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Given the current landscape, has the 360 achieved "success?"

RSTEIN said:
I agree with you 100%. I find it SO strange how MS has handled themselves after Christmas 2007. From hardware shortages, exclusivity mishaps, PR silence, etc. It could be a transitional period as a new team takes over from Peter Moore. I don't know. I guess we'll find out at GDC.
For the last 2 months? No, longer than that. They only ran out of steam recently, but they've been heading towards this point for a while.

They've been coasting since Christmas 2006. Or perhaps it's more appropriate to say that they filled the tank in November '06 and were going strong until 2008.

Then again, I'm sure they do have things on the way. They just are keeping them quiet. Alan Wake and Banjo 3 have to be somewhere...
 
Depends on how you define what being successful is.

In a nutshell yes it's for me because this system is already doing better than xbox ever could or would do. Is it doing the billion console bs that we heard when it debuted, hell no that's pipe dream for 20 years down the road.
 
I'd say it's a success. But then again, if I had $5 billion to blow, I'd probably have my own successful console as well.
 
Dyno said:
QUESTION - How long you think before we see another Microsoft console? I'm thinking in two or three years. Fast and dirty - it's the American Way!

I would almost bet my account that the magical year is 2011, with a 25% chance of 2010.
 
RSTEIN said:
I would almost bet my account that the magical year is 2011, with a 25% chance of 2010.


Yeah I agree.

I almost think if MS was to introduce a new console in the next 2-3 years it would make the 360 look like a failure. MS can't let the 360 look like its dropping out like the original Xbox did, that would make it 2 strikes in the eyes of many people, and allot wouldn't bother swinging at a third pitch.
 
I was a PS2 owner from late 2001 through the present. I did not buy and original X-Box until a friend of mine thought he broke his and gave it to me for free (after hiding it and buying a new one he did not want to tell his wife about)...

I did not buy a 360 at launch. I was curious, but I did not see it as ultra-compelling to wait in line for or to pay ridiculous E-Bay mark-ups for in the Holiday 2005 period. I finally bought one when I found it in March of 2006.

From March of 2006 through the March 2007, my XB360 received 100% of my gaming time. It completely replaced my XB1 and PS2 in very short order...I was hooked on LIVE in a matter of weeks (after initially being VERY skeptical about PAYING for online services that were free on the PS2)...

I bought a PS3 in late-December of 2006. It was not exactly a launch unit, but it was part of the second shipment available in my area. I had been jazzed about getting one since I had first seen the Killzone 2 CGI trailer years earlier.

From January 2007 through January 2008 I believe my PS3 received MAYBE 10% of my gaming time....most disturbing of all was the fact that I used my $600 PS2 emulator to play PS2 games more frequently than I used it to play actual PS3 games, and in EVERY case I chose to purchase a 360 version of a multi-platform title over the PS3 version.

3rd party titles (for whatever reasons) were simply better or more compelling to own and play on the 360 platform and LIVE. System exclusives like Resistance (nice, but not really 'better' than BF2:MC or Far Cry:Instincts - which I liked both but many people did not like either one; GRAW 1 or 2, Halo 3 or COD2/3/or 4 as far as ), Heavenly Sword (total let down because I have played more God of War 1 and 2 on my PS3 than I have played Heavenly Sword) and Motorstorm all fell pretty flat with me.

The only game that I played on my PS3 that was a really great game (IMO) was Uncharted....and even at that, in reality it was a spruced up version of Tomb Raider : Legend with new characters...

Why bother with any of this information?

Merely to point out that the XB360 changed my mind about Microsoft and their role in gaming in the future. I was NOT a big XB1 fan....I eventually got one and did enjoy it to an extent, but only as a distant supplement to my PS2. For me, the 360 has currently assumed the role my PS2 used to enjoy and my PS3 has been relegated to the role of HD-movie player and secondary gaming system.

Maybe Sony's games will do enough to change that, but realistically, I do not see a generational difference between XB360 and PS3 games - unless MS stays with the no required HDD ever stance. Last time around I was a PS2 guy through and through and accepted that even if the XB1 had SLIGHTLY better graphics on some games, that what I had on the PS2 was pretty close and at worst was acceptable.

Microsoft set out to do exactly this - convert some of the market to their product and cut into the PS2's dominance...in that regard, the 360 must be considered a success. In the longer term, life of a console sense, I don't think anyone is going to really be surprised in 2009 when the specs for the next XB are released just as Sony is trumpetting the success of the PS3 overtaking the 360 in total console sales.

If a goal for MS was to bleed Sony on the PS3 and decrease their position of total dominance in the games market, then again they have been highly successful with the 360. They are a smashing success in the NA and GB markets and not so much in EU and abysmal in the Xenophobic Japanese market.

But all of that aside, the only really consistently stated goal for MS was to convert their Games and Entertainment Division for a loss-leader to a profitable division in the lifespan of the 360. Well, MS reported the division in the black already (quarterly anyway) and that makes the 360 a complete success and virtually guarantees a MS presence for at least one more generation of hardware around December 2010 or 2011.
 
RSTEIN said:
I would almost bet my account that the magical year is 2011, with a 25% chance of 2010.
2011 sounds about right, with PS4 and WiiHD following directly in 2012.

I don't expect anyone's really looking to jump the cycle next gen like Microsoft did with 360. I bet we get new Nintendo and PlayStation handhelds in 2010 too.
 
One thing that could help MS in the future is if they offere a redesigned xbox 360. I really think it is needed, as their 360 name has been tarnished by the red ring of death. They need to redesign the X360 image, and the best way to do this is with a new look on the system with all the issues fixed.
 
Moostache said:
I was a PS2 owner from late 2001 through the present. I did not buy and original X-Box until a friend of mine thought he broke his and gave it to me for free (after hiding it and buying a new one he did not want to tell his wife about)...

I did not buy a 360 at launch. I was curious, but I did not see it as ultra-compelling to wait in line for or to pay ridiculous E-Bay mark-ups for in the Holiday 2005 period. I finally bought one when I found it in March of 2006.

From March of 2006 through the March 2007, my XB360 received 100% of my gaming time. It completely replaced my XB1 and PS2 in very short order...I was hooked on LIVE in a matter of weeks (after initially being VERY skeptical about PAYING for online services that were free on the PS2)...

I bought a PS3 in late-December of 2006. It was not exactly a launch unit, but it was part of the second shipment available in my area. I had been jazzed about getting one since I had first seen the Killzone 2 CGI trailer years earlier.

From January 2007 through January 2008 I believe my PS3 received MAYBE 10% of my gaming time....most disturbing of all was the fact that I used my $600 PS2 emulator to play PS2 games more frequently than I used it to play actual PS3 games, and in EVERY case I chose to purchase a 360 version of a multi-platform title over the PS3 version.

3rd party titles (for whatever reasons) were simply better or more compelling to own and play on the 360 platform and LIVE. System exclusives like Resistance (nice, but not really 'better' than BF2:MC or Far Cry:Instincts - which I liked both but many people did not like either one; GRAW 1 or 2, Halo 3 or COD2/3/or 4 as far as ), Heavenly Sword (total let down because I have played more God of War 1 and 2 on my PS3 than I have played Heavenly Sword) and Motorstorm all fell pretty flat with me.

The only game that I played on my PS3 that was a really great game (IMO) was Uncharted....and even at that, in reality it was a spruced up version of Tomb Raider : Legend with new characters...

Why bother with any of this information?

Merely to point out that the XB360 changed my mind about Microsoft and their role in gaming in the future. I was NOT a big XB1 fan....I eventually got one and did enjoy it to an extent, but only as a distant supplement to my PS2. For me, the 360 has currently assumed the role my PS2 used to enjoy and my PS3 has been relegated to the role of HD-movie player and secondary gaming system.

Maybe Sony's games will do enough to change that, but realistically, I do not see a generational difference between XB360 and PS3 games - unless MS stays with the no required HDD ever stance. Last time around I was a PS2 guy through and through and accepted that even if the XB1 had SLIGHTLY better graphics on some games, that what I had on the PS2 was pretty close and at worst was acceptable.

Microsoft set out to do exactly this - convert some of the market to their product and cut into the PS2's dominance...in that regard, the 360 must be considered a success. In the longer term, life of a console sense, I don't think anyone is going to really be surprised in 2009 when the specs for the next XB are released just as Sony is trumpetting the success of the PS3 overtaking the 360 in total console sales.

If a goal for MS was to bleed Sony on the PS3 and decrease their position of total dominance in the games market, then again they have been highly successful with the 360. They are a smashing success in the NA and GB markets and not so much in EU and abysmal in the Xenophobic Japanese market.

But all of that aside, the only really consistently stated goal for MS was to convert their Games and Entertainment Division for a loss-leader to a profitable division in the lifespan of the 360. Well, MS reported the division in the black already (quarterly anyway) and that makes the 360 a complete success and virtually guarantees a MS presence for at least one more generation of hardware around December 2010 or 2011.

Wow, thank you for your calm, cool, intelligent response. A rare thing here a lot of the time!
 
jarrod said:
2011 sounds about right, with PS4 and WiiHD following directly in 2012.

I don't expect anyone's really looking to jump the cycle next gen like Microsoft did with 360. I bet we get new Nintendo and PlayStation handhelds in 2010 too.

Microsoft will jump it again, just like they did last time.

Microsoft Odyssey: 2010.

Berieve.
 
MaizeRage25 said:
In the long run, the PS3 will win world-wide; it's inevitable.
I'm sorry but we simply don't know that yet, just because the PS3 is starting to build up more momentum doesn't mean it'll inevitably win. For all we know we may get some earth shattering 360 announcement, doubtful, but it's possible.
 
Microsoft needs to increase their lead in Europe with better marketing(they're still ahead of Sony by a small margin). Also, they need to release a redesigned system in Japan together with a Japanese company. It doesn't matter if it's Bandai, SEGA, Toshiba or Samsung, they just need to shed the "LOL-USA-Box" image that they have in Japan.

Ditch the current SKU's, offer 1 SKU with a new design and a great holiday line-up and there won't be a Sony comeback. I think they'll screw up though, they can't sell this ugly box when even Nintendo has a better more "high-tech" looking console on the market. The Xbox 360 always looked cheap, makes alot of noise and breaks down often. The only thing that's "wrong" with the Xbox brand is the machine itself.
 
jarrod said:
2011 sounds about right, with PS4 and WiiHD following directly in 2012.

I don't expect anyone's really looking to jump the cycle next gen like Microsoft did with 360. I bet we get new Nintendo and PlayStation handhelds in 2010 too.

Actually, I think we'll be getting a successor to the Wii in 2011 too. Nintendo has been sticking to 5 year releases since the SNES in 1991, I don't see why the Wii would be different. It would probably be in their best interest to release relatively early next gen. It would give them a chance to build off their success with the Wii without having too many other systems competing for customer mindshare (sort of what Sony did with the PS2).

I also wouldn't be surprised if we get the Successor to the DS in 2009. The fact that the system hasn't been announced yet doesn't mean much, as both the GBA and Nintendo DS were announced less than a year before they shipped. The GBC and GBA were both also doing extremely well saleswise when their successor was released, so I don't necessarily think the DS's success will stop Nintendo either.
 
For this gen, from what we've seen in the market, and what we know is coming for all 3 systems, the only logical conclusion is 360 and PS3 are going to be fighting it out for 2nd place, a la GC/Xbox, for the rest of the gen, far behind Wii.

360 has great sw sales in its successful regions (like, but higher than, Xbox), i.e. NA and UK, and will have a marginal increase in installed base over Xbox, and I doubt PS3 will ever outsell the system in NA. So, I'd say yes, 360 has achieved success, especially considering the sw sales its taking away from PS3 in NA.

Biggest mess up ever ever goes to PS3, compared to where Sony was last gen with PS2, and ultimately it will be seen as the most catastrophic of falls from grace in videogames by the end of this gen imo.


Edit-
Wii is going to be the biggest selling system this gen by a huge margin, and will prove no generation is secure on past glories, and will yet again confirm you need the tastes of the mass market on your side to become the dominant system.
 
its a success in the USA

but it fails at appealing to the Europeans and Japanese

Its still the shooter box and doesn't have much appeal for the casuals
 
Flavius said:
Microsoft will jump it again, just like they did last time.

Microsoft Odyssey: 2010.

Berieve.
I don't buy it, there's no real reason to... out of everyone, Sony actually has the most incentive to jump the cycle tbh.
 
People just don't understand how Microsoft likes to do things. There objective is not to hit a home run every try. Rather, it's to win the game after 9 innings. It's obvious Microsoft will release at least another console. Thus, at most, we are only in the 5th inning. Unlike other companies, why can Microsoft afford to move at snail pace. The company as a whole is making $12 billion in profits annually.
 
jarrod said:
I don't buy it, there's no real reason to... out of everyone, Sony actually has the most incentive to jump the cycle tbh.

You do not keep up with sales trends ehh? from america too probably.
 
ziran said:
Biggest mess up ever ever goes to PS3, compared to where Sony was last gen with PS2, and ultimately it will be seen as the most catastrophic of falls from grace in videogames by the end of this gen imo.

The problem with equating this with the PS3 being a total failure is that the PS3 could do SNES/NES numbers worldwide and STILL be a catastophic drop of over 50% from the PS2.

The PS2 will end up with over 140M sold when all is said and done. Even if a miracle happened and the PS3 reached 100M, it would still be the largest generation to generation drop of all time. If comparing a console's sales to it's predecessor is the ONLY measure of success, than the PS3 will never be a success. Even if it was the second or third best selling console ever.
 
djtortilla said:
its a success in the USA

but it fails at appealing to the Europeans and Japanese

Its still the shooter box and doesn't have much appeal for the casuals

True but shooters are the new "casual" genre this generation. Shooters are probably easier to get into over, say, an adventure game like Zelda IMO.
 
kswiston said:
Actually, I think we'll be getting a successor to the Wii in 2011 too. Nintendo has been sticking to 5 year releases since the SNES in 1991, I don't see why the Wii would be different. It would probably be in their best interest to release relatively early next gen. It would give them a chance to build off their success with the Wii without having too many other systems competing for customer mindshare (sort of what Sony did with the PS2).

I also wouldn't be surprised if we get the Successor to the DS in 2009. The fact that the system hasn't been announced yet doesn't mean much, as both the GBA and Nintendo DS were announced less than a year before they shipped. The GBC and GBA were both also doing extremely well saleswise when their successor was released, so I don't necessarily think the DS's success will stop Nintendo either.
Actually SFC to N64 was a 6 year cycle (and FC to SFC before that was 7 years). It's only post N64 that Nintendo's truncated to 5 year cycles, and then largely due to their flagging platform sales (which Wii's reversed dramatically). Make no mistake, Nintendo's going to ride Wii as long as possible.

As far as handhelds, GBC and GBA make little point for comparison. GBC was actually intended as more of a novelty upgrade (GBA was originally planned for 1999 release), it's only after the platform was moving insane units that NCL decided to push it more and hold off on GBA. DS meanwhile was only announced so early due to PSP entering the market... now that the PlayStation threat's been neutered, expect Nintendo to ride DS longer than usual too...
 
jarrod said:
I don't buy it, there's no real reason to... out of everyone, Sony actually has the most incentive to jump the cycle tbh.

360 is the "gap-filler" console. Microsoft never intended for it to be a long-term success. The "real" Microsoft console is the next one.

The incentive is seeing their plan through to the end. They're not going to sit around for another 3-4 years twiddling their thumbs. The new console is coming much sooner than you think.
 
sprocket said:
You do not keep up with sales trends ehh? from america too probably.
Last I checked, tracking worse than GameCube in America and Japan isn't such an enviable position. I love how the one region with mostly unknown sales trends too has suddenly become the great white hope for the Sonycorps. :lol
 
The original xbox was supposed to establish, the 360 was supposed conquer and generate large profits.

If I were a share-holder, I would say its a farcry from a sucess at this point. It hasn't even earned enough profit to recover from its associated losses, let alone the previous xbox losses. It isn't dominating the market as well as the PS1 or PS2 did either. At the end of the lifecyle, if they've managed recover their losses on 360 and stay ahead of sony in terms of install base and market influence, then I would consider that a small success. It hardly justifys the 15-year inventsment though. MS's game division could have earned more money investing purely in games development/aquisition of game development studios.
 
kswiston said:
The problem with equating this with the PS3 being a total failure is that the PS3 could do SNES/NES numbers worldwide and STILL be a catastophic drop of over 50% from the PS2.

The PS2 will end up with over 140M sold when all is said and done. Even if a miracle happened and the PS3 reached 100M, it would still be the largest generation to generation drop of all time. If comparing a console's sales to it's predecessor is the ONLY measure of success, than the PS3 will never be a success. Even if it was the second or third best selling console ever.
I'm really talking about sw sales, which is key and I don't expect anything like the HW numbers for PS3 you seem see as possible. SNES sold huge amounts of sw for Nintendo and 3rd parties, PS3, like PSP, doesn't look like its going to achieve anything like this, and a SNES level installed base isn't going to happen imo.

I think PS3 and 360 are both going to end up ~30 million ww, maybe ~35 million with a decent second wind, when all said and done, but 360 is going to have much better sw sales, especially for 3rd parties. This is going to become a real problem for Sony and their next machine, imo.
 
GauntletFan said:
It's the new PS2.

Gamesplayers know it as the must-have games system with the strongest software library and the best versions of multi-platform titles.

And then, on the developer front - throughout the games industry there's a 360 devkit on every desk. It's the lead SKU for next gen development with ps3 ports mostly an afterthought or tackled in the last few months of development (basically how it used to be with PS2 -> Xbox)

The new PS2? Gimme some of that stuff you're taking. I'm at work and need to unwind.
 
TheRagnCajun said:
The original xbox was supposed to establish, the 360 was supposed conquer and generate large profits.

If I were a share-holder, I would say its a farcry from a sucess at this point. It hasn't even earned enough profit to recover from its associated losses, let alone the previous xbox losses. It isn't dominating the market as well as the PS1 or PS2 did either. At the end of the lifecyle, if they've managed recover their losses on 360 and stay ahead of sony in terms of install base and market influence, then I would consider that a small success. It hardly justifys the 15-year inventsment though. MS's game division could have earned more money investing purely in games development/aquisition of game development studios.

Incorrect.
 
Mrbob said:
One thing that could help MS in the future is if they offere a redesigned xbox 360. I really think it is needed, as their 360 name has been tarnished by the red ring of death. They need to redesign the X360 image, and the best way to do this is with a new look on the system with all the issues fixed.
Oh totally agreed. DSLite and PSPslim have shown how mauch a redesign can turn things around and really help accelerate hardware and perception. And I'd agree that it could be a great way for Microsoft to help distance themselves from the negative build PR... slot loading DVD though plz!

360's getting overdue for it imo, it'd be a great advantage in 2008 especially.
 
jarrod said:
Last I checked, tracking worse than GameCube in America and Japan isn't such an enviable position. I love how the one region with mostly unknown sales trends too has suddenly become the great white hope for the Sonycorps. :lol

Racist.
 
[Nintex] said:
Microsoft needs to increase their lead in Europe with better marketing(they're still ahead of Sony by a small margin). Also, they need to release a redesigned system in Japan together with a Japanese company. It doesn't matter if it's Bandai, SEGA, Toshiba or Samsung, they just need to shed the "LOL-USA-Box" image that they have in Japan.

Ditch the current SKU's, offer 1 SKU with a new design and a great holiday line-up and there won't be a Sony comeback. I think they'll screw up though, they can't sell this ugly box when even Nintendo has a better more "high-tech" looking console on the market. The Xbox 360 always looked cheap, makes alot of noise and breaks down often. The only thing that's "wrong" with the Xbox brand is the machine itself.

You do know that Microsoft did focus groups in Japan on X360 designs. The Japanese people picked what the current X360 saying it was hip and cool like Ipod. It still didn't sell because as soon as Microsoft stuck their name onto it became "LOL-USA-Box." Thus, won't matter if another company makes re-design one unless Microsoft and/or X360 is not on the console. Would defeat the purpose don't you think?
 
In a word, Yes.

In a few more words, the 360 is my favorite console since the PS2 and really it's getting close to right on that level with me. I own 16 games right now and have owned probably 20 more since I got mine a year and a half ago. I didn't think Microsoft was really in the race when the system launched and have been pleasantly surprised (shocked) at the number of AAA games I've gotten to experience.

Worldwide, they may not end up beating Sony, but they are assuredly strong competition and I am confident they'll stay in this well past the next generation of consoles.
 
TheBranca18 said:
I'd recommend buying an SNES, PS1 or PS2 and then coming back in this thread :)

Ive owned them all, thanks though. 360 has an insane amount of high quality games. Just check out a used game rack and pick out the ones you can honestly say are BAD. There arent many.
 
Flavius said:
360 is the "gap-filler" console. Microsoft never intended for it to be a long-term success. The "real" Microsoft console is the next one.

The incentive is seeing their plan through to the end. They're not going to sit around for another 3-4 years twiddling their thumbs. The new console is coming much sooner than you think.
Plans change though... Xbox being retired early was attributed largely to the overly expensive, nVidia royalty raping, hard to scale hardware and distant competitive positioning... 360's not in the same place at all, and a similar early retirement could undo a lot of the goodwill Microsoft's successfully built up with consumers... there's just no real good reasoning for it truthfully, Dreamcast-era forecasts be damned. ;)
 
knitoe said:
You do know that Microsoft did focus groups in Japan on X360 designs. The Japanese people picked what the current X360 saying it was hip and cool like Ipod. It still didn't sell because as soon as Microsoft stuck their name onto it became "LOL-USA-Box." Thus, won't matter if another company makes re-design one unless Microsoft and/or X360 is not on the console. Would defeat the purpose don't you think?

I agree. I think if MS pasted a Super Famicom logo on their consoles in Japan they'd be destroying the Wii and PS3.
 
TheDuce22 said:
Ive owned them all, thanks though.

Thank God for GAF, I had no idea people loved the 360 so much.

Anyway, I think it's achieved success in a certain sense, the media and gamers' portrayal of it is so much more positive than the original XBox.

Plus I know MS is big on getting into people's living rooms (those Big Brother bastards) and this is just another way along with Media Center to accomplish that.
 
TheRagnCajun said:
They sure do. IIRC, Gates made it clear in a May '05 Time Magazine exlusive interview that they had a 2-step strategy, not 3....xbox360 being the second step.

You're just wishing for them to step out. Even the shareholders talk, it's just excuses.

I never understand what the damn problem is with shit like that, does it bother you that they are in the market? 360 is starting to turn a profit, quarter by quarter the games division will probably going up.

Shareholders really aren't that bummed about the 360 path so far, only a moron thinks that it's easy to win a market overnight. And obivously, GATes would be saying that they wanted to take the lead with the 360...what kind of stupid talk would it be if he was saying "No, we don't want to be 1st this gen, just the next after, or the one after that".

It doesn't work like that, and a company that is wanting to grow even more like MS, bailing out just doesn't make sense.
 
jarrod said:
Plans change though... Xbox being retired early was attributed largely to the overly expensive, nVidia royalty raping, hard to scale hardware and distant competitive positioning... 360's not in the same place at all, and a similar early retirement could undo a lot of the goodwill Microsoft's successfully built up with consumers... there's just no real good reasoning for it truthfully, Dreamcast-era forecasts be damned. ;)

Oh, there are at least two very good reasons for it:

1. Price
2. Technology

Sony is already beginning to reap the benefits of reduced manufacturing costs. What happens when they're able to drop the console to $299? $199? If your retort is that Microsoft can drop their MSRP even lower, I'd point you to the Dreamcasts and Gamecubes of the world. It isn't simply a matter of who can offer their console for less. In addition, sing the praises of digital distribution if you will, but if Sony can successfully stave off that tech from the mass market long enough to make Blu Ray an even brief success, it will be successful in swaying console purchasers over to the PS3 side of things, given Microsoft's choice to go with the DVD format.
 
beerbelly said:
True but shooters are the new "casual" genre this generation. Shooters are probably easier to get into over, say, an adventure game like Zelda IMO.
No they're not. If that were true 360 wouldn't be getting demolished by the Wii worldwide. Wii Sports is closer to the new "casual" this generation but there is no such thing as a single casual genre. Casual gamers are interested in variety and playability. They have no desire in playing 50 different shooting games that play the same. They want more unique offerings and variety and the only way to achieve that is to be the console with the most software like PS2 was. Right now that looks to be the Wii.

360 is the hardcore system this generation which means excellent software sales for select proven genres but I see little hope in the 360 ever appealing to the casual audience that purchased over 100 million PS2's. It just doesn't have the support or variety to achieve this.
 
WrikaWrek said:
You're just wishing for them to step out. Even the shareholders talk, it's just excuses.

I never understand what the damn problem is with shit like that, does it bother you that they are in the market? 360 is starting to turn a profit, quarter by quarter the games division will probably going up.

Shareholders really aren't that bummed about the 360 path so far, only a moron thinks that it's easy to win a market overnight. And obivously, GATes would be saying that they wanted to take the lead with the 360...what kind of stupid talk would it be if he was saying "No, we don't want to be 1st this gen, just the next after, or the one after that".

It doesn't work like that, and a company that is wanting to grow even more like MS, bailing out just doesn't make sense.

wut?
 
TheRagnCajun said:

You know what i mean. What is it with the shareholders were expecting the console to be the leader by now, they had to waste alot of money on Xbox 1, etc etc arguments?

They are stupid arguments, and the whole "i don't know how long they can keep this up before they have to leave the market" is crap. Because reality is, MS games division is starting to make money, and MS is looking to grow not shrink. And xbox live is becoming bigger and bigger too, and they keep signing company's to make content for it.
 
I wouldn't call it a success until the 360 surpasses the original Xbox in sales. Yes, 15-20 Mil. is great for a product, but the videogame market is so huge that 15-20 Mil. isn't getting it done.
 
I think xbox 360 is a great success. For last generation, my main console was PS2, xbox was bought to play a few games (Ninja Gaiden etc). This generation, xbox 360 is my main console, PS3 is bought to play blu-ray movies.:lol
 
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