maquiladora
Member
And vertex performance, iirc.
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GI.biz: "Wii U less powerful than PS3, Xbox 360, developers say"
- Thread starter Hoo-doo
- Start date
And vertex performance, iirc.
Hero of Canton
Member
So here's the bit I don't get:
One - how exactly can it do more? Genuinely curious.
Two - even if it can, this is two separate devices we're talking about. Developers aren't going to use such a feature as standard - if anything, it'd be used for optional extras or gimmicks. No one is going to support two devices for anything beyond that because it limits the audience to those who own both PS3 and Vita. Whereas with Wii U the second screen is an integral feature that everyone will be able to use.
So Wii U may not be "a unique play experience" per se, but it will offer plenty of them because very few games will use the PS3/Vita connectivity outside things like Motorstorm RC - and that's just cross-platform syncing. How many games used PS3-PSP connectivity? Granted, Vita offers greater functionality in that respect, but I don't see why anyone would seriously suggest that as a negative for Wii U - unless they were either trolling or just too stupid to realise all of the above.
One - how exactly can it do more? Genuinely curious.
Two - even if it can, this is two separate devices we're talking about. Developers aren't going to use such a feature as standard - if anything, it'd be used for optional extras or gimmicks. No one is going to support two devices for anything beyond that because it limits the audience to those who own both PS3 and Vita. Whereas with Wii U the second screen is an integral feature that everyone will be able to use.
So Wii U may not be "a unique play experience" per se, but it will offer plenty of them because very few games will use the PS3/Vita connectivity outside things like Motorstorm RC - and that's just cross-platform syncing. How many games used PS3-PSP connectivity? Granted, Vita offers greater functionality in that respect, but I don't see why anyone would seriously suggest that as a negative for Wii U - unless they were either trolling or just too stupid to realise all of the above.
The PSP's resolution is higher than the top screen resolution of the 3DS, so there's that.
Any talk of using the PS3 and Vita as some sort of Wii U combo device is absurd. Developers won't support it and audiences won't adopt it en masse.
The Wii U is in a ballpark of it's own, whether that ballpark is destined to be a successful one is another matter. I don't necessarily think exact hardware power is too much of an issue in that respect, considering the Wii, and considering the Wii U will be HD compatible.
I don't think developers will be particularly ecstatic about the hardware specs though, unless they're especially hesitant to move over onto newer hardware.
The Wii U is in a ballpark of it's own, whether that ballpark is destined to be a successful one is another matter. I don't necessarily think exact hardware power is too much of an issue in that respect, considering the Wii, and considering the Wii U will be HD compatible.
I don't think developers will be particularly ecstatic about the hardware specs though, unless they're especially hesitant to move over onto newer hardware.
I'm suprised people are still speculating on this so much, the most common bits of information seem to indicate that the wii U is to the xbox 360 what the wii was to the gamecube. That is, slightly more powerful but not a huge leap above it.
It's got a CPU that's pretty much the same as an xbox (I'm sure for patent reasons it can't be 100% identical) and a GPU that's probably where the xbox 360 would be had it come out in 2007 instead of 2005. Also, it's been all but confirmed the system has more RAM, no real number has been tossed about but I'd say it's a pretty safe guess that it has 1 gig of memory, might not be universal like the 360's or split 50/50 like the ps3's but I'd bet money on 1 gig.
This latest batch of rumors almost makes sense even considering the above, there's no hard drive on the wii U unlike the ps3 and 360 and even 1 gig of memory won't alleviate some of the issues that crop up by not having installs. Instead developers porting content from ps3/360 have to find ways of getting around whatever the access time is on nintendos HDDVD roms (let's be honest here, that's basically what they are) I'd imagine it's just a learning curve thing- these are developers after all who have been making games on the big 2 for 5 + years now and they finally know how to max out the 2 consoles and cheat around their short comings. The same won't be true for wii U since the developers with devkits have had alpha kits with rapid updates for only a year or 2 , I wouldn't even be suprised if the current devkit is less powerful than an earlier model , after the 3DS debacle last year I would be surprised if nintendo didn't downgrade whatever they intended to maximize profit from day 1. At some point the console was likely aiming for double the power of the competition as a ballpark guess, but as it got closer to release and final prices were discussed something closer to a 10-50% improvement (depending on the engine) is much more realistic.
If ALL the rumors are to be believed, this console is coming in november , if nintendo follows tradition it will launch for 249.99 and come with a single tablet as well as possibly wii party U. It will not cost anymore then that, and you can bet your ass there will be first party software available early on (launch window) that will look just as good as the best stuff on xbox and ps3 , they won't have much choice.
So essentially I don't get the worry. I can't honestly see that nintendo would release a new games console in 2012 that wasn't AT LEAST as capable as the ps3/360 are. If this threads rumors have any truth at all to them , it would be that developers are finding it hard to push the console since they can't use all of the same tricks.
It's got a CPU that's pretty much the same as an xbox (I'm sure for patent reasons it can't be 100% identical) and a GPU that's probably where the xbox 360 would be had it come out in 2007 instead of 2005. Also, it's been all but confirmed the system has more RAM, no real number has been tossed about but I'd say it's a pretty safe guess that it has 1 gig of memory, might not be universal like the 360's or split 50/50 like the ps3's but I'd bet money on 1 gig.
This latest batch of rumors almost makes sense even considering the above, there's no hard drive on the wii U unlike the ps3 and 360 and even 1 gig of memory won't alleviate some of the issues that crop up by not having installs. Instead developers porting content from ps3/360 have to find ways of getting around whatever the access time is on nintendos HDDVD roms (let's be honest here, that's basically what they are) I'd imagine it's just a learning curve thing- these are developers after all who have been making games on the big 2 for 5 + years now and they finally know how to max out the 2 consoles and cheat around their short comings. The same won't be true for wii U since the developers with devkits have had alpha kits with rapid updates for only a year or 2 , I wouldn't even be suprised if the current devkit is less powerful than an earlier model , after the 3DS debacle last year I would be surprised if nintendo didn't downgrade whatever they intended to maximize profit from day 1. At some point the console was likely aiming for double the power of the competition as a ballpark guess, but as it got closer to release and final prices were discussed something closer to a 10-50% improvement (depending on the engine) is much more realistic.
If ALL the rumors are to be believed, this console is coming in november , if nintendo follows tradition it will launch for 249.99 and come with a single tablet as well as possibly wii party U. It will not cost anymore then that, and you can bet your ass there will be first party software available early on (launch window) that will look just as good as the best stuff on xbox and ps3 , they won't have much choice.
So essentially I don't get the worry. I can't honestly see that nintendo would release a new games console in 2012 that wasn't AT LEAST as capable as the ps3/360 are. If this threads rumors have any truth at all to them , it would be that developers are finding it hard to push the console since they can't use all of the same tricks.
AndyMoogle
Member
PSP resolution = 480 × 272 = 130560 pixels
3DS resolution = (400 × 240) + (320 x 240) = 172800 pixels
Only apparent resolution, though. The screen is in reality 800x240 (+320x240).
Can you back that up?
and the PSP is slightly more comfortable
I swear people really don't realize how much the geometry is cheap in 3ds games, especially for backgrounds... Just add a pretty model and fancy shaders in front and everyone forget the ps1/psp geometry all around.
And, just to prove i'm not biased, that's exactly for the same reason WiiU games will still impress, don't worry!
Are you willing to pay $599 for the alternative? People seem to be forgetting the hundreds of dollars difference in the prices of consoles this generation.
H_Prestige
Banned
Bottom screen doesn't increase the resolution of the top screen.
You can't just add the resolution of the screens together, but I do agree it's an important distinction to make.
But the main screen being smaller has brought "problems" to dev teams. For example, Project Mirai is chibi like because regular Miku looked too small in regular proportions.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Thank you gentlemen (and ladies?) I can already feel some of the tension leaving the room.
Now.
Do we have any idea who said this? Under what context? Even a blip?
What kind of game are they working on? Does it use the tablet extensively?
And what does it mean to you if its true?
We can actually discuss the article without always going back to the "LOL!" "NUH!" level arguments. Doesn't mean much to me. I still have fun playing 2002 PC games.
Games make me decide what I'm buying, but I'm not going to act like I don't have my own proclivities. I really do enjoy Nintendo titles. Marios, Smashes, Kirbs, Karts, Legends. I can't really go without. I'm always thinking "Need to play it." When they announce them. There's still a child in me that gets giddy when he hears the Mario theme, or Zelda's Lullaby.
I make no apologies for that emotional childish response. But there is still a techie in me. I do enjoy talking about the hardware power housed in these systems. Getting a system on par with the PS3 at a size marginally larger than a Wii is impressive. Just as housing a 360 in the 360s casing was.
Console hardware is unique. They have a much smaller TDP to design under even when talking cases like the OG PS3. I still struggle to see how Sony or MS can design systems under current limitations at a "generational leap standard". Without using billions to do so. Which might be exactly what they are doing.
It's a losing battle, one that could significantly harm the videogame industry along the way, but I kind of want to see what is the leveling off point or the breaking point.
Now.
Do we have any idea who said this? Under what context? Even a blip?
What kind of game are they working on? Does it use the tablet extensively?
And what does it mean to you if its true?
We can actually discuss the article without always going back to the "LOL!" "NUH!" level arguments. Doesn't mean much to me. I still have fun playing 2002 PC games.
Games make me decide what I'm buying, but I'm not going to act like I don't have my own proclivities. I really do enjoy Nintendo titles. Marios, Smashes, Kirbs, Karts, Legends. I can't really go without. I'm always thinking "Need to play it." When they announce them. There's still a child in me that gets giddy when he hears the Mario theme, or Zelda's Lullaby.
I make no apologies for that emotional childish response. But there is still a techie in me. I do enjoy talking about the hardware power housed in these systems. Getting a system on par with the PS3 at a size marginally larger than a Wii is impressive. Just as housing a 360 in the 360s casing was.
Console hardware is unique. They have a much smaller TDP to design under even when talking cases like the OG PS3. I still struggle to see how Sony or MS can design systems under current limitations at a "generational leap standard". Without using billions to do so. Which might be exactly what they are doing.
It's a losing battle, one that could significantly harm the videogame industry along the way, but I kind of want to see what is the leveling off point or the breaking point.
Better don't spend many polys at backgrounds, the 3D effect really taxes the vertex performance. And is not like the PSP was a vertex pushing monster (which is what it is being compared to atm).
MisterHero
Super Member
But Nintendo WASN'T gouging on hardware. For them, aligning production cost with fair pricing means they get to keep making games, and putting research into their next hardware.
What would've Nintendo done for next generation had they only covered operating costs/revenue but not actually profit? They wouldn't even be able to moneyhat 3rd-parties!
Nintendo can't throw their money away like Sony and MS could. Yes, company success DOES correlate to benefitting the consumer.
You can have a PS3, but gamers have to acknowledge the realities of the industry. The Investor/Consumer distinction is BS. Games and technology are going to get more complex, but it would be futile for many developers to remain technologically competitive.
tkscz
Member
See my problem with this, is that we don't know anything. People forget that all and all, these are just rumors. Said about dev kits, with the final model being the biggest bitch of them all (either it's changes will be huge or not). Then there are rumors that not every dev got the same dev kits. Some got weaker ones than others. No, these rumors are dumb. We should sit down and wait until E3. Until then, shut up everyone.
more powerful hardware requires bigger casing because it requires more cooling and generally a larger motherboard. don't be dense.
Not so sure I care that much. The system should be capable enough to make Nintendo games look better. Outside of the die-hard nintendo fans, I'm not sure how many people were really expecting game/graphical prowesses beyond the current gen. Between the controller costs and the expect $250-$300 pricing, I really wouldn't be surprised if it ends up around that area. Really isn't different than what we've heard all long. "Better at some things. Worse at others." etc.
Wish more light would be shed on the Vita-PS3 stuff. Its been out for a while now, developers need to start talking openly about what can be done.
Wish more light would be shed on the Vita-PS3 stuff. Its been out for a while now, developers need to start talking openly about what can be done.
I think you fucked up on your math
What is goin on in here....
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
nckillthegrimace
Member
PS1 geometry? Really?
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
The punchline to this whole thread is that those quotes are literally nonsense. Not quite CSI level, but still pretty terrible.
"My card has more graphics than yours" or "Well did you hear the PlayStation 4 has more variables?!"
So if it was actually a developer, they won't be putting their names on it any time soon.
DarkChild was using the 360 and PS3 to prove his point, which at this time are getting to be five years old. His simple dissertation was childish and deserved ridicule.
tkscz
Member
No, but putting it in 3D does, from 400 x 240 to 800 x 240
Zoramon089
Banned
Oh so the bottom screen is rendered for free now? The point is resolution isn't an advantage when it comes to determining power if you're just going to ignore the 3DS actually has to render an 800x240 screen AND a 320 x 240 screen
You live up to the Dumb blond stereotype Mr. Masters...
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I'd be embarrassed myself if it came to light that I'd tried to explain something in such rudimentary and context-less terms.
JordanLMiller
Member
But he's a developer man.
But only after they mapped the GUI interface using visual basic to code the files.
Examples, man! I don't know what you're talking about.
Why do you hate Nintendo.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Pretty much. It may be slightly more powerful than this generation, but there's no way that it's just less. It doesn't make any sense.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
This is where I disagree. It deserved to be educated. Told the reality without trying to incite anger and then indignation.
People become less likely to hear your arguments if they are angry. Everyone on the internet seems angry though. It leads to this impermeable bubble forming around people. They only end up reading the slights.
Makes everyone seem like a bunch of really angry children. Always looking to insult anything.
We can do better. I mean we all seem to have some grasp of the English language. We all just need to realize experiences cloud our opinions. You guys think this is bad? Wait until the next generation of gamers start posting here.
Those that started in the Nintendogs, Call of Duty era. GAFers will feel more alien in their hobby than ever.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
If I take a 3DS game like Zelda OoT, Mario 3D Land or Kid Icarus, aside from textures and lighting, they look to be on the same level as PSP games like Daxter, God of War or Monster Hunter.
I haven't busted out my PSP in well over a year, so this might be nostalgia talking, but from what I remember, PSP games pushed more polygons, more AA and bigger worlds.
My point is that 3DS is at best, marginally better than PSP. They are on the same level. There have been enough devs to say that Wii U is better than current gen in some areas and worse in others. Going off of Nintendo's track record I have every reason to believe this. I'll happily eat crow otherwise.
DCharlie
Banned
Straw poll - IF the Wii U comes in at X360/PS3 level, would anyone who is currently planning to purchase the machine decide against it?
I suspect it's not going to matter to most people when the chips are down.
they kidnapped my dog and when he came back his fur wasn't as detailed.
I suspect it's not going to matter to most people when the chips are down.
they kidnapped my dog and when he came back his fur wasn't as detailed.
why are people complaining about the nature of the quotes?
shaders as in shader units, like pixel shaders and vertex shaders, unified SHADERS. cmon. But I guess people in this thread buy into buzzwords like "cuda cores".
The graphics are not as powerful is pretty straight-forward as well. Although maybe some would be served to drop chip or card in after graphics to suit their own fantasy.
It's also silly to expect them to drop, before the launch of the console, such specifics of the hardware.
shaders as in shader units, like pixel shaders and vertex shaders, unified SHADERS. cmon. But I guess people in this thread buy into buzzwords like "cuda cores".
The graphics are not as powerful is pretty straight-forward as well. Although maybe some would be served to drop chip or card in after graphics to suit their own fantasy.
It's also silly to expect them to drop, before the launch of the console, such specifics of the hardware.
Is certainly Nostalgia, since the PSP didn't had any AA whatsoever.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Probably not me.
I'm not sold on the system as it is, but I will admit that is until I see something from Retro or EAD Tokyo.
Yeah people will buy for Nintendo games.
Once that happens, 3rd party will just focus on MS and Sony console. It'll be the same thing all over.
So aside from the stuff that makes it better, it's comparable.
Why don't you hate Nintendo? Or like them. Did they murder your family? It's just a corporation.
That, and the dithering that plagued so many titles often made them look even worse in the IQ department.
nckillthegrimace
Member
Textures and lighting are pretty important. I'm not sure what the best looking PSP game is, but I've played all the ones you've listed and they don't really match up to the 3DS's best. PSP games all seem to have this weird "flat" look. I'm not a scientist so I don't really know how to describe it, but it's apparent when you play a PSP game.
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