Shiki_
Banned
I thought you dismiss any feminist site Dunki.
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GOG apologizes for posting a picture of a Game Journalism tombstone
- Thread starter DryvBy
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I thought you dismiss any feminist site Dunki.
Schrödinger's cat
Banned
That's a distortion of what was said.
That's a really bad way to address the concerns that people have about stuff getting misrepresented and distorted.
That's a really bad way to address the concerns that people have about stuff getting misrepresented and distorted.
I do not dismiss scientific research and facts. I do dissmiss feelings in science yes. I also dismiss non scientific short term studies as well. Same with fabricated lies like the gender wage gap is 27 cents.
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Shiki_
Banned
Sure buddy. Here's a thing: it was a list of 9000+ accounts.Almost 600 accounts were legit harassers, and "just" 65 were directly connected to GamerGate. Do you know how the list with the 9000+ accounts was created, right? By people being directly or indirectly connected to GamerGate people. To claim "just" 0.66% GamerGate accounts from the list were harassers, meanwhile ignorning there was 4.8% accounts which were harassers, too... it's absurd. Even if they were not GamerGate accounts, they surely followed key people.
I wish the study could have checked how many of the "non harrassers" accounts were retweeing and liking the harassers posts, because it would paint a very diffferent light to what really were such accounts.
Are you one of these people that argue like Anita in from of the UN that disagreeing with her on mass is a form on harassment? If so then yes many people did harass her for lying and toxic behaviour. I had a lot of contact with gamergate people and going by the most influnecer there none was a harasser. Milo was a fucking troll for sure. But telling people that feminism is cancer is not harassment. Harasment are threats, it is doxxing etc.
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Shiki_
Banned
Suuureeeee.
How is this harassment? Please tell me. since I am very curious how can you become so fragile that someone shitting on your ideology is harassment?
Shiki_
Banned
If you were told that everything you think and work for is cancer, you would be happy? Calling you bitch, wishing to get killed and raped, every single day. Do you would ignore it easily, when people is trying to doxing? Yeah, sure.
WHAT?
First of all Wishing to get killed and raped is threats and yes this is harassment I do not think we need to argue about this. HOWEVER it is not what Milo said. Mabye the bitch part which is an insult that is all.
The first part however is fucking insane in my opinion. I can not call you out for your bullshit cult and religious like ideology you are obsessed with? Why do you think Feminists are special? People get called out for their ideology every fucking day. Lets take Trump Supporter. You can say they are Nazis you cann call them white supremacists etc. And you also can call Feminism cancer. You can call Christianity cancer, you can call Islam cancer you are not going for people you are going for an ideology you personally think of dangerous and toxic. This is totally fine and has nothing to do with harassment.
PS: I do not care if you are happy. Do you think I am happy with modern feminism getting in my Life every fucking day on social media? No I am not. But they still can say their bullshit because this is what I have to endure in a democracy and free country.
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Shiki_
Banned
Well, maybe you are the problem, don't you think? Without feminism, right-wing politics would be trying to push or dismiss progress made, because they really would want deny basic rights to women and LGBT people. And before you ask me why I associate both, well, because they are really connected.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Feminism could disappear, but we would still have egalitarianism. Feminism is not the thing stopping the "right-wing politics" boogeyman that you seem to believe in, that is ardently trying to "deny basic rights to women and LGBT people" as you claim.
egalitarianism
Some parts of feminism are (or were, depending on the person) what egalitarianism is. Sadly, feminism has been taken over by multiple groups, multiple "waves". Each one with its own goals and ideologies, some completely counter to egalitarianism - which is where many take issues with feminism. Some groups do not care about equality, but want supremacy. This is where Dunki (and numerous others who do not care for feminism) are coming from.
Here is the kicker.
Women in America and other first world countries have basic rights you can even argue that they have more privileges in terms of laws, protection etc. and I am all for equaly for gay and trans people. I however also think that without MODERN feminism the world would be a more peaceful and more equal world. I do not have to be against equal right while saying modern feminism is cancer. One does not exclude the other. Less than 7% of people in the UK consider themselves a feminist. HOWEVER the vast Majority of like 80% are for equality.
I rather have some gay conservative or trans conservative like Blairwhite than some authorian bullshit feminists like Kate Morgan who is advising every women with a white male baby to have an abortion. Or Role model and idol of the Women#s March 2018 Linda Sarasour which by the way is a Sharia lover, Antisemit and even tells women to get an Female circumcision. Just to show 2 examples of modern feminism.
PS: telling men that stuff they love like sexualized characters to stay on the gaming topics makes them sexist and its because of toxic masculinity etc is also harassment according to your logic. The most authoritarian ideology in the west right now is for me modern feminism and this goes almost into a form of facism. But this is only my opinion and everyone can build his own opinion on different ideologies. But to tell me that me saying feminsim is cancer is harassment is justridiculous.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
My take on it was it was just a tone deaf tweet. Whatever people's take on "Gamergate" it is connected to some really awful views, harrasment campaigns and so on so it's pretty tonedef for a store front/developer company to tweet out an image with a message and date that calls back to that. Just dumb to risk alienating potential consumers with that kind of message, so they did the right thing by apologizing for it and making clear it was an honest mistake.
Even ignoring the gamergate connection, it's not wise for a store front/developer to shit on game journalism given how dependent they are on them to write good previews and features to get buzz for their games prior to release. Entertainment journalism is always "lite" journalism at best as so much content is more or less PR and publicity for games, movies etc.
And that's all I'll say about that as I have no interest in participating in these larger political/social issues in gaming/the industry debates as I'm just in the hobby to have fun playing and discussing games and to escape from all the political nonsense that makes the real world so unbearable lately.
Even ignoring the gamergate connection, it's not wise for a store front/developer to shit on game journalism given how dependent they are on them to write good previews and features to get buzz for their games prior to release. Entertainment journalism is always "lite" journalism at best as so much content is more or less PR and publicity for games, movies etc.
And that's all I'll say about that as I have no interest in participating in these larger political/social issues in gaming/the industry debates as I'm just in the hobby to have fun playing and discussing games and to escape from all the political nonsense that makes the real world so unbearable lately.
Helios
Member
I can definitely see that. Like many people said earlier, nobody wants to be associated with GG because the word became synonymous with harassment and misogyny whether that's actually true or journalists trying to spin it that way. I believe it's the latter.
But I also think that the image wasn't representing GOG as much as it was representing Postal 2, a game chock-full of this type of humor. If anything it advertised exactly what postal 2 is about. People have to look at the context .
what is with some users on here describing everything as cancer 
Feminism is cancer, NaughtyDog are cancer, journalists are cancer
I do sometimes think, if you want to move things forward, push for equal rights and fair representation, then you need the extremes. They shout enough to make people aware, push for something that will never happen, and we end up with a middle ground that's moved on slightly from where it was. Obviously I'm not condoning violence and terrorism as such, but I do think things like the suffragette movement helped women's rights
Feminism is cancer, NaughtyDog are cancer, journalists are cancerI do sometimes think, if you want to move things forward, push for equal rights and fair representation, then you need the extremes. They shout enough to make people aware, push for something that will never happen, and we end up with a middle ground that's moved on slightly from where it was. Obviously I'm not condoning violence and terrorism as such, but I do think things like the suffragette movement helped women's rights
Extreme groups will not only stigmatized your whole movement they will also cause less credibility, people leaving the movement etc. Extremist are never a good thing. And if you shout at everything that exists and it not female or a minority like Hillary also did you will lose. Why do you think less than 7% of people in the UK consider themselves a feminist while most of the population is for equality?what is with some users on here describing everything as cancer
I do sometimes think, if you want to move things forward, push for equal rights and fair representation, then you need the extremes. They shout enough to make people aware, push for something that will never happen, and we end up with a middle ground that's moved on slightly from where it was. Obviously I'm not condoning violence and terrorism as such, but I do think things like the suffragette movement helped women's rights
Also I think no one really said Naughty Dog is cancer.
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I think the suffragettes would be an example of extreme behaviour helping, Peter Tatchell (probably spelt that wrong) and Stonewall for gay rights. There's probably examples in american civil rights, but I'm know nothing like enough to guess at what/who. I think extremes can make others seem moderate
ok let me rephrase this a bit.
In certain situations "extremism" is a good thing. Like the all the women who are right now fighting for their rights in Iran. Women who seem there as extreme because of the society there. Women who even could pay with their lives getting arrested etc. I support these women 100%
But when we talk about for example modern Feminism we are not talking about this. When the Vogue is arguing that it is harder and even more dangerous today in this country to fight for women struggles than it was back then when women litterally died for the right to vote. Than I just can say you "FUCK YOU" I am talking about. Women who today have more privielges, have more rights in terms of laws etc then men and still argue how opressed they are then this is for me extremism in the western world. Violence is certainly extremism same with people who are are scared of a white genocide in America.
Maybe this is a bit more clear even with my bad grammar^^
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D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah that it was about Postal 2 is what made me accept their apology and that it was just a tone deaf mistake from trying to be edgy to promote an edgy game.
That said. That it was for that game isn’t an excuse as there are a ton of edgy things they could have posted that didn’t link to GG or shit on the industry they depend on to promote their store and CDPR games. Regardless of how one feels about the politics behind it, neither of those things is wise from a business standpoint.
So I’m glad they apologized and I acccepted that and moved in immediately.
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I do get it
I think what I'm saying, the people who take stuff too far now, the people me and you would both agree are out of their minds, I think we'll look back and realise we needed them to push for equal pay and better representation in higher positions. They've highlighted violence and sexual harassment against women, which makes it an issue people become more aware ofI had a lecturer back when I was studying psychology. She was a proper old school feminist, went on marches in the 60s and all that. She was cool as fuck, sharp as a knife, had lived a bit of a life lol. She hated what feminism had become as a school of psychology and sociology (like cognitive, behavioural, Jungian, Marxism, pharmacological etc), not everything was about nor could be solved by looking at things from a feminist point of view. What it did teach though was to look at things from other viewpoints, and that having someone talk about it, even if you rolled your eyes at it, meant at least it was being talked about
like, and I don't mean this by way of appeasement. The Fathers for Justice movement in the UK pulled some shit, were mocked, but they have a point about the courts and society not having equality when it comes to parenting and father's rights. It's a bigger issue than they made it sound, but they are right, when parents get divorced, the child almost always ends up with the mother. The current men's rights movement, as idiotic and nasty as it can seem, might eventually help balance some issues
TannerDemoz
Member
what is with some users on here describing everything as cancer
Welcome to GAF in 2018 - everyone is just pissed off at everything/everyone
I do get it
I had a lecturer back when I was studying psychology. She was a proper old school feminist, went on marches in the 60s and all that. She was cool as fuck, sharp as a knife, had lived a bit of a life lol. She hated what feminism had become as a school of psychology and sociology (like cognitive, behavioural, Jungian, Marxism, pharmacological etc), not everything was about nor could be solved by looking at things from a feminist point of view. What it did teach though was to look at things from other viewpoints, and that having someone talk about it, even if you rolled your eyes at it, meant at least it was being talked about
like, and I don't mean this by way of appeasement. The Fathers for Justice movement in the UK pulled some shit, were mocked, but they have a point about the courts and society not having equality when it comes to parenting and father's rights. It's a bigger issue than they made it sound, but they are right, when parents get divorced, the child almost always ends up with the mother. The current men's rights movement, as idiotic and nasty as it can seem, might eventually help balance some issues
If these are made up and totally out of context I do not think that this is helping aka Wage gap as an huge example. Women in their 20s already earn more than men do. They are in higher positions and this actually changes in their 30s because they decided a family is more important than a career. Women outclass man in education since 25 years and they still act as they are the ones needing help and being opressed. The are also quite radical with the stigmatization of men. To me they are not a symbol of equality anymore but more an outdated ideology that desperatly tries to stay alive with lies and false facts.
Also I have to note that I am always talking about modern feminism not old school one which I surely do respect. But the old ones are leaving this ship in masses already. To me modern feminsm has become a religious cult like camille paglia always says. A different perspective is always good I agree but not a one of an extremist which would on the spot accuse you of being a nazi/mra etc when you disagree with it.
False agendas and lies will not make the world a better place IMO.
PS: The Old feminism to me stands for empowerment the modern feminsm stands for a Victimhood culture
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Roni
Gold Member
To be fair, Metal Gear has a huge agenda against nuclear weapons. That doesn't count?
And Detroit's whole game is based on the juxtaposition of Android's as oppressed minorities. That's also very political.
which was critized by the same people arguing that Far Cry 5 sshould not have minorities and women as enemies.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
It's really the internet period, and especially post the 2016 election cycle. It's always been a negative, cynical place, but geez Louise has it gotten way worse.
I miss the days of just being able to bicker over our hobbies and escape from the real world and not have to deal with news and politics 24/7.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They display a full lack of consistency, and then they have the nerve to get pissy when they're criticized for it.
Roni
Gold Member
My point was addressing the notion that there aren't games with political views. There definitely are, that's all I was engaging with. I have no idea who those people crying foul about Far Cry 5 are or what they want.
They or in this case Waypoint tried to argue that Far cry 5 was a mirror of Trumps America and that the cult are basically Trump supporters/nazis and that it would be totally unrealistic when women and minorities woudl. fight on the side of these people. It was really ridiculous on multiple level
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
How do these people even function in life?
JD_Shadow
Neo Member
If it was just that, people wouldn't have reacted the way they did. They could have said that they didn't want to get into the middle of the dumpster fire.
They instead released the statement they did, basically telling people that they were wanting to add fuel TO said dumpster fire. They decided to take a side in the whole thing. That's them being "associated with it". That's what made people upset. Why did they feel the need to take a side in any of that?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This made me chuckle, because how they actually include themselves in the same sentence as women and people of color...
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Petrae
Member
L-O-Fucking-L.
Last I checked, there’s nothing in the gaming press job description to cover extraneous bullshit outside of, y’know, games.
Jason should stay in his lane. If he wants to talk about this other stuff, fine. This is why I don’t read Kotaku or any other gaming websites anymore. He’s no fucking arbiter to tell others what they should and shouldn’t cover, unless they work under his employ or supervision.
Again, it’s video games. This industry has become insufferable with all of its super-serious causes and battles and shit, and the gaming press absolutely represents the worst of this trend.
I could interpret his tweet in numerous ways:
1) He's worried about Kotaku's viability and is pitching for a future job by screaming "my work was important."
2) He hates Kotaku deep down and wants to give free press that there is a better site in the works while pretending to care about his company's narratives.
3) He's worried by the slow turning of the tide and is begging his readers to keep reading what he writes.
4) He has drank too much of the kool-aid.
5) He actually and sincerely believes that for reasons other than financial gain.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
6) He realizes the only way these sites maintian their cashflow and he remains employed, are by having the political diarrhea click bait articles regurgitated every other day with just rewording of the same old shit.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Hang on...other than laughing at this screeching idiot yet again, what’s this about a “new Escapist” avoiding “political topics”?
I don’t use Escapist, but I vaguely remember avoiding it after I didn’t like something a while back. Have they revamped their site with a new mission statement regarding politics? Or is Schreier barking at nothing?
EDIT: Ok, I Googled it. Interesting. I’ve had a feeling for a while now that the natural evolution of the current state of affairs will be video game sites popping up that explicitly state they will be politics free. I even half-heartedly contemplated attempting one myself. It’s the only logical outcome from the craziness of today.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I think it's due to the autosave draft feature.
Why? That's hilarious!
Journalism is such a corrupt, immoral profession plagued by self-reassuring hypocrites who worship a false code of "ethics" while projecting their own biased opinions in the guise of "informed reporting."
GOG should have doubled down quoting freedom of speech. The journalists would be furious (beaten at their own game).
Journalism is such a corrupt, immoral profession plagued by self-reassuring hypocrites who worship a false code of "ethics" while projecting their own biased opinions in the guise of "informed reporting."
GOG should have doubled down quoting freedom of speech. The journalists would be furious (beaten at their own game).