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[ruttyboy]

Look at the sales hardly seems like spin, quite the opposite actually. It's the straight up truth.

The 'spin' isn't him mentioning sales figures and share prices, the 'spin' aspect is him attempting to make the position that forced-online is 'not as terrible' without:

a) any actual reasons for why it wouldn't be, when compared to not implementing it
b) mentioning any of the actual real issues that go beyond, 'I might not be able to play a game for an hour'

So we're supposed to believe him, well, just because, and let's treat as unimportant the actual important issues because defeating straw men is much easier.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

Oh definitely, strange things are afoot at the Circle-K and it's going to be fascinating.

Woah, most excellent observation!

 

[daevv]

"the echo chamber of the Internet" Sounds cool.

NeoGAF: The echo chamber of the Internet

 

[1-D_FTW]

"the echo chamber of the Internet" Sounds cool.

NeoGAF: The echo chamber of the Internet

Always love that defense. On a small scale, there's some validity to it. But on a large scale, it always cracks me up. Like when a political candidate doesn't like the poll results being reported, so they just dismiss it as irrelevant and meaningless because of its sample size. On a macro scale, these things do tend to scale up. But, hey, when you're on the wrong side of an opinion, I guess it gives comfort to pretend you're not.

 

[itsgreen]

Few people are arguing that always-online is a plus for consumers. Rather the argument tends to be that if done correctly, it's a non-issue or a minor negative rather than the end of the world to most players these days. Personally I don't believe that the grace period is going to be 3 minutes as that doesn't seem to make sense from any perspective. If it's, say, 15-20 minutes and Microsoft can hold their own end of the bargain, even people with slightly spotty connections shouldn't for the most part be inconvenienced. The used games angle is more compelling.

What is lost if the grace period goes up from 3 to 20 minutes? And why isn't it a month?

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

"the echo chamber of the Internet" Sounds cool.

NeoGAF: The echo chamber of the Internet

GAF > Internet > GAF. Could be true.

 

[Thrakier]

What I don't get in this discioussion - why are "spotty" internet connections the main argument against always online? I live in germany and my connection is 90% stable. There are always few days or hours in a year where the connection is gone, but that's really a minor problem. A much bigger problem imo is:

- people who can't afford an internet connection
- people who maybe just use an mobile flat
- areas where you just can't get an internet connection
- no "take it with you" gaming for a hotel or a friends house if you don't have internet access

The thing is - it's just not useuful for anyone than MS or the publishers. So if they go always online, which makes their system indeed inferior or less attractive, they should at least offer some sort of compensation. But I guess they will just hope that people don't care or don't understand and buy it anyway.

 

[1-D_FTW]

What I don't get in this discioussion - why are "spotty" internet connections the main argument against always online? I live in germany and my connection is 90% stable. There are always few days or hours in a year where the connection is gone, but that's really a minor problem. A much bigger problem imo is:

- people who can't afford an internet connection
- people who maybe just use an mobile flat
- areas where you just can't get an internet connection
- no "take it with you" gaming for a hotel or a friends house if you don't have internet access

The thing is - it's just not useuful for anyone than MS or the publishers. So if they go always online, which makes their system indeed inferior or less attractive, they should at least offer some sort of compensation. But I guess they will just hope that people don't care or don't understand and buy it anyway.

All of that (and the destruction of resale value) is taken into consideration by people who think it's a terrible and destructive idea.

People who want to spin all the repercussions, simply focus on the minor issues to keep the spotlight elsewhere.

 

[maltrain]

"Always on" is great, right? Live service is almost perfect, right?

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-live-status

Well, they had a lot of problems today (news on a spanish site) and even now they still have an issue with matchmaking...

Matchmaking
"Users may experience difficulties with the following services:
Joining other Xbox LIVE members in online games

Affecting the following LIVE Platforms:
Xbox 360 Console

We're aware Silver members are experiencing problems attempting to load saved games in Minecraft. Thanks for being patient as we work to fix this issue! We'll post an updated message for you when we have more information".

For things like this, "always on" sucks...

 

[statham]

 

[TheSpoiler]

What I don't get in this discioussion - why are "spotty" internet connections the main argument against always online? I live in germany and my connection is 90% stable. There are always few days or hours in a year where the connection is gone, but that's really a minor problem. A much bigger problem imo is:

- people who can't afford an internet connection
- people who maybe just use an mobile flat
- areas where you just can't get an internet connection
- no "take it with you" gaming for a hotel or a friends house if you don't have internet access

The thing is - it's just not useuful for anyone than MS or the publishers. So if they go always online, which makes their system indeed inferior or less attractive, they should at least offer some sort of compensation. But I guess they will just hope that people don't care or don't understand and buy it anyway.

Because many have a crappy connection due to many variables, mostly outside of their hands.

 

[BigDug13]

Few people are arguing that always-online is a plus for consumers. Rather the argument tends to be that if done correctly, it's a non-issue or a minor negative rather than the end of the world to most players these days. Personally I don't believe that the grace period is going to be 3 minutes as that doesn't seem to make sense from any perspective. If it's, say, 15-20 minutes and Microsoft can hold their own end of the bargain, even people with slightly spotty connections shouldn't for the most part be inconvenienced. The used games angle is more compelling.

I can't support any game system that screws our deployed military members. I did a ton of 360 gaming while deployed with no Internet connection. That's going to be a bit more than an "inconvenience" for quite a few people who need the distraction of gaming. Fuck MS if they go through with this.

 

[polyh3dron]

Is there any actual proof that the people who dont like always online are a vocal minority?

Like most free market-type justifications for anti-consumer behavior, it may be a vocal minority of people who are against this, but only because the silent majority isn't aware of the ramifications such a practice would bring with it.

 

[Myshkin]

That's a common myth. I'm not as educated on the world broadband availability, but in the states broadband is essentially 100% available in urban centers and between 92.8% (for 3 mbps) and 98.2% (for 768 kbps) available in rural areas.

That's a common myth. I'm part of those statistics. 15 mbps is available in my rural area. But the fastest reliable Internet in my area is 56 kbps. See the difference?

[And the last place I lived was urban, with a wide variety of options. The only reliable one was 56 kbps.]

 

[larvi]

The only model I would even consider for an always online console would be yearly or monthly fee that includes hardware rental, network access, i.e. xbox live and unlimited access to play games on demand. If I'm essentially renting the access to my games I in no way would want to purchase them outright, same with the hardware.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Whatever... I won't buy a console that doesn't function without a steady internet connection. I will not do it.

I can agree with this, they cost way too much to be useless bricks, if this is the case, without an Internet connection.

 

[oVerde]

I guess leaderboards and messaging... maybe? I can't really think of anything that is not behind that live gold paywall.

Some games offers async multiplayer challenges that works on silver accounts, that I easily remember now , Dance Central and Kinect Sports. I can be wrong, but some community created stuff works either. Voice chating with only one friend is also doable on silvers.

 

[Kame]

Like I predicted. Media will brain wash you to think it's ok. Well maybe not gaf but they will brainwash the masses, just watch

.

 

[Reiko]

Now this thread is hilarious.

 

[DopeyFish]

DopeyFish: Xbox always-online: HERE COMES THE SPIN

AGREED MAN

 

[Myshkin]

You could note the ten other people who have said the exact same thing. You could also make your point in a less inflammatory manner. You don't need to make other people feel like shit on a message board.

How does that line go from Splash?
"Are we considering how the subject is responding to the experiment? ...."
A little introspection wouldn't hurt you.

 

[Phonomezer]

I'm confused as to who is supposedly "brainwashed" by "the spin" now.

 

[Rolf NB]

GI.biz is part of a vocal minority with a massive entitlement complex.

 

[Satchel]

Gonna be interesting to see how many people go "Oh, this does suck, but let's think of ways it can be great" after the announcement.

I honestly don't see anyone waning that way.

Those who aren't in the majority here, like myself aren't defending this idea, I'd say they (we) just really aren't that bothered by it. My Cable goes down, no doubt it does, and it will SUCK if it happens while I'm on the new Xbox. But in the end, take a look at the Gaming Setup thread, I have MANY other consoles that I can turn to in the event my cable shits itself for a little bit.

I'd say those who aren't outraged are merely speaking from their own personal perspective as opposed to some of the others who believe they speak for the world.

I would prefer the console didn't require an Internet connection, but if it does it does. For me it also sucks because it essentially means I can't "collect" the console like I always do.

 

[GrandHarrier]

I don't like always online, but I trust Live over PSN in that regards.

 

[Trevelyon]

Now this thread is hilarious.

How so? The most recent rumor is still definitely a rumor, and aren't all rumors created equal and should be given equal footing.

..or is that all out the window now.

 

[surly]

How so? The most recent rumor is still definitely a rumor, and aren't all rumors created equal and should be given equal footing.

..or is that all out the window now.

If the new rumours should be given equal footing, the majority of GAF should believe they're true as that's what they did with the "must be online" ones.

I agree with you though. Better to wait for facts, even if rumours sound very convincing.

 

[Uno Venova]

How so? The most recent rumor is still definitely a rumor, and aren't all rumors created equal and should be given equal footing.

..or is that all out the window now.

People stances on rumors are changing rather quickly today.

 

[Reiko]

How so? The most recent rumor is still definitely a rumor, and aren't all rumors created equal and should be given equal footing.

..or is that all out the window now.

Well it's VGleaks.

 

[Dion Blaster]

How so? The most recent rumor is still definitely a rumor, and aren't all rumors created equal and should be given equal footing.

..or is that all out the window now.

yes, the equal footing of skepticism

 

[Reiko]

yes, the equal footing of skepticism

Let me add more... It's VGleaks rumor in extreme detail vs. a small statement from Edge.

 

[Version 3.0]

Let me add more... It's VGleaks rumor in extreme detail vs. a small statement from Edge.

Wait, what? It's VGLeaks rumor in detail vs. several also extremely detailed rumors over the course of a couple of months. The "online required" stuff was coming from sources across the industry.

 

[Reiko]

Wait, what? It's VGLeaks rumor in detail vs. several also extremely detailed rumors over the course of a couple of months. The "online required" stuff was coming from sources across the industry.

Yes but online required directly talks about the new Mini Xbox 360.

 

[Version 3.0]

Yes but online required directly talks about the new Mini Xbox 360.

I know, but you're still assuming that all those other sources managed to distort this information, and never mention any kind of add on. In fact, IIRC, one (or more) of them specifically stated "you put in a disc and it will not play without a connection".

Granted that these are all still rumors, and I hope that this one is true and all the others were not, I still objectively see no reason to believe this one and discard all others. You're believing what you want to believe.

The truth is, we'll never know the details of which rumors were distorted when and how - these things change. And despite people mocking the idea of so major a change at this point, it can and does happen. Hell, as some have said, Microsoft might have "leaked" the info in the first place to get free feedback from their very profitable core demographic.

 

[Reiko]

I know, but you're still assuming that all those other sources managed to distort this information, and never mention any kind of add on. In fact, IIRC, one (or more) of them specifically stated "you put in a disc and it will not play without a connection".

Granted that these are all still rumors, and I hope that this one is true and all the others were not, I still objectively see no reason to believe this one and discard all others. You're believing what you want to believe.

The truth is, we'll never know the details of which rumors were distorted when and how - these things change. And despite people mocking the idea of so major a change at this point, it can and does happen. Hell, as some have said, Microsoft might have "leaked" the info in the first place to get free feedback from their very profitable core demographic.

That is true.

Dude... Your tag. Nice.

 

[Gummb]

Well guys, it's happening again. Prepare for a marginalization of opinion and a reduction of narrative that favors large corporations.