context that simultaneously existed that America also had a problem with Obama because he's black, and you wanted to address your issues with the drone policies, maybe don't protest at the same time, in the same place, or in as a similar manner as the fucking KKK.
The goddamn fucking sexism and racism have nothing to do with how bad the movie is.
This attitude right here is why black people and women constantly say nerd culture is garbage.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
If your gonna cosplay you clearly loved the character. Just because you found no value in the new Ghostbusters characters doesn't mean everyone, especially women, felt the same.
excelsiorlef
Member
1) There was a sexist and even a times racist attack on this movie
2) If you aren't one of them... 1) isn't about you
3) If you are 2) not you aren't a victim because people are talking a lot about 1) because
4) No one really cares if you hate the movie.
2) If you aren't one of them... 1) isn't about you
3) If you are 2) not you aren't a victim because people are talking a lot about 1) because
4) No one really cares if you hate the movie.
old manatee
Banned
I feel like it matters in the sense that there wasn't a huge built-in defense force to shut down the sexist racist trolls. The Force Awakens diversity backlash never reached the same fever pitch, and I think it's​ because the movie was decent, and a lot of people were passionate enough to go to bat for it.
nkarafo
Member
Depends on what do you mean when you say the idea though.
They treated Ghostbusters as a profession. Nothing wrong with that but by making them female it meant you couldn't have the same characters anymore (characters, not actors). So no Peter, Rey, Winston, Egon. They needed to make new characters from scratch.
I personally thought that was a bad idea about a Ghostbusters movie because most fans loved the characters, not the profession.
So basically, it goes like this IMO:
Not liking the idea just because they are now women = shameful.
Not liking the idea because, since they are women, they can't be the same characters = ok IMO.
.how good it was was beside the point here, because the reactions the thread are about were pretty much on display before we saw a thing.
It's a shame this movie was middling, because it gives some people the excuse they were hoping for and clouds the fact that there are plenty of people who legitimately gave it a chance and just didn't find it to be a good movie.
lol
That's ridiculous, and just a way to try to reframe the shame
It's a shame this movie was middling, because it gives some people the excuse they were hoping for and clouds the fact that there are plenty of people who legitimately gave it a chance and just didn't find it to be a good movie.
lol
That's ridiculous, and just a way to try to reframe the shame
Kite
Member
lol What do you mean? People with love cringe, or people who feel obligated to defend stuff cus they support the message even if the actual product is terrible?
What makes a huge difference is that a allfemale cast was the prerelease talking point for Ghostbusters. Star Wars was obviously never in that position.
Ugh, I really hate the idea of these films. A film about a gang of female thieves with an original premise could be really cool! Hollywood is creatively bankrupt though, so instead we get "It's _____ but with women!" Them being women should be incidental, not some tacky selling point.
That said, the trolling and controversy of this movie got way out of hand and that shit ain't cool.
If you're about to type a post to the effect of "Your movie was shit, therefore you deserved to be harrassed", don't. Just don't. Go outside. Listen to birds chirp. Eat a cannoli. Swing on a swing-set. Watch a Cavs game with some people you've never met before. Listen to this Lil' Uzi all the kids these days talk about. Sit on some grass. Watch clouds.
Literally just do anything but that, you goddamn prick.
Literally just do anything but that, you goddamn prick.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This was almost always the place at which pre-release Ghostbusters conversations broke down:
Guys got pretty insecure about the notion their legitimate complaints about the film's possibilities were going to be mixed into the sexist/misogynist backlash to the film's mere existence. So instead of simply sticking to their guns, and making a point if/when the sexism aspect came up, to decry it and criticize those aspects being brought to bear on the discussion, they chose instead to argue against sexism/misogyny being a concern at all.
They chose to make a case for the sexism being weaponized against the film as being imaginary or ridiculously overinflated.
At which point it became a fight over basic observation and reality.
FOR EXAMPLE:
"This movie looks bad."
"Does it look bad because it looks bad, or because you don't like that they're girls"
How you COULD have responded:
"No, that sexism horseshit is awful and the little boys clinging to it need to fuck themselves. But I think it looks bad because X, Y, Z (Leslie Jones, cinematography, bad lines in the trailers)"
How many people CHOSE to respond:
"I'm not a sexist how dare you not only am I not a sexist but nobody's even really being sexist and to say people are being sexist is fucking stupid and you're just looking for a reason to dismiss me and I will not be dismissed so easily, I will not be ignored, Dan! Maybe you should just accept that it looks stupid because it looks stupid and stop trying to make up reasons besides that and condemn fine upstanding young men as sexist when they don't deserve it"
This thread's knee jerked hard the millisecond the little rubber hammer hit the skin.
Guys got pretty insecure about the notion their legitimate complaints about the film's possibilities were going to be mixed into the sexist/misogynist backlash to the film's mere existence. So instead of simply sticking to their guns, and making a point if/when the sexism aspect came up, to decry it and criticize those aspects being brought to bear on the discussion, they chose instead to argue against sexism/misogyny being a concern at all.
They chose to make a case for the sexism being weaponized against the film as being imaginary or ridiculously overinflated.
At which point it became a fight over basic observation and reality.
FOR EXAMPLE:
"This movie looks bad."
"Does it look bad because it looks bad, or because you don't like that they're girls"
How you COULD have responded:
"No, that sexism horseshit is awful and the little boys clinging to it need to fuck themselves. But I think it looks bad because X, Y, Z (Leslie Jones, cinematography, bad lines in the trailers)"
How many people CHOSE to respond:
"I'm not a sexist how dare you not only am I not a sexist but nobody's even really being sexist and to say people are being sexist is fucking stupid and you're just looking for a reason to dismiss me and I will not be dismissed so easily, I will not be ignored, Dan! Maybe you should just accept that it looks stupid because it looks stupid and stop trying to make up reasons besides that and condemn fine upstanding young men as sexist when they don't deserve it"
This thread's knee jerked hard the millisecond the little rubber hammer hit the skin.
starchild excalibur
Member
It was different because there was less of an overlap in its core audience with people who were opposed to the diversity as there was in the Ghostbusters audience of people who - even if they didn't care either way about the actors being women - could not accept the movie not starring the [living] Ghostbusters.
James Rolfe fell into that latter category of "If this Ghostbusters remake isn't going to be what I've been pining for for decades, then it's utter trash."
Star Wars is also a larger and more international audience, I would guess, than Ghostbusters is. Star Wars is also an expansive series with several main characters across several iterations. Ghostbusters fans were so used to having their main 4 dudes that many of them were unwilling to even contemplate a film that didn't include those characters. Or at best, demanded some extraneous "handing of the torch"-type scene before they would ever consider their replacements legit in their own right.
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