As a Spanish/English learner, I found German to be quite simplistic, since its verbs are mostly regular and there aren't a ton of endings to learn like in Spanish.
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Going from English, easier to learn French or German?
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Icky dust and dirt, bitches!
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
The most common words we use are Germanic. Something like the top 100 most commonly used words account for a crazy % of the words we use -- like 80% (source: my ass). But those are words like 'the" "this" "that" "but" etc. As you get in the 1000 or 2000 most commonly used words, those of French origin begin to dominate. I'm not historician, but until around ~1000 AD English very much resembled Germanic languages. We had the Angles, the Saxons, the Jutes, etc. who all spoke their own particular flavor. Migrations from Western European tribes that spoke a form of German brought the languages with them, and it is the backbone of the English language to this day. However, French, Latin, and a number of other Indo European language profoundly transformed English over the past 1000 years to the point where it words of French and Latin origin vastly outnumber the German ones.
edit after some quick googling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_English_words_by_country_or_language_of_origin
http://www.athenalearning.com/progr...commonly-used-english-words-and-their-origins
Yes. Like the word "gift" in English and German.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
I've found that simple German sentences sound almost exactly like English. I don't speak German, but on a few occasions while traveling with Germans they've spoken to me in German and I knew exactly what they said (and not only through context -- the structure and the words sounded almost exactly like English). However, it seems that at the intermediate or advanced levels of proficiency, German becomes more of an enigma. Perhaps those who've learned both languages to high levels of proficiency could comment.
Sakura
Member
According to Wikipedia of the most common 1000 words used in English, 57% are Germanic. Of the subsequent 1000 39% are Germanic. I'm not saying there aren't a lot of French words in English, but the difference is hardly enough in my mind to make French an easier language to learn.
GameAddict411
Member
What about for people who speak Arabic and English? Which language is easier to learn? German or French? very interesting thread.
Well if you're a Spanish speaker you won't have too much trouble with French I think. The greatest trouble I had was pronouncing words and understanding speech.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
Ah, so I was correct about the overall trend, but quite off in my proportions. If you are correct, Germanic origin is far more common in the first 2000 most commonly used English words, yet overall French and Latin contribute more than German to the English lexicon.
This suggests Latin and French dominate words that are semantically rich, particularly those in technical language, while words of German origin are primarily structural or "simple" words.
It makes sense. The people in the British Isles originally spoke a non-Indo European language. Then they spoke Celtic languages. Then the Germanic tribes came. Then the Normans. The commoners would continue to speak a Germanic language while the upper classes would speak a French language. Over time, English incorporated more and more French language words while retaining a core of Germanic words.
Overall, this supports my impression that German would initially be easier to learn. However, once you reached an intermediate level, French and Latin vocabulary would overwhelm words of German origin, and from what I know about German grammar, it is significantly different from English and a difficult challenge. I don't know which is more difficult for a native English speaker (although I do trust the FSI and other language institutions who have trained thousands of English speakers to speak second languages), but it is interesting to consider the similarities and differences between languages.
SecretMoblin
Member
This wasn't my experience!
Most of the Germans I met were surprised that people would want to learn German, mostly; they were also very eager to practice their English on me.
I've only really spoken with French young people (under 30), and when I try to speak French with them they either say "don't attempt speaking it to natives unless it's perfect" or "don't attempt it at all".
And yeah the continental Scandinavian languages - especially Norwegian and Swedish - along with Dutch are way way way easier than either French or German, but they probably aren't as desirable to learn. :x
I would say it's a draw. Difficulties arise at different levels, so it depends on where you stand in your study.
At basic conversation levels, German is probably a lot easier, due to the similarities in basic vocabulary.
At advanced conversation levels, French might have the edge in the long run. Once you get past all the grammar nuisances, you'll find a vast amount of similar words (often even perfectly identical matches, down to spelling) which will give you tons of instantaneous vocabulary, without even opening a dictionary or having to memorize anything.
To give some perspective, here are a few samples of easily recognizable French words, taken from this simple message.
difficulties = difficultés
different = différents
depends = dépend
basic = basique
conversation = conversation
probably = probablement
similarities = similarités
grammar = grammaire
vocabulary = vocabulaire
long = long
nuisances = nuisances
vast = vaste
similar = similaire
perfectly = parfaitement
identical = identiques
tons = tonnes
instantaneous = instantané
dictionary = dictionnaire
memorize = mémoriser
perspective = perspective
simple = simple
message = message
I'd do the same with German for the sake of comparison, but my German is alas way too rusty...
At basic conversation levels, German is probably a lot easier, due to the similarities in basic vocabulary.
At advanced conversation levels, French might have the edge in the long run. Once you get past all the grammar nuisances, you'll find a vast amount of similar words (often even perfectly identical matches, down to spelling) which will give you tons of instantaneous vocabulary, without even opening a dictionary or having to memorize anything.
To give some perspective, here are a few samples of easily recognizable French words, taken from this simple message.
difficulties = difficultés
different = différents
depends = dépend
basic = basique
conversation = conversation
probably = probablement
similarities = similarités
grammar = grammaire
vocabulary = vocabulaire
long = long
nuisances = nuisances
vast = vaste
similar = similaire
perfectly = parfaitement
identical = identiques
tons = tonnes
instantaneous = instantané
dictionary = dictionnaire
memorize = mémoriser
perspective = perspective
simple = simple
message = message
I'd do the same with German for the sake of comparison, but my German is alas way too rusty...
hobblygobbly
Member
German is not an easy language at all but you'll get the "hang of it" better from English. I can speak German, English, Danish. It's the grammar that'll catch you.
Stereogatari
Banned
Funnily enough this appears to be a worldwide phenomenon that exists across different combinations of languages.
For example in Turkish it is Arabic and Persian words that are semantically rich and dominate technical language, whereas words of Turkic and Mongolian origin are for the structural and simple words.
Persian itself has that relationship with Arabic.
Pakistani and Indian languages have a similar relationship with Arabic and Persian words, with Indian languages also having the bonus of Sanskrit as a language of vocabulary influence.
And Japanese and Korean look at Chinese vocabulary the same way.
If I had studied linguistics at university I would have loved to have made my dissertation about this phenomenon.
Spanish and French don't really sound much alike though.
There are a few similarities, but there are sounds in French that I think Spanish speakers would struggle to pronounce, since Spanish is a very simplistic language (it has only a few vowel sounds for example).
I actually wanted to create a thread about this phenomenon but in terms of different language accents in English.
For example, most Americans find French accents palatable, but everything else awful. There are some accents that make people sound really infantile, and therefore make English speakers have a patronizing sentiment towards them (like you received from French speakers). Like French, there are some that are completely fine -- yet I think the ratio would be quite skewed to the former.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
It needs to be made clear that just because an English word is of Germanic origin, it does not mean that German uses the same word as English in that case. A lot of Germanic English words have fallen out of use (or never existed) in modern German.
In short people need to stop confusing "Germanic" as meaning "German word".
In short people need to stop confusing "Germanic" as meaning "German word".
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Wait... didn't you just argue the opposite for French in relation to English???
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Ah, so I was correct about the overall trend, but quite off in my proportions. If you are correct, Germanic origin is far more common in the first 2000 most commonly used English words, yet overall French and Latin contribute more than German to the English lexicon.
Except... wouldn't a whole lot of those Latin-root words also exist in German?
Yes and they would exist even more in French.
Some words comes from Latin directly or indirectly via French words (which could be derived from Latin itself). French language itself is a mix of latin, gallic and germanic(Frank) languages.
I had to take French and German lessons at school, and I'd say German was easier. For reading and writing there wasn't much difference, but when it came to it's most useful application - actually having a conversation - I found French way harder because they all speak at the speed of light (or at least it sounds that way to me), making it way harder to discern actual words I can recognize.
Vicetrailia
Member
Egh, it depends on what level.
German will be much easier to speak than French early on...
German will be much easier to speak than French early on...
Ah, so I was correct about the overall trend, but quite off in my proportions. If you are correct, Germanic origin is far more common in the first 2000 most commonly used English words, yet overall French and Latin contribute more than German to the English lexicon.
This suggests Latin and French dominate words that are semantically rich, particularly those in technical language, while words of German origin are primarily structural or "simple" words.
It makes sense. The people in the British Isles originally spoke a non-Indo European language. Then they spoke Celtic languages. Then the Germanic tribes came. Then the Normans. The commoners would continue to speak a Germanic language while the upper classes would speak a French language. Over time, English incorporated more and more French language words while retaining a core of Germanic words.
It's worth keeping in mind that a lot of the Germanic language used in day to day English is actually from the Norse and Dane invaders. Much of our 'simple' language reflects this, rather than specifically Saxon or Angle Germanic. The Norse had a similar effect on our grammar as well. These are a couple of important factors (among others) that also contribute to the differences we see between English and German today.
Also, the Romans were knocking around these Isles a bit before the Germanics turning up in that timeline of yours, then (as per above) the Norse before the Normans.
its rather easy, i teached myself
Troubled Bat
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House = Haus = Maison
Cat = Katze = Chat
Car = Auto = Auto
Napkin = Serviette = Serviette
Hand = Hand = Main
Window = Fenster = Fenêtre
Sun = Sonne = Soleil
Rain = Regen = Pluie
Motherfucker = Mutterficker = Fils de pute
Dinosaur = Dinosaurier = Dinosaure
Pan = Pfanne = Bac
etc.
Cat = Katze = Chat
Car = Auto = Auto
Napkin = Serviette = Serviette
Hand = Hand = Main
Window = Fenster = Fenêtre
Sun = Sonne = Soleil
Rain = Regen = Pluie
Motherfucker = Mutterficker = Fils de pute
Dinosaur = Dinosaurier = Dinosaure
Pan = Pfanne = Bac
etc.
Its even worse in Holland. You wont find a non English speaker in Amsterdam (obviously) Rotterdam or most of the big cities and I've found the Dutch would rather practise their English than let you practice your Dutch.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Can't say entirely, but French is easier than just about every other language for English speakers to read
Stiflers Mom
Banned
The funny thing is with german, as a native speaker, when you try to explain stuff to foreign people learning the language.
The first time in your life, you notice how fucking crazy your language is..
The first time in your life, you notice how fucking crazy your language is..
Milestoned
Member
My grandparents are speaking Frisian at home and my parents did when I was little, I guess that has helped me a bit when learning English. On the other hand, my grandparents can't unterstand a single word in English, could be related to obstinacy though.
Arjen
Member
I know a bunch of Frisians who even strugle with Dutch sometimes, or even flatout refuse to speak it.
Pretty sure English has just as hard of a grammer like Dutch, a total clusterfuck. German and French are much more structured.
This is the second or third time I've heard someone say this, and I fundamentally disagree with it.
I think it's a misunderstanding that comes from Germans switching to English rather quickly due to a mix of attempted politeness and an eagerness to practice (or even show off) their English.
If this ever happens to you, you might just have to point it out to the person in question. I don't think most Germans take any pride in their language, and I literally have never heard any German trying to keep someone from learning German, except maybe because they question its usefulness.
Soodanim
Member
When I was at Secondary school, the first 3 years had French. The 3rd year introduced German, then we chose what to do for the last 2. I picked German. I learned more about German in that 3rd year than I did about French in the first 3 combined. But that may have been due to the German teacher being a decent bloke that was English and learned German (therefore having experienced learning what we were learning) and the French teacher being a stroppy bitch that was French.
Either way, they both have those stupid fucking genders for nouns. German even has a third, and they aren't always logical. They should drop them down to minimal usage - strictly for things that actually have genders. French should default to masculine for everything else, and German should stick to neutral.
English comes with its giant own set of nonsense, though. If you really think about it, it's a language full of nonsense. Probably because it takes so much from other languages. At school my French teacher said English is harder to learn than French, and I'm somewhat inclined to believe her. It's fine having grown up with it (although the amount of native speakers that don't understand the rules of the language and get the same old shit wrong makes me feel like an outsider), but to come in fresh and learn this shit must be frustrating at times.
Either way, they both have those stupid fucking genders for nouns. German even has a third, and they aren't always logical. They should drop them down to minimal usage - strictly for things that actually have genders. French should default to masculine for everything else, and German should stick to neutral.
English comes with its giant own set of nonsense, though. If you really think about it, it's a language full of nonsense. Probably because it takes so much from other languages. At school my French teacher said English is harder to learn than French, and I'm somewhat inclined to believe her. It's fine having grown up with it (although the amount of native speakers that don't understand the rules of the language and get the same old shit wrong makes me feel like an outsider), but to come in fresh and learn this shit must be frustrating at times.
Learn both. They're incredibly useful languages. For me, German was much easier to pronounce and had easier vocabulary, whereas French was much easier syntactically. German has the infamously tricky grammar you've heard about, but once you get the rules it's not too bad, just takes practice. French was frustrating at first because it's not as focused on phonetics as German, meaning you've got a lot of letters that show up in words that you just have to know are not to be pronounced, but again, it's something you pick up on pretty quickly. They're both gendered languages, so keep in mind that there's a lot of learning by rote regardless of which you choose.
If you already know a Latin-based language like Spanish/Italian/Portuguese, go with French first if you want an easier time. If you don't, go with German, because it actually helps you learn other languages much faster, since you become aware of all the parts that make up a language.
Then, learn Mandarin, and look back on the days you learned German and French as simpler, more civilized times.
If you already know a Latin-based language like Spanish/Italian/Portuguese, go with French first if you want an easier time. If you don't, go with German, because it actually helps you learn other languages much faster, since you become aware of all the parts that make up a language.
Then, learn Mandarin, and look back on the days you learned German and French as simpler, more civilized times.
I assume that learning German gendered articles beyond a certain age would prove fruitless. But that shouldn't discourage anyone, at worst it sounds kinda cute.
I mean, you're probably not trying to publish anything written in German. And if you did, someone else would correct it anyway.
I mean, you're probably not trying to publish anything written in German. And if you did, someone else would correct it anyway.
It's not too bad, just have to look at the article and the noun as a whole unit together, and memorize them like that. The biggest hurdle I see my students facing when I teach them German is that they tend to remember the noun, but they discard the article because they're used to thinking of articles like "the" and "a" as being context-dependent, whereas in German they are explicitly defined from the get-go. So, they'll memorize "Jacke," instead of "die Jacke," which causes all kinds of problems.
And then there are my Chinese students, who don't understand why Westerners fuck sentences up with all these useless articles in the first place.
abandon (masculine noun)
abattoir (masculine noun)
abdication (feminine noun)
abdomen (masculine noun)
abdominal (adjective)
aberrant (adjective)
aberration (feminine noun)
abject (adjective)
abolition (feminine noun)
abominable (adjective)
abomination (feminine noun)
abracadabra (exclamation)
abrasion (feminine noun)
abrogation (feminine noun)
absence (feminine noun)
absent (adjective)
absinthe (feminine noun)
absolution (feminine noun)
absorption (feminine noun)
abstention (feminine noun)
abstinence (feminine noun)
abstinent (adjective)
abstraction (feminine noun)
acacia (masculine noun)
accent (masculine noun)
accentuation (feminine noun)
accessible (adjective)
accident (masculine noun)
accolade (feminine noun)
accord (masculine noun)
accumulation (feminine noun)
accusation (feminine noun)
acolyte (masculine noun)
acquisition (feminine noun)
action (feminine noun)
acupuncture (feminine noun)
adage (masculine noun)
adaptable (adjective)
adaptation (feminine noun)
addenda (masculine noun)
addition (feminine noun)
adjacent (adjective)
adjectival (adjective)
administration (feminine noun)
admirable (adjective)
admiration (feminine noun)
admission feminine noun)
admonition (feminine noun)
adolescence (feminine noun)
adolescent (adjective)
adoption (feminine noun)
adorable (adjective)
adoration (feminine noun)
adroit (adjective)
adulation (feminine noun)
adverbial (adjective)
adverse (adjective)
affable (adjective)
affectation (feminine noun)
affection (feminine noun)
affiliation (feminine noun)
affirmation (feminine noun)
affirmative (adjective)
affliction (feminine noun)
affront (masculine noun)
aficionado (masculine noun)
agent (masculine noun)
agile (adjective)
agitation (feminine noun)
agriculture (feminine noun)
air (masculine noun)
album (masculine noun)
alias (adverb)
alliance (feminine noun)
alligator (masculine noun)
allophone (masculine noun)
allusion (feminine noun)
alpha (masculine noun)
alphabet (masculine noun)
altercation (feminine noun)
altitude (feminine noun)
alto (adjective)
amateur (masculine noun)
ambition (feminine noun)
ambivalence (feminine noun)
ambivalent (adjective)
amble (masculine noun)
ambulance (feminine noun)
amoral (adjective)
ample (adjective)
amplification (feminine noun)
amputation (feminine noun)
amusement (masculine noun)
anal (adjective)
ancestral (adjective)
anecdote (feminine noun)
angle (masculine noun)
angora (adjective + masculine noun)
animal (masculine noun)
animation (feminine noun)
annihilation (feminine noun)
annotation (feminine noun)
anthrax (masculine noun)
anticipation (feminine noun)
antidote (masculine noun)
antique (adjective)
antisocial (adjective)
apartheid (masculine noun)
aperture (feminine noun)
apocalypse (feminine noun)
apostrophe (feminine noun)
apparent (adjective)
apparition (feminine noun)
applicable (adjective)
application (feminine noun)
appropriation (feminine noun)
approximation (feminine noun)
aptitude (feminine noun)
aquarium (masculine noun)
arable (adjective)
arcade (feminine noun)
architectural (adjective)
architecture (feminine noun)
archives (feminine noun)
argument (masculine noun)
aria (feminine noun)
armistice (masculine noun)
arrogance (feminine noun)
arrogant (adjective)
arsenal (masculine noun)
arsenic (masculine noun)
art (masculine noun)
artefact (masculine noun)
article (masculine noun)
articulation (feminine noun)
artifice (masculine noun)
artisan (masculine noun)
ascension (feminine noun)
aspartame (masculine noun)
aspiration (feminine noun)
assassin (masculine noun)
assertion (feminine noun)
assimilation (feminine noun)
assistance (feminine noun)
association (feminine noun)
assurance (feminine noun)
astral (adjective)
astringent (adjective + masculine noun)
atlas (masculine noun)
atoll (masculine noun)
atonal (adjective)
attention (feminine noun)
attitude (feminine noun)
attraction (feminine noun)
attribution (feminine noun)
auburn (adjective)
audible (adjective)
audit (masculine noun)
audition (feminine noun)
augmentation (feminine noun)
aura (feminine noun)
automation (feminine noun)
automobile (feminine noun)
avalanche (feminine noun)
avarice (feminine noun)
avenue (feminine noun)
aversion (feminine noun)
aviation (feminine noun)
http://french.about.com/od/vocabulary/a/vraisamis.htm
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I was about to write a wall of text to explain how Der, Die , Das works... in the middle of it I realised that I can't explain it...it's fucking nonsense lol.
Soodanim
Member
Well that was a wonderful copy pasted list and it took up a lot of everyone's browser page, but the post you quoted actually showed that while some English words are closer to their German counterpart than their French equivalent, some are completely different and some are nearly the same.
Aha, yes, speaking both French and Norwegian, I can sometimes see how when a word has several synonyms, there will be one "simpler" word that seem to come from Norse/germanic and a "fancier" one that comes from french (it sounds fancier in english, but has regular use in french). Just off the top of my head:
Begin (begynne) - Commence (Commencer)
Face (Fjes) - Visage (visage)
etc.
But I have to say, knowing French and English, Spanish is the easiest to learn
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